Kia Sedona problems - Updated 6/30

[Shagley]

I just wanted to mention that this thread was never intended to spark a debate over foreign vs. American cars. My family has owned both, has had good and bad experiences with both, and will continue to buy both foreign and American cars in the future. I just wanted to post our experience with Kia Customer Service so if anyone was considering buying a Kia, they would think twice - NOT because I think their cars are junk (I know some people have had great luck with their Kia's), but because once their vehicle is sold, they don't give a flying rat's you-know-what about the customer that purchased it*. I don't mean the local dealers, the local dealer in Georgia was great about trying to help us out, but their hands were tied because the Kia District, Regional, and Home Offices were not being cooperative.


* DISboard Disclaimer - the comments above are strictly the opinion of Shagley, and are in no way trying to make anyone feel like they must have the same opinion. My opinion has been jaded by my personal experience with Kia, and I understand that everyone's opinion will be different based on their personal experiences.

 

[Lewisc]

I'm confused. They're suppose to cover your lodging, meals and car rental for 3 days up to $100 /day. Did they even give you the $300 you're entitled to?

Would have been a lot easier if they just told you upfront you weren't going to get anything.

I just wanted to mention that this thread was never intended to spark a debate over foreign vs. American cars. My family has owned both, has had good and bad experiences with both, and will continue to buy both foreign and American cars in the future. I just wanted to post our experience with Kia Customer Service so if anyone was considering buying a Kia, they would think twice - NOT because I think their cars are junk (I know some people have had great luck with their Kia's), but because once their vehicle is sold, they don't give a flying rat's you-know-what about the customer that purchased it*. I don't mean the local dealers, the local dealer in Georgia was great about trying to help us out, but their hands were tied because the Kia District, Regional, and Home Offices were not being cooperative.


* DISboard Disclaimer - the comments above are strictly the opinion of Shagley, and are in no way trying to make anyone feel like they must have the same opinion. My opinion has been jaded by my personal experience with Kia, and I understand that everyone's opinion will be different based on their personal experiences.

 

[brettb]

Well, now through July 5th, everyones an employee with the discount to everyone!! Like I said before, your entitled to your opinon, just as much as Im entitled to mine, so if you feel that your car is better then everyone elses, thats your opinon. I feel differently, but I guess its none of my business telling you what to buy, neither is it your business to tell me that my cars a piece of crap, because it isn't in my eyes and many others.

I don't think I've spoken much - if at all - about anybody's car being crap except for my Grandmother's 1980-something Cadillac Cimmeron. I've been talking primarily about the foreign vs. domestic content of cars and how it does not correspond with where any given company's corporate headquarters are located. I've also made the point that comparable American cars tend to less expensive than their Japanese counterparts - something I think you alleged was false earlier. And now you're bringing up GM's employee-discount-for-everyone program, which further lowers the real price of GM cars to consumers, and supports *my* assertion!

Well, I think we've sidetracked the bum-Kia thread long enough....

 

[mill4023]

If the power sliding doors are sooooooo teribly slow, why dont you do it your self! Isn't that a novel idea!!

Oh and the part about the "Vested intrest in one car company", thats false also, my wife works at Ford.

I'm not sure what you mean. You can't open them yourself. If you do it manually, you pull it, then the power kicks in and does the rest. You CANNOT open the doors without waiting for the power mechanism to open them at it's own pace.

And the fact that your wife works at Ford makes it even more obvious that you have a huge bias that makes it impossible for you to see the facts.

 

[mill4023]

So much misinformation in this thread.

Ok, "Mill" lets look at your "misinformation"

#1
Are you actually claiming that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are doing better than American auto companies because of cheap labor and parts?

Actually Mill, its a fact! In the 2004 model year, Ford was overtaken as the Third largest revenue car company by Toyota!
Huh??? I never questioned the fact that Japanese car makers are doing better. I questioned the reason you claimed that was. Yes, Toyota is kicking Ford's butt, but I'm astounded that you would claim this is due to cheap labor and parts. I can't believe you think Japan is a third world country. Which century are you living in?

#2
How can you claim that when it is MORE expensive to buy a japanese car.

