Kerry for the middle class?

How do you get a Kerry supporter to be quiet?


Ask them an intelligent question about Kerry and his plan.:p

I'm really shocked there are no responses. Please tell me they aren't reading this thread. They pop up in the Bush supp. thread so I'm sure they are here to. We could start naming names to see if it draws them out.
 
Bob, thanks, I couldn't think of the word "withholding." :o
 
Give them time and they will come. They are just trying to figure out their method of attack. Their busy looking for some web sights to post. ("The real figures")
 
I feel like I am jumping into shark infested water but oh well.

It's called the "I am President Bush watch me smile smirk and pray while I completely confuse you" tax plan. Good, trusting hardworking people are falling for it. Its not your fault.

The Great Tax Shift: The president says his cuts are simply a way of "giving people their money back." But the bill will come due one way or another - and lower - and middle-class households will foot it.
The Great Tax Shift

By William G. Gale and Peter Orszag
Issue Date: 05.04.04
The Bush administration claims that the guiding principle for its fiscal policy has been "lower income taxes for all, with the greatest help for those most in need," as the White House Web site puts it. The reality is starkly different. The tax cuts enacted during George W. Bush's presidency shift the burden of taxation away from upper-income, capital-owning households and toward the wage-earning households of the lower and middle classes. For all but the wealthy, this will ultimately cause substantial harm. Shifting costs to future generations of workers to finance tax boons for today's owners of capital is unproductive, unfair, and unwise.

The Bush administration presided over two major tax cuts, in 2001 and 2003, along with a smaller one in 2002. Those cuts officially were going to cost the federal government $1.7 trillion between 2001 and 2014, and to add nearly $1 trillion in higher payments on the national debt over that period. That may sound like a lot, but in fact the official estimates are low, artificially held down by gimmicks, including the ostensible sunsets of all the tax cuts in 2010 or before. At least under the administration's plans, these tax cuts would continue beyond their official expiration dates. If they are extended, they would reduce revenue by $3.6 trillion between 2001 and 2014 and cost a whopping $4.8 trillion when the additional debt service is included.

Without a doubt, and despite White House rhetoric to the contrary, the direct effect of the tax cuts is to widen after-tax income inequality. If the tax cuts are extended into 2011, after-tax incomes will increase by more than 9 percent for households in the top 1 percent of the income distribution in that year, by between 2 percent and 3 percent for households in the middle 60 percent, and by only 0.1 percent for households in the bottom 20 percent.

Most of the cost from the tax cuts reflects highly regressive measures, including lower marginal tax rates for high-income households, reduced taxation on capital gains and dividends, and elimination of the estate tax. These components provide extremely large benefits to a very small number of households, but they generate little if any benefit for most families. For most of the population, wages and salaries represent the vast majority of income. Capital income is much more significant the more income one makes. The top 1 percent of the population earns about one-tenth of the total wage and salary income but almost half of all the capital income. Shifting away from a tax on all income and toward a tax on just wages thus moves the tax burden on to lower-earning workers.

That means that the administration's claim -- that the cuts are progressive because high-income households will pay a higher share of the income tax after the changes than before -- is misleading. It's true that high-income households will pay a higher share of the income tax, at least in the short run. But changes in tax shares are not an accurate way of measuring progressivity. If we reduced everyone's income tax by 99.9 percent, for example, the shares of income taxes paid would remain constant -- but the net result would be highly regressive.

Furthermore, the administration's argument conveniently omits the estate tax (which is progressive and is slated to be eliminated), the corporate tax (which is progressive and was reduced in the tax cuts), and the payroll tax (which is regressive and was not cut). When all federal taxes are considered, the share paid by high-income households will decrease significantly because of the tax cuts.

So how did the White House manage to convince the public that Bush's tax cuts were in fact good for the middle class? The cuts did have some provisions that were designed to help the middle class, including a new 10-percent bracket (which means that all households, including low- and middle-income ones, pay a 10-percent rate rather than a 15-percent one on their first dollars of taxable income -- $7,000 in taxable income for singles and $14,000 for married couples); an expanded child credit; and tax cuts for married couples. Yet these provisions account for about one-third of the revenue loss from the tax cuts as a whole over a 10-year period.

