Just back, some observations...

[goofieslonglostsis]

Flame retardent on!

The best way to deal with the scooters is to make them wait in line for the buses with everyone else. The problem is that they get first-in-line preferential treatment. If they waited like the rest of us, there would be no problem and no complaints.

As always, I'll reply to postings alike this one with the following offer; join me for a standard day at at WDW. You'll get that looks-like-big-perk of boarding a bus before those walking, as part of my "posse". The one and only rule I use for offering these neat perks is that those taking me up on it have to do the total experience. Do WDW as I do. Heck, if you're nice to me and I trust you with that $$$$$$$ that are my "legs" I might even loan you my extra chair so you don't have the added struggle of a rental chair. I'm nice, I know.

This offer basically is for anybody with the same p.o.v. First come, first serve obviously and not too upset those of you posting, I'll keep those spots offered to a small size. Do not want the ever mentioned 25-persons-posse. I can be reached through a PM, plans are to get to WDW on the 16th and if luck is with me to stay until the oct 7th.

Be forwarned though; this might just end up being a learning experience.

 

[fairydust1278]

we are planning a trip for 2012 and my mom will be using her personal scooter! can she get up and walk around yes but not for long. she has emphysema and gets out of breath quickly along with tiring out just as fast. she has to be on oxygen 24 hrs a day. without it she cannot breathe very well. she is afraid of what people will say but knows to not let it get to her. i just hope at disney that we can enjoy our family vacation that for us may be a once in a lifetime trip!

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I am quite sure that those who are inflicted with some type of handicap wish they werent.

Hey, don't be so sure! I'm quite comfy with it since my disability got me;

- al of those humongous perks at WDW
- preboarding the flight, extra services and added baggage allowance
- insured income until death
- many a discounts around our neck of the woods
- parking permit
- have enough free time to do whatever I want
- everybody having an opinion about me and/or going "ahhhhhh" and wanting to pet like a baby/pet
- get all of those superb looking wheelchairs for free that gets me so many compliments
- have about a $2500,- value in silver on my fingers and hands, paid for and all
- having regular free room and board
- having a maid and not having to pay her salary

And that list goes on and on. Health happened, but I'm starting to believe I don't want it to go any better.




*disclaimer; for those that didn't get it, this is called being sarcastic to the expense of oneself. *

 

[BelleRocks]

Just wondering about the "loading first" thing, since I never heard of it...

I can see that a person might need to be loaded first out of the bus group they are in, so they can get safely loaded before other people come on the bus.

But are you saying they get loaded first regardless of how many people are in line? If 30 people are in line ahead of them, and the bus holds 20 people, are you saying they don't have to wait for the next bus? They get loaded before the other 30 people in line? That seems a little odd. Why would that be necessary for safety? They could wait for the next bus and then be loaded first.

Maybe I'm not understanding the process?? If that's what happens, then I can see why that would upset people.

(Although personally, I am the kind who would just blow it off)

 

[kmvand1]

I agree a 100%. I hate when you stand there in the hot sun and when the bus pulls up some person in a scooter shows up and gets right on along with there entire family, friends, cousins etc.
I always call them fastpass's on wheels

That's a good one, I've never heard it referred to as "a fast pass on wheels".

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Just wondering about the "loading first" thing, since I never heard of it...

I can see that a person might need to be loaded first out of the bus group they are in, so they can get safely loaded before other people come on the bus.

But are you saying they get loaded first regardless of how many people are in line? If 30 people are in line ahead of them, and the bus holds 20 people, are you saying they don't have to wait for the next bus? They get loaded before the other 30 people in line? That seems a little odd. Why would that be necessary for safety? They could wait for the next bus and then be loaded first.

Maybe I'm not understanding the process?? If that's what happens, then I can see why that would upset people.

(Although personally, I am the kind who would just blow it off)

That is what happens.

Why? Because it's easier on the logistics. Chances are a person using a wheelchair or ECV can not get onto a bus because of a malfunctioning lift or many of the other things that can go wrong that will prevent the usage of said bus by said individual.

If you'ld let those individuals wait on the bus some say they are "entitled" to, you'll run into backing up of those in a wheelchair or ECV. Remember; only 2 spots on a bus, very rarely 3.

There are a couple of more things that can scr*w up logistics when not using the "first on, last off" principle. Besides all of that, I find I tend to wait for more busses before I can get transportation because of me using a powerchair than I find myself getting on a bus before it's "my turn".

One thing many folks don't know is that WDW is doing their best to accomodate all. Officially, if they can not load anybody using a wheelchair or ECV, because for instance the lift is broken or those 2 spots are already taken up when the bus pulls up, they shouldn't allow ANYBODY to board. Including those walking. Never mind if there are still 10 spots available, the bus should close the doors and drive off. WDW does not do this, they'll get as many folks aboard if they can. They do try and provide the most efficiant transportation for all, it just goes unnoticed most of the times.

