kids starting band...

[monsterkitty]

No piano requirement here, either. They start in 5th gr here. At the end of 4th gr, the band director goes around the the rooms and lets the kids try out with the different instruments. The next week he comes back & tells them if they made it into band or not. Unfortunately my dd is one that did not get into band. She was quite upset because she was really looking forward to joining band.

Are you kidding me? Now why would a band director make a child, who has never played a band instrument before, try out? This is why I don't hang out with a lot of band directors.

I don't care if you can play well or not. If you want to be in band and you want to learn an instrument sign up! Who cares if you aren't going to be great because not everyone in going to be a professional musician. Have fun and learn as much as you can. Learn to love music, not hate it because a band director had you try an instrument for two seconds and determine you couldn't make it.

Can you tell this attitude makes me cranky?

 

[disykat]

I'm guessing that band is for 5th and 6th graders, but are making exceptions for 4th graders. If this isn't a new policy, I'm sure people have been complaining for years now. I don't see a problem with it (and my kids don't take piano lessons).

This is the only thing that makes sense. It would make sense to let younger kids with prior musical experience in while keeping the general age higher so that they have 4th grade music class prior to joining. That doesn't sound like the case here, which makes me wonder if this is a new band director - who will hopefully quickly find out he/she is KILLING the band program!

Where I live/teach, kids learn how to read music in general music class. Fourth grade is generally the year a lot of the kids start to really get it -the recorder plays a prominent role in 4th grade music class so they gets lots of practice reading notes and rhythms.

 

[PaulaSue]

Strange...here you start a instr. in 4th and band in 5th. Band in 5th is just 2 concerts for parents. Waiting to see what Band in 6th is....

PS, they do recorder in 3rd and 4th grade in music class, no choice.

 

[golfgal]

Are you kidding me? Now why would a band director make a child, who has never played a band instrument before, try out? This is why I don't hang out with a lot of band directors.

I don't care if you can play well or not. If you want to be in band and you want to learn an instrument sign up! Who cares if you aren't going to be great because not everyone in going to be a professional musician. Have fun and learn as much as you can. Learn to love music, not hate it because a band director had you try an instrument for two seconds and determine you couldn't make it.

Can you tell this attitude makes me cranky?

Actually trying instruments before you sign up for one is quite common. Mouth structure will play a big part of being able to actually play an instrument or not. If a child just picks any instrument off the shelf they may struggle to the point of not wanting to continue. Band directors know this so they have the kids try them. When our kids were selecting their instruments they tried different ones and if they could produce a sound they could put it on their list, if not, it didn't go on the list.

 

[clori]

Here all kids play recorder in third and fourth grade music class. Lessons on band instruments start in 4th grade but after going to a music info night kids just pick the instrument they want and parents want to buy/rent or whatever. No prior experience is needed. Group lessons are twice a week and free if you already have an instrument. Band is once a week from 6-8pm for all 5 schools and costs extra. I guess they do a spring concert, march in 3 parades, and have a end of the year field trip to Canobie Lake Park. I think it might be one band for 4&5 and another for 6-8.

The school is k-8. Kids in 6-8 grade play guitar as part of regular music class. School supplies the guitars but I don't think kids get to bring them home. Parents pay $2.50 or so for the recorder so kids not only get to bring them home, parents have the honor of listening to them play recorder almost every single night from my lovely experience.

 

[zoemurr]

Actually trying instruments before you sign up for one is quite common. Mouth structure will play a big part of being able to actually play an instrument or not. If a child just picks any instrument off the shelf they may struggle to the point of not wanting to continue. Band directors know this so they have the kids try them. When our kids were selecting their instruments they tried different ones and if they could produce a sound they could put it on their list, if not, it didn't go on the list.

Wow.. guess we're very lucky. We start strings in 1st, and band (or harp) in 4th. Everyone can join but they do need to be able to make some sound on the instrument for the teacher to recommend it. (My DD picked the bass clarinet which she enjoys but can barely carry.. about a year into it she admitted that they never showed her the whole instrument when she chose it.. just the mouthpiece.)

They didn't tell you last year that kids would need the piano so they could be ready?