In other words, the middle-class elements of the tax cuts were just a remarkably successful marketing ploy. They allowed proponents to extol the benefits for carefully selected Americans, disguising the much more regressive and expensive components and confusing the debate.

The ultimate effect of the tax cuts depends in part on how they are eventually financed. There are two options: reductions in other government programs and increases in other taxes. Borrowing indefinitely, the strategy preferred by many policy-makers, is not a long-term solution. That's because the longer policy-makers wait to pay for the tax cuts -- or to give up on the exercise and simply cancel them -- the more harm is imposed on the future economy from intervening budget deficits and the more the nation risks a full-blown fiscal crisis.

That danger exists because the deficit-financed tax cuts are, overall, harmful to the country's economic growth. Tax cuts themselves can have a positive direct effect on the economy; for example, they can reduce marginal tax rates and encourage people to work or save more. But tax cuts also increase the budget deficit, which has an adverse effect on economic growth over the long term because it reduces national savings, one of the key determinants of long-term productivity. Given the structure of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, various studies suggest that the net effect of these cuts is likely to be negative in the long run.

In addition to the losses from reduced economic growth, many families may suffer from increased interest rates on mortgages, car loans, and credit cards, rates that go up because higher budget deficits compete for the funds available for such lending. Conventional estimates suggest that the deficits associated with the Bush tax cuts could eventually raise long-term interest rates by between 0.5 percent and 1.5 percent, which would raise the annual payment on a $150,000 mortgage by between $500 and $2,000. Households that are net borrowers, which are more likely to have modest incomes, suffer from the increase in interest rates. Households that are net lenders, which tend to be higher income, can benefit.

Ultimately, though, continuing to finance the tax cuts by running up the budget deficit will be unsustainable because even the federal government can't borrow an unlimited amount. In the face of ongoing substantial deficits, financial markets will eventually grow worried about whether the government will be able to repay the borrowed funds. To avoid a fiscal crisis, a permanent tax cut has to be financed either with lower spending or higher revenues from other sources. Both options have problems. Paying for the full tax cuts in 2014 by reducing government spending would be catastrophic, both substantively and politically: It would require a 48-percent cut in Social Security benefits, complete elimination of the federal part of Medicaid, or an 80-percent cut in all domestic discretionary spending (such as for environmental protection, education, and health research). The overall effect would be more harmful to lower- and middle-class Americans, who depend on those programs, than the direct effect of the tax cuts themselves. Alternatively, the tax cuts could be financed by a 34-percent increase in payroll taxes or by more than doubling the tax on corporations.

If the Bush White House hadn't been ideologically driven toward high-end tax cuts, it might have taken some important steps with the money instead. Rather than cutting taxes primarily for wealthy families, we could have financed substantial aid to the states, which would have obviated the need for recession-driven tuition increases and spending cutbacks. We could have invested heavily in children, for example, by fully funding Head Start. We could have provided more progressive tax cuts. Or we could have done all three -- and still had money left over to reduce the deficit.

We also could have averted the coming crisis in Social Security. Over the next 75 years, the tax cuts will cost about three times the projected 75-year actuarial deficit in Social Security. As a result, even if we had not enacted only the most regressive components of the tax cuts, we would have had more than enough revenue to eliminate the entire Social Security deficit for the next 75 years. That wouldn't necessarily be the best course, given the competing needs for revenue, but it does dramatically illustrate the lost opportunities. It also underscores why Alan Greenspan's proposal to pay for the tax cuts with reduced Social Security benefits will never add up: Have you ever tried to save $3 from $1?

The president likes to portray his tax cuts as painless and simply "giving people their money back." Tens of millions of people, however, gain little from the tax cuts -- and will eventually be hurt by the costs imposed on the budget and the economy.

For now, too many policy-makers are pretending that the tax cuts represent that ever-elusive free lunch. The reality is that the bill from the tax cuts will come due one way or another. And almost any way it plays out -- other than simply repealing the tax cuts or allowing them to expire as officially scheduled -- the vast majority of Americans will pay.


