Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis found in contempt, going to jail

[sam_gordon]

No question in my mind that if this woman thinks she is going to keep her job, use it as a pulpit for her religious beliefs, as an officer of the government, and get paid for refusing to to the duties required of her....

Whackadoodle....

I don't for one second think she thought she'd be able to keep her job and everything would just die down. I think she disagreed with the SC ruling, consulted legal experts, and made a decision on how she can get her point across. She's standing behind her decision which is more than most people do.

 

[Christine]

But liberals certainly feel it's fine to FORCE their beliefs on everyone. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Many liberals do not believe in same-sex marriage. Please don't use "talking points" from inflammatory sources and use them to hide the real situation.

A law was passed. You personally may not agree with that law for religious reasons but you cannot use your beliefs to oppress people or deny them legal and human rights. No one is forcing this woman into a marriage. But she is a public servant and you must uphold the laws of our country in your duty as a public servant. I am a public servant for an agency that is involved in things I don't agree with all of the time. But I chose that job and I chose to support it no matter what. I do not get the choice to say I'm going to be an obstructionist and do everything in my power to stop the ball rolling on things I don't like. If it ever gets to that point that my job conflicts so much with my moral beliefs, I will resign, not make it about me.

I see that this bothers you because of what you probably believe but try to take a step back and look at it from an objective, legal standpoint.

Think of others' beliefs that you don't agree with and would you like them to affect you. There are religions that don't believe in many invasive medical treatments. Would you like to be rushed to the ER in the middle of the night and come across the one ER employee who doesn't believe in a certain medical procedure that you desperately need? You would say that this employee should not be working in a hospital, correct? Extreme example, but it is the same thing.

 

[CdnCarrie]

/ I applaud her standing firm in her beliefs. I think it wrong for her to be arrested.

I thought America was based on the separation of church and state. Isn't religion not suppose to play a role in government?

 

[porschegrl]

You know, that brings up an interesting question. If her clerks wanted to issue the marriage licenses as per law and she was demanding they break the law, could her clerks ignore her and perform their jobs according to law?

I mean really, say I worked at the clerks office and a gay couple came up asking for a marriage license and they met all the legal requirements to get one. If my boss says "no, you can't do it, it goes against my beliefs" she is in effect demanding that I violate the law and several court orders. Would I be within my rights to ignore my boss' instructions and follow the law?

That is a good question. She selfishly put her whole staff in a no-win situation.

 

[MickeySP]

/ I applaud her standing firm in her beliefs. I think it wrong for her to be arrested.

While I think she has a right to stand by her beliefs, she is a public employee and as such she must uphold the laws as passed. Resign, ask to transferred to a non-public post( I understand she was elected I am speaking in general) but if you are a public official you must abide by the will of the law.

I don't agree with her & on a personal note seems she kinda picks & chooses what part of religious convictions she upholds. Homosexuality - uphold her bible, but Adultery, not so much.
Kinda like being a Easter & Christmas Catholic.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't agree with her & on a personal note seems she kinda picks & chooses what part of religious convictions she upholds. Homosexuality - uphold her bible, but Adultery, not so much.
Kinda like being a Easter & Christmas Catholic.

As I understand it, her "faith" didn't come about until after her divorces and affair. I don't think it's fair to criticize her for something that happened before she "got saved".

 

[MickeySP]

As I understand it, her "faith" didn't come about until after her divorces and affair. I don't think it's fair to criticize her for something that happened before she "got saved".

I will not debate religion since that is not allowed I just call hypocrisy

 

[sam_gordon]

I will not debate religion since that is not allowed I just call hypocrisy

I'm not trying to debate religion. I feel people have the freedom to change their minds on what they believe. I don't think it's fair to say "well, here's what you believed in 2005, so you have to still believe it in 2015".

 

[dinolounger]

The irony in this situation that everyone here has missed is that demand for same-sex marriage licenses in her jurisdiction has apparently been....zero.

Which is not surprising, rural Kentucky isn't on way up on the list of areas with large concentrations of gays.

So while her public evisceration is apparently providing great symbolic benefit to some, it is (at least presently) having no material impact on anyone, because no one's rights have yet been violated (and at this point never will be). That's not excusing her for being called out for not performing her job, but is making me chuckle at some here who vicariously think winning cultural wars is all about symbolic actions.

 

[Turn the Page]

The irony in this situation that everyone here has missed is that demand for same-sex marriage licenses in her jurisdiction has apparently been....zero.

Which is not surprising, rural Kentucky isn't on way up on the list of areas with large concentrations of gays.

So while her public evisceration is apparently providing great symbolic benefit to some, it is (at least presently) having no material impact on anyone, because no one's rights have yet been violated (and at this point never will be). That's not excusing her for being called out for not performing her job, but is making me chuckle at some here who vicariously think winning cultural wars is all about symbolic actions.

