Kitchen Remodel - Tell Me Everything

[DVCLiz]

I want to upgrade my kitchen in the next couple of years. I have dark cherry cabinets which are in fine shape but I would really like to put white ones in. I'd also like granite countertops, an island, a new hardwood floor (currently linoleum), a new sink and faucet, and some new lighting.

The layout of my kitchen is fine - the prior owners did a great upgrade so I have an appliance garage, a small cabinet for cookie sheets, a pull out for garbage cans, a pantry, etc. I don't need any demoliton or rebuilding other than to take out what is there - no new plumbing or lighting, etc.

My appliances are fine - all are new or in good conditon and I recently updated my double ovens and cooktop. If and when I need a new refrigerator, dishwasher or microwave I will probably upgrade to stainless steel but I'm not planning on replacing any of those until they die. The older appliances are still less than ten years old.

How much time/money am I looking at to essentially take out the appliances, remove the cabinets and flooring, install new cabinets, new sink and countertops, new lighting and a hardwood floor, and reinstall the appliances?

I'm just looking for advice - especially about kitchen cabinets. How to choose? What to look for? What's the difference that makes the more expensive choice worth it?

 

[Micca]

Don't really have much experience with this, but my understanding that the time is takes is roughly 2-3 times longer than they tell you it will take.

 

[tlbwriter]

Sounds like you're still talking about a major remodel - removing and replacing the cabinets is going to be a biggie. If you want white, could you just have your cherry cabinets painted?

 

[DVCLiz]

Sounds like you're still talking about a major remodel - removing and replacing the cabinets is going to be a biggie. If you want white, could you just have your cherry cabinets painted?

I don't know - wouldn't it just be an issue of getting them chipped and looking terrible after a while?

 

[DawnCt1]

I can't comment on what you will pay in North Carolina, because I think some things are just "regional". What I did learn, and I am grateful that I hada sense of it, and it was confirmed, is that 'EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE". That includes labor as well as material, such as granite, sinks, faucets, etc. I did much better price wise at a plumbing supply shop than I would have done at Home Depot, and if I found it on line and they wouldn't at least match it, I bought it on line.
For example, Consumer Reports rated Waste King Legend 8000 as the best garbage disposal. Best Buy carried it for $239. I bought it from Amazon, free shipping from the manufacturer, no tax, for $104. Same with one of my vanities in one of the bathrooms; I find the exact same thing on line, free shipping, from Amazon, less than my best negotiated price.

Granite. Shop at several businesses. The prices are all over the place. When you get an offer that sounds great, ask if he can do it for less. Ask if he will upgrade the edge. I picked out a piece of granite last week that I really wanted but it wasn't a remnant so therefore the fabricator "could not give it to me for $250 but wanted $365 or so. I offered him $300 cash. Just as an example of the price range, I stopped at another granite place that was across the street from a well known expensive kitchen designer, and they wanted between $600 and $800 for essentially the same thing and from a remnant. I didn't even bother to negotiate. I walked out.

The cabinets are extremely important to shop for. Figure out what brand you want,get a couple of prices and then go back to the lowest one and ask him if he can do better. I had shown my plan to the kitchen designer at Home Depot. He said, "I can beat any price except from "X Kitchens". He doesn't care if he only makes $5 on a kitchen. He will undersell us every time". That was a great tip. I got the price and went to X Kitchens. He not only beat the price but was willing to include the hardware, knobs and handles.
Wine Cellar. I bought a Marvel wine cellar that was marked down because it was "last year's model", which looked like this years model. It was marked $1000. I asked for more off. I got it delivered for $935. Not huge savings, but it all adds up. Same with my kitchen set. I wanted Saloom furniture and shopped for it saving $525 from the highest quote.

 

[Not My Fault!]

There isn't enough time in the day to tell you everything, so I'll tell the 2 big things that matter most:

1. It will take 2 to 3 times longer than you plan.
2. It will cost 2 to 3 times more than you plan.

 

[DVCLiz]

Thanks for the cost and time estimates, everyone. I know it will be more expensive and take longer - I have been down the remodeling road several times before. I always plan on at least double the time and a third more the cost - my contractor is a pretty good estimator so I have mnore confidence in his pricing than I do his time scheduling. Although in his defense the time issues in the past have been weather-related and the work was outside.

