just curious dont want this to get out of control bathroom use

[DebbieB]

I really wasn't sure how I felt about this and then I used the bathrooms at my daughter's basketball tournament today. They were normal stalls with gaps and the doors didn't touch the ground. I definitely would not feel comfortable with men using the bathroom in that situation especially with many young girls using the bathrooms. Single-room bathrooms where only one uses it at a time would be ok. DD is 13 and she definitely said she would not feel comfortable with boys or men using the same bathroom.

I’m so confused on the topic. Do you mean biological men who now identify/look female? How would you truly know? Some women like to dress masculine but still identify female. Men who have transitioned to female, you may never guess.

Some states have passed laws that you have to use the bathroom of your biological sex. So if a female transitioned to male, would women be comfortable with him in the women’s bathroom?

This reminded me of high school in the 70’s, I avoided using the restroom because of girls smoking in the bathroom. Now they worry about who is who.

 

[leahgoogle]

I’m so confused on the topic. Do you mean biological men who now identify/look female? How would you truly know? Some women like to dress masculine but still identify female. Men who have transitioned to female, you may never guess.

Some states have passed laws that you have to use the bathroom of your biological sex. So if a female transitioned to male, would women be comfortable with him in the women’s bathroom?

This reminded me of high school in the 70’s, I avoided using the restroom because of girls smoking in the bathroom. Now they worry about who is who.

I was referring to biological males. I think that is what the original topic referred to and then it evolved.

ETA: I was mistaken. The original post did refer to transgender people, as well. Males and transgender have both been referred to in the thread.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Presumed gender isn't about how someone is dressed necessarily either. You could have very well let someone who identified as male into the bathroom due to your own bias. I say presumed gender because I would like to think more open minded about individuals.

Thank you for the lecture on presumed gender. Of all the words in my post, I had a hunch you’d grab the low-hanging fruit first. First, I didn’t “let” or “not let” anyone into the bathroom. Not sure where you got that idea. Second, if I were to assume someone who privately identified as male, but presented themselves in women’s clothing, to be a woman (standing in line for the women’s restroom) isn’t that exactly what we are told is the morally superior position to take. Are we not taught to respect someone however they present themselves to the world. And to top it off, your second sentence reads like an attempted gotcha moment. It may have been a gotcha moment, but as it turns out I’m not the one who was gotten. Is it possible, your second sentence says much more about you than it does about me?

But to tell men they can't use the men's bathroom is wow. I asked if you thought women would be okay because you're applying an extremely bad double standard here. You think it's okay for women to take over the men's bathroom but not the opposite to occur.

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. A double standard indeed. A double standard because the men and women were facing a different set of circumstances. Circumstances that were beyond their control. So again I say, yes, a very necessary double standard. Do you not think that if one group of people are enjoying a specific privilege that the other group is not capable of experiencing, that something shouldn’t be done help the group that is very clearly and obviously facing additional challenges or obstacles?

 

[starlite_]

A predator isn’t going to care. If some one wants to do something nefarious they will.

This so much.

Today I used a public bathroom. As I am a normal person, I didn't give one iota about the genitals of the other ppl in there.

Like, If someone wants to hurt you, they won't be stopped by a lil sign that has a doodle with a dress on.

I also can't believe ppl in this thread are basically accusing 13yo boys of being predators. Men aren't inherently evil just like women aren't inherently good. Some folks are living in a weird messed up fiction.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thank you for the lecture on presumed gender. Of all the words in my post, I had a hunch you’d grab the low-hanging fruit first. First, I didn’t “let” or “not let” anyone into the bathroom. Not sure where you got that idea. Second, if I were to assume someone who privately identified as male, but presented themselves in women’s clothing, to be a woman (standing in line for the women’s restroom) isn’t that exactly what we are told is the morally superior position to take. Are we not taught to respect someone however they present themselves to the world. And to top it off, your second sentence reads like an attempted gotcha moment. It may have been a gotcha moment, but as it turns out I’m not the one who was gotten. Is it possible, your second sentence says much more about you than it does about me?


