Just told that 2100 Loop will be Preferred Sites

[tiggerdad]

Pull through, though nice, require more space, this equal less sites which adds up to lost revenue in Disney's eyes. The existing loop would be too small an area for this. Now there is plenty of realestate on the other side of the primitive camping area for such a thing.

I do agree that pull throughs would be nice but not where 2100 is.

 

[bama_ed]

I agree with tiggerdad.

The current camping loops (and even 2100) don't lay out well for pull through conversions. You need an oval, more or less, like a race track in the base configuration that you can cut the pull throughs in between. That's why I have agitated for a Fort expansion across the road from the Fort check-in area in the land facing Epcot. Build the pull throughs there. Charge $200 a night and people will pay as well has taking the pressure off the current Fort which would still stay pretty full.

Oh, since I would be in charge of profit and loss for this little project, I would stick it to the weekend folks even more. I would make the Friday night/Saturday night premium more like $15-20 for the privilege of coming in on those spring and fall weekends. Heck, maybe more - I'd raise it until there is one campsite unreserved each weekend. That's when you know you've maxed out the revenue potential.

Although, tiggerdad, the land past Creekside Meadow headed toward the Fort-WL road looks a little low with the cypress stumps so it might be wetlands technically speaking, meaning protected land technically speaking, meaning no building absolutely speaking. In the new rules, that's why 100-200-300 were grandfathered from being converted to Premiums way back when. I think there is a way to trade wetlands (we'll build on these wetlands if we offset an equivalent amount of wetlands) which they must be doing to be able to build out at Wilderness Lodge the cabins and DVC conversions they are doing now. But for campsite revenue, probably not.

Bama Ed

 

[Mom2aJessieGirl]

But pull-though sites would eliminate my favorite fort game--Will they/won't they hit the site marker/utility post!

 

[beagles7278]

Everyone knows that the first loop with pull-through sites will be the 3000 loop. This has been confirmed by the bus drivers on numerous occasions, as well as numerous maintenance workers.

 

[FtW Mike]

Ran this idea past our TA who specializes in Ft W and she too is hearing they are planning on turning into preferred sites. If they keep same size as Cabin sites and make friendly to pets I can see us making a request for a site here

 

[tiggerdad]

I believe, but am not certain, but as far as wetlands are concerned you are not allowed to bring fill dirt into wetlands, but you can move dirt from within the wetlands. In other words, take dirt from one location within a certain radius and deposit it somewhere else. Thus, make one place deeper, while raising another above the water level. I know it's how businesses here in Mississippi are able to build in designated wetlands and flood planes. Hurricane Katrina did cause some changes to these laws due to the coastal flooding, but not sure exactly how.

On the bright side, people could bring their houseboats to Fort Wilderness and stay in them instead...

Pull through sites are a good selling point and this is shown in a familiar place like GSP where they are down the main drag and along some parts of the canal. With longer straightaways, or at least milder curves, it is doable. I agree however, that it would cut into my entertainment as well watching people knock down electric pedestals, uproot trees, get in verbal fights with their spouses.

 

[amcc]

Often you can mitigate a wetland offsite by improving another wetland somewhere else or even (if you are a lucky developer) by paying into a wetland mitigation fund. I imagine that Disney is considered one big site under one ownership so it's possible they have already established an area where they are enhancing and improving wetlands and as they need to build on wetlands in other areas, they just expand and work on this area.

 

[PaHunter]

I agree with tiggerdad.

The current camping loops (and even 2100) don't lay out well for pull through conversions. You need an oval, more or less, like a race track in the base configuration that you can cut the pull throughs in between. That's why I have agitated for a Fort expansion across the road from the Fort check-in area in the land facing Epcot. Build the pull throughs there. Charge $200 a night and people will pay as well has taking the pressure off the current Fort which would still stay pretty full.

