Just returned from Fantasy today

[Snowwhyt]

Why would people in shorts bug you? They make it clear that Formal night is just a suggestion and completely optional. Cruise lines still do that for those who want nice pictures. That is why they set up all of those cameras in the lobby. If someone likes to dress up and wore nice clothing on casual nights, would that bug you too? I guess I don't get why what others wear, as long as it is not offensive, have any impact on your cruise at all.

I feel that just one day, on such a special vacation, they could have a night and restaurant for formalwear and a different restaurant for casual. If the buffet was open they could go there, but it’s not during Covid.
So my heart broke a little, the men in our group immediately said they wanted to be out of their monkey suits and wear shorts. You would think that because I said that they were so adorable and handsome that the silly notion of wearing shorts would just leave their minds. Nope, some other guy is wearing shorts so they shouldn’t have to dress up.
So few dress-up days in my lifetime to have that day that is so special where I can look around and live my fantasy. . I’ve had prom, and my wedding also my brothers wedding I don’t want to watch a live action Cinderella with half of the cast in shorts and graphic print tees. I’m on a Disney ship and want to have my magic, am I so bad for that? I’m not asking for a guy too jump out of a plane, wrangle a steer, or wear a dress.
I’m going to get flamed for this, ugh.

 

[Lilsia]

I feel that just one day, on such a special vacation, they could have a night and restaurant for formalwear and a different restaurant for casual. If the buffet was open they could go there, but it’s not during Covid.
So my heart broke a little, the men in our group immediately said they wanted to be out of their monkey suits and wear shorts. You would think that because I said that they were so adorable and handsome that the silly notion of wearing shorts would just leave their minds. Nope, some other guy is wearing shorts so they shouldn’t have to dress up.
So few dress-up days in my lifetime to have that day that is so special where I can look around and live my fantasy. . I’ve had prom, and my wedding also my brothers wedding I don’t want to watch a live action Cinderella with half of the cast in shorts and graphic print tees. I’m on a Disney ship and want to have my magic, am I so bad for that? I’m not asking for a guy too jump out of a plane, wrangle a steer, or wear a dress.
I’m going to get flamed for this, ugh.

I really understand how some people like the opportunity to dress up. I am not really one of those. And I know many have to wear nice clothes to work and don't want to on vacation. The whole dressing up on a ship for dinner is such an old fashioned concept. Many people like to travel light now with all of the fees that airlines charge. Sounds like talking to the men in your family about how important it is to you is what you should do ahead of your next cruise. I would be all for separate dining rooms for those who want to dress up but they should be able to eat in the main dining room. The problem with expecting those who don't want to dress up to just "go to the buffet" is a bit rude, IMO. Everyone pays for the cruise and they should be able to go to the main dining room if they want. Some people save for years for a cruise and might not be able to afford nicer clothing. I try not to judge why someone is wearing casual clothes. Maybe the bag with their nice outfits got lost by the airline, who knows. I don't even notice what others wear anyway in the dining room. My face is in the food. LOL

 

[scroogie]

I feel that just one day, on such a special vacation, they could have a night and restaurant for formalwear and a different restaurant for casual. If the buffet was open they could go there, but it’s not during Covid.
So my heart broke a little, the men in our group immediately said they wanted to be out of their monkey suits and wear shorts. You would think that because I said that they were so adorable and handsome that the silly notion of wearing shorts would just leave their minds. Nope, some other guy is wearing shorts so they shouldn’t have to dress up.
So few dress-up days in my lifetime to have that day that is so special where I can look around and live my fantasy. . I’ve had prom, and my wedding also my brothers wedding I don’t want to watch a live action Cinderella with half of the cast in shorts and graphic print tees. I’m on a Disney ship and want to have my magic, am I so bad for that? I’m not asking for a guy too jump out of a plane, wrangle a steer, or wear a dress.
I’m going to get flamed for this, ugh.

It goes both ways - other people shouldn't have to be reprimanded because of something you want.

