Just back, DAS return time

[mshanson3121]

This thread has been stuck in my head since I came across it this morning. What blows me away, is that a couple/few people, seems to be jealous of the DAS. They seem to think it gives some sort of unfair advantage over everyone else. I mean, have they even really stopped to think about this??!! People using DAS (except for the very few lying/abusing the system), are dealing with significant disease/disorder/disability that puts them at a disadvantage to every other "normal" guest in that park. But not only that, think outside the realm of Disney, every single day of their life is more difficult than the average (non-disabled/diseased/disordered) person's. You really want to begrudge them something that helps make Disney a bit easier for them? Something more akin to what others experience? You really want to begrudge them because they might get a couple more rides than you??? Something nevethat Itmight r ceases to amaze me how self-absorbed some people really can be.

On the flip side, I do get what some of the uproar is about. No one does more than Disney at trying to make the experience equal/magical for everyone. On our last trip, when we saw CMs loading a severely disabled girl, in a full reclining bed-style wheelchair, with her o2 tank etc... onto a ride, it truly brought tears to my eyes. Disney goes above and beyond in this way. I truly do not think anyone else can match them. In light of this, it does come across somewhat ungrateful, to have the generous accommodation of the DAS - and then turn around and complain about it. We (those of us dealing with special needs) are not owed anything extra in life. So, when things like the DAS are available - be grateful for exactly what you are offered and don't keep expecting more.

 

[OurBigTrip]

This thread has been stuck in my head since I came across it this morning. What blows me away, is that a couple/few people, seems to be jealous of the DAS. They seem to think it gives some sort of unfair advantage over everyone else. I mean, have they even really stopped to think about this??!! People using DAS (except for the very few lying/abusing the system), are dealing with significant disease/disorder/disability that puts them at a disadvantage to every other "normal" guest in that park. But not only that, think outside the realm of Disney, every single day of their life is more difficult than the average (non-disabled/diseased/disordered) person's. You really want to begrudge them something that helps make Disney a bit easier for them? Something more akin to what others experience? You really want to begrudge them because they might get a couple more rides than you??? It never ceases to amaze me how self-absorbed some people really can be.

On the flip side, I do get what some of the uproar is about. No one does more than Disney at trying to make the experience equal/magical for everyone. On our last trip, when we saw CMs loading a severely disabled girl, in a full reclining bed-style wheelchair, with her o2 tank etc... onto a ride, it truly brought tears to my eyes. Disney goes above and beyond in this way. I truly do not think anyone else can match them. In light of this, it does come across somewhat ungrateful, to have the generous accommodation of the DAS - and then turn around and complain about it. We (those of us dealing with special needs) are not owed anything extra in life. So, when things like the DAS are available - be grateful for exactly what it is, and don't keep expecting more.

Your last paragraph is what my point has been about from when I first started posting on this thread, i.e., DAS provides a significant advantage, and yet so many people are complaining about the walking it takes to use that advantage, and want Disney to modify the program to provide an even greater advantage.

I don’t know of anyone, on this board or IRL, who is opposed to providing accommodations so that disabled guests have equal access to Disneyland or Disney World; it’s not only legally required, it’s morally required, IMO. Having said that, the trials of daily life shouldn’t have any impact on accommodations; accommodations should provide equal access, not attempt to make up for difficulties in life outside of the parks.

 

[DisneyOma]

This thread has been stuck in my head since I came across it this morning. What blows me away, is that a couple/few people, seems to be jealous of the DAS. They seem to think it gives some sort of unfair advantage over everyone else. I mean, have they even really stopped to think about this??!! People using DAS (except for the very few lying/abusing the system), are dealing with significant disease/disorder/disability that puts them at a disadvantage to every other "normal" guest in that park. But not only that, think outside the realm of Disney, every single day of their life is more difficult than the average (non-disabled/diseased/disordered) person's. You really want to begrudge them something that helps make Disney a bit easier for them? Something more akin to what others experience? You really want to begrudge them because they might get a couple more rides than you??? Something nevethat Itmight r ceases to amaze me how self-absorbed some people really can be.

