Kia Sedona problems - Updated 6/30

[Disneyjosh229]

I was looking into Kias, because I want to buy an inexpensive minivan to replace my lemon Dodge Caravan, but I see I'd better look elsewhere!

The new Chevrolet Uplanders are SUPER nice!! They come standard with the DVD entertainment center and rear power doors. I think its about 23,000, but with the incentives and the employee pricing to everyone, you should be able to get one around 16,000

 

[brettb]

A few points:

1) Somebody did a survey in Europe about car brands. The luxury makers (BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc.) topped the list when people ranked them in terms of *expected* quality and the cheap brands were at the bottom (i.e. Hyundai). When they evaulated *actual* reliability, Hyundai exceeded many of the premium brands - the Hyundais did "surprisingly" well and some of the premium brands did suprisingly poorly.

2) When Japanese cars were made in Japan, they started to do well compared to American cars not just because of price but because of the quality of the product and the dealer experience. My grandmother's Cadillac Cimmeron (a horrible concept in itself) was a POC. When the A/C wasn't cold enough, the dealer's solution was to wrap a bare wire around the temperature sensor so the compressor would run continously. I'm glad we looked under the hood after that "repair!"

3) Most of the Japanese companies have become Japanese *brands* with the parts and labor coming from all over the world, though a heck of a lot of it comes from the US. I think the only thing made in Japan in my V6 Accord is the transmission. It was built in Ohio. I think Toyota has invested (or will) about a billion dollars on US auto plants. I believe Hyundai is building major plants as well. My wife's '95 Nissan Altima was built in the US as well. How many GM cars are built in Canada? How many "American" brands are built in Mexico? If these things concern you, read the label on the car. It lists where major parts came from and where it was assembled. Does the "nationality" of a car maker really matter any more? What determines this? The location of the corporate headquarters? Or the nationality of the bulk of the stockholders?

Welcome to the global economy!

Brett

 

[ducklite]

My first Saturn (1996 SL1) had a cracked cylinder head at 90k+ miles. The repaired it for free and provided me a rental car for the lenght of service.

You too, huh? We had ours replaced at 48,000 miles, and when they told us it was bad again at about 88,000 miles I told them to keep the car and bought a new one.

My Ion with about 20K miles is at the dealer right now with an unknown ailment, very inconvenient for me, they tried to make it as easy as possible, offering to oick it up and bring it back and bring me a loaner.

Saturn is absolutely the best for service!

Anne

 

[Lewisc]

According to Kia's website the maximum they'll pay for trip interruption expenses such as car rental, meals and lodging is $100/ day with a 3 day maximum.

You can either make sure you get your $300 or complain to the consumer affairs reporter at your local TV station and see if they can "shame" Kia into giving you more.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

A few points:

1) Somebody did a survey in Europe about car brands. The luxury makers (BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc.) topped the list when people ranked them in terms of *expected* quality and the cheap brands were at the bottom (i.e. Hyundai). When they evaulated *actual* reliability, Hyundai exceeded many of the premium brands - the Hyundais did "surprisingly" well and some of the premium brands did suprisingly poorly.

2) When Japanese cars were made in Japan, they started to do well compared to American cars not just because of price but because of the quality of the product and the dealer experience. My grandmother's Cadillac Cimmeron (a horrible concept in itself) was a POC. When the A/C wasn't cold enough, the dealer's solution was to wrap a bare wire around the temperature sensor so the compressor would run continously. I'm glad we looked under the hood after that "repair!"

3) Most of the Japanese companies have become Japanese *brands* with the parts and labor coming from all over the world, though a heck of a lot of it comes from the US. I think the only thing made in Japan in my V6 Accord is the transmission. It was built in Ohio. I think Toyota has invested (or will) about a billion dollars on US auto plants. I believe Hyundai is building major plants as well. My wife's '95 Nissan Altima was built in the US as well. How many GM cars are built in Canada? How many "American" brands are built in Mexico? If these things concern you, read the label on the car. It lists where major parts came from and where it was assembled. Does the "nationality" of a car maker really matter any more? What determines this? The location of the corporate headquarters? Or the nationality of the bulk of the stockholders?

Welcome to the global economy!

Brett

FYI I work for GM Powertrain...

The point Im trying to get across is not where the vehicle is BUILT. Obviously GM Makes the...

Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Chevrolet Avalanche

All in Salao Mexico. If you understand NAFTA, all of this is given, but... the point im trying to make is that it dosent matter where the vehicle is built, it matters where the MONEY goes back to. Even though the vehicle was built here in the US, a small percentage of the profits come here, the other 95% or so go back to the third world country where there headquartered. If you were involved in the automotive world, you would realize what an impact Japaneese vehicles (mainly) are making on our economy! GM has closed 3 Plants in Baltimore MD and Lansing, MI because of lost profits. Why do you think they've begun Employee Pricing to everyone?? They cant compete with cheap labor and parts!!! And beleve me, its not just GM hurting, its also Ford and Chrysler. Open your eyes!

 

[Disneyjosh229]

A few points:
3) ...I think the only thing made in Japan in my V6 Accord is the transmission...

You mean the only "component" ASSEMBLED in Japan is your trans.

 

[ducklite]

We own two Saturns and a Toyota Prius. We do try to buy USA cars, but they don't make a reliable non-SUV hybrid. And we didn't want to wait for three years while they tried to get it together to do so.

ANne

 

[Pinnie]

FYI I work for GM Powertrain...

The point Im trying to get across is not where the vehicle is BUILT. Obviously GM Makes the...

Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Chevrolet Avalanche

All in Salao Mexico. If you understand NAFTA, all of this is given, but... the point im trying to make is that it dosent matter where the vehicle is built, it matters where the MONEY goes back to. Even though the vehicle was built here in the US, a small percentage of the profits come here, the other 95% or so go back to the third world country where there headquartered. If you were involved in the automotive world, you would realize what an impact Japaneese vehicles (mainly) are making on our economy! GM has closed 3 Plants in Baltimore MD and Lansing, MI because of lost profits. Why do you think they've begun Employee Pricing to everyone?? They cant compete with cheap labor and parts!!! And beleve me, its not just GM hurting, its also Ford and Chrysler. Open your eyes!

You are SO right. DH works for one of the "Big 3" and I can't even begin to tell you how many of our friends and neighbors have been hurt by cheap imports. DS has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and can't fine a job in his field. What some fail to realize is that while these imports may be 'assembled' here, they are designed in foreign countries for .95 an hour.

pinnie

 

[Disneyjosh229]

We own two Saturns and a Toyota Prius. We do try to buy USA cars, but they don't make a reliable non-SUV hybrid. And we didn't want to wait for three years while they tried to get it together to do so.

ANne

I agree, the President of GM, Rick Wagoner said GM is going to begin a 1 billon dollar investment into hybrid vehicles. Thats where the "Big 3" are really lacking.

 

[mill4023]

FYI I work for GM Powertrain...
They cant compete with cheap labor and parts!!! And beleve me, its not just GM hurting, its also Ford and Chrysler. Open your eyes!

Awww, the bias is revealed. So much misinformation in this thread.

What in the world are you talking about? Are you actually claiming that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are doing better than American auto companies because of cheap labor and parts? How can you claim that when it is MORE expensive to buy a japanese car.

Last I heard, it was the american companies who were taking advantage of the cheap labor in Mexico and other countries.

The reason american companies cannot compete is because they have an inferior product. Any objective analysis of reliability and engineering quality makes it clear that Honda and Toyota and to a lesser extent Nissan, all make a higher quality product than EVERY american automaker. If it was a matter of cheap labor, the japanese cars would be cheaper instead of more expensive.

Someone made a comment about cars being designed in other countries for 95 cents an hour. I'd like to know what you are talking about. Japan, South Korea, and Germany are NOT third world low wage countries.

 

[mill4023]

The new Chevrolet Uplanders are SUPER nice!! They come standard with the DVD entertainment center and rear power doors. I think its about 23,000, but with the incentives and the employee pricing to everyone, you should be able to get one around 16,000

Just have to say that we rented an Uplander on our recent trip to Orlando and I absolutely hated it. The power side doors were terrible. I always thought it would be really cool to have power sliding doors, but they were so slow and if you wanted to open them without using the remote, it actually took more force to get them to the point where the power kicked in than it takes to open the non-power doors on other vans I've driven. It drove me crazy. I could go on and on about all the things I hated about this car, but I'll just say that I wouldn't take one if it was free and I was SO glad to hand over the keys.

And just so we're clear, unlike Disneyjosh, I don't work for any car company and have no vested interest in one car company over another.