 

[DisneyokwSSR]

I am one of t hose people who wore a suit to work every day up until I recently retired. The thought of having to bring fancy clothes, shoes, etc. on vacation makes my heart sink. Having said that, I do enjoy seeing those people all dressed up posing for pictures. Their families look lovely. I would suggest you do what my mother-in-law did. Before a large family anniversary cruise, she made it perfectly clear that everyone was to dress fancy for the "formal" night. No if, ands, or buts. That was the rule to make her happy (and it is best to keep her happy). Many did not want to, but everyone did it without any complaints. Everyone did look nice, and we got some great pictures out of it. I honestly have no idea in the world what other people were wearing that night. We looked too nice to be noticing other people (plus I was too busy freezing in my "fancy" dress and stumbling in my "fancy" high heels).

 

[MomOTwins]

I feel that just one day, on such a special vacation, they could have a night and restaurant for formalwear and a different restaurant for casual. If the buffet was open they could go there, but it’s not during Covid.
So my heart broke a little, the men in our group immediately said they wanted to be out of their monkey suits and wear shorts. You would think that because I said that they were so adorable and handsome that the silly notion of wearing shorts would just leave their minds. Nope, some other guy is wearing shorts so they shouldn’t have to dress up.
So few dress-up days in my lifetime to have that day that is so special where I can look around and live my fantasy. . I’ve had prom, and my wedding also my brothers wedding I don’t want to watch a live action Cinderella with half of the cast in shorts and graphic print tees. I’m on a Disney ship and want to have my magic, am I so bad for that? I’m not asking for a guy too jump out of a plane, wrangle a steer, or wear a dress.
I’m going to get flamed for this, ugh.

You can’t compare actors in a play dressing up, who are being paid to do so, with guests on their vacations, who are paying to be there and have a good time. Other guests (including it sounds like the mennin your party) aren’t part of a show for your entertainment.

 

[dad of 3 addicted to DCL]

I feel that just one day, on such a special vacation, they could have a night and restaurant for formalwear and a different restaurant for casual. If the buffet was open they could go there, but it’s not during Covid.
So my heart broke a little, the men in our group immediately said they wanted to be out of their monkey suits and wear shorts. You would think that because I said that they were so adorable and handsome that the silly notion of wearing shorts would just leave their minds. Nope, some other guy is wearing shorts so they shouldn’t have to dress up.
So few dress-up days in my lifetime to have that day that is so special where I can look around and live my fantasy. . I’ve had prom, and my wedding also my brothers wedding I don’t want to watch a live action Cinderella with half of the cast in shorts and graphic print tees. I’m on a Disney ship and want to have my magic, am I so bad for that? I’m not asking for a guy too jump out of a plane, wrangle a steer, or wear a dress.
I’m going to get flamed for this, ugh.

I hear you. While I try to abide by the 'different strokes for different folks' maxim, I'm the guy in the tux on formal night, wear one to Remy, a suit to Palo, a suit on semi-formal night and a sport coat & slacks the rest of the time. DW also dresses up. We look at every night underway as date night and go with it. Others...don't. That's cool for them, I guess. It's a preference thing and indicates more about other people's preferences, likes/dislikes, desires than mine. Whatever.

I'm lucky in that my wife & I align in our desires to dress for dinner. We're pleasantly old fashioned in that way. It seems that's the big beef in your post is that your husband & others don't align. That's unfortunate. Were you direct in telling the gents that you enjoy dressing for dinner and wished they'd do the same? There's tons of times I do things for my wife that I'd honestly rather not do, but do them for her. If not...sorry? I got nothing else.

No flames here.

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

I feel that just one day, on such a special vacation, they could have a night and restaurant for formalwear and a different restaurant for casual. If the buffet was open they could go there, but it’s not during Covid.
So my heart broke a little, the men in our group immediately said they wanted to be out of their monkey suits and wear shorts. You would think that because I said that they were so adorable and handsome that the silly notion of wearing shorts would just leave their minds. Nope, some other guy is wearing shorts so they shouldn’t have to dress up.

We have been on two cruises, and they have both been our special vacations over the last 13 years. The only time we dressed up was for the Palo dinner. Otherwise we dressed for comfort. So for me that will mean shorts, tee shirt/polo shirt and sandals. I can't stand to dress up, it makes me very uncomfortable and it is not something that I enjoy and avoid having to do it like the plague.

So as some others have said, if you like to dress up then go for it, but try not to let others who don't feel the way you do about dressing up, affect your enjoyment.