Thats not a true statment at ALL! Just as a comparison, A Toyota Tocoma Regular Cab starts at $13,415 where as a Chevrolet Colorado Regular Cab starts at $15,730.
Toyota 4Runner 4wd SR5 - $31,520
Chevy Blazer LS ZR2 4WD - $26,575

Toyota Sienna CE 23,425
Dodge Caravan CV 19,835

I'm sure you can find both cases if you look, but you cannot truthfully say that Japanese cars in general are cheaper. It's just not true when you look at similarly equipped vehicles. Toyota and Honda especially carry a premium because people know they are more reliable cars. I will give you that cost is one of the reasons the South Korean companies are doing well, but not the Japanese.

#3
Last I heard, it was the american companies who were taking advantage of the cheap labor in Mexico and other countries.

Mill, what "other" countries are you refering to? Canada? That would be the other location of most of GM, Ford and Chrysler plants.
Why does GM make cars in Mexico? Duh, cheap labor. Can you show me where Toyota and Honda are making cars with much cheaper labor than that in Mexico?

#4
The reason american companies cannot compete is because they have an inferior product.

Thats totally an opinon!
Depends on how you define it. There are lots of reasons people like some cars over others. I love Suburbans and will probably buy one in the next couple years. I love them because of the features they have, the space they provide, and the way they drive. But if you define quality based on reliability, than it's not just an opinion, it's a proven fact.

#5
Any objective analysis of reliability and engineering quality makes it clear that Honda and Toyota and to a lesser extent Nissan, all make a higher quality product than EVERY american automaker.

Are you infering to the "Initial Quality" tests? Of course every product seems great when its brand new!
What do you mean? If I was referring (not infering) to Initial Quality, why would Japanese cars have an advantage? Whether you look at Initial Quality or long-term reliability, Japanese cars have been far better than American cars for at least the past 20 years.

#6
If it was a matter of cheap labor, the japanese cars would be cheaper instead of more expensive.

They are

#7
Someone made a comment about cars being designed in other countries for 95 cents an hour. I'd like to know what you are talking about. Japan, South Korea, and Germany are NOT third world low wage countries.

Refresh my mind, which Japanesse car company has a design studio in Germany?[/QUOTE]
Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that engineers in the third world countries known as Japan and Germany are being paid 95 cents an hour to design Hondas and Toyotas and that they are far less expensive than american cars made in Mexico with their really high wages and that's why people are buying them?

 

[Disneyjosh229]

So much misinformation in this thread.

Ok, "Mill" lets look at your "misinformation"

#1
Are you actually claiming that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are doing better than American auto companies because of cheap labor and parts?

Actually Mill, its a fact! In the 2004 model year, Ford was overtaken as the Third largest revenue car company by Toyota!
Huh??? I never questioned the fact that Japanese car makers are doing better. I questioned the reason you claimed that was. Yes, Toyota is kicking Ford's butt, but I'm astounded that you would claim this is due to cheap labor and parts. I can't believe you think Japan is a third world country. Which century are you living in?

#2
How can you claim that when it is MORE expensive to buy a japanese car.

Thats not a true statment at ALL! Just as a comparison, A Toyota Tocoma Regular Cab starts at $13,415 where as a Chevrolet Colorado Regular Cab starts at $15,730.
Toyota 4Runner 4wd SR5 - $31,520
Chevy Blazer LS ZR2 4WD - $26,575

Toyota Sienna CE 23,425
Dodge Caravan CV 19,835

I'm sure you can find both cases if you look, but you cannot truthfully say that Japanese cars in general are cheaper. It's just not true when you look at similarly equipped vehicles. Toyota and Honda especially carry a premium because people know they are more reliable cars. I will give you that cost is one of the reasons the South Korean companies are doing well, but not the Japanese.

#3
Last I heard, it was the american companies who were taking advantage of the cheap labor in Mexico and other countries.

Mill, what "other" countries are you refering to? Canada? That would be the other location of most of GM, Ford and Chrysler plants.
Why does GM make cars in Mexico? Duh, cheap labor. Can you show me where Toyota and Honda are making cars with much cheaper labor than that in Mexico?

#4
The reason american companies cannot compete is because they have an inferior product.

Thats totally an opinon!
Depends on how you define it. There are lots of reasons people like some cars over others. I love Suburbans and will probably buy one in the next couple years. I love them because of the features they have, the space they provide, and the way they drive. But if you define quality based on reliability, than it's not just an opinion, it's a proven fact.

#5
Any objective analysis of reliability and engineering quality makes it clear that Honda and Toyota and to a lesser extent Nissan, all make a higher quality product than EVERY american automaker.