 

[KiminChicago]

No piano requirement here, either. They start in 5th gr here. At the end of 4th gr, the band director goes around the the rooms and lets the kids try out with the different instruments. The next week he comes back & tells them if they made it into band or not. Unfortunately my dd is one that did not get into band. She was quite upset because she was really looking forward to joining band.

Really? That's terrible! Our school district starts band and orchestra in 5th grade with no requirements. They do have a day where they bring in all the instruments and let the kids try them all out. DD wanted flute, but found out that she wasn't able to produce a single note. So she picked violin as her second choice. No one is turned away, and no one is asked to switch to a different instrument just to balance the numbers. DD's 5th grade orchestra had 12 violins, a couple of violas and a couple of cellos. It was the same with the band when my DS started three years ago -- the only issue we had was that DS had started private lessons on the clarinet in 4th grade and wanted to start sax in 5th grade, but that isn't allowed.

Last year at the middle school they had their largest 6th grade band ever -- almost 120 students from the half dozen schools that feed into the middle school. I can't believe any school would turn away students who are interested in music -- it helps them academically in so many ways!

 

[Tam1067]

I'm suprised about this. Both my boys (ages 13 and 11) are in band, and neither played piano. Our school band needs more kids, so they'll take anybody who's willing, and they don't discourage by requiring prior knowledge.

 

[monsterkitty]

Actually trying instruments before you sign up for one is quite common. Mouth structure will play a big part of being able to actually play an instrument or not. If a child just picks any instrument off the shelf they may struggle to the point of not wanting to continue. Band directors know this so they have the kids try them. When our kids were selecting their instruments they tried different ones and if they could produce a sound they could put it on their list, if not, it didn't go on the list.

Yes, I know this. I have only taught band for 21 years now. My point is that there is an instrument for everyone to play. It may not be the child's first choice, or heck even their third choice, but there is an instrument for that child to play.

 

[mrsv98]

In our district, 4th graders can play a string instrument and join orchestra. Then in 5th grade they can switch and take up a band instrument and join the district "band". DD started on the viola last school year and will stick with it, she has been taking lessons over the summer.

Initially, she came home saying she wanted to play the trumpet....ummm, no!

 

[Ilivetogo]

Both of my boys started a band instrument in 4th grade. Neither of them had piano lessons prior. Not a requirement here.

Ditto. My DD and my DS both started in 4th grade - no piano required. I think it's an odd "requirement".

.

 

[Hannathy]

Here you can start strings in 4th grade but you can't start band instruments until 6th and if you want percussion you have to have at least a year of piano.

My DS was very interested though and asked to start sooner so he started group lessons thru a local university in 3rd grade (couldn't possibly afford private lessons)

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm suprised about this. Both my boys (ages 13 and 11) are in band, and neither played piano. Our school band needs more kids, so they'll take anybody who's willing, and they don't discourage by requiring prior knowledge.

I'm just guessing, but if they are requiring piano for 4th graders, they probably don't have enough with just 5th and 6th graders, but don't need that many 4th graders. Our school doesn't allow any 4th graders to participate in band. Maybe the school needs only a handful more, so they require the piano experience? It seems like most schools offer band to 5th and 6th graders (our 4th graders get a violin option).

Once the kids get to middle school, band is awesome - our district's music program is in the top 100 in the country.

 

[NewCrew42]

Band starts in 6th grade at our school. The only "instruments" that required prior experience happen to be percussion. You were required to have 1 year of private lessons to try out for percussion.

 

[mykidsand_i]

This 'rule' of having 1 year of piano before starting band has been set in place here for the past 3 years. My family has a love for all things musical, we've always had a piano, we've always listened to different types of music and all of us have been in choir in church and things like that.

The thing that makes me wonder about this 'rule' is that it really stinks, because not all people have access to a piano, nor does everyone have the money to pay for lessons.

There are 5 other moms and I that are starting a petition. One was 'rumored' to start last year, but I never saw it, nor did anyone else I spoke to. This is not a private school, and band for 4th graders- is just for 4th graders. They aren't mixed until they reach 6th grade.