Psy

 

[Snowwhyt]

Knew I would feel flamed but went with my heart and was honest about my feelings. I understand some feel very differently than I do. And I would never say anything negative to a table that I would share a meal with that wore shorts and t-shirt while my daughter and I are in beaded gowns.

The whole dressing up on a ship for dinner is such an old fashioned concept……... Some people save for years for a cruise and might not be able to afford nicer clothing.

That’s what I love, part of that old fashion glamour. Just a little bit of my past where dressing up was exciting and something to watch. People watching was more fun in the 80’s.

I would be happy if the person just wore dress pants and an unwrinkled golf shirt. Everyone has something to wear to a wedding or funeral. You don’t have to go out and buy sequins, satin and lace. Just pick something that looks out of place at the demolition derby. My bar is not that high, but I do have a bar I guess.
I don’t want you to feel like I’m picking on you, I understand how and why you feel like this. I just don’t feel that way. You feel maybe annoyed by having to dress up, I feel excited to see great looking men and beautiful dresses around me. But I love the walking art gallery around me, Beautiful hair, flawless make up or exciting eye shadows, sparkly shoes, or the most awesome color blue dress. And when I see a man button or unbutton his jacket, slip his hand in his pocket as he slides his jacket back. I smile, it’s intoxicating.

New York City used to have the Easter parade. Big hats, fancy dogs, outfits that were on point. When I was the tiniest little girl I’d watched a movie on TV that I can’t remember the name of with Judy Garland I think and it was amazing.

It goes both ways - other people shouldn't have to be reprimanded because of something you want.

Ouch!
I didn’t reprimand anyone, and I never would. I’m allowed to want what I want right? But they get what they want and I don’t. And I won’t, in the foreseeable future, be able to get what I want, but they should get it all and I can have my glass only half full. One formal night that people can choose to participate in if they please. I didn’t say that they should eat chicken fingers while I eat lobster. If dressing up is not something they want to do, then attend a casual attire seating and eat the same food.
If I was at a throw back dance(you pick the era) I don’t want Hip-Hop or Rap music at a retro-prom.

You can’t compare actors in a play dressing up, who are being paid to do so, with guests on their vacations, who are paying to be there and have a good time. Other guests (including it sounds like the mennin your party) aren’t part of a show for your entertainment.

Well did and I still feel I can, because I still would not want to see Cinderella on stage with half the cast dressed as Walmart shoppers. I don’t wanna watch Sesame Street open for Def Leppard. I like congruency. Apparently I should just seek therapy for my unjust desire. I’m far to inconvenient in my wishes for one meal out of 21. A pair of dress pants and a collar shirt(I don’t even care about a tie) is just way to far out. Suppose I should prepare myself for slippers and pajama pants for my daughter‘s wedding and just get over it.
This conversation just hurts. Why am I such a bad person to want this?

By the way my Dad, that doesn’t own a lot of dress clothes, took a sports jacket that’s probably 40 years old(maybe from goodwill) a black pair of pants, double wide black Athletic shoes(he doesn’t own dress shoes now that his feet have swollen so much) and I bought him a mock turtleneck to wear under the jacket. He looked so nice. If we could of had a formal picture taken I would have. But masks

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

I would be happy if the person just wore dress pants and an unwrinkled golf shirt. Everyone has something to wear to a wedding or funeral. You don’t have to go out and buy sequins, satin and lace. Just pick something that looks out of place at the demolition derby.

I don't own a pair of dress pants; dress shirt, dinner jacket or dress shoes. The last wedding I went to, I wore blue jeans and a polo shirt; same with the last funeral. When I've had to attend Church with my grandmother (who would dress up), I was always in shorts and tee shirts. Again people who know me, know what I wear and don't have issues with it.

One formal night that people can choose to participate in if they please.

Dressing up for Formal Night is optional with Disney, not a requirement. So Until Disney changes the rules and makes formal/semi-formal night formal only; then under the current rules, both parties are getting what they would prefer. You are getting to dress up and guests who don't want to dress up can still enjoy a nice dinner in the main dinning room. There is no reason why they should have to eat somewhere else, when the rules state that they can dress casual.

If I was at a throw back dance(you pick the era) I don’t want Hip-Hop or Rap music at a retro-prom.

