"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

Discussing something on a message board is hardly "making a big deal of it."

I admittedly only read a handful of posts but calling it "a crock" and similar things seems to be making a big deal about it in my opinion. A flight attendant welcome "everyone aboard" vs "welcome aboard ladies and gentlemen" just really isn't a big deal.
 
I admittedly only read a handful of posts but calling it "a crock" and similar things seems to be making a big deal about it in my opinion. A flight attendant welcome "everyone aboard" vs "welcome aboard ladies and gentlemen" just really isn't a big deal.

I disagree. Calling something a crock on a message board is simply expressing one's opinion.

Making a big deal of it would be driving to Air Canada headquarters and asking what the heck is going on.
 
I disagree. Calling something a crock on a message board is simply expressing one's opinion.

Making a big deal of it would be driving to Air Canada headquarters and asking what the heck is going on.
or using Twitter to bully a company into complying with your demands
 

As a teacher, I feel the use of ladies and gentlemen may help them to remember to act like ladies and gentlemen - not a bad thing.

As a teacher, there are many, many ways to set expectations for behavior. Dropping one that could cause a student to feel excluded is a no-brainer. And yes, I've personally stopped saying "boys and girls" and "ladies and gentlemen " with no adverse effects.
 
People don't "choose" to not have a gender, just like people don't choose to be gay, etc.
You surprise me. I would have thought that the vast majority of people declaring that they do not have a gender were doing it for self promotion or just to be awkward.

ford family
 
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As a teacher, there are many, many ways to set expectations for behavior. Dropping one that could cause a student to feel excluded is a no-brainer. And yes, I've personally stopped saying "boys and girls" and "ladies and gentlemen " with no adverse effects.
Were there adverse effects when you used "boys and girls" or "ladies and gentlemen"?
 
Were there adverse effects when you used "boys and girls" or "ladies and gentlemen"?

If there were students struggling with their gender identity, then yes, there very well may have been, to those students. I'll happily forgo non-essential phrases in order to avoid hurting a child.

ETA, that's kind of the point of this whole thread. If you know something might hurt somebody, you stop doing it. You don't have to wait for them to tell you that they've been hurt. Once you are aware that your actions might cause harm to others, whether physical, emotional, or psychological, then the decent thing to do is simply stop doing that action if possible. Changing some basic language is certainly possible and quite easy.
 
People don't "choose" to not have a gender, just like people don't choose to be gay, etc.

Sorry, I find that comparison invalid. Yes, people don't choose to be gay, but practically everyone is born with a gender...I mean we're in an era where people are having "Gender reveal parties".
 
If there were students struggling with their gender identity, then yes, there very well may have been, to those students. I'll happily forgo non-essential phrases in order to avoid hurting a child.
But, you made the claim that after you stopped using "boys and girls" and "ladies and gentlemen" that there's been no adverse affects. But you don't know there were adverse affects before you stopped, so how you do know there aren't any after you stopped?

ETA, that's kind of the point of this whole thread. If you know something might hurt somebody, you stop doing it. You don't have to wait for them to tell you that they've been hurt. Once you are aware that your actions might cause harm to others, whether physical, emotional, or psychological, then the decent thing to do is simply stop doing that action if possible. Changing some basic language is certainly possible and quite easy.
And the point some of us have been trying to make is if you stop doing EVERYTHING that might possibly offend or hurt someone, we're going to all end up grunting at each other. Over the last month on the Dis, it's been pointed out that you can't use the OK sign, you can't say "ladies and gentlemen" or "boys and girls", and you can't say "Hello!". What's next?
 
Sorry, I find that comparison invalid. Yes, people don't choose to be gay, but practically everyone is born with a gender...I mean we're in an era where people are having "Gender reveal parties".

Sex and gender, as has been explained MULTIPLE times in this thread, are not the same thing. As for reveals, I don't think it's too difficult to comprehend that people might prefer to say they are having a "gender reveal party" and not a "sex reveal party." Of course, YMMV on that one.
 
Sex and gender, as has been explained MULTIPLE times in this thread, are not the same thing. As for reveals, I don't think it's too difficult to comprehend that people might prefer to say they are having a "gender reveal party" and not a "sex reveal party." Of course, YMMV on that one.
This just adds to the multi-layered confusion of what can or can’t be said though, doesn’t it. This entire thread is about not assuming what gender somebody is or addressing them presumptuously. When is it OK to use terms we “prefer” to use regarding another person and when is it an act of ignorance or hostility? Many have expressed what amounts to sensitivity burn-out because all the targets are constantly moving and a statement like this is one of the reasons.
 
If there were students struggling with their gender identity, then yes, there very well may have been, to those students. I'll happily forgo non-essential phrases in order to avoid hurting a child.