In my opinion, kids IN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT (I don't know about others), but in OURS- ALL of our elementary schools have music class 2 days a week...I believe that is enough to start band. ALL kids MUST take music- it includes learning about notes, rythms, a few misc. instruments- and YES, every kid gets to learn the recorder in 3rd grade. I believe that should be enough.

Also, in my opinion, I believe that the START of band at a young age is a great thing- but I think that the first MONTH of start of band should ALWAYS start with the TEACHING of these things (rythm, beat, notes)...

This is not a new teacher. In fact, this man has been around at this school for 6 years and before our 4th and 5th grade school, he was at another school with middle school kids who didn't start band until 6th grade.

I don't know WHY this rule was set in place (3 years AFTER he started here none the less), but I think that him requesting this is him being LAZY.

Our PTA has discussed this issue and there are quite a few parents who are upset about it currently. I believe this petition (we have to have a certain number of parents sign it before we can present it to the school board) will help.

This 2010/2011 school year has only 19 kids signed up for band. The 'target number' of a good band is AT LEAST 30 for this age (at least that's what the band director stated)...and I think that he's hurting the band program by setting this rule. 4 years ago, there were over 40 kids in 4th grade band. They had a great band concert with the 4th and 5th grade band once every spring. This year, there aren't enough kids to consider the spring concert and who knows about next year if this rule isn't changed.

I don't want the band director to be upset with me, nor do the other parents who will head up and sign this petition, but he needs to know that this rule should be changed.

 

[golfgal]

This 'rule' of having 1 year of piano before starting band has been set in place here for the past 3 years. My family has a love for all things musical, we've always had a piano, we've always listened to different types of music and all of us have been in choir in church and things like that.

The thing that makes me wonder about this 'rule' is that it really stinks, because not all people have access to a piano, nor does everyone have the money to pay for lessons.

There are 5 other moms and I that are starting a petition. One was 'rumored' to start last year, but I never saw it, nor did anyone else I spoke to. This is not a private school, and band for 4th graders- is just for 4th graders. They aren't mixed until they reach 6th grade.

In my opinion, kids IN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT (I don't know about others), but in OURS- ALL of our elementary schools have music class 2 days a week...I believe that is enough to start band. ALL kids MUST take music- it includes learning about notes, rythms, a few misc. instruments- and YES, every kid gets to learn the recorder in 3rd grade. I believe that should be enough.

Also, in my opinion, I believe that the START of band at a young age is a great thing- but I think that the first MONTH of start of band should ALWAYS start with the TEACHING of these things (rythm, beat, notes)...

This is not a new teacher. In fact, this man has been around at this school for 6 years and before our 4th and 5th grade school, he was at another school with middle school kids who didn't start band until 6th grade.

I don't know WHY this rule was set in place (3 years AFTER he started here none the less), but I think that him requesting this is him being LAZY.

Our PTA has discussed this issue and there are quite a few parents who are upset about it currently. I believe this petition (we have to have a certain number of parents sign it before we can present it to the school board) will help.

This 2010/2011 school year has only 19 kids signed up for band. The 'target number' of a good band is AT LEAST 30 for this age (at least that's what the band director stated)...and I think that he's hurting the band program by setting this rule. 4 years ago, there were over 40 kids in 4th grade band. They had a great band concert with the 4th and 5th grade band once every spring. This year, there aren't enough kids to consider the spring concert and who knows about next year if this rule isn't changed.

I don't want the band director to be upset with me, nor do the other parents who will head up and sign this petition, but he needs to know that this rule should be changed.

I agree-bad rule. Maybe this band director should give piano lessons to everyone in 3rd grade then?? I can understand wanting kids to have some concept of music but like I think pretty much everyone else, the kids learn recorder the year before band and if the school has a music program before band the kids should be just fine to start band because every other school in the world seems to manage just fine this way . I totally understand needing piano for percussion because their music isn't the same but after that, it isn't necessary.

 

[MinnieFlute]

I don't post much, but as a band director, when I see things about band directors being STUPID, boy does it make me mad!