More reading
Fact check article

washington post article
CBPP article
 

Did you take a lesson on how to dodge the question? Once again you ask a Kerry supp. a question about Kerry and they tell you what Bush did wrong.

Go figure.:confused:
 
I know where all the Kerry supporter's went - and why they're dodging this question - (kerry is manning the ship btw)


:space:
 
Kerry's Plan for middle Americans

A Plan To Strengthen The Middle Class
In America, anyone who works hard, lives responsibly, and does right by their family and their country - anyone who does the best with what they've got - should be rewarded with the opportunity to build a better life for themselves and their families. That principle is what has made the American middle class the greatest engine of economic strength the world has ever known - and it's the heart of John Kerry and John Edwards' vision for a stronger America.

Today, American families - pinched by sagging wages and rising costs - are feeling the middle class squeeze. Today, the cost of raising a middle-class child until age 18 in America exceeds $200,000 - and that doesn't include the cost of college. Families with children are especially hard hit by rising costs in everything from health insurance premiums, college tuition, and energy use. At the same time, median family income has dropped by nearly $1,500 since 2000.

John Kerry and John Edwards will work to expand and strengthen America's middle class like never before. They will (1) cut middle class taxes, (2) cuts costs in everything from health care to education to gas, (3) close the pay gap between men and women, (4) raise the minimum wage, and (5) help all Americans balance the competing demands of work and family.


Cut Middle-Class Taxes to Raise Middle-Class Incomes
John Kerry Will Cut Taxes for 98 Percent of American Families and 99 Percent of Businesses. In addition, he will:

Propose At Least $250 Billion In Tax Cuts For Health Care, Child Care, and Education - Without Increasing the Deficit By One Dime. As president, John Kerry will close corporate tax loopholes and use some of the money gained from repealing Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans - families making over $200,000 a year - to pay for tax credits without increasing the deficit by one dime. The Kerry-Edwards tax cuts include:

A tax credit on up to $4,000 of college tuition
A tax credit to help small businesses and vulnerable workers pay for health care and buy into John Kerry's new Congressional Health Plan.
A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses
Create a New Jobs Tax Credit. Research has demonstrated that new jobs tax credits increase employment. The Kerry-Edwards New Jobs Tax Credit will cover an employer's share of payroll taxes for net new jobs created in manufacturing, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small businesses. The credit will be available in 2005 and 2006. For example: a medium-sized manufacturing company employs 1,000 workers. If this company hires an additional 100 employees at $40,000 each - bringing the total number of employees to 1,100 - it would receive a tax cut of 3,060 per worker, or $306,000 total. This would roughly offset the additional cost of health care premiums, which have risen about $2,700 under President Bush.


Cut Costs for Middle-Class Families
John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Cut Health Care Premiums By Up To $1,000. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, employers will benefit from offering their employees quality care with choices. By helping out with certain high-cost cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will cut premiums by up to $1,000 per year for America's families.

Lower Energy Prices. By investing in new energy sources and technologies, John Kerry and John Edwards will help America move toward energy independence while lowering costs, spurring job growth, and protecting our environment.

Cut Tuition Costs. Average tuition and fees at public four-year colleges increased by 35 percent over the last four years. Because of tuition increases, an estimated 220,000 young people could not afford to enroll in four-year public universities last year. As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax Credit on $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer $10 billion in fiscal relief to states that restrain tuition growth. And he will launch a new National Service Plan that will allow young people to pay for college by serving their country.

Affordable Housing. John Kerry has a long history of working to make housing more affordable and increase homeownership for all Americans. As president, he will continue to fight for affordable housing. Read John Kerry's Housing Record


Ensure Equal Pay for Men and Women
On average, women still earn only 77 cents for every dollar earned by men. John Kerry and John Edwards believe that we must make equal pay for equal work a reality, not a slogan. They will ensure greater transparency and fairness by improving enforcement and disclosure about companies' payment practices.


