Knock off purses. Why?

[Purseval]

I think what you're saying is that you don't believe the estimated loss of profits and jobs is a problem related to counterfeit issues. Is that right? Because industry, in an effort to maximize profit, cares about its bottom line rather than individual jobs and workers. And that because consumers may never have spent the money anyway on the designer goods, it can't be hurting them. I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand your argument.

That's fairly accurate. This argument is a lot more common in the software industry that claims 80 gazillion dollars per year in lost profits on the assumption that the 15-year old kid who downloaded the $3000 AutoCAD program would have went to the store and bought it if it wasn't for those pirates. In the case of the handbag manufacturers you might ask how the technology to make these knockoffs made it into third world countries in the first place. Did they just suddenly decide to make shoes instead of baskets? File it under laying down with dogs and coming up with fleas.

If this is the case, my rebuttal would be from Ledbury Research, a team operating out of London.

"The research also claims to dispel the notion that consumers almost always know they are buying fakes. The report said as many as one in eight consumers bought a fake product in the past year but almost half of them - the equivalent of more than 3m people - believed they were buying the genuine item."

I accept the above argument as plausible... not necessarily true, but plausible if you are willing to acknowledge the blind stupidity of the average consumer (I'll do that : ) Well, perhaps stupidity is a bit harsh so we'll call it suspension of belief. Consider this scenario:

LV charges $1000 for a handbag -- Fact
LV doesn't have sales -- Fact
LV doesn't have middle men, outlets, wholesale websites, etc. -- Fact

So if you see a $1000 handbag advertised on Craigslist for $100, or at a purse party for $100, or at a flea market for $100 and you buy it, you are either:

A. Incredibly naive
B. Willing to suspend belief (this guy has an inside track to the buyers, this gal is desperate for rent money, etc.)
C. A willing participant in a criminal act

Personally I choose B. The people who did the study may have other opinions, but if you were a study participant and were given those 3 choices to defend your knockoff purchase which would you choose?

Anyway, by the sounds of it there's more going on with your argument than anything to do with counterfeits. The ethics of big business is very different and much bigger kettle of fish and one I don't feel at all qualified to debate.

Then it's a good place to say that we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Millermom0606]

It's amazing where this thread has gone......

 

[ceecee]

So many people have the knock offs, I usually assume it's a knock off! I personally wouldn't never pay that much for a purse, since I get tried of them within a few months. Vera Bradleys are more my price range! Some people think they are a status type of purchase! Then they drive a bomb and rent an apt....go fiqure.
Once while shopping at an upscale mall, someone actually grabbed my shoulder bag and we had a tug of war! Luckily some people were coming so the lady ran off and I kept my purse! It was a Dooney which I think retailed at only $250. From then on I went to the mall with an over the body type bag (Vera Hipster which I really don't care for)!

 

[nunzia]

And do we know for sure that those who purchase "real" designer bags aren't supporting slave labor and child labor in other countries? I'm curious as to what it actually costs to make a designer bag, and what they actually charge for it.

Bingo on that. I'd pay more for anything made in USA if I could find it. Believe me..between all the money we are sending to China to buy junk and they are loaning back to us because of our country's poor stewardship, we all need to buff up on our Chinese..ANYWAY..we all have some valid points..everyone has little splurges or not so little splurges, and it really isn't up to us to judge anyone about them unless those people are leeches on society. I am as cheap as they come, I have a dear friend who makes well over double what we do and she is always scrambling to pay the bills, and she does love her designer stuff, but that's her choice. I could stay at Jolly Roger when at Disneyland but I loved the Grand Californian so much I bought DVC points there..my big splurge, and I'm sure alot of people shake their heads and laugh at that. I guess if you get super enjoyment carrying around a $1,200 bag then fine, but hopefully no one judges those carrying around the yard sale special. BTW..I had mentioned earlier about my friend who works for the purse people in NY. I think it's that Kathy Van Zeland person, and the purse I got was from the same group but under the label B Makowsky, and it is beautiful and supple and I haven't used it yet cause it's too pretty to stuff my junk in, but I think I'll take it on my 30th anniversary Disney cruise next year (another splurge..Carnival is MUCH cheaper, right?). And bummer of bummers, the bag is made in China...

 

[KellyNY]

Crisi and I always end up on these threads....sometimes I think she's me living in Minnesota.

Like her, we're in that "millionaire next door" club. Seven figure net worth, but if I didn't tell you, you'd never know it. My SUV is 13 years old with 143K miles on it. The other is now 7 years old with just 32K miles on it....we'll have that forever. We have no debt at all, and save 60% of our net income.