Yes. Yes, yes, yes. A double standard indeed. A double standard because the men and women were facing a different set of circumstances. Circumstances that were beyond their control. So again I say, yes, a very necessary double standard. Do you not think that if one group of people are enjoying a specific privilege that the other group is not capable of experiencing, that something shouldn’t be done help the group that is very clearly and obviously facing additional challenges or obstacles?

To take it back what was being discussed was women who overtook the men's bathroom of which there were only 2 bathrooms total (one men's one women's) and then proceeded to not allow men into the men's bathroom. I disagreed with physically blocking someone (anyone) from using the bathroom in that scenario and it's also far beyond what the OP was discussing. As far as let comment that came from this "women commandeered the men’s room and prevented any men from entering" and "I actually appreciated that the women were preventing men from entering the men’s room while women were in there."

As far as your quip about me talking about open minds. When I said presumed gender it was in response to you describing blocking men from using the men's bathroom because a woman was in there. You presumed that all those in line in the women's bathroom were identifying as biologically women of which there are more perspectives than that including non-binary and so much more. For instance a person in the midst of transitioning may wish to use the women's bathroom as their preference and they may be in a dress or they may be in a suit whatever strikes their fancy but that alone does not determine their gender identity.

There aren't any different circumstances here, we're talking about blocking access to the only bathroom for men available for usage. It is unreasonable to not expect men to use the men's bathroom. I could understand giving a heads up to any one person who comes up to the men's bathroom and the reverse if this was the case but to physically block no. There's nothing inherently different about individuals using the bathroom to relieve themselves.

Coming at it from the angle of what some have spoken about just what do you think the men were going to do in the men's bathroom? Maybe use the bathroom? And if that makes you (general you) so uncomfortable don't use the men's bathroom. No nefarious intentions, no alterative motives, etc are aimed at women in the situation you described if men went to use the men's bathroom.

I'm guessing you felt a certain way about this situation because it occurred at a wedding you attended, you may have known at least some of these people personally but out and about in the public you may not see men as accommodating nor may you find all women banding together to do such action, as I said I wouldn't partake in such action and would call out such behavior.

I've also got to say it's not unheard of for some of us to describe some men in our lives who spend way more time in the bathroom than we do (I know several including my husband on average) but now we're getting into bodily functions and while we can go there I'm not sure we want that. For that you can see this thread https://www.disboards.com/threads/people--in-line-at-wdw.3933859/

 

[JLTraveling]

So for those of you who believe that "men" should use the men's room and "women" should use the women's room.....

Are you saying that he should use the women's room?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...del-to-cover-gay-times-magazine-a6870341.html

And she should use the men's room?
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/politics/sarah-mcbride-democratic-convention-speech/index.html

Or are you using some definition of male or female that's different than both what they were born with and what they have now??

 

[MillauFr]

Do you not think that if one group of people are enjoying a specific privilege that the other group is not capable of experiencing, that something shouldn’t be done help the group that is very clearly and obviously facing additional challenges or obstacles?

I just don't want to the use the bathroom at the Minneapolis Airport and end up in a stall next to someone who has a wide stance.

 

[ramee]

Is it OK to appropriate race or ethnicity, yet, or is that still taboo? I think trans is a similar situation.

There was a guy recently getting plastic surgery to have Korean features.

Alec Baldwin’s wife claimed to be from Spain and spoke in an accent but she’s from the Northeast in the States.

Rachel Dolezal. That was only 10 years ago.

Those weren’t well-received but continuing in this current direction of accepting things outside the norm, maybe in a couple years it’ll be fine.

So if you have no problems with people claiming to be the opposite gender, you support transracial people?

I’m not saying I’m for or against any of it, but those thoughts seem logical.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

To take it back what was being discussed was women who overtook the men's bathroom of which there were only 2 bathrooms total (one men's one women's) and then proceeded to not allow men into the men's bathroom. I disagreed with physically blocking someone (anyone) from using the bathroom in that scenario and it's also far beyond what the OP was discussing. As far as let comment that came from this "women commandeered the men’s room and prevented any men from entering" and "I actually appreciated that the women were preventing men from entering the men’s room while women were in there."