Are you infering to the "Initial Quality" tests? Of course every product seems great when its brand new!
What do you mean? If I was referring (not infering) to Initial Quality, why would Japanese cars have an advantage? Whether you look at Initial Quality or long-term reliability, Japanese cars have been far better than American cars for at least the past 20 years.

#6
If it was a matter of cheap labor, the japanese cars would be cheaper instead of more expensive.

They are

#7
Someone made a comment about cars being designed in other countries for 95 cents an hour. I'd like to know what you are talking about. Japan, South Korea, and Germany are NOT third world low wage countries.

Refresh my mind, which Japanesse car company has a design studio in Germany?

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that engineers in the third world countries known as Japan and Germany are being paid 95 cents an hour to design Hondas and Toyotas and that they are far less expensive than american cars made in Mexico with their really high wages and that's why people are buying them?[/QUOTE]

Ok, Number 2..

A Chevy Blazer LS 4wd ZR2 is a 2 door truck, but the Toyota 4 Runner 4wd SR5 is a 4 door truck. Obviously, a 4 door is more expensive

Number 3..

let me try to put this in simpilar terms so you and others can understand this..

THE ONLY TOYOTA AND HONDA CARS BUILT HERE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE SOLD HERE!!! IF YOU BUY A HONDA IN EUROPE ITS BUILT IN JAPAN!!

The difference is though, if you buy a Ford Taurus (Made in Chicago) in Europe, its built HERE IN THE USA, then shipped to Europe!!

Number 4..

Quality based on reliablity is NOT a proven fact because of one reason. VARIATION! Not every Chevy Suburban (if you will) is going to last you the same amount of miles. One could last 120,000 miles where as another could last 180,000 miles.

Number 7..

No, I never did say that Germany was involved in Japaneese cars what so ever. Someone along this whole debate assumed this...


OK GUYS... Bottom line is, everyone has their own beliefs. If you beleve that EVER SINGLE japanesse car is better then every American car, have at it. Your intitled to your own opinon, as Im intitled to mine. Back to the point I was trying to make at the start of this thread. What do you expect out of a minivan that is SUGNIFICANTLY cheaper then any other van on the market to perform?

 

[No11's Mom]

Back to the point I was trying to make at the start of this thread. What do you expect out of a minivan that is SUGNIFICANTLY cheaper then any other van on the market to perform?

I just want to say that I think people buy what they can afford. If we could all afford to be driving Cadillac Escalades, then I'm sure we all would be. Unfortunately not all of us can. I'm sure there are many people that can only afford a Kia and are glad to be able to afford that. That doesn't mean that anyone thinks it is a superior product to American vehicles. Regardless, a certain minimum level of customer service should be expected from any company.

To the OP - It was nice of your mom to loan you her car. And it sounds like you did the best you could to make the most of a difficult situation and enjoy your vacation. It was nice of you to post your experience so that anyone thinking of purchasing a Kia can factor your experience into their decision. Hope Kia comes around and reimburses you for some of the expenses you are out.

 

[Lewisc]

When Consumers Union reviewed the Yugo they listed all the problems. They said it was to new to have any reliability data but they were using a Fiat engine that had reliability issues and there was no reason to think the Yugo would be any more reliable.

The review ended with the suggestion that if the Yugo was all you could afford you'd be better off with a used car. You can even buy an extended warranty, reasonable if the used car is still under the mfg warranty. A new car is nice but sometimes a used car makes more sense.

A company like Kia isn't willing to give more than is required. My biggest complaint is Kia paying games with the OP. Yes we'll pay for the rental, no just kidding. Give them the $300 and tell them that's all you're going to get.

I just want to say that I think people buy what they can afford. If we could all afford to be driving Cadillac Escalades, then I'm sure we all would be. Unfortunately not all of us can. I'm sure there are many people that can only afford a Kia and are glad to be able to afford that.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

When Consumers Union reviewed the Yugo they listed all the problems. They said it was to new to have any reliability data but they were using a Fiat engine that had reliability issues and there was no reason to think the Yugo would be any more reliable.

The review ended with the suggestion that if the Yugo was all you could afford you'd be better off with a used car. You can even buy an extended warranty, reasonable if the used car is still under the mfg warranty. A new car is nice but sometimes a used car makes more sense.