I'll pick late 80's and I would expect to hear Hip-Hop or Rap; along with Top40; and Euro Pop from then and anything that was playing heavy on MTV at the time. Now if you are talking about from the 50's and 60's sock hop, then yes Rap would not be appropriate for the time period; but I would expect a lot of Buddy Holly, Beach Boys, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc.

And I'm not trying to flame, just trying to point out that everyone is different and one of the reasons why the dress code is what it is.

Psy

 

[Snowwhyt]

I don't own a pair of dress pants; dress shirt, dinner jacket or dress shoes. The last wedding I went to, I wore blue jeans and a polo shirt; same with the last funeral. When I've had to attend Church with my grandmother (who would dress up), I was always in shorts and tee shirts. Again people who know me, know what I wear and don't have issues with it.


Dressing up for Formal Night is optional with Disney, not a requirement. So Until Disney changes the rules and makes formal/semi-formal night formal only; then under the current rules, both parties are getting what they would prefer. You are getting to dress up and guests who don't want to dress up can still enjoy a nice dinner in the main dinning room. There is no reason why they should have to eat somewhere else, when the rules state that they can dress casual.


I'll pick late 80's and I would expect to hear Hip-Hop or Rap; along with Top40; and Euro Pop from then and anything that was playing heavy on MTV at the time. Now if you are talking about from the 50's and 60's sock hop, then yes Rap would not be appropriate for the time period; but I would expect a lot of Buddy Holly, Beach Boys, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc.

And I'm not trying to flame, just trying to point out that everyone is different and one of the reasons why the dress code is what it is.

Psy

Yes everyone is different. Except my different isn’t allowed. My happy place is unacceptable to some. Cancel culture wins again. Although jeans, shorts and a t-shirt for dinner were not allowed in Disney MDR dress code back before 2016. It was so wonderful on my 2010 through 2019 sailings. But last month I found, ugh, Covid changed the rules. Mark my words, Mickey Mouse pajama pants coming to a MDR in 2030. I mean people should be comfortable on their cruise right? Be able to come right from the pool to dinner with a wet swimsuit and a towel? I’m sure 20 years ago cruisers never thought jeans would be allowed in MDR’s.

I got to cool off and go outside to feed my dinosaur. Pebbles and Bam Bam aren’t back yet with the rocks I needed to put in my head.
Trying to be funny here and not so cranky.

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

Yes everyone is different. Except my different isn’t allowed. My happy place is unacceptable to some. Cancel culture wins again. Although jeans, shorts and a t-shirt for dinner were not allowed in Disney MDR dress code back before 2016. It was so wonderful on my 2010 through 2019 sailings. But last month I found, ugh, Covid changed the rules. Mark my words, Mickey Mouse pajama pants coming to a MDR in 2030. I mean people should be comfortable on their cruise right? Be able to come right from the pool to dinner with a wet swimsuit and a towel? I’m sure 20 years ago cruisers never thought jeans would be allowed in MDR’s.

I got to cool off and go outside to feed my dinosaur. Pebbles and Bam Bam aren’t back yet with the rocks I needed to put in my head.
Trying to be funny here and not so cranky.

I don't see you as being cranky

I see it as everyone's different is allowed (within reason, i.e. no bathing suits). People can dress formal or casual mattering on their choice, since that is how the dress code reads for the MDR's except for Remy and Palo. You just prefer to have everyone dress formally on a formal night that still allows people to dress cruise casual. Just because everyone doesn't want to dress in formal clothes, doesn't mean that Cancel Culture caused this. Times have changed for the cruising industry and Disney has changed with it. They just understand that not everyone wants to dress up.

I wore either jeans and t-shirts or shorts and a t-shirt back on our 2011 7-night cruise, so I think even back then they allowed people to cress casual. For our European cruise in 2018 I was always shorts and a t-shirt. No one said anything to me and said that what I was wearing wasn't allowed.

Psy

 

[Kwami]

Yes everyone is different. Except my different isn’t allowed. My happy place is unacceptable to some. Cancel culture wins again. Although jeans, shorts and a t-shirt for dinner were not allowed in Disney MDR dress code back before 2016. It was so wonderful on my 2010 through 2019 sailings. But last month I found, ugh, Covid changed the rules. Mark my words, Mickey Mouse pajama pants coming to a MDR in 2030. I mean people should be comfortable on their cruise right? Be able to come right from the pool to dinner with a wet swimsuit and a towel? I’m sure 20 years ago cruisers never thought jeans would be allowed in MDR’s.

