Just back, and it couldn't have gone smoother!

[webcreatrix]

What could possibly be negative about sleeping in and still riding TSM?

Man, I am with you!

 

[magicbob]

What could possibly be negative about sleeping in and still riding TSM?

Longer waits for everything else perhaps?

 

[Magpie]

Longer waits for everything else perhaps?

Can't say I noticed anything out of the ordinary the other week. Spaceship Earth, for example, still had long waits in the morning and middle of the day, and was a walk-on in the evening. Pretty much exactly the same pattern I've seen on every one of my previous trips.

We did comment that Disney appeared to be consistently overestimating waits by a factor of 25 to 50 percent. For instance, we'd hop in a 20 minute line, time it, and almost always find ourselves on the ride in ten.

That's one way to keep riders happy, I suppose!

 

[OtherScott]

I will take 7DMT.

Now if WDW would build this partially inside a Lord of the Rings or Maleficent castle or Star Wars mountain or something-then yea I would be interested.

I really like Disney and so does my wife and our sons...but it certainly isn't for the rides...

 

[wisblue]

Actually we are pointing out how FP+ was not the reason for the good time. I'm pretty sure AK is nice with low crowds, regardless of Fastpass. And the last 30 minutes is always great at the Magic Kingdom.

But you can sleep in and still ride TSMM, so does it really matter if there is anything negative about it?

-J

FP+ may not be the reason a lot of people have a great time at WDW, but if you can do everything you always wanted to do before FP+ by arriving at a park at opening AND do some things later in the day that you never could have done without it, FP+ can make a great trip even better for a lot of guests. Especially guests who are satisfied doing popular rides once in a day and who aren't interested in going all out all day, including during the hottest and most crowded parts of the day.

I have been doing a lot more observing than posting lately, but there is no denying that a lot of the positive posts bring out responses from a predictable group of other posters.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I believe part of the "downer brigade" thing has to do with differing priorities. I've never been one to rate the success of my day on the basis of how many times I rode a single coaster over and over.

There's SO much more to Disney for me, than just "how many times did you ride a coaster today"?

So now it has gone from fp+ haters to the downer brigade. Nice.

You know, I agree that it comes down to differing priorities. I disagree, though, that those who don't like fp+ are just wanting to reride coasters all day long. I know I don't fit that mold.

 

[thehogsters]

We all thought the fp+ worked great and was better than the old fp. Spent the week of April 5th at Disney and our longest waits were at SeaWorld. We got to all parks at rope drop and did two of the best rides with no wait. Used our fp for latter in the day or evning for the other popular rides. Do the lower wait times attractions in between and we saw almost everthing with minimal waiting.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

OP, I am glad that you had a great trip and I'm sorry that some of your report is being twisted or misunderstood. You clearly stated that you were surprised to see crowds at AK at night and you said nothing of rain or the MK clearing out.

I also noticed you didn't say "our trip was fantastic BECAUSE OF FP+" you merely stated that you didn't experience any scanning glitches or see any major queues of people waiting at FP+ entrances. And that for you and your husband, FP+ was great.

Thanks for your report. We leave 1 month from tomorrow and I'm excited to see how our trip goes using only FP+. When we were there in September FP- was still functional and we tested FP+ and experienced TONS of glitches. I wanted so badly to love MM+ but it really frustrated me. I felt I'm hoping this trip will be a different experience.

So now it has gone from fp+ haters to the downer brigade. Nice.

You know, I agree that it comes down to differing priorities. I disagree, though, that those who don't like fp+ are just wanting to reride coasters all day long. I know I don't fit that mold.

Just like many FP+ supporters disagree that all those that like FP+ sleep in and ride TSMM or are satisfied with just riding 3 rides

 

[OtherScott]

Actually we are pointing out how FP+ was not the reason for the good time. -J

Some will have a better time precisely because they have secured 3 FPs prior to arrival. They could get more FPs under the old system if they were industrious, but that didn't equal a better time for them.

80-90% are now using FP because of some combination of easier to access (during ticket purchase), more attractions (including some I think are a waste), increased awareness through marketing, etc. I think FP for a parade or fireworks is a waste, but my MIL and FIL don't.

Disney is closer to the sweet spot with FP+ than they were with paper system. Hopefully they can add back additional opportunities for those who would like more.

 

[rastuso]

FP+ may not be the reason a lot of people have a great time at WDW, but if you can do everything you always wanted to do before FP+ by arriving at a park at opening AND do some things later in the day that you never could have done without it, FP+ can make a great trip even better for a lot of guests. Especially guests who are satisfied doing popular rides once in a day and who aren't interested in going all out all day, including during the hottest and most crowded parts of the day.

I have been doing a lot more observing than posting lately, but there is no denying that a lot of the positive posts bring out responses from a predictable group of other posters.

But that isn't true. Unless you went and didn't use FP-, how can you say you couldn't arrive early at RD for lots of rides, and then use FP later in the day?

All the FP+ Haters Brigade complain about that. I did it for years.

And it boils down to that old adage: 3<5 (or 6, or 7, or 8)

Of course, I did have to do all of that horrible OJ-esque running from land to land, getting my FPs. Who wouldn't do that to double their E ticket rides?

Again, I have yet to see ANYTHING that the average VACATIONER (not locals) are doing now that they couldn't do before, except sleep in and ride TSMM. And EVERYONE who comes back lists that as one of the reasons they love FP+.

-Jaosn

 

[Angel Ariel]

Just like many FP+ supporters disagree that all those that like FP+ sleep in and ride TSMM or are satisfied with just riding 3 rides

I don't recall saying that was ok?

I also don't recall seeing anyone in this thread breaking out labels like the famous kool-aid one...and I doubt that label would go over well with the op, but downer brigade is ok?

I'm tired of the labels all around, quite frankly, and have been for quite a while.

 

[Magpie]

So now it has gone from fp+ haters to the downer brigade. Nice.

You know, I agree that it comes down to differing priorities. I disagree, though, that those who don't like fp+ are just wanting to reride coasters all day long. I know I don't fit that mold.

For what it's worth, I don't like labels either. I was quoting a previous commenter, which is why I put "downer brigade" in quotes. AND I was attempting to point out that it's not that people are being deliberately negative for the sake of being negative, it's simply a matter of differing priorities. Not everyone tours the same way or defines "success" in the same fashion. (In other words, I was saying that