Oh, since I would be in charge of profit and loss for this little project, I would stick it to the weekend folks even more. I would make the Friday night/Saturday night premium more like $15-20 for the privilege of coming in on those spring and fall weekends. Heck, maybe more - I'd raise it until there is one campsite unreserved each weekend. That's when you know you've maxed out the revenue potential.

Although, tiggerdad, the land past Creekside Meadow headed toward the Fort-WL road looks a little low with the cypress stumps so it might be wetlands technically speaking, meaning protected land technically speaking, meaning no building absolutely speaking. In the new rules, that's why 100-200-300 were grandfathered from being converted to Premiums way back when. I think there is a way to trade wetlands (we'll build on these wetlands if we offset an equivalent amount of wetlands) which they must be doing to be able to build out at Wilderness Lodge the cabins and DVC conversions they are doing now. But for campsite revenue, probably not.

Bama Ed

There is a way to trade off the wetland areas, they did so in order to build the new Star Wars area at DHS. All the land is divided into 3 areas, developed, undeveloped and conservation or something like that. All three must remain in equal parts, so with all this expansion they are beginning to get really tight on space that is available to build on without buying up more property(wetland).

 

[AndrewJackson]

If you go way, way, back, loop 2100 didn't exist when the Fort opened. The first couple of years it was only 6 or 7 loops. They quickly added several loops and ran loops 100 - 1900 for a few years. 2000 and 2100 were added a few years later (78 or 79, maybe?) , then the wilderness homes loops, that later were converted to wilderness cabins.

I remember arriving with my parents and siblings and praying that we did not end up in 2000 or 2100. The beach and marina were the hub of the Fort. There was no pool, and you could still swim in the lake. The Settlement Trading Post had soft serve ice cream and a deli. There was only the Magic Kingdom. Everybody was heading to the north end of the Fort for something. The idea of being stuck in 2000 or 2100, and on the opposite of the campground was not where we wanted to be.

With that said, if the rumor is true that they are going to convert the loop back to campgrounds, maybe they will convert is to full and not preferred.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

With that said, if the rumor is true that they are going to convert the loop back to campgrounds, maybe they will convert is to full and not preferred

1) No such luck.
2) The idea is to make more-and-more expensive sites.
. . . other than tent or primitive-tent sites, FW wants more of the expensive sites
. . . the only way to do so is to convert some cabins and re-designate others
3) For the most part, people will not know the difference and just accept the cost.
4) As for pull-through sites, FW does not want to create any more of them, and wants to discontinue existing ones
. . . they take lots of room, and can usually be made into two normal sites
. . . the (not so comical) saying is, "It you have an RV, you should know how to park it."

NOTE: In 2004, in order to make more profit, Wilderness Lodge re-designated MOST of "Standard View" rooms to "Woods View" rooms. There were no actual changes to the room, just the designation. This increased the per-night room rates (and, thus, profit). People did not know or notice the difference, and simply paid the higher rates because the rooms were perceived as better than "Standard".

 

[bama_ed]

Scupper,

What that tells me is if Disney management makes 2100 a camping loop and Preferred at that, then in the vein above as you showed at Wilderness Lodge, they'll declare loops 1600-1900 as "Preferred" also and eliminate the "Full" designation, raising their rates to the current Preferred level. Thus the definition of "Preferred" will morph yet again to mean "not-a-Tent-site-and-not-a-Premium-site-but-the-site-level-between-the-two".

This "charge more/offer less" approach all over the property is starting to pit me off.

Bama Ed

 

[TheRustyScupper]

they'll declare loops 1600-1900 as "Preferred" also and eliminate the "Full" designation, raising their rates to the current Preferred level. Thus the definition of "Preferred" will morph yet again to mean "not-a-Tent-site-and-not-a-Premium-site-but-the-site-level-between-the-two".