When your net income is slightly over 200K a year, it's not hard to live comfortably on 80K a year when your only "bills" are property taxes, utilities, insurance and food. There's a lot left to have fun with....trust me, especially when you're don't spend money where most Americans do....on "big" things like car payments and mortgages. Our "big purchases"/vacation budget is $20,000 a year. So we have lots of fun.

I'd never in a million years allocate $1,200 of that budget to something that I wear or carry. It would have to be given to me as a gift. We each have a watch that cost about $1,000....but in each case it was a gift for our 40th BD. And yes, my DH gave me that watch...but 40 is a milestone kind of birthday so I was cool with that.

Money represents a lot more than what you can buy. Look at what has happened to our nation in the last 2 years. Money represents security.

That is your right to live the way you want. But some may argue that $20,000 is too much for vacation budget/"big purchases"(whatever you mean for that) but will spend $5,000 for vacation, and $5,000 for lables, their right as well. To each its own. So why lough at them for buying expensive staff(I am not talking about you but Crisi). That is judgemental.

 

[Scurvy]

Maybe they just like the style?


Maybe they don't care if a snarky hag is judging them by the cost of their purse. To measure your worth by the things you carry and buy and also to judge those who do is fake and cheap.

Nice!

I judge people who carry fake bags, and I don't feel a bit bad about it. I love designer inspired purses, and I think they are a great alternative for those who like the look of expensive designer purses but can't afford (or don't choose to afford) designer prices. In fact, back when those Louis Vuitton cherry blossom bags were so popular I bought a cheap cherry blossom purse which I loved - but it didn't claim to be an LV. It was just a cheap purse with a pretty pattern (which was similar to the LV cherry blossom pattern) on it. Actual knockoffs, though, that have the "designer lables" on them? Those are incredibly tacky and sleazy. I have much more respect for someone who carries a $15 Walmart special than for someone who spends any amount of money on a fake Louis Vuitton. So if you buy counterfeit merchandise, and support the theft of intellectual property, then I'll certainly judge you for it. If that makes me a snarky hag, I can live with that. I've been called worse.

 

[wdwfan16]

Crisi and I always end up on these threads....sometimes I think she's me living in Minnesota.

Like her, we're in that "millionaire next door" club. Seven figure net worth, but if I didn't tell you, you'd never know it. My SUV is 13 years old with 143K miles on it. The other is now 7 years old with just 32K miles on it....we'll have that forever. We have no debt at all, and save 60% of our net income.

When your net income is slightly over 200K a year, it's not hard to live comfortably on 80K a year when your only "bills" are property taxes, utilities, insurance and food. There's a lot left to have fun with....trust me, especially when you're don't spend money where most Americans do....on "big" things like car payments and mortgages. Our "big purchases"/vacation budget is $20,000 a year. So we have lots of fun.

I'd never in a million years allocate $1,200 of that budget to something that I wear or carry. It would have to be given to me as a gift. We each have a watch that cost about $1,000....but in each case it was a gift for our 40th BD. And yes, my DH gave me that watch...but 40 is a milestone kind of birthday so I was cool with that.

Money represents a lot more than what you can buy. Look at what has happened to our nation in the last 2 years. Money represents security.

Does bragging about how much you make and save make you feel better.

 

[KellyNY]

Bingo on that. I'd pay more for anything made in USA if I could find it. Believe me..between all the money we are sending to China to buy junk and they are loaning back to us because of our country's poor stewardship, we all need to buff up on our Chinese..ANYWAY..we all have some valid points..everyone has little splurges or not so little splurges, and it really isn't up to us to judge anyone about them unless those people are leeches on society. I am as cheap as they come, I have a dear friend who makes well over double what we do and she is always scrambling to pay the bills, and she does love her designer stuff, but that's her choice. I could stay at Jolly Roger when at Disneyland but I loved the Grand Californian so much I bought DVC points there..my big splurge, and I'm sure alot of people shake their heads and laugh at that. I guess if you get super enjoyment carrying around a $1,200 bag then fine, but hopefully no one judges those carrying around the yard sale special. BTW..I had mentioned earlier about my friend who works for the purse people in NY. I think it's that Kathy Van Zeland person, and the purse I got was from the same group but under the label B Makowsky, and it is beautiful and supple and I haven't used it yet cause it's too pretty to stuff my junk in, but I think I'll take it on my 30th anniversary Disney cruise next year (another splurge..Carnival is MUCH cheaper, right?). And bummer of bummers, the bag is made in China...