 

[mill4023]

Even though the vehicle was built here in the US, a small percentage of the profits come here, the other 95% or so go back to the third world country where there headquartered. If you were involved in the automotive world, you would realize what an impact Japaneese vehicles (mainly) are making on our economy!

Sorry, just have to quote this part, because I can't believe you actually just referred to Japan as a third world country.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

...So much misinformation in this thread.

Ok, "Mill" lets look at your "misinformation"

#1
Are you actually claiming that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are doing better than American auto companies because of cheap labor and parts?

Actually Mill, its a fact! In the 2004 model year, Ford was overtaken as the Third largest revenue car company by Toyota!

#2
How can you claim that when it is MORE expensive to buy a japanese car.

Thats not a true statment at ALL! Just as a comparison, A Toyota Tocoma Regular Cab starts at $13,415 where as a Chevrolet Colorado Regular Cab starts at $15,730.


#3
Last I heard, it was the american companies who were taking advantage of the cheap labor in Mexico and other countries.

Mill, what "other" countries are you refering to? Canada? That would be the other location of most of GM, Ford and Chrysler plants.

#4
The reason american companies cannot compete is because they have an inferior product.

Thats totally an opinon!

#5
Any objective analysis of reliability and engineering quality makes it clear that Honda and Toyota and to a lesser extent Nissan, all make a higher quality product than EVERY american automaker.

Are you infering to the "Initial Quality" tests? Of course every product seems great when its brand new!

#6
If it was a matter of cheap labor, the japanese cars would be cheaper instead of more expensive.

They are

#7
Someone made a comment about cars being designed in other countries for 95 cents an hour. I'd like to know what you are talking about. Japan, South Korea, and Germany are NOT third world low wage countries.

Refresh my mind, which Japanesse car company has a design studio in Germany?

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Just have to say that we rented an Uplander on our recent trip to Orlando and I absolutely hated it. The power side doors were terrible. I always thought it would be really cool to have power sliding doors, but they were so slow and if you wanted to open them without using the remote, it actually took more force to get them to the point where the power kicked in than it takes to open the non-power doors on other vans I've driven. It drove me crazy. I could go on and on about all the things I hated about this car, but I'll just say that I wouldn't take one if it was free and I was SO glad to hand over the keys.

And just so we're clear, unlike Disneyjosh, I don't work for any car company and have no vested interest in one car company over another.

If the power sliding doors are sooooooo teribly slow, why dont you do it your self! Isn't that a novel idea!!

Oh and the part about the "Vested intrest in one car company", thats false also, my wife works at Ford.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Whoa, my head's spinning here!!

OP, sorry you had to deal with such a fiasco and hope your mother can get it straightened out. I would not be happy about it, that's for sure.

FWIW, the last 5 cars I've had have been 4 Jeeps and 1 Chrysler minivan. No major problems with the vehicles or the service - ever. (And don't care to debate anyone, LOL).

 

[brettb]

...So much misinformation in this thread.

#2
How can you claim that when it is MORE expensive to buy a japanese car.

Thats not a true statment at ALL! Just as a comparison, A Toyota Tocoma Regular Cab starts at $13,415 where as a Chevrolet Colorado Regular Cab starts at $15,730.


#3
Last I heard, it was the american companies who were taking advantage of the cheap labor in Mexico and other countries.

Mill, what "other" countries are you refering to? Canada? That would be the other location of most of GM, Ford and Chrysler plants.

#6
If it was a matter of cheap labor, the japanese cars would be cheaper instead of more expensive.

They are

Regarding 2 & 6, in this area, sticker prices are useless for comparison purposes. "American" cars are much more severely discounted than comparable foreign cars. When I bought my car (the Accord made in Ohio), the price I paid was significantly more than a similarly equipped Taurus. I didn't compare GM or Chrysler vehicles.

Regarding #3, why wouldn't Canada have lower labor costs? One of the "American" CEO's has been complaining about the cost of health insurance lately - saying it adds something like $1000 to the cost of their cars. With the national health system in Canada, that would be a savings right there.

What's the big deal about the destination of profits? If they go to Toyota, they turn around and build plants in the U.S. What's more important? Where the stockholders live or where the jobs are?

BMW built their plant in Spartanburg because labor costs were cheaper here than in Germany. Japanese makers have followed suit. Any argument that "cheap Japanese" labor is killing American is silly. Toyota even has a design studio here. The Japanese companies seem far more respectful of the U.S. consumer - their local customer - than the American companies!