This comes off as self absorbed as well - only people with a disability have a difficult life and deserve some special treatment at Disney? I'd love to be able to introduce you to a few of my students, some who have been child soldiers before they escaped and found safety in the United States. I do admit that I believe the DAS gives an unfair advantage, since it can still be used even when FP has been filled 60 days out. Guests who have access to DAS get that perk, along with the ability to do other things while waiting for the return time. I don't know of any fair solution to this though - A waiting room would be horrible, and I don't see how they could prevent someone from going on another attraction while they "wait"? I'm not against the DAS, as it seems the best solution to the law, but to think it doesn't give someone an advantage is unenlightened, IMO.

 

[DLgal]

Here is the thing. Disney provides the DAS largely because they KNOW people who need it (and thus, their entire party) aren't spending full days in the parks. I have had a few CMs point blank tell me that the PURPOSE of the DAS is to, hopefully, allow people with disabilities to spend more time in the parks by making the experience more enjoyable. Guess what happens when people spend more TIME in the parks? They spend more MONEY.

Almost every time I renew the DAS, I am asked some version of "has the DAS helped you be able to stay in the parks longer/helped you be able to enjoy the parks more than before/given you flexibility to better plan your breaks?" They also reiterate that while waiting for our return time, we could "grab a bite to eat or do some shopping."

Of course, Disney provides the DAS because they have some legal/moral responsibility, they have a history of being helpful in that way, and it is "the right thing to do." But, also, if you don't think there's a financial incentive for making the DAS available and user friendly, so that people with disabilities not only come to the parks, but stay in the parks longer and longer stretches of time, well I don't know what to tell you.

Disney wants the DAS experience to be good enough that DAS users tell others about it/sing its praises, but not so good that people lie and cheat to obtain one. It's a balance, but I think Disney has a lot of incentive to make this program appealing, not so restrictive that it's barely better than navigating the parks as a typical guest.

On the surface, Disney will say that the DAS is fair. That it levels the field. That's simply not true. The DAS provides advantages, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves. As a DAS family, I can recognize that we are able to ride more rides in a set number of hours using a combo of DAS and Fastpass/Maxpass than any other guests besides VIP Tour guests (who have a similar ability). The thing is, though, our time in the parks has historically been an average of 4 hours per day, at which point my son is mentally done, and we have to leave. Some days, we have had to leave after an hour or two and an unexpected meltdown. But, the DAS has meant that, rather than forgoing annual passes or long, expensive WDW vacations, we have maintained our DL APs for over a decade, and have vacationed at WDW every other year or so. If not for the GAC, and now DAS, we would have hung it up long ago, and Disney wouldn't have gotten who knows how many tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of dollars from our family over the last 15 years.

 

[cmwade77]

.

On the flip side, I do get what some of the uproar is about. No one does more than Disney at trying to make the experience equal/magical for everyone. On our last trip, when we saw CMs loading a severely disabled girl, in a full reclining bed-style wheelchair, with her o2 tank etc... onto a ride, it truly brought tears to my eyes. Disney goes above and beyond in this way. I truly do not think anyone else can match them. In light of this, it does come across somewhat ungrateful, to have the generous accommodation of the DAS - and then turn around and complain about it. We (those of us dealing with special needs) are not owed anything extra in life. So, when things like the DAS are available - be grateful for exactly what you are offered and don't keep expecting more.

Actually, various other places do indeed do more. For example, the San Diego Zoo would have accommodated the person and their assistant would get free admission. Granted there aren't as many rides, but they even provide transportation around the parks for the person that is disabled.

Another example is Sea World (at least San Diego) would also assist, in this situation rides would be difficult since they are mostly thrill rides, but if there is a ride that the person could do and they had given advance notice, Sea World would often be able to provide someone to assist with transfers, something Disney doesn't offer. Sea World even has disabled parking that is around 300 feet from the park entrance. Sea World also reserves the best non soak zone seats in the house at shows for disabled and usually has a few in the soak zone as well in case they want the soak zone, again the best seats in the House. Compare that to Disney where the seats are usually in the back or the worst seats in the house for shows (with a few exceptions).

Universal Studios Hollywood would have similar accommodations in this situation as Disney, except they wouldn't do return times for such a case, they would be going straight on the rides. The no return times isn't true for everyone and is a case by case basis, but this is one where they wouldn't do the return times. Although they call it return time, that is even a misnomer, they scan you pass and before you use it at a second attraction you gave to have waited for the length of the standby queue, but you can still do anything that you don't need the password for, i.e. a short line, a show, eat, etc.