Raise the Minimum Wage
Today, the minimum wage is currently worth only 33 percent of average American wages - its lowest level since 1949. John Kerry and John Edwards understand that today's eroded wage no longer meet the needs of American families. As president, John Kerry will increase the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.00 by 2007. That will give 7 million Americans a raise, and help millions of families pay for basic needs like education, food and health care. With this increase, parents working full-time will not have to raise their children in poverty.


Help All Americans Balance Work and Family
Today, more parents are working longer hours and fewer parents are at home full-time than ever before. Yet today, high-quality child care costs more than tuition at a public university. John Kerry and John Edwards will put the government on the side of families that work hard to get ahead. They will increase the child care tax credit and make it partially refundable to moderate-income families for the first time ever, while also expanding after-school programs to serve 3.5 million children and keep schools open until 6 pm. As president, John Kerry will also expand the Family and Medical Leave Act.
 
Someone asked how John Kerry intends to fund his plans.


Here is a link to an explanation of all of that. (pdf)

Kerrys economic plan

This plan is better than GW's "spend now, let someone else pay later- that is anyone but my super rich corporate friends" plan.
 
Just a paragraph from Andrew Sullivan's (surely all you right wingers know Andrew Sullivan from THE NEW REPUBLIC) indictment of George Bush (and endorsement of John Kerry.)


He says about Bush:
"Domestically, the record is horrifying for a fiscal conservative. Ronald Reagan raised taxes in his first term when he had to; and he didn't have September 11 to contend with. Ronald Reagan also cut domestic spending. Bush has been unable to muster the conservative courage to do either. He has spent like a drunken liberal Democrat. He has failed to grapple with entitlement reform, as he once promised. He has larded up the tax code with endless breaks for corporate special interests; pork has metastasized; and he has tainted the cause of tax relief by concentrating too much of it on the wealthy. He has made the future boomer fiscal crunch far more acute by adding a hugely expensive new Medicare prescription drug entitlement. "

Oh, there's lots more and you can find it here.
:http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=qFFINfAm4eR7PMnY1tkQ2m==
 
Originally posted by denisenh
Kerry's Plan for middle Americans

Cut Tuition Costs. Average tuition and fees at public four-year colleges increased by 35 percent over the last four years. Because of tuition increases, an estimated 220,000 young people could not afford to enroll in four-year public universities last year. As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax Credit on $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer $10 billion in fiscal relief to states that restrain tuition growth. And he will launch a new National Service Plan that will allow young people to pay for college by serving their country.


Serving their country!!!????? Hmmmm... What does that sound like? :smooth:

I actually like the tuition stuff. Not enough to vote for him, though. But, eliminate the draft requirement :smooth:

Affordable Housing. John Kerry has a long history of working to make housing more affordable and increase homeownership for all Americans. As president, he will continue to fight for affordable housing. Read John Kerry's Housing Record

That sounds pretty vague. What are the details. He will just demand it?


Raise the Minimum Wage
Today, the minimum wage is currently worth only 33 percent of average American wages - its lowest level since 1949. John Kerry and John Edwards understand that today's eroded wage no longer meet the needs of American families. As president, John Kerry will increase the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.00 by 2007. That will give 7 million Americans a raise, and help millions of families pay for basic needs like education, food and health care. With this increase, parents working full-time will not have to raise their children in poverty.


And the business will pass the savings on you in increased costs. But why stop at $7.00? Can anyone really call $7.00/hr a "lving wage". I thought he cared? Why not make it $100/hr?


Help All Americans Balance Work and Family
Today, more parents are working longer hours and fewer parents are at home full-time than ever before. Yet today, high-quality child care costs more than tuition at a public university. John Kerry and John Edwards will put the government on the side of families that work hard to get ahead. They will increase the child care tax credit and make it partially refundable to moderate-income families for the first time ever, while also expanding after-school programs to serve 3.5 million children and keep schools open until 6 pm. As president, John Kerry will also expand the Family and Medical Leave Act.
 
Originally posted by crazyforgoofy
Just a paragraph from Andrew Sullivan's (surely all you right wingers know Andrew Sullivan from THE NEW REPUBLIC) indictment of George Bush (and endorsement of John Kerry.)