 

[wtccheermom]

obviously not read the full thread or can you not read the bit where it says

ITS THE LAW

It is the law to allow the handicapped person but not their huge party and I think that is the frustrating part. If it were just the handicapped individual and 4 or 5 people but the system is highly abused on WDW property.

 

[Piper]

A scooter is not a "fastpass on wheels"---I often have to wait longer to board a ride than able-bodied people.

Most of the lines at WDW are mainstreamed--everyone goes in the same line--wheels or not. Then when there are stairs or other obstacles, the wheeled person is pulled out and sent to another spot to wait--and wait--and wait for just the right "handicap" car or for the right number of HC people to exit the ride (there is a limit to how many people needing assistance can ride at the same time) or for someone to slow down the moving sidewalk.

I often have to wait far longer than those in line behind me and that is okay. I am just grateful that I am able to have some fun with my family.

I'm not even going to start on the view of people's behinds, people asking the 9 year old boy with you what you want to eat in restaurants, people suddenly stopping right in front of you, (wcs and scooters don't stop on a dime) people stepping over you so they can get in front of you, people leaning on your seat or trying to stand on the back of the scooter, etc.

 

[drag n' fly]

People abuse the system, we know they are abusing the system and nothing is being done. All it takes is one bad apple....you know the rest. Just once I would like to see the apples busted ( mobility issues or not). It shows the people who have integrity (mobility issues or not) that it won't be tolerated.This all goes back to how Disney makes the rules and enforces them. People do these things because no one has stopped them from abusing the system.

 

[nicki.momof3]

OP - Sounds like you had a great trip.

Can you tell me more about the Ellen ride - I have been to WDW 5 times and never been on it. We have 3 early elementary age kids - would they like it. A nice A/C break at epcot is always welcome.

I am not about to get into a scooter debat - it is a lose / lose topic that no one can win.

HOPEFULLY, busier parks does mean the economy is improving. We can only pray - something has to improve.

Thanks for the upbeat report - lots of negative on here lately - noce to hear someone had a nice trip.

 

[POOHsie]

People abuse the system, we know they are abusing the system and nothing is being done. All it takes is one bad apple....you know the rest. Just once I would like to see the apples busted ( mobility issues or not). It shows the people who have integrity (mobility issues or not) that it won't be tolerated.This all goes back to how Disney makes the rules and enforces them. People do these things because no one has stopped them from abusing the system.

Talking about mobility issue here, abuse of what system? What rules and what enforcements?? What should be done to bad mobility apples???

 

[mickeysaver]

Flame retardent on!

The best way to deal with the scooters is to make them wait in line for the buses with everyone else. The problem is that they get first-in-line preferential treatment. If they waited like the rest of us, there would be no problem and no complaints.

I certainly don't recall anyone waiting extra time for my scooter to be loaded off the bus.

Just because my scooter is loaded onto the bus first doesn't mean that either of us arrive at our destination any earlier and if truth be told, you get a really good jump on me in respect to getting to the park(s), the shops, and the hotel at the end of the day because I have to wait for you folks to exit the bus, then wait longer for the driver to release the hooks and tie downs on the scooter, and then wait a bit more for the go ahead to leave the bus. And once I am off the bus, you have already made your way to your resort room, or the turnstiles, or the stores at DTD, which means that ultimately, you win.

Would you really rather be loaded first or have the jump on getting to the "good stuff"? I certainly know my answer.

 

[marymac123]

That's so interesting because we were there Aug 25-31 and we walked on almost all the rides! Crowds were VERY low IMO and most times we ate at restaurants they were half empty, so what a difference just a few days makes.

I agree-we were ther Aug 24-Sept 2 & though it was a bit more crowded than last year, the most we waited(if we even waited) was 5 mins. And, every restaurant was 1/2 empty except for CRT & LeCellier!

 

[Snape]

It is possible that the 100% of the scooter users are handicapped (however unlikely that is), but it's far more disturbing seeing large children being pushed in carriages when they can clearly walk. If your kids feet drag on the pavement while being pushed and have to squeeze themselves in the carriage, they are too big to ride in it.

 

[JerseyJanice]

But are you saying they get loaded first regardless of how many people are in line? If 30 people are in line ahead of them, and the bus holds 20 people, are you saying they don't have to wait for the next bus? They get loaded before the other 30 people in line? That seems a little odd. Why would that be necessary for safety? They could wait for the next bus and then be loaded first.

Maybe I'm not understanding the process?? If that's what happens, then I can see why that would upset people.

(Although personally, I am the kind who would just blow it off)

Yes, that is exactly what happened several times. We'd be waiting for a bus with many other people on line in front of us. A group of guests with a person on a scooter or wheelchair would come up and stand in the spot on the side marked for wheelchairs. A bus would pull up, the wheelchairs and/or scooters were loaded, then their passengers and families would fill the bus. Maybe 10 of the 30 or so people who waiting on line long before them would get on the bus next and fill any remaining seats. You'd have to stand on that bus or wait for the next one and hope the same thing didn't happen. And yes, that did happen one time so afterward, we got on any bus and dealt with standing.

That is what happens.