So to say that Disney does more for disabled guests than anyone else is a misnomer. Do they do a decent job? Yes, I never denied that. Is there room for improvement on the accommodations they provide? Yes. Is making suggestions on how they could improve complaining? No, it is making a suggestion and providing the reasons behind the suggestion to back up why the improvement is needed.

Now granted, if you compared Disney to say Knott's or Six Flags, Disney is leaps and bounds better than what Knotts or Six Flags offers, but to say that no one does more is not accurate.

 

[DLgal]

Now granted, if you compared Disney to say Knott's or Six Flags, Disney is leaps and bounds better than what Knotts or Six Flags offers, but to say that no one does more is not accurate.

Knotts uses a similar return time system. It's just all manual, done with a paper pass and return times written down. It's essentially the same thing, though.

 

[mshanson3121]

Having said that, the trials of daily life shouldn’t have any impact on accommodations; accommodations should provide equal access, not attempt to make up for difficulties in life outside of the parks.

I didn't say they should. And they don't - Disney certainly didnt come up with the DAS because of daily life. My point was to those complaining about the "unfair" advantage, to basically, just get over themselves. A little bit of empathy and understanding goes a long way in life.

 

[mshanson3121]

This comes off as self absorbed as well - only people with a disability have a difficult life and deserve some special treatment at Disney? I'd love to be able to introduce you to a few of my students, some who have been child soldiers before they escaped and found safety in the United States.

I honestly don't know whether to roll my eyes or laugh at the stupidity of this statement lol. Omg. Talk about a lack of common sense and inserting words that were never said.

 

[cmwade77]

Knotts uses a similar return time system. It's just all manual, done with a paper pass and return times written down. It's essentially the same thing, though.

Except to get the return time can take 30 minutes or more at Knott's and elevators are often turned off and you have to get someone's attention to get them turned on to get the return time. Additionally, there is no wheelchair accessible route from the parking lot to the entrance, as the path goes up and down a hill that is too steep to be considered accessible.

Additionally, they try to claim that proof of disability is required to get accomodations and you have to get a supervisor and show them the applicable ADA laws to get around that.

At least that was the way it was the last time I went.

Needless to say, I am not a fan of Knotts handling of accessibility compared to even Disney and others.

 

[mshanson3121]

To say that no one does more is not accurate.

I should have clarified given the thread/topic. I wasn't referring strictly to the DAS - I agree there are better systems. I meant on the whole - between DAS, structural ride adaptability (which is a big one), their Make A Wish/Give The Children The World program, right down to how they deal with food allergies, the ride guide etc... I really don't think anyone does more than Disney.

 

[Lilsia]

Here is the thing. Disney provides the DAS largely because they KNOW people who need it (and thus, their entire party) aren't spending full days in the parks. I have had a few CMs point blank tell me that the PURPOSE of the DAS is to, hopefully, allow people with disabilities to spend more time in the parks by making the experience more enjoyable. Guess what happens when people spend more TIME in the parks? They spend more MONEY.

You don't know that. There are hundreds of reasons why someone gets a DAS and not all of them have to leave the park early. For example those with bathroom issues that need to get to one frequently wont necessarily have to leave the park early. And that also assumes that those without a DAS go the whole day, every day. Many with young children never spend a full day at the parks. The elderly are another example. You are implying that ONLY those with disabilities are somehow not getting value for their money. We ALL know what it entails to go to an amusement park. It is up to the individual family to decide whether it is worth it to them, knowing all of their limitations, to even go to WDW. I don't think that a person should go and complain because they know what they are getting into. Again, it is an amusement park, not a necessity.

 

[cmwade77]

I should have clarified given the thread/topic. I wasn't referring strictly to the DAS - I agree there are better systems. I meant on the whole - between DAS, structural ride adaptability (which is a big one), their Make A Wish/Give The Children The World program, right down to how they deal with food allergies, the ride guide etc... I really don't think anyone does more than Disney.

Others have similar structural ride adaptability. Sea World does substantially better with food allergies. Others have ride guides and work with organizations like Make a Wish/Give kids the world and some with those specificity organizations. I am not specifically referring to the DAS either. There are many others that go far above and beyond what Disney does. The San Diego zoo will even provide someone to assist a blind or deaf person all day if requested in advance and at no additional charge. The list goes on and on of what others do that Disney doesn't.