He says about Bush:
"Domestically, the record is horrifying for a fiscal conservative. Ronald Reagan raised taxes in his first term when he had to; and he didn't have September 11 to contend with. Ronald Reagan also cut domestic spending. Bush has been unable to muster the conservative courage to do either. He has spent like a drunken liberal Democrat. He has failed to grapple with entitlement reform, as he once promised. He has larded up the tax code with endless breaks for corporate special interests; pork has metastasized; and he has tainted the cause of tax relief by concentrating too much of it on the wealthy. He has made the future boomer fiscal crunch far more acute by adding a hugely expensive new Medicare prescription drug entitlement. "

Oh, there's lots more and you can find it here.
:http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=qFFINfAm4eR7PMnY1tkQ2m==

I completely agree with the spending argument. But, again, not a strong enough case to vote for Kerry, because under Kerry it will be far worse. Couple that with Kerry's projected utter incompetence in handling the GWOT and there is no compelling case for Kerry in my mind.
 
Just for the record, according to the Census Bureau, median family income increased by $500 from 2000 to 2002 (they do not display data beyond that on their website). Unless it dropped at unprecedented levels in 2003, a $1500 drop in median family income is inaccurate.
 
Originally posted by denisenh
Kerry's Plan for middle Americans

A Plan To Strengthen The Middle Class
In America, anyone who works hard, lives responsibly, and does right by their family and their country - anyone who does the best with what they've got - should be rewarded with the opportunity to build a better life for themselves and their families. That principle is what has made the American middle class the greatest engine of economic strength the world has ever known - and it's the heart of John Kerry and John Edwards' vision for a stronger America.

Today, American families - pinched by sagging wages and rising costs - are feeling the middle class squeeze. Today, the cost of raising a middle-class child until age 18 in America exceeds $200,000 - and that doesn't include the cost of college. Families with children are especially hard hit by rising costs in everything from health insurance premiums, college tuition, and energy use. At the same time, median family income has dropped by nearly $1,500 since 2000.

John Kerry and John Edwards will work to expand and strengthen America's middle class like never before. They will (1) cut middle class taxes, (2) cuts costs in everything from health care to education to gas, (3) close the pay gap between men and women, (4) raise the minimum wage, and (5) help all Americans balance the competing demands of work and family.


Cut Middle-Class Taxes to Raise Middle-Class Incomes
John Kerry Will Cut Taxes for 98 Percent of American Families and 99 Percent of Businesses. In addition, he will:

Propose At Least $250 Billion In Tax Cuts For Health Care, Child Care, and Education - Without Increasing the Deficit By One Dime. As president, John Kerry will close corporate tax loopholes and use some of the money gained from repealing Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans - families making over $200,000 a year - to pay for tax credits without increasing the deficit by one dime. The Kerry-Edwards tax cuts include:

A tax credit on up to $4,000 of college tuition
A tax credit to help small businesses and vulnerable workers pay for health care and buy into John Kerry's new Congressional Health Plan.

no kids in college here


A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses
Create a New Jobs Tax Credit. Research has demonstrated that new jobs tax credits increase employment. The Kerry-Edwards New Jobs Tax Credit will cover an employer's share of payroll taxes for net new jobs created in manufacturing, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small businesses. The credit will be available in 2005 and 2006. For example: a medium-sized manufacturing company employs 1,000 workers. If this company hires an additional 100 employees at $40,000 each - bringing the total number of employees to 1,100 - it would receive a tax cut of 3,060 per worker, or $306,000 total. This would roughly offset the additional cost of health care premiums, which have risen about $2,700 under President Bush.

I don't use child care

Cut Costs for Middle-Class Families
John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Cut Health Care Premiums By Up To $1,000. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, employers will benefit from offering their employees quality care with choices. By helping out with certain high-cost cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will cut premiums by up to $1,000 per year for America's families.

This then will be a choice made by my employer, not mandated by law

Lower Energy Prices. By investing in new energy sources and technologies, John Kerry and John Edwards will help America move toward energy independence while lowering costs, spurring job growth, and protecting our environment.