Bruce Makowsky is Katy's husband. He started separate line of bags just couple of years ago. His bags in contrast to Katy's are all from real leather. They cost from $70 to under $300. I do not have his bags but they are pretty and well done. Good thing, they do go on sale at Macys from time to time. Just wanted to let you know what you got.

 

[heartsy77]

I hav just started diving into the designer purse world. I started with Vera, coach and now Dooney. I was almost tempted to buy a fake instead of the D&B giraffe purse I got for Xmas. But at the end of the day I just wanted the real deal.
Around here purse parties are the hot thing; and they are fakes made to look real. I see tons of people with them. I don't care if someone carries a fake bag or not. Our area, here in upstate NY, is very economically challenged to say the least. Most people here struggle to pay their bills buy let alone buy designer handbags. I try not to judge someone on the brands they are or aren't wearing.

 

[smkiya]

Crisi and I always end up on these threads....sometimes I think she's me living in Minnesota.

Like her, we're in that "millionaire next door" club. Seven figure net worth, but if I didn't tell you, you'd never know it. My SUV is 13 years old with 143K miles on it. The other is now 7 years old with just 32K miles on it....we'll have that forever. We have no debt at all, and save 60% of our net income.

When your net income is slightly over 200K a year, it's not hard to live comfortably on 80K a year when your only "bills" are property taxes, utilities, insurance and food. There's a lot left to have fun with....trust me, especially when you're don't spend money where most Americans do....on "big" things like car payments and mortgages. Our "big purchases"/vacation budget is $20,000 a year. So we have lots of fun.

I'd never in a million years allocate $1,200 of that budget to something that I wear or carry. It would have to be given to me as a gift. We each have a watch that cost about $1,000....but in each case it was a gift for our 40th BD. And yes, my DH gave me that watch...but 40 is a milestone kind of birthday so I was cool with that.

Money represents a lot more than what you can buy. Look at what has happened to our nation in the last 2 years. Money represents security.

Does bragging about how much you make and save make you feel better.

When I read her post I never got the impression that she was bragging. It seemed to me that she was using her personal situation to illustrate a point.

 

[crisi]

I respect your way of thinking and providing for your future grandkids. However I wonder what is the point of having money and not enjoying them. OK, education for future generations is a good investment, agreed, but if your kids will also save every penny for future generations and so on, who will actually enjoy money, I mean outside of education. If you happy with your car, it is ok, you do not have to show off with Ferrari(sp), if your house is nice and enough for you, ok do not invest in a castle, but what you do not buy anything you just like and do not really need? Money represent what you can buy, otherwise they just paper. JMHO.

Some people collect purses and get enjoyment out of it. I collect stocks and get enjoyment from it. I get a lot of enjoyment out of saving for my own, my children, and even my children's children's futures. I hope I die rich enough to endow my church with the ministerial salary as well as have trusts in place for my decedents educations.

I don't need people looking at me and making assumptions about how much money - or how much debt - I have. My friends don't tend to be either rich, nor aspirational, I consistently overdress for my job by shopping at Kohls.

I have everything I need, and the ability to purchase most things I want. And I don't want it badly enough to buy it. The funny thing is, I used to be poor....and when I couldn't afford it, I wanted it. When I could afford it, I went shopping for a designer purse - and couldn't find anything I liked well enough to spend the money on it and carry it for years.

 

[KellyNY]

Some people collect purses and get enjoyment out of it. I collect stocks and get enjoyment from it. I get a lot of enjoyment out of saving for my own, my children, and even my children's children's futures. I hope I die rich enough to endow my church with the ministerial salary as well as have trusts in place for my decedents educations.

I don't need people looking at me and making assumptions about how much money - or how much debt - I have. My friends don't tend to be either rich, nor aspirational, I consistently overdress for my job by shopping at Kohls.

I have everything I need, and the ability to purchase most things I want. And I don't want it badly enough to buy it. The funny thing is, I used to be poor....and when I couldn't afford it, I wanted it. When I could afford it, I went shopping for a designer purse - and couldn't find anything I liked well enough to spend the money on it and carry it for years.

That is your way. Many rich people I know do not plan on charities in a future like you do, but donate and support different organizations right now, they establish charities and run them now, not in the future. They still invest and save for kids but they also treat themselves. It is their way. So why exactly would you lough at them. People work hard for their money, they can do what they want with their money just like you, so why can't you respect it.

 

[crisi]

When I read her post I never got the impression that she was bragging. It seemed to me that she was using her personal situation to illustrate a point.