I am not saying Disney needs to match them, but I am saying Disney doesn't necessarily do more than everyone else.

 

[OurBigTrip]

You don't know that. There are hundreds of reasons why someone gets a DAS and not all of them have to leave the park early. For example those with bathroom issues that need to get to one frequently wont necessarily have to leave the park early. And that also assumes that those without a DAS go the whole day, every day. Many with young children never spend a full day at the parks. The elderly are another example. You are implying that ONLY those with disabilities are somehow not getting value for their money. We ALL know what it entails to go to an amusement park. It is up to the individual family to decide whether it is worth it to them, knowing all of their limitations, to even go to WDW. I don't think that a person should go and complain because they know what they are getting into. Again, it is an amusement park, not a necessity.

Yeah, I never got the “we can only be there for x hours, so we need to be able to do as much as someone without a DAS can do in 2x hours”. Simple math demonstrates that equal access would be a DAS holder and a non-DAS holder would do roughly the same number of rides across an equal period of time. And if it’s not worth it, then don’t go. We didn’t go for years when our kids were very young because we knew that they would be miserable trying to do full days, so for us, it wasn’t worth the money.

 

[mshanson3121]

Others have similar structural ride adaptability. Sea World does substantially better with food allergies. Others have ride guides and work with organizations like Make a Wish/Give kids the world and some with those specificity organizations. I am not specifically referring to the DAS either. There are many others that go far above and beyond what Disney does. The San Diego zoo will even provide someone to assist a blind or deaf person all day if requested in advance and at no additional charge. The list goes on and on of what others do that Disney doesn't.

I am not saying Disney needs to match them, but I am saying Disney doesn't necessarily do more than everyone else.

But do they do every single thing Disney does, including having an entire village dedicated to MAW housing, PLUS more? We can nitpick individual things all day long. I'm talking about the entire, cumulative package. Name me one park that does ALL Disney does, let alone more. Because I truly do not know of one. But if there is one, then my utmost respect and hats off to them.

 

[cmwade77]

But do they do every single thing Disney does, including having an entire village dedicated to MAW housing, PLUS more? We can nitpick individual things all day long. I'm talking about the entire, cumulative package. Name me one park that does ALL Disney does, let alone more. Because I truly do not know of one. But if there is one, then my utmost respect and hats off to them.

Umm, Disney doesn't provide the village, that is part of the organization that Disney works with.

And all if the ones I have listed does everything Disney does and more, this includes: Sea World San Diego), San Diego Zoo (and Safari park), Universal Studios Hollywood.

 

[SirDuff]

But do they do every single thing Disney does, including having an entire village dedicated to MAW housing, PLUS more? We can nitpick individual things all day long. I'm talking about the entire, cumulative package. Name me one park that does ALL Disney does, let alone more. Because I truly do not know of one. But if there is one, then my utmost respect and hats off to them.

No, but neither does Disney - Gives Kids the World is not part of Disney nor funded by Disney (though they do provide their tickets at lower/no costs to the organization - as do Sea World and Universal).

 

[mshanson3121]

No, but neither does Disney - Gives Kids the World is not part of Disney nor funded by Disney (though they do provide their tickets at lower/no costs to the organization - as do Sea World and Universal).

I wasn't aware of that. I was under the impression that Disney provided the lodging.

 

[SirDuff]

I wasn't aware of that. I was under the impression that Disney provided the lodging.

They may provide donations, but do not provide lodging at GKTW. Mainly, as noted below, they provide "in-kind donations" like the tickets I noted above.

https://www.gktw.org/about/faq.php

 

[cmwade77]

And I would like to give an example of how exactly Sea World does more than Disney does. This is a personal example, when it comes to the terminally ill, Disney does a decent amount for children, but nothing for adults.