A company like Kia isn't willing to give more than is required. My biggest complaint is Kia paying games with the OP. Yes we'll pay for the rental, no just kidding. Give them the $300 and tell them that's all you're going to get.

If your in a situation were all you can buy is a new Kia, go pick out a 1 or 2 year old car thats certified and comes with a warrenty.

 

[mill4023]

Number 3..

let me try to put this in simpilar terms so you and others can understand this..

THE ONLY TOYOTA AND HONDA CARS BUILT HERE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE SOLD HERE!!! IF YOU BUY A HONDA IN EUROPE ITS BUILT IN JAPAN!!

Number 4..

Quality based on reliablity is NOT a proven fact because of one reason. VARIATION! Not every Chevy Suburban (if you will) is going to last you the same amount of miles. One could last 120,000 miles where as another could last 180,000 miles.

Only 2 things I care to respond to here.

Number 3, you really do not understand the point. I wasn't saying that all Hondas were built here. I was saying that Japan is not a third world country and building Hondas in Japan is much more expensive not less expensive than building Chevys in Mexico.
I'm not trying to make a foreign vs american cars argument. All I'm trying to do is point out why you are so completely misguided in your statements.

You claim that the reason Honda and Toyota are doing better than American companies is that the American companies cannot compete with the cheap labor Honda and Toyota use. The fact is that companies like GM are using cheaper labor than Honda and Toyota and even Korea.
Here are the average hourly production labor costs in 2002 for automotive manufacturing:
U.S. - $31.67
Japan - $24.37
Korea - $13.62
Mexico - $5.12

And since the early 90's, the labor costs of manufacturing in Canada have been consistently lower than those in Japan.

So if Honda and Toyota are building cars in the U.S. and Japan, while GM is building cars in the U.S. and Mexico(where it costs 1/5th as much for labor), can you PLEASE explain how this gives Honda and Toyota an economic advantage?

Number 4, I have no idea what your point is, but it made me laugh. Variation has NOTHING to do with this. Obviously not every car of a particular model is going to have exactly the same reliability. But that doesn't change the fact that overall, there are a lot fewer mechanical problems with Japanese cars than with American cars and that has been true for many years.

Obviously nobody can guarantee 100% that 1 particular Honda is going to have fewer problems than 1 particular Ford. But it's not difficult to look at statistics about the total number of problems owners of a particular brand have compared to the total number of problems owners of another particular brand have. And yes, it's a very easily proven fact that on average, you are less likely to have mechanical problems with Japanese cars than with American cars.

And if you are going to share your VAST expertise on the subject with us, it might help your credibility if you could at least spell the word "Japanese".

Now, back on the subject,
I'm sorry to hear about the OP's issues with Kia. Yes, Kia's have had reliability issues. Hyundai had it's share of issues as well, but has shown a lot of improvement in the past couple years. I personally bought a Kia knowing that it was not going to be as reliable as a Honda or Toyota. But it was more affordable and the fact that it had a much longer warranty made me feel more comfortable with it. We've had our 04 Sedona for a year and a half and have put 37k miles on it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but so far, we've been very happy with it. It should be paid off by the time the powertrain warranty is up(100k miles), so I'm not too worried. Our next car will probably be a slightly used Suburban and I'll buy that knowing it won't be as reliable as a Honda or Toyota.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Number 4, I have no idea what your point is, but it made me laugh. Variation has NOTHING to do with this. Obviously not every car of a particular model is going to have exactly the same reliability. But that doesn't change the fact that overall, there are a lot fewer mechanical problems with Japanese cars than with American cars and that has been true for many years.

I would like to know where you've found this "fact". If you can find a non-bias study of the two, I would love to read it. Im not trying to prove a point, but what kind of resale do Kia's get?

 

[mill4023]

Im not trying to prove a point, but what kind of resale do Kia's get?

LOL. You don't have to prove the point. I already know Kia's have crappy resale value. Now Hondas and Toyotas on the other hand ...

 

[djbleach]

This can really be a "hot topic" for people. Like politics and religion.
My experience I've had better "luck" with Toyota and Honda. We own a GMC Yukon and it has given us problems. A very nice SUV when It's running!
I would say a complaint I have with GMC is they have the same problems year after year. For example: The Intake manifold gasket is notorious for leaking on the Yukons. It's been a problem for years, We have a 99 and they are still having problems with them. GMC must know about this problem (I called and complained after learning that it's a common problem) They still haven't changed the gasket to a more dependable one. It's things like this that I feel give American cars a bad rap. Sure there are many American cars with 200k on them. The difference between the two is probably the maintenance that has had to be proformed.
I'd like to support American, I also like value for my money.