The bottom line is that *all* these companies are now global entities that all happen to build a bunch of cars in the U.S. Perhaps you just work for the wrong one.

BTW, look to American steel to see what happens when long-standing protectionism is stopped. I've always thought that the "Buy American" mentality was a form of non-legislative protectionism.

Oh, and Cadillacs? The new ones sure look nice and I'm sure they're fine cars, but they're simply out of my price range, just like all the other luxury marquees.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Oh, and Cadillacs? The new ones sure look nice and I'm sure they're fine cars, but they're simply out of my price range, just like all the other luxury marquees.

Just to let you know, Cadillac dosen't have there "own" platforms. They share the..

Escalade:with
GMC Yukon
Chevrolet Tahoe

Escalade EXT: with
Chevrolet Avalanche

Escalade ESV: with
GMC Yukon XL
Chevrolet Suburban
(All 3 were ranked highest in initial quality 3 years in a row)

Anyways, you guys can have your "beleifs" about supporting foreign companies in general, and buying your Kia Vans with new motors at 32,000 miles, but all im saying, is that it comes down to moral, do you want to support your local company, or would you rather give your money to a far away company, which you will never see reinvested in your own land?

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Regarding 2 & 6, in this area, sticker prices are useless for comparison purposes. "American" cars are much more severely discounted than comparable foreign cars. When I bought my car (the Accord made in Ohio), the price I paid was significantly more than a similarly equipped Taurus. I didn't compare GM or Chrysler vehicles.

Im talking sticker prices BEFORE rebates and other offers. Being a GM employee, obviosly its cheaper for me to buy a GM Product because i get such a discount. I can get a $55,000 cadillac for under $35,000.

Oh, and you mean the Accord ASSEMBLED in Ohio. I can gaurntee you nothing but assembly on that car was from Ohio.

 

[brettb]

Im talking sticker prices BEFORE rebates and other offers. Being a GM employee, obviosly its cheaper for me to buy a GM Product because i get such a discount. I can get a $55,000 cadillac for under $35,000.

Who cares? The only thing important is how much a non-employee (the bulk of consumers) ACTUALLY PAY for Tauruses, Accords, Camrys, Altimas, and whatever GM and Chrysler products are in this class.

Oh, and you mean the Accord ASSEMBLED in Ohio. I can gaurntee you nothing but assembly on that car was from Ohio.

Canadian-sourced parts and labor are blended into the "domestic" figures on the label on the car, so cars built in Canada look more "American" than they really are. This was probably the result of lobbying efforts by U.S. car companies.

"ASSEMBLED" seems pretty darn important to me! And you can "gaurntee" [sic] all you want, but the label on my car said otherwise.

The true domestic content of cars is complicated. The fact of the matter is there are certain "foreign" models that have far more domestic content than certain "domestic" models.

Furthermore, though I don't follow it very closely, I see major investments by foreign firms in the U.S. while American firms are exporting jobs to the north and south or import engines or other parts from plants in Europe, etc. Why wouldn't American companies buy parts on the global market to minimize costs? If I were a stockholder, I'd be pretty ticked if they didn't!

Brett

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Who cares? The only thing important is how much a non-employee (the bulk of consumers) ACTUALLY PAY for Tauruses, Accords, Camrys, Altimas, and whatever GM and Chrysler products are in this class.



Canadian-sourced parts and labor are blended into the "domestic" figures on the label on the car, so cars built in Canada look more "American" than they really are. This was probably the result of lobbying efforts by U.S. car companies.

"ASSEMBLED" seems pretty darn important to me! And you can "gaurntee" [sic] all you want, but the label on my car said otherwise.

The true domestic content of cars is complicated. The fact of the matter is there are certain "foreign" models that have far more domestic content than certain "domestic" models.

Furthermore, though I don't follow it very closely, I see major investments by foreign firms in the U.S. while American firms are exporting jobs to the north and south or import engines or other parts from plants in Europe, etc. Why wouldn't American companies buy parts on the global market to minimize costs? If I were a stockholder, I'd be pretty ticked if they didn't!

Brett

Well, now through July 5th, everyones an employee with the discount to everyone!! Like I said before, your entitled to your opinon, just as much as Im entitled to mine, so if you feel that your car is better then everyone elses, thats your opinon. I feel differently, but I guess its none of my business telling you what to buy, neither is it your business to tell me that my cars a piece of crap, because it isn't in my eyes and many others.