Let's look at my dad who passed away a couple of years ago due to complications with Leukemia. Shortly after being diagnosed, we had taken him and my family to Disney World. One of the two biggest things he ever wanted to do was a swim/interact with the Dolphins type of thing. So, we figured we would try to do so at Disney World, but unfortunately that tour (at least at that time) had to be paid for when booked. By the time we had the money for it, because it was expensive even then, it was completely full and they wouldn't budge an inch on it, even explaining the circumstances. Well a year or so later, we took him and the family to Sea World (San Diego) and once again on our date the Dolphin Interaction was full, but once there he was talking with trainers and his issues came up, they got him in a wet suit and let him spend some time with the Dolphins at no cost. Was it the full program? No, and in hindsight I don't know that he could have physically handled the full program, but he was delighted that he got to do that and made his trip.

I did say it was one of two, the other item in case you are wondering was a hot air balloon ride, which thanks to the help of a family friend he was able to do shortly before he passed. Honestly, we weren't sure he would survive the trip and that fact made it a challenge to find a company that would take him. We did find one in Vegas that did and we're extremely kind about everything. He did make the trip and truly was thrilled to have gone

I know to many these sound small, but they were huge for him and shortly before the hot air balloon ride, Sea World was willing to work with his doctor to see if they could bring him out for a trip at their expense, unfortunately before that could go to far his health took a turn for the worse to where that wouldn't have been possible, so I don't know for sure if they would have picked up all of the cost or split it with us or what have you, but they were willing to work with us.

Again, Disney wouldn't offer anything because he was an adult that was terminally ill and not a child. With Disney we were only asking if they offered anything for terminally ill adults and they had nothing other than the DAS of course.

And honestly with all of the medical bills and all they couldn't afford much and we helped as much as we could, so none of us were doing great, which is why we reached out to places and asked if there was any assistance available at all to fulfill some of his wishes.

So these are more of the reasons I say others do indeed do more than Disney does. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, only showing why I feel so strongly that the statement that no one does as much as Disney is wrong.

 

[Lilsia]

And I would like to give an example of how exactly Sea World does more than Disney does. This is a personal example, when it comes to the terminally ill, Disney does a decent amount for children, but nothing for adults.

Let's look at my dad who passed away a couple of years ago due to complications with Leukemia. Shortly after being diagnosed, we had taken him and my family to Disney World. One of the two biggest things he ever wanted to do was a swim/interact with the Dolphins type of thing. So, we figured we would try to do so at Disney World, but unfortunately that tour (at least at that time) had to be paid for when booked. By the time we had the money for it, because it was expensive even then, it was completely full and they wouldn't budge an inch on it, even explaining the circumstances. Well a year or so later, we took him and the family to Sea World (San Diego) and once again on our date the Dolphin Interaction was full, but once there he was talking with trainers and his issues came up, they got him in a wet suit and let him spend some time with the Dolphins at no cost. Was it the full program? No, and in hindsight I don't know that he could have physically handled the full program, but he was delighted that he got to do that and made his trip.

I did say it was one of two, the other item in case you are wondering was a hot air balloon ride, which thanks to the help of a family friend he was able to do shortly before he passed. Honestly, we weren't sure he would survive the trip and that fact made it a challenge to find a company that would take him. We did find one in Vegas that did and we're extremely kind about everything. He did make the trip and truly was thrilled to have gone

I know to many these sound small, but they were huge for him and shortly before the hot air balloon ride, Sea World was willing to work with his doctor to see if they could bring him out for a trip at their expense, unfortunately before that could go to far his health took a turn for the worse to where that wouldn't have been possible, so I don't know for sure if they would have picked up all of the cost or split it with us or what have you, but they were willing to work with us.

Again, Disney wouldn't offer anything because he was an adult that was terminally ill and not a child. With Disney we were only asking if they offered anything for terminally ill adults and they had nothing other than the DAS of course.

And honestly with all of the medical bills and all they couldn't afford much and we helped as much as we could, so none of us were doing great, which is why we reached out to places and asked if there was any assistance available at all to fulfill some of his wishes.

So these are more of the reasons I say others do indeed do more than Disney does. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, only showing why I feel so strongly that the statement that no one does as much as Disney is wrong.

Can you imagine how many requests Disney gets from people exactly like this. How can they pick and choose who gets these special treatments and who doesn't? Why would you expect special treatment just because of an illness? My mom died of cancer and we never asked anyone for anything. In fact, I rarely even say anything to people about it because it is none of anyone's business plus I know that every single family has their own tragedies. We are not special that we deserve special treatment,or expect that a business should give us anything for free. Unreal.