1) Pretty much on-target.
2) The fewer room/site designations, the more one can charge.
3) No more cheaper rooms or sites, except for tent sites at FW.
. . . you can see this at other resorts, where the different room classifications have been reduced
. . . it is strange, but the higher-priced classifications seemed to absorb the cheaper classifications
. . . it must be just a coincidence
4) Business-wise, it is good.
5) Customer-wise (guest-wise), it is not.

 

[Corgidad]

, FW does not want to create any more of them, and wants to discontinue existing ones
Rusty could you tell us where the pull thru sites are that the Fort wants to discontinue . I can't recall seeing any pull they sites at the Fort now. I do know that a long time ago they had a few pull thru sites that were an experiment but that never materialized.

 

[Mom2aJessieGirl]

, FW does not want to create any more of them, and wants to discontinue existing ones
Rusty could you tell us where the pull thru sites are that the Fort wants to discontinue . I can't recall seeing any pull they sites at the Fort now. I do know that a long time ago they had a few pull thru sites that were an experiment but that never materialized.

I was under the impression that there were two in the 1200 loop, but they've since been blocked off. I didn't know any were left.

 

[peg110]

Oh, since I would be in charge of profit and loss for this little project, I would stick it to the weekend folks even more. I would make the Friday night/Saturday night premium more like $15-20 for the privilege of coming in on those spring and fall weekends. Heck, maybe more - I'd raise it until there is one campsite unreserved each weekend. That's when you know you've maxed out the revenue potential.

What they SHOULD do is make the rates much like the Tickets. For those that stay for the "Weekend" only charge higher, but the more days you stay the cheaper your rate. Of course they would have to factor in the "Seasonal" rate as well. So if you stay only Friday and Saturday Your rate might be (average) $100/day but if you stay Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, your rate might be (average) $78/day (or something along those lines). If you stay 10 days, maybe you could get your rate down to $60/day. I think this will help increase profits, reduce the amount of people paying for the 1 day stay with no intention of staying, just to get FP+ (or similar).

. People did not know or notice the difference, and simply paid the higher rates because the rooms were perceived as better than "Standard".

P.T Barnum said it best! This is just proof of it.

On the 2100 loop conversion front, since it seems it's not really a "Preferred" location (compared to others) then it sounds like there needs to be a NEW designation. Change all the current preferred sites to "Preferred+" (A step above preferred and a step below Premium), and the make the 2100 loop (and similar) preferred. Jack the prices of the new Preferred+ to match the new designation. Increase profits all around people are none the wiser! (Yeah right!)

Again, it's all about separating you from your money. Right?

 

[Corgidad]

Okay was told by a pretty reliable source that as of today the 2100 loop will be a Full-Hookup Loop when converted. Of course like anything else Disney that is subject to change. I knew if I kept digging I just might find out something. If I hear different I will post again.

 

[bama_ed]

That makes a WHOLE lot more sense, Mike. Bama Ed

 

[tiggerdad]

Agreed, Full Hookup is what I figured it would be. Good digging

 

[bama_ed]

A parallel post of mine from the March 2016 trip report just to keep things related to loop 2100 together.

During the bike ride DD and I coasted out of 1100 along the Comfort Station sidewalk and into 2100 to check out the cabin loop there. There is a thread going that it will be converted [back] to a camping loop rather than receive the cabin upgrades.

I will admit that the cabins there do look a little shabby on the exterior. Mainly the decks are worn, faded, warping, and/or scuffed up. But one cabin (site 2107) was missing so it was just a concrete slab. And that's when it hit me.



Anybody else see it? On the right hand side of the slab? It's the trusty old utility log. I opened up the flap and it has been emptied out except for the 50A and 30A plugs.



Here is the cabin next to it, 2109. There is the utility log with a hose right there.



Do the other cabin loops have utility logs too? The answer was a short bike ride over in 2200. And the answer is no, they don't. They have a wooden post for the hose but not a log.



So the presence of the utility log means that these were camping sites at one time in 2100. Heck they could be refitted and serve the new camping 2100 loop (as a Full loop, mind you).

Bama Ed