As far as your quip about me talking about open minds. When I said presumed gender it was in response to you describing blocking men from using the men's bathroom because a woman was in there. You presumed that all those in line in the women's bathroom were identifying as biologically women of which there are more perspectives than that including non-binary and so much more. For instance a person in the midst of transitioning may wish to use the women's bathroom as their preference and they may be in a dress or they may be in a suit whatever strikes their fancy but that alone does not determine their gender identity.

There aren't any different circumstances here, we're talking about blocking access to the only bathroom for men available for usage. It is unreasonable to not expect men to use the men's bathroom. I could understand giving a heads up to any one person who comes up to the men's bathroom and the reverse if this was the case but to physically block no. There's nothing inherently different about individuals using the bathroom to relieve themselves.

Coming at it from the angle of what some have spoken about just what do you think the men were going to do in the men's bathroom? Maybe use the bathroom? And if that makes you (general you) so uncomfortable don't use the men's bathroom. No nefarious intentions, no alterative motives, etc are aimed at women in the situation you described if men went to use the men's bathroom.

I'm guessing you felt a certain way about this situation because it occurred at a wedding you attended, you may have known at least some of these people personally but out and about in the public you may not see men as accommodating nor may you find all women banding together to do such action, as I said I wouldn't partake in such action and would call out such behavior.

I've also got to say it's not unheard of for some of us to describe some men in our lives who spend way more time in the bathroom than we do (I know several including my husband on average) but now we're getting into bodily functions and while we can go there I'm not sure we want that. For that you can see this thread https://www.disboards.com/threads/people--in-line-at-wdw.3933859/

Have I not answered every single question you’ve asked me? You apparently are uninterested in answering any of the questions I ask of you. Yet you insist on making false claims about my supposed bias against……what was it again? Oh here! I found it. You said I was biased against an imaginary trans woman (that you created out of thin air) with male genitalia (not sure how you knew that even if they were imaginary), who secretly identifies as a man, presents as a woman, while standing in line for the women’s restroom and I was in the wrong for assuming this person (who again, presents as woman, but is still a creation of your imagination) is a woman waiting to use the women’s restroom. It’s obvious to me you really enjoy typing. A lot. And I think that’s wonderful. But I’m beginning to lose interest. While I had found this conversation with you to be both mildly fascinating as well as extremely entertaining, it has become clear your only goal is to get the last word in. Even if it means typing a bunch of words while saying almost nothing of substance. Disappointing and exhausting. Please put me out of my misery and reply one more time so we can get this over with.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Is it OK to appropriate race or ethnicity, yet, or is that still taboo? I think trans is a similar situation.

There was a guy recently getting plastic surgery to have Korean features.

Alec Baldwin’s wife claimed to be from Spain and spoke in an accent but she’s from the Northeast in the States.

Rachel Dolezal. That was only 10 years ago.

Those weren’t well-received but continuing in this current direction of accepting things outside the norm, maybe in a couple years it’ll be fine.

So if you have no problems with people claiming to be the opposite gender, you support transracial people?

I’m not saying I’m for or against any of it, but those thoughts seem logical.

Well, let’s see, race and ethnicity truly are on a spectrum, so….[checks notes]……NO! Don’t dare mess with those! (I’m pretty sure this is one of the commandments.)

 

[kymom99]

I mean, they could put a urinal in the individual room but this expands the size of the rooms considerably and reduces the number of stalls/rooms. Unless you want your face beside a urinal, these are better placed elsewhere. Perhaps behind a back wall?. Urinals are much faster and cleaner for men to use. Urinals also take up much less space. Do you really want to sit down on pee before using the toilet? You also have the issue of the toilet seat being up a lot.

Can’t they pee in the toilet?

 

[starlite_]

Is it OK to appropriate race or ethnicity, yet, or is that still taboo? I think trans is a similar situation.

There was a guy recently getting plastic surgery to have Korean features.

Alec Baldwin’s wife claimed to be from Spain and spoke in an accent but she’s from the Northeast in the States.