I got to cool off and go outside to feed my dinosaur. Pebbles and Bam Bam aren’t back yet with the rocks I needed to put in my head.
Trying to be funny here and not so cranky.

I don't think the rules changed because of Covid. I wore casual jeans and t-shirts to every dinner on my 2018 and 2019 cruises, too.

I don't think that your opinions and desires are invalid. I think the problem is that your ideal situation requires everyone else to conform to what you want rather than being allowed to do what they want. To be honest, I'd probably stop cruising entirely if I had to dress up for dinner. I'm willing to do it for something extra nice like Remy, but that's about it. And even then, I hate having to pack all the extra clothes and shoes and everything.

 

[Ikaikalani]

I hope they bring the SailAway party back soon!

 

[Lilsia]

Yes everyone is different. Except my different isn’t allowed. My happy place is unacceptable to some. Cancel culture wins again. Although jeans, shorts and a t-shirt for dinner were not allowed in Disney MDR dress code back before 2016. It was so wonderful on my 2010 through 2019 sailings. But last month I found, ugh, Covid changed the rules. Mark my words, Mickey Mouse pajama pants coming to a MDR in 2030. I mean people should be comfortable on their cruise right? Be able to come right from the pool to dinner with a wet swimsuit and a towel? I’m sure 20 years ago cruisers never thought jeans would be allowed in MDR’s.

I got to cool off and go outside to feed my dinosaur. Pebbles and Bam Bam aren’t back yet with the rocks I needed to put in my head.
Trying to be funny here and not so cranky.

I am sorry, but you are wrong about that. Not one person is telling you not to dress up. You are the one that is dictating to others how they should dress. And DCL does have a dress code for the dining room and I have seen it enforced. Who exactly is trying to "cancel" you? Wear whatever you want. Dress up in a ball gown every night, no one cares. But please don't think that just because you want to dress up, that others should have to too. There are cruise lines still out there that expect formal wear for dinner, I suggest that you look into those for your next cruise.

 

[lanejudy]

Yes everyone is different. Except my different isn’t allowed. My happy place is unacceptable to some.

You are perfectly justified enjoying dressing up for dinner and having a formal or semi-formal night. I think what people are saying is unreasonable is that you are basing your happiness on what other people do (or don't do). Other guests are not onboard to be your entertainment, which is why your comparison to the stage shows is inaccurate. Please try to find happiness in what you and your family do, without regards to others. You and your family shouldn't have any problem dressing up for dinner one night (or every night) if you so choose. I understand you to say that the men in your party grumbled about it -- well, maybe have a sit-down with them and let them know how important this one night is for you and that you'd really appreciate their cooperation without complaint. Your loved ones should have that respect for your request for one night.

We can't control others, only ourselves; happiness comes from within. I learned a long time ago that if I allowed my happiness to be dependent on someone else then I was never going to be truly happy.

 

[Snowwhyt]

When others are dressed in shorts and a graphic print t-shirt while I’m dressed in a formal gown I will feel uncomfortable even more now, kinda did on the Fantasy last month. Can’t say I remember more then two floor length dresses anyway. I just thought on formal day, shorts and t-shirt could be avoided. But I see it’s just not what people want. I have a transatlantic trip in May but just don’t have it in me now. I’m not going to get sleeves altered on my dress, I will feel very overdressed like I did last month, but I thought it was a Covid thing to be that casual. I’m going to try room service on formal night, haven’t had dinner in the cabin ever. Probably make it easier on me that way. This has been too stressful of a conversation for just a single meal of most 7 night trips.
I felt if everyone was dressed up on formal night I was part of the group. But absolutely someone or many in shorts will look now and say thank goodness I don’t have to wear that! And now it’s uncomfortable knowing someone feels… like that when they look at me. Disney makes me feel special, dressing different then the crowd make me feel weird. So reselling the dress so I don’t get buried in it, saving space and bringing a smaller suitcase.

I think I’m too stressed out from Covid. Because this headache is driving me nuts and I’ve had it almost two weeks. Today I even passed out in the kitchen trying to wipe down the outside of the fridge. Pretty sure it’s making me difficult here. So sorry, but I see that I could not see you point til now.