I can completely understand piano as a prerequisite for percussion. Keyboard instruments are the same as piano, just with mallets. My school doesn't require that, but it helps. Kids with piano experience are sometimes also put on oboe, bassoon or french horn because those instruments are somewhat specialized and require a good ear - which will tend to be more developed if the kid has experience.

But to be IN band? NO. FREAKING. WAY. What about this mysterious concept of **teaching** the kids how to read music? I suppose that's what that requirement is there for, so that the band director doesn't have to do that. I suppose this band director also requires that they figure out fingerings, embouchure, breathing, etc. somewhere other than in the band hall. UGH.

And to the PP whose DD didn't "make" band - even MORE shame on that band director! The band interviews are to place a kid on their best fit instrument based on the needs of the kids and of the program. Kids wind up mad at us all the time because they wanted to play saxophone and could make an OK sound on the sax mouthpiece, but we don't need 30 beginner saxes - we need 8. But we don't tell them they can't be in band! There is an instrument that will work for everyone who wants to play one. I hate to see kids get left out like that.

 

[elbigvato]

I have to agree with the other directors in this thread - I use piano lessons only in determining percussion students. To make it a requirement of all the kids is just dumb, especially for a public school.

 

[marcyinPA]

I have to agree with the other directors in this thread - I use piano lessons only in determining percussion students. To make it a requirement of all the kids is just dumb, especially for a public school.

My DS11 started percussion in 4th grade and never had a piano lesson. The instrumental teacher at our elementary school only allows three fourth graders to take percussion every year. How she chooses is beyond me (although we have a very small, city school...not a lot of kids take instrumental lessons anyway). That first year, she teaches them, but if she sees that they don't have what it takes, she suggests another instrument. You can tell pretty quickly the ones who have natural ability and the ones who struggle. Percussion is very difficult (she often equates it to walking, chewing gum, rubbing your head and stomach at the same time...not an easy task!)

Once they get to middle school, where there is a marching band and concert band, it's survival of the fittest. Percussion is the one section where not everyone makes the cut. Of 20-something kids who auditioned for percussion this year, only 11 made the middle school band. Thankfully, my DS11 made it! (he also has been taking private lessons for two years).

High school band is even worse! Only TWO freshman "drummers" made the band this year! The ones who didn't make it can still participate...they usually put them on baritone or sousaphone. (not the most popular instruments! )

(I found this interesting too....my DS15 plays trumpet in the high school band, and he said that a few incoming freshman did not make trumpet this year. I was kind of surprised by that. They are playing baritone instead. We have a band of almost 300, so maybe that's why?)

 

[Tinijocaro]

Right on the money. I teach strings in 4 elementary schools with 4 different band directors and have never heard of such a thing. For beginning percussionists, yes. I personally would go to the director first. Ask him to explain the sudden change, tell him why you disagree with it. If that doesn't work, let his principal know. At that point, if that doesn't work, go to a school board meeting with as many other parents as you can find and let them know you are not pleased. It would be nice if this director was taken to task and asked to show other programs in your area (or anywhere) that has adopted this policy.

I don't post much, but as a band director, when I see things about band directors being STUPID, boy does it make me mad!

I can completely understand piano as a prerequisite for percussion. Keyboard instruments are the same as piano, just with mallets. My school doesn't require that, but it helps. Kids with piano experience are sometimes also put on oboe, bassoon or french horn because those instruments are somewhat specialized and require a good ear - which will tend to be more developed if the kid has experience.

But to be IN band? NO. FREAKING. WAY. What about this mysterious concept of **teaching** the kids how to read music? I suppose that's what that requirement is there for, so that the band director doesn't have to do that. I suppose this band director also requires that they figure out fingerings, embouchure, breathing, etc. somewhere other than in the band hall. UGH.

And to the PP whose DD didn't "make" band - even MORE shame on that band director! The band interviews are to place a kid on their best fit instrument based on the needs of the kids and of the program. Kids wind up mad at us all the time because they wanted to play saxophone and could make an OK sound on the sax mouthpiece, but we don't need 30 beginner saxes - we need 8. But we don't tell them they can't be in band! There is an instrument that will work for everyone who wants to play one. I hate to see kids get left out like that.