Anyway, back to kitchen cabinets - what are some brands to look at? What's the major difference? How can I tell the difference other than cost - what's better about the more expensive ones?

 

[DawnCt1]

There isn't enough time in the day to tell you everything, so I'll tell the 2 big things that matter most:

1. It will take 2 to 3 times longer than you plan.
2. It will cost 2 to 3 times more than you plan.

Ours took about two weeks longer than I anticipated but, we stayed pretty much on budget, except for perhaps another $350 to upgrade to travertine for the back splash, and include an extra bathroom in the remodel. I would say we were $3300 over budget with labor because I had a new sub panel added to the electric system in the basement, the extra bath, the ceiling detail and tile ripped up in the laundry room, mudroom, and bath off of the kitchen and replaced. That was less than 10%.

 

[DawnCt1]

Thanks for the cost and time estimates, everyone. I know it will be more expensive and take longer - I have been down the remodeling road several times before. I always plan on at least double the time and a third more the cost - my contractor is a pretty good estimator so I have mnore confidence in his pricing than I do his time scheduling. Although in his defense the time issues in the past have been weather-related and the work was outside.

Anyway, back to kitchen cabinets - what are some brands to look at? What's the major difference? How can I tell the difference other than cost - what's better about the more expensive ones?

I decided on Kraftmaid. I thought that they were well made, maple and I liked the soft close drawers that were included in the price. A couple of the doors came in, "imperfect" but they replaced them immediately. Our carpenters felt that of all the cabinets they worked with, these were the easiest to install with the exception of the cabinet for the double wall oven and warming drawer. They had to rebuild that. It came out very nice but an easier approach would have been two panels and an upper cabinet. That was the kitchen designer's fault however. Be sure to have your carpenters involved during the ordering process so they can ask questions and point out potential problems.That was one we missed.

 

[DVCLiz]

Kraftmaid is the brand I keep coming back to as well - I've always heard good things about them. What's the best/cheapest way to buy them? I would be replacing what is already there so no changes in size, etc.

 

[golfgal]

A friend did a total remodel-down to the studs-and had their electrician wire an outlet in their garage for their stove so they could still cook meals at home. They had a laundry tub to wash dishes, etc. and they set up the microwave in the garage as well. She said that was the best thing they did during their remodel because it saved them a LOT of money by not eating out every day. They had little kids at the time so that was part of it as well. She kept her old stove in the garage for a while and used it as a second stove for when she did a lot of cooking (holidays, backing cookies, etc.).

 

[Gigi22]

You could also consider having just the cabinet and drawer fronts replaced--not sure what is involved, but I have seen it advertised as a less expensive option than replacing the entire cabinets, especially if you are sticking with the same floorplan. I haven't seen hardwood flooring in a kitchen, so I can't comment on it.

 

[bettymae1121]

I'd take a hard look at just refinishing the cabinets if you aren't changing the floor plan. It's a lot of work but it can easily save you thousands. It's usually something a homeowner can do themselves so all it will cost you is for materials. Just strip the finish off the cabinents, sand, and paint. Just Google it and I'm sure you'll get a lot of websites with instructions.

 

[DVCLiz]

You could also consider having just the cabinet and drawer fronts replaced--not sure what is involved, but I have seen it advertised as a less expensive option than replacing the entire cabinets, especially if you are sticking with the same floorplan. I haven't seen hardwood flooring in a kitchen, so I can't comment on it.

I'd take a hard look at just refinishing the cabinets if you aren't changing the floor plan. It's a lot of work but it can easily save you thousands. It's usually something a homeowner can do themselves so all it will cost you is for materials. Just strip the finish off the cabinents, sand, and paint. Just Google it and I'm sure you'll get a lot of websites with instructions.

I'd never do this myself - I am not in the least "handy" and it would take forever for me to get even one done. Plus, I'm concerned about the "homemade" look of a repainted cabinet that's not been done at the factory. Has anyone done this and can you tell me about your experience?

 

[LJRJR]

I did my kitchen over about a year ago. We totally gutted it and expanded the kitchen into an ajoining room. We used Kraftmaid cabinets. My cabinets are a dark honey color with a chocolate glaze on them. I didnt go with granite, but I chose quartz instead which I really love. My backsplash is tumbled stone, any whatever wall space that is left over is painted red.