Not anything immediate if at all

Cut Tuition Costs. Average tuition and fees at public four-year colleges increased by 35 percent over the last four years. Because of tuition increases, an estimated 220,000 young people could not afford to enroll in four-year public universities last year. As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax Credit on $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer $10 billion in fiscal relief to states that restrain tuition growth. And he will launch a new National Service Plan that will allow young people to pay for college by serving their country.

Affordable Housing. John Kerry has a long history of working to make housing more affordable and increase homeownership for all Americans. As president, he will continue to fight for affordable housing. Read John Kerry's Housing Record

I have a house and since GWB has been in office mortgage rates have fallen so housing is much more affordable. How does he plan to make it more so???


Ensure Equal Pay for Men and Women
On average, women still earn only 77 cents for every dollar earned by men. John Kerry and John Edwards believe that we must make equal pay for equal work a reality, not a slogan. They will ensure greater transparency and fairness by improving enforcement and disclosure about companies' payment practices.

I don't work, I'm disabled....again, it doesn't help us


Raise the Minimum Wage
Today, the minimum wage is currently worth only 33 percent of average American wages - its lowest level since 1949. John Kerry and John Edwards understand that today's eroded wage no longer meet the needs of American families. As president, John Kerry will increase the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.00 by 2007. That will give 7 million Americans a raise, and help millions of families pay for basic needs like education, food and health care. With this increase, parents working full-time will not have to raise their children in poverty.

see above


Help All Americans Balance Work and Family
Today, more parents are working longer hours and fewer parents are at home full-time than ever before. Yet today, high-quality child care costs more than tuition at a public university. John Kerry and John Edwards will put the government on the side of families that work hard to get ahead. They will increase the child care tax credit and make it partially refundable to moderate-income families for the first time ever, while also expanding after-school programs to serve 3.5 million children and keep schools open until 6 pm. As president, John Kerry will also expand the Family and Medical Leave Act.



So, as you can see by my comments in red Kerry will do nothing for this middle class family!
 
Maybe someone should go to Kerry supporter's thread and write this post. Then see what their answer is, or maybe the big guns aren't home from work yet. When they do see this they will TRY and come back with some new figures and articles to back it up. They will also turn it around and blame Bush for something.

I know where all the Kerry supporter's went - and why they're dodging this question - (kerry is manning the ship btw)

Give them time and they will come. They are just trying to figure out their method of attack. Their busy looking for some web sights to post. ("The real figures")

How do you get a Kerry supporter to be quiet?


Ask them an intelligent question about Kerry and his plan.

I'm really shocked there are no responses. Please tell me they aren't reading this thread. They pop up in the Bush supp. thread so I'm sure they are here to. We could start naming names to see if it draws them out.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

did you ever think this kind of attitude is what is preventing people from posting here? what is the point of having an intelligent debate with people who say such things and who are just going to write you off no matter how you back up your argument just because you disagree with them?

seriously.
 
Originally posted by caitycaity
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

did you ever think this kind of attitude is what is preventing people from posting here? what is the point of having an intelligent debate with people who say such things and who are just going to write you off no matter how you back up your argument just because you disagree with them?

seriously.

Point, caitycaity!
 
What is preventing you from coming to this thread is an answer to the question.

We joked around when none of you were here. If you would have answered the question we wouldn't have responded in that manner. I was just joking around with you.

phorsenuf - I agree - we have no one in college
we don't use child care
I don't work (female) - I do the childcare
Our mortgage rate can't get any lower

so therefore Kerry will do nothing for this middle class family either.
 
Actually what was preventing me from responding to this thread is the enjoyment of watching you guys get all in a tizzy because no one was responding.

It was like spastic sharks circling the tank. I'm kind of disappointed Denise posted. Most of us are avoiding posting to these threads not because of a lack of an answer, but more because it's a waste of time. Why waste the effort in a thoughtful response to a question when it's just going to get attacked and written off?
 
Oh yeah...I forgot (;) ) I already have a child in the military that will help him pay for his education! LOL
Although, they have already trained him in a great career (MP) he can use when he chooses to retire from the military.
 


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