ETA, that's kind of the point of this whole thread. If you know something might hurt somebody, you stop doing it. You don't have to wait for them to tell you that they've been hurt. Once you are aware that your actions might cause harm to others, whether physical, emotional, or psychological, then the decent thing to do is simply stop doing that action if possible. Changing some basic language is certainly possible and quite easy.

I get what you are saying, and I agree nobody wants to hurt someone. Switching to "Hello, class" or "Good morning, students" is perfectly fine. But how are we supposed to know someone wants to be referred to "they" instead of "s/he"? I'm curious (not being snarky) do you refer to all of your students as "they" to be proactive instead potentially hurting some of them?
 
Sorry, I find that comparison invalid. Yes, people don't choose to be gay, but practically everyone is born with a gender...I mean we're in an era where people are having "Gender reveal parties".

People are going to do what they're going to do, but in my opinion, the hyperawarness of binary gender beginning before a person is even born is part of what makes navigating the gender spectrum so challenging later. When your parents are celebrating you're a girl or a boy before they even meet you? Focusing so much on gender rather than on having healthy, well-adjusted kids? Why do we see videos of parents say "oh thank goodness!" at gender reveal parties? Or cakes that split the genders into activity groups before the kid can even tell you that they like pink AND soccer? You could even say that children are not so much born with gender, gender is simply ingrained in children before they are even aware of what it is.
 
People are going to do what they're going to do, but in my opinion, the hyperawarness of binary gender beginning before a person is even born is part of what makes navigating the gender spectrum so challenging later. When your parents are celebrating you're a girl or a boy before they even meet you? Focusing so much on gender rather than on having healthy, well-adjusted kids? Why do we see videos of parents say "oh thank goodness!" at gender reveal parties? Or cakes that split the genders into activity groups before the kid can even tell you that they like pink AND soccer? You could even say that children are not so much born with gender, gender is simply ingrained in children before they are even aware of what it is.

Gender reveal parties are SO stupid. I wish that trend would just die already.
 
People are going to do what they're going to do, but in my opinion, the hyperawarness of binary gender beginning before a person is even born is part of what makes navigating the gender spectrum so challenging later. When your parents are celebrating you're a girl or a boy before they even meet you? Focusing so much on gender rather than on having healthy, well-adjusted kids? Why do we see videos of parents say "oh thank goodness!" at gender reveal parties? Or cakes that split the genders into activity groups before the kid can even tell you that they like pink AND soccer? You could even say that children are not so much born with gender, gender is simply ingrained in children before they are even aware of what it is.

If a child does not choose to be something other than their biological gender, then nothing anyone does is going to change what they are or are not. Babies are a happy occasion and parents are always thrilled to find out they are pregnant and then excited to find out whether its a boy or a girl. And whether they like pink and soccer in the future or blue and baseball or green and cats has NOTHING to do with a cake the parents have made before they were even born nor does it have anything to do with what gender the child is or is not.

Why do we see parents saying "thank goodness"? Because when you have 6 boys and you want a girl, that is your reaction. Does that mean the parents won't love her if she comes to them one day and says "I am not a girl" Of course not or it shouldn't.

Perhaps gender shouldn't be pushed on a child but neither should the confusion of thinking about their gender when they aren't questioning it or confused about it or thinking they were born the wrong gender or whatever. For the vast majority of kids, its not something they should really even think about.

As someone who worked for 16 years with children ages 0-5, nothing has to be ingrained into a child. They naturally gravitate toward much of what we view as "traditional" boy or girl tastes and likes--which is exactly why those things became thought of as traditionally for a boy or a girl. Put a group of boys in a room with several choices of items to play with and almost every one of them will go toward blocks, trucks, etc. The girls will go toward the dress up, kitchen, dolls, pretend play things. ALL of them like art and science. Take a group outside, most of the boys will play rougher than the girls. You can argue gender till you turn blue but 16 years and hundreds of kids will tell you otherwise. No one is ingraining anything in them, its just their natural way of being. That does NOT mean girls can't be rough and tough or that boys can't enjoy pretend play and quiet play. They all will do all of it throughout a day, but MOST of the time, they will naturally go toward the things that are seen as "traditionally" male or female.

What needs to stop is the adult thoughts and needs being pushed on children. Let them be children. They will get into enough confusion with puberty starts. Some parents are now trying so hard to meet all the new thoughts on these things that they are confusing these poor kids more.

I know a young lady that is so hell bent on making sure her son knows that if he is gay or trans or whatever, she will still love him and accept him that she is bordering on making him think he has to be one of those for her to love and accept him. When all he needs to know is that she loves him unconditionally. That's all any child needs--unconditional love.

Children and parents do not need the added confusion of being "oh so careful" about "pushing" a gender. That is rubbish.
 





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