 

[kodes]

I don’t know why you would want to have room service in your stateroom during formal night or why that would make it easier on you. Dress to the nines and have a great time. Don’t let your great time be affected by what some stranger is wearing. I guarantee you, no one is letting your formalwear get to them. No one is looking at you thinking that you’ve ruined their casual, shorts-wearing nature. Trust me! Everyone is just cruising for enjoyment.

 

[Lilsia]

When others are dressed in shorts and a graphic print t-shirt while I’m dressed in a formal gown I will feel uncomfortable even more now, kinda did on the Fantasy last month. Can’t say I remember more then two floor length dresses anyway. I just thought on formal day, shorts and t-shirt could be avoided. But I see it’s just not what people want. I have a transatlantic trip in May but just don’t have it in me now. I’m not going to get sleeves altered on my dress, I will feel very overdressed like I did last month, but I thought it was a Covid thing to be that casual. I’m going to try room service on formal night, haven’t had dinner in the cabin ever. Probably make it easier on me that way. This has been too stressful of a conversation for just a single meal of most 7 night trips.
I felt if everyone was dressed up on formal night I was part of the group. But absolutely someone or many in shorts will look now and say thank goodness I don’t have to wear that! And now it’s uncomfortable knowing someone feels… like that when they look at me. Disney makes me feel special, dressing different then the crowd make me feel weird. So reselling the dress so I don’t get buried in it, saving space and bringing a smaller suitcase.

I think I’m too stressed out from Covid. Because this headache is driving me nuts and I’ve had it almost two weeks. Today I even passed out in the kitchen trying to wipe down the outside of the fridge. Pretty sure it’s making me difficult here. So sorry, but I see that I could not see you point til now.

I think that you are too concerned with other people and what they may or may not be thinking. Honestly, no one cares or even notices what others are wearing. Nobody is judging you for wearing fancier clothes and I don't understand why you feel that way. I am not trying to be rude, just realistic. This isn't junior high, where the cool kids are concerned with what others are wearing. No one cares what you wear. This is all in your head and you are giving yourself a complex for no reason. Go and wear whatever you like and enjoy yourself.

 

[Geomom]

@Snowwhyt

Wear that dress and enjoy! I do think certain cruises lend themselves to being dressier, and I would think the transatlantic would be one of them due to all the sea days and fewer children. It doesn't matter what others are wearing. Be you! You want to dress up, do it! Have a talk with your family. "Our family dresses up for formal night, other families may not, but it is important to me." I also think it's a sign of respect, to follow the suggested dress codes. We always dress up for formal and semi formal, not quite as dressy as you, but we don't feel out of place. My oldest wore her high/low prom gowns, I wore a long dress that I had from a fancy wedding. My youngest wore a dress as well and DH had a sport coat on/collared shirt and nicer pants (possibly khakis). The rest of the nights we're in jeans/shorts and graphic print tees--usually matching Disney tees. This is partly due to being on port intensive cruises, we get back in time for dinner, we don't have a couple hours to change. We will continue to bring dressy clothes for formal and semi formal, it doesn't matter what others are wearing. I honestly didn't even notice how others were dressed, I was just so happy to be there and feel like I actually' fit' the venue (Tritons/Lumiere's). Also felt great walking around the captains reception. There are so few chances to dress up these days, and if you like that, do it! Please do what makes you happy, do not worry about what others are wearing.

This reminds me that I need to find a new fancy dress before the June cruise..as I was walking to dinner last cruise, DH noticed a seam had ripped open. I hurried back to the room and used all the safety pins that I had to make the dress wearable (always bring safety pins!!!)

Sorry about the headache, if you don't have a history of them, please get it checked out.

 

[Cheburashka]

I think that you are too concerned with other people and what they may or may not be thinking.

No, the PP knows that formality only works when everyone at an event is dressed formally. That's the issue with a lack of standards. It only creates the right mood for a formal night when everyone is dressed formally. When everyone is dressed differently (some in gowns, some in shorts), that isn't a real formal event.

If you had a formal wedding, you wouldn't want a bridesmaid to wear blue jeans & baseball cap because it would spoil the effect. Same principle here.

It's unfortunate that occasional formality is disappearing from normal life. That's likely why so many people go so over the top & nuts for their weddings these days. They have no other truly formal occasions left to experience.