Why? Because it's easier on the logistics. Chances are a person using a wheelchair or ECV can not get onto a bus because of a malfunctioning lift or many of the other things that can go wrong that will prevent the usage of said bus by said individual.

If you'ld let those individuals wait on the bus some say they are "entitled" to, you'll run into backing up of those in a wheelchair or ECV. Remember; only 2 spots on a bus, very rarely 3.

See, this is what I'm trying to say--if the number of these vehicles continues to increase, Disney may have to design a bus that fits more scooters. Or use something besides a bus. I don't know what it would take because I'm no engineer, but all these scooters seem to have a cumulative effect.

Maybe ten years ago someone might say that they can't go to WDW because it's too physically taxing, but now a lot of people seem to be deciding to come to WDW because they know they can rent scooters. I don't doubt there are people who struggle through trips with bad backs and knees and such, but after seeing all the scooters at WDW decide to rent one themselves next time. I wouldn't call it the power of suggestion, but it is along the lines of monkey-see, monkey-do.

 

[JerseyJanice]

OP - Sounds like you had a great trip.

Can you tell me more about the Ellen ride - I have been to WDW 5 times and never been on it. We have 3 early elementary age kids - would they like it. A nice A/C break at epcot is always welcome.

I am not about to get into a scooter debat - it is a lose / lose topic that no one can win.

HOPEFULLY, busier parks does mean the economy is improving. We can only pray - something has to improve.

Thanks for the upbeat report - lots of negative on here lately - noce to hear someone had a nice trip.

Thanks for your nice post.

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Ellen's attraction. I'm not a big fan of hers, but I thought she was pretty cute in it and found it well-written. I went on it with my friends and their son while my husband and the other boys went on Mission Space. I can't imagine not loving it on a hot, sunny day. It's so cool and dark. Whether your kids will like it would depend on their personalities. It's not for thrill seekers, but I think school-aged kids would be thrilled by the dinosaurs in it.

 

[Bork]

We were also there from the 19th to the 27th. Yes, it was busy, but we got as much done as we could at rope drop, always got a fastpass as soon as we could, did shorter wait rides during midday, and scheduled a late lunch to relax during the busy, hot early afternoon. We never waited more than 25 minutes for anything and we got on everything, including our favorites quite a few times.

Well, we did wait a half hour for a couple characters, but that was it.

And even though we stayed on property, we drove everywhere and we loved it! No waiting for long bus lines. Right to the car, where DS can rest in his car seat, and park right outside our room. 2 years ago there was nothing "Magical" about DME or the buses. We'll never go without a car again.

 

[suzannekelder]

an honest observation:

i think anyone in line would feel very uncomfortable confronting a guest in an ecv about having too many extra people with them and the bus drivers should be assertive about the policy so that everyone gets "fair" treatment.

 

[Bouncin-Tigger]

an honest observation:

i think anyone in line would feel very uncomfortable confronting a guest in an ecv about having too many extra people with them and the bus drivers should be assertive about the policy so that everyone gets "fair" treatment.

Completely agree and I would imagine 99% of the people on ecv's are not abusing the system its just the ones who do that you notice.
My mother worked for an insurance company for 45 years and always says that there used to be a very thin line when it comes to being considered handicap and even having handicap plates on a car to having the company cover the purchase of an ecv. She actually has an old brochure from the 80's that says " self inflicted obesity is not a handicap it is a lack of self control." She says now they seem to be easier to obtain.

 

[larryz]

The FMCSA 374.315, 49 CFR Parts 27,37, and 38 covers pretty much the ADA on transportation. I have enforced CMV Laws for almost 12 years in the State of MS and never seen where it states who loads first, just that an area on the bus meeting certain measurments be set aside for wheel chairs, crutches, ecv, etc and a sign pointing out disabled seating set aside for the disabled in the front of the bus.
Now on that note, the State of Fl. can make amendments to the laws and WDW can make a policy requiring them to load first.

In no way am I taking sides here, just posting from experience in the enforcement side of things.

Thanks for your response.

Yeah, I found the ADA and several sections of USC referring to requirements on how to accommodate mobility devices, but I didn't find ANYTHING requiring the loading of those devices first.

It might be Disney policy, and it might be FL law, but I'm not finding anything federal on it...

Incidentally, federal law DOES require that a qualifying person in a mobility device, and ONE other, must be accommodated, unless there's a specialist assisting the qualifying person, then that person plus one other plus the qualifying person must be accommodated. Disney goes WELL above that requirement when their policy allows FIVE to board (and if they allow more than that, then they're practically discriminating in reverse, which is also illegal under the ADA...).

But my question is what is Disney Transportation's status under the ADA? Are they a "public conveyance" or a private convenience? And if it became too much of a hassle to comply -- that is, if the impact of complaints from non-qualifying riders began to outweigh the transportation utility of the service, when would they find it economically more advantageous to just drop the service (especially given the liability exposure on so many different levels...such as crashes, people falling, potential ADA actions, etc...)?

Inquiring minds and all that...