With the cabinets, it all about how they are made. You can get a cabinet where the body is made out of particle board and the doors are "real wood", or you can get cabinets where they are made out of all wood. I am very happy with Kraftmaid and I love the gently closing feature. I have pull outs on all of my cabinet bases and shelves. I also have the 42" upper cabinets with a six inch crown moulding on the top of that.

I also have a hardwood (red oak) floor in my kitchen. I love it and it is easy to keep clean.

 

[blanq]

Thanks for the cost and time estimates, everyone. I know it will be more expensive and take longer - I have been down the remodeling road several times before. I always plan on at least double the time and a third more the cost - my contractor is a pretty good estimator so I have mnore confidence in his pricing than I do his time scheduling. Although in his defense the time issues in the past have been weather-related and the work was outside.

Anyway, back to kitchen cabinets - what are some brands to look at? What's the major difference? How can I tell the difference other than cost - what's better about the more expensive ones?

I went through a major renovation a couple of years ago that included a kitchen/laundry gut (they are adjacent in my home), and one recommendation I have is that you consider custom cabinets. People have misconceptions about custom cabinets, and one of those misconceptions is that they are cost prohibitive...that is just not true! We have maple cabinets (painted white) with inset cabinet doors, self-closing drawers, lots of pull-outs, cabinets to the ceiling with transom cabinets on top and furniture detailing, and we got them for a reasonable price compared to semi-custom or no custom cabinets. Here are some photos of my kitchen/laundry room, post remodel (from my designer's web site). OP, since you are thinking about white, I thought you might want to see these:

Kitchen: http://spiredesigngroup.com/project14.html
Laundry: http://spiredesigngroup.com/project18.html

The cost for my renovation (which included other rooms besides laundry/kitchen) was close to budget but took several months longer than anticipated. Our project required we move out, so we incurred additional expenses in rent. We had some significant change orders which complicated and lenthened our project. Some were cosmetic, but we have a 1903 home and ran into structural problems which added another 4K to our project.

I would recommend you spend a significant amount of time researching what you want. Know what your design style is and what materials you want, as well as layout and function of your kitchen. It will save you a lot of time in the long run and you will get a kitchen you truly love. PM me if you have any questions.

 

[DVCLiz]

Thanks - those are lovely!!

I have lived in this house 8 years and there is really nothing I want to change in the layout of the kitchen except to have a smaller island - the one I have now has a lower level for seating and I want a smaller footprint in the middle of the room with an overhang and barstools.

I do want to move my hot water heater under the house and regain the space from the closet that currently houses it. I woull use that space for china storage and off-season cooking utensils, etc. Still, not a major construction job. As a matter of fact, I might go ahead and do that anyway this fall/winter.

 

[ColoradoMom!!]

We had researched everything, and were just a week or two away from ordereing our cabinets when my Mom fell, and life changed!

BUT - we are about ready to start again. The BEST forum - and everyone posts pictures is :

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitchbath/

They also have a gallery of finished kitchens that is incredible. Ohhh just saw this one : http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0922253829843.html?72

You've already gotten the great advice - one interesting thing I didn't know was that there is an upcharge on painted white cab's over stained - that surprised me. On that web site above, there are some kitchen remodels that kept their cherry cab's, but added granite, etc. and they look amazing.

Also - we had Home Depot do a design, and Lowe's. The Lowe's gal caught things the HD guy never thought of. We researched all wood vs. particle board to the hilt. Unless you get the cheapest cab's out there, don't let a little particle board scare you - just make sure it is thick enough. I think Kraftmaid uses all wood doors, but some particle in the box, correct?

 

[DawnCt1]

Kraftmaid is the brand I keep coming back to as well - I've always heard good things about them. What's the best/cheapest way to buy them? I would be replacing what is already there so no changes in size, etc.

Shop at whatever vendor has them. Go to Home Depot, take your quote and go to a small business and see if they can beat them. That is what I did.

 

[Poohs Pal]

When doing a remodel make sure to call habiat for Humanity. They will come out and remove your old counter tops and cabinets for free plus give you a receipt for you tax's. Save's a bundle off your remodel. Susan