 

[roadtripper]

I don't want to fan the fire, but the OP was talking about Kia customer service--warning people that Kia might not make good on their warranty, which is why most of us buy Kias in the first place. We have a similar horror story.

We have a 1998 Chevy Venture minivan, and a 2001 Kia Rio.
The minivan had the typical manifold intake gasket problem shortly after the warranty expired. GM reimbursed us 70% of the cost--almost 600.00--with very little hassle.

When the 2001 Kia was still under powertrain warranty--72,000 miles-- the engine was destroyed because the timing belt broke. Unbeknownst to me, Kia insists that you replace the timing belt at 60,000 or the warranty is void. I had taken it to the dealer for its 60,000 mile service, and told them to do whatever was needed to keep my warranty. They never mentioned replacing the timing belt.

Had to replace the engine at a cost of 2600.00. Kia won't cover it because they claim that the belt was my responsibility (even though I brought the car to the authorized dealer where I bought it for its scheduled repairs). Long story short, I am now filing in small claims court against the dealership for negligence--Kia Motors America has closed my case without my consent. I am considering driving around with a big sign in the back of my car that says "Please don't buy a Kia."

In the future, I will only buy cars from companies who listen to their consumers. Any car can have a problem, but it's how the comapny deals with it that makes the difference.

 

[roberrl187]

I have had two Kia's. A 2001 Kia Rio and a 2002 Kia Sedona. I have not had a problem with either. I turned the Rio in when I bought the Sedona and never had a problem with it. The Rio had almost 40,000 miles on it in the 1 1/2 years that I had it. I drove everywhere in it, including WDW.

The only problem that I have had with the Sedona is the A/C compressor died and they replaced it with out any issue. The gave me a rental car because they had to order the part and I haven't had any problems since.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Kia.

 

[MAH4546]

What some fail to realize is that while these imports may be 'assembled' here, they are designed in foreign countries for .95 an hour.

pinnie

No they aren't. The Toyota Solara, Honda Element, Honda Odyssey, Nissan Quest, Honda Accord, and many others are designed and engineered, from start to finish, in the United States. Many of these are cars are not even sold overseas. The Honda Accords and Toyota Corrollas sold in the United States are entirely unique to the US market. Japan and Europe get entirely different vehicles with the same nameplate. In fact, the Japanese-market Honda Accord is sold in the United States as the Acura TSX - that is how entirely different the cars are. Many foreign car companies have entire design and engineering teams in the United States. Kia just broke ground on a new design studio in California that is opening in 2007.

The difference is though, if you buy a Ford Taurus (Made in Chicago) in Europe, its built HERE IN THE USA, then shipped to Europe!!

Good luck finding a Ford Taurus in Europe. The only American-built Ford sold in Europe is the Escape. That's it. If you buy a Ford in Europe, it is built in one of Ford's many European factories in the UK, Spain, Germany, and Poland. Ford's sold in Europe, such as the Mondeo and their version of the Focus, are vastly superior to the garbage they try to sell to consumers in the United States. It is not even funny how much better European Fords are. In Europe, Ford is actually considered a German nameplate, while Chevrolet's are rebadged Daewoos. The only American cars sold in Europe in large numbers are the Jeep Liberty (Cherokee in Europe), Wrangler, Chrysler PT Cruiser, and Chrysler 300. The Chrysler Voyager (they still call it Voyager in Europe) and Grand Cherokee, the two best selling American cars in Europe, and the European models are all built in Austria.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

UPDATE 6/30 - My Mom had a meeting with the owner of the local Kia/ Hyundai/Mitsubishi dealership in Peoria (where the van was purchased). He said that he will reimburse us for any expenses that we incurred due to this experience (even if Kia Corporation will not). He was also suprised / disappointed at how the Kia Corporation handled this situation. He had been on vacation for the last few weeks (we know this to be true, because we had tried to contact him earlier), but he apologized for how the situation was handled (we realize it wasn't his fault).

Looks like your local dealership is doing what he can to gain a loyal customer. Too bad he was away during your ordeal but glad that things worked out.