If I understood the situation correctly she stopped issuing all marriage licences. Not just for gay couples. And I think there were reports of her refusing to issue marriage licenses to gay couples specifically. While it may not be many it's not zero either.

 

[DanaLynn07]

The irony in this situation that everyone here has missed is that demand for same-sex marriage licenses in her jurisdiction has apparently been....zero.

Which is not surprising, rural Kentucky isn't on way up on the list of areas with large concentrations of gays.

So while her public evisceration is apparently providing great symbolic benefit to some, it is (at least presently) having no material impact on anyone, because no one's rights have yet been violated (and at this point never will be). That's not excusing her for being called out for not performing her job, but is making me chuckle at some here who vicariously think winning cultural wars is all about symbolic actions.

This isn't true. There have been gay couples who were denied marriage licenses by Kim Davis. In specific one video went viral of a gay couple confronting Davis about why she would not allow marriage licenses to be issued.

 

[sam_gordon]

The irony in this situation that everyone here has missed is that demand for same-sex marriage licenses in her jurisdiction has apparently been....zero.

Which is not surprising, rural Kentucky isn't on way up on the list of areas with large concentrations of gays.

So while her public evisceration is apparently providing great symbolic benefit to some, it is (at least presently) having no material impact on anyone, because no one's rights have yet been violated (and at this point never will be). That's not excusing her for being called out for not performing her job, but is making me chuckle at some here who vicariously think winning cultural wars is all about symbolic actions.

As mentioned, she decided to stop issuing ALL marriage licenses. Once that word got out, homosexual couples traveled to Rowan County to apply for a license. So yes, she HAS turned down requests from homosexual couples, as well as heterosexual couples.

 

[Beezle2]

But liberals certainly feel it's fine to FORCE their beliefs on everyone. Hypocrisy at its finest.

>>>

Why would you assume it's a 'liberal" thing? I'm not a liberal and I think she was wrong. She is an elected official who is not doing the job she is getting paid for AND she is breaking the law.

 

[mnrose]

This has NOTHING to do with religion, except that's her proffered excuse for not following the law. ANYONE, regardless of religion (or lack thereof) who refuses to do the duties of their position AND further refuses to follow a Court's order, is going to be jailed for contempt. She was not jailed for her religious beliefs. She was jailed for being in contempt of a court order.

I respect her right to hold whatever views she wants in her PRIVATE religion. I respect that she believes she is unable because of those beliefs to do certain duties of her position. The proper course of action under those conditions, if her beliefs are strongly held and immovable, is to resign. It is NOT to hold hostage other citizens ability to exercise their (100% lawful) rights.

 

[DanaLynn07]

As mentioned, she decided to stop issuing ALL marriage licenses. Once that word got out, homosexual couples traveled to Rowan County to apply for a license. So yes, she HAS turned down requests from homosexual couples, as well as heterosexual couples.

This is also not true. David V. Moore and his partner who live in Morehead Kentucky, which I'm pretty sure is in Rowan county were denied a marriage license by Kim Davis. Here is his very open Facebook page where he discusses the issue

https://www.facebook.com/david.v.moore.7?fref=nf

 

[mnrose]

You can't have this discussion without mentioning religion. That is the only reason anyone knows her name.

She can believe whatever she wants, but when those beliefs stand in the way of performing her job duties, she needs to resign. She cannot be fired as an elected official.

This has NOTHING to do with religion though. She was not jailed for her religion. She was jailed for contempt of court.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually, it says in the Bible that we are supposed to follow the laws of the government (well, actually it says the laws of Cesear but that's what it means) so in essence she is committing a sin by not doing what the law says. If you don't agree with a law, you work to change it but in the meantime, you follow it.

BUT, as usual in these discussions, some of you do not seem to get it. Christians are NOT perfect nor are they meant to be. They are forgiven. So stop bringing the woman's personal life into it, its not fair.

She should have been removed from her job, I agree. But judging her is a bit much.

 

[bsblady01]

good. she needs to do what she is told to do or find another job.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I read an opinion article that stated that the liberty council is actually raking in quite a bit of money from various people due to this case, it is also making quite a name for itself. The author wondered if that is their motive for some of the bad advice they have given, like disobeying a court order, since it is VERY rare for legal counsel to recommend disobeying a court order.

If it can be shown that they gave her advice to disobey a court order, they could in theory be in some trouble. But to be honest, I don't think much will come of that de facto.
Call me Mr. Cynic, but I think she will soon be going on the Martyr Welfare circuit and get tons of money. Heck. That pizza place was over $400k last I looked.

 

[Kimberlyann11]

If it can be shown that they gave her advice to disobey a court order, they could in theory be in some trouble. But to be honest, I don't think much will come of that de facto.
Call me Mr. Cynic, but I think she will soon be going on the Martyr Welfare circuit and get tons of money. Heck. That pizza place was over $400k last I looked.

Yep - watch the mountains of bigot bucks come pouring in!!