Rachel Dolezal. That was only 10 years ago.

Those weren’t well-received but continuing in this current direction of accepting things outside the norm, maybe in a couple years it’ll be fine.

So if you have no problems with people claiming to be the opposite gender, you support transracial people?

I’m not saying I’m for or against any of it, but those thoughts seem logical.

Honey no.

 

[nw6675]

I guess I'm weird, but I just don't care. I'm traumatized by the dude and chick making babies in the bathroom at the club in 1996. Although I met my husband of 27 ish years there. No bathroom babies, though

 

[kymom99]

This all reminds me of the restaurant scene in mrs. Doubtfire.

 

[mjkacmom]

I’ll politely ask you to answer your own question. Do *you* think they are safe in the men’s room?

There have been issues which is why at many places, folks use the facilities for those they identify with. A trans female, to me, IS female. It wasn’t so long ago that gay people were murdered for being gay, on a regular basis. I believe there is even more hatred for the trans community, especially in certain areas.

 

[mjkacmom]

Do you think that a biological female feels comfortable with a biological male in the rest room or locker room?? I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over this and get points or banned. I was just stating my opinion.

Well, in our schools, it happens all of the time, doesn’t seem to be an issue with students. There is a difference between a man and a trans female

 

[mjkacmom]

I think part of it is that when there is a male in a female-only restroom, they stand out. When these types of assaults or events occur, it may be harder for people to recognize something happening if it is normal for men to come and go from the women's restroom.

There have been a couple incidents where women have been the victim of being recorded in a restroom or changing room by a male dressed in female attire.

Some of the places it has occurred: Macy's, Walmart, Purdue University, a mall bathroom. And to note, these are not necessarily going to be classified as assaults but they are an invasion of privacy and classify under "peeping tom" laws.

This is a small number of events (there are more out there I just didn't link), but they can have hugely detrimental impact on the victim. I, for certain, do not want to be fearful of being recorded over the bathroom stall. I think one way to solve this issue is to keep male-only and female-only restrooms and then have separate family restroom facilities for those identifying as another gender to use. It is the most safe option for those who are transvestite (lack of a better term) or transgender and the rest of the population who are cis.

http://www.sptimes.com/News/92599/Pasco/Cross_dressing_man_se.shtml
https://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2008a/080331PoliceVPA.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_11558044
http://abc7news.com/archive/7739509/

Again, you don’t need to use the term transvestite, it’s like using the word retarded (for lack of a better word).

 

[ronandannette]

I guess I'm weird, but I just don't care. I'm traumatized by the dude and chick making babies in the bathroom at the club in 1996. Although I met my husband of 27 ish years there. No bathroom babies, though

Weird way to describe it, since I doubt that intention had anything to do with it.

 

[mjkacmom]

This is a good point. I just asked my 20-year-old son if he would be comfortable using the bathroom with girls/women and he said, "no". It goes both ways.

I guarantee that my 20, 20, 22, 25 and 27 year olds (girls and boys) would have zero issue with it. I’m pretty confident that they don’t see even a need for separate bathrooms.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Have I not answered every single question you’ve asked me? You apparently are uninterested in answering any of the questions I ask of you. Yet you insist on making false claims about my supposed bias against……what was it again? Oh here! I found it. You said I was biased against an imaginary trans woman (that you created out of thin air) with male genitalia (not sure how you knew that even if they were imaginary), who secretly identifies as a man, presents as a woman, while standing in line for the women’s restroom and I was in the wrong for assuming this person (who again, presents as woman, but is still a creation of your imagination) is a woman waiting to use the women’s restroom. It’s obvious to me you really enjoy typing. A lot. And I think that’s wonderful. But I’m beginning to lose interest. While I had found this conversation with you to be both mildly fascinating as well as extremely entertaining, it has become clear your only goal is to get the last word in. Even if it means typing a bunch of words while saying almost nothing of substance. Disappointing and exhausting. Please put me out of my misery and reply one more time so we can get this over with.

Happy to oblige.

Do better. Be better. Enjoy your day