If I wanted to brag, I probably wouldn't be showing up in the "how to stretch your grocery budget" threads with recipes for bean chili.....I'd be showing up in those threads telling you all how we had a rack of lamb for dinner last night (we didn't - any idea how expensive lamb is!).

The only reason I mentioned "rich people do know Kohls" is because someone made a claim to the contrary.

And hey, if someone gets to laugh at a knockoff purse, I get to laugh at a real one. "For what do we live but to laugh at our neighbors and have them laugh at us in their turn?" We all have our follies, and if someone wants to laugh at me for having a seven figure net worth and wearing ten year old loafers with holes in them grocery shopping at Costco because the milk is cheap - go for it - sometimes I laugh at myself. I'm comfortable with the majority of the choices I make - comfortable enough to be laughed at for them.

 

[crisi]

That is your way. Many rich people I know do not plan on charities in a future like you do, but donate and support different organizations right now, they establish charities and run them now, not in the future. They still invest and save for kids but they also treat themselves. It is their way. So why exactly would you lough at them. People work hard for their money, they can do what they want with their money just like you, so why can't you respect it.

And where did I say I don't support charities now? Or that I laugh at rich people who do? I do laugh at people who carry $1500 purses - or purses that look like $1500 purses. Its a bad habit of mine, to laugh at people who use their purse to communicate how important they are. Around here, I never see a LV bag in the context where it isn't laughable.

In fact, I don't "get" LV at all. They aren't exactly Birkins (for the 'we don't care what we spend' set). More expensive than Coach or D&B and Vera Bradley (which are pretty inexpensive handbags - my mother carries a Vera Bradley bag). The vast majority of "them" are fakes - and so most people assume you are carrying a fake.

(My favorite handbag designer is Radley - but they aren't available here - I wouldn't buy one, like D&B they make cute bags that aren't at all what I want in a bag for actually using it).

 

[KellyNY]

If I wanted to brag, I probably wouldn't be showing up in the "how to stretch your grocery budget" threads with recipes for bean chili.....I'd be showing up in those threads telling you all how we had a rack of lamb for dinner last night (we didn't - any idea how expensive lamb is!).

The only reason I mentioned "rich people do know Kohls" is because someone made a claim to the contrary.

And hey, if someone gets to laugh at a knockoff purse, I get to laugh at a real one. "For what do we live but to laugh at our neighbors and have them laugh at us in their turn?" We all have our follies, and if someone wants to laugh at me for having a seven figure net worth and wearing ten year old loafers with holes in them grocery shopping at Costco because the milk is cheap - go for it - sometimes I laugh at myself. I'm comfortable with the majority of the choices I make - comfortable enough to be laughed at for them.

So it is their choises to spend money the way they want. Nobody was loughing at you for your choises. That is judgemental.

 

[Ember]

Crisi, I think your end of life goals sound wonderful. It's great that you have enough money to live comfortably and that you want to help future generations with your money.

Here's my example: I may or may not end my life with millions. Right now I'm in the position of paying off the last of my and DH's school debt and a trip to Disneyland and Hollywood that I took my dying mother on - I couldn't afford it in the slightest and went on credit. It was her dream trip. I own my little car and have no other debts.

I have always been financially responsible, though far from wealthy! I put myself through two degrees working 2 or 3 jobs at a time in addition to full time classes to come out with as little debt as possible. Now I'm working part time in order to better care from my mum who I moved in with when she got her cancer diagnosis last June. Between DH and I we're managing and able to put about $2k a month to the debts - we'll be debt free in a few months!

So why did I "waste" money on an $800 bag?? Well, to be fair, it was on sale for $600... Each week I take $5 for myself, in cash, and put it in a jar. Along with some odd change and birthday and Christmas gifts it adds up. When I have a few hundred dollars I buy myself something I wouldn't otherwise consider. I have a beautiful pair of red bottomed heels and I carry a gorgeous purse. I buy something beautiful maybe once every two or three years. It's something just for me. DH has adopted a similar "splurge" savings.

As I said, we're on the right track, but may never have millions to leave behind. But that doesn't mean we won't make a difference. After my mum passes, we're going to South Africa. DH will complete his post doctoral studies and I'll be volunteering with a government organization as a professional volunteer. I'll be training other people as teachers to bring education to some of the regions and villages that otherwise would never have access to a teacher. Will I be paid a lot for those two years of work? Nope! But in way many people will never experience, I'll be making a difference.

People may want to judge me by my handbag, and for the most part I don't care, but I hope you can agree from my brief summary of my life and they would be quite wrong. It just goes to show that judgment in either direction is rather pointless.

P.S. Next big purchase, probably in the fall, is jeans! For $200. Maybe I should go to the other thread to defend myself...

 

[KellyNY]

And where did I say I don't support charities now? Or that I laugh at rich people who do? I do laugh at people who carry $1500 purses - or purses that look like $1500 purses. Its a bad habit of mine, to laugh at people who use their purse to communicate how important they are. Around here, I never see a LV bag in the context where it isn't laughable.

In fact, I don't "get" LV at all. They aren't exactly Birkins (for the 'we don't care what we spend' set). More expensive than Coach or D&B and Vera Bradley (which are pretty inexpensive handbags - my mother carries a Vera Bradley bag). The vast majority of "them" are fakes - and so most people assume you are carrying a fake.

(My favorite handbag designer is Radley - but they aren't available here - I wouldn't buy one, like D&B they make cute bags that aren't at all what I want in a bag for actually using it).

You never mentioned any charities you support now, all your projects stated in a future as per your posts. If you do, good for you, but you never stated that. I did not say you laugh at people who support charities, I said you laugh at those who besides charities and all saving/investment projects spend on expensive staff. Maybe where you live people do not wear them, I do not know, but here in NY where I live, it is pretty common. Sure some are replicas, and trust me you will never know difference, but many carry real things. Many wear inspired bags but you will never mistake them with real thing. Here, we are very openminded about what anyone wears or carry. It is common to see a person in BMW, wearing 99c flip flops and the other way around. People wear what they like, the key is nobody is judging.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

(My favorite handbag designer is Radley - but they aren't available here - I wouldn't buy one, like D&B they make cute bags that aren't at all what I want in a bag for actually using it).

RADLEY! I just love that little scottie and his adventures. No one in the US ever seems to know or care who made it, but I get comments on the cute scene on the bag all the time. Thankfully they are not popular enough to knock off!

 

[KandD]

OK I know I am late but I wanted to comment...

I only buy Coach purses (real) so I don't think I can tell if other designer bags are fake or not but I can tell with Coach. I don't buy fake although I don't care if other people do, I have seen some really nice fake bags but MY question is why do people buy fake when they are still expensive??!!

Purse parties are pretty popular around my area and I have been to two (haven't bought anything) but the knockoffs were between 40 and 60 dollars! (And I don't even think I looked at the prices for the large purses so they could have been even more) I have seen small Coach purses at the outlets for as low as $60 (and sometimes they have 20% off coupons so it would be even cheaper) and I have bought large Coach purses for as low as about $110 or $120.

Maybe it is just my area but I don't think that knockoffs are that cheap! I know some of my friends got Coach wallets from a purse party for 10 or 15 dollars. That is reasonable and I can understand buying that (and I know I will get flamed but I personally still wouldn't buy them because I could tell they were fake right away and the stitching was terrible).

And as a PP said at the beginning of the thread, I know some people who go to New York and buy purses out of the back of a van and INSIST that they are real. Whatever makes you happy I guess BUT that is ILLEGAL!!!

 

[KellyNY]

OK I know I am late but I wanted to comment...

I only buy Coach purses (real) so I don't think I can tell if other designer bags are fake or not but I can tell with Coach. I don't buy fake although I don't care if other people do, I have seen some really nice fake bags but MY question is why do people buy fake when they are still expensive??!!

Purse parties are pretty popular around my area and I have been to two (haven't bought anything) but the knockoffs were between 40 and 60 dollars! (And I don't even think I looked at the prices for the large purses so they could have been even more) I have seen small Coach purses at the outlets for as low as $60 (and sometimes they have 20% off coupons so it would be even cheaper) and I have bought large Coach purses for as low as about $110 or $120.

Maybe it is just my area but I don't think that knockoffs are that cheap! I know some of my friends got Coach wallets from a purse party for 10 or 15 dollars. That is reasonable and I can understand buying that (and I know I will get flamed but I personally still wouldn't buy them because I could tell they were fake right away and the stitching was terrible).

And as a PP said at the beginning of the thread, I know some people who go to New York and buy purses out of the back of a van and INSIST that they are real. Whatever makes you happy I guess BUT that is ILLEGAL!!!

It is true only for relatively cheap brands like Coach or Juicy. I never shopped on Canal Street and I never bought online, well I never bought a single replica at all, but I explored couple of replica sites, they are all over internet. What I noticed is price is same for every brand, $200 on that side witch is pretty crazy for a fake. You can buy a real Coach for same money at some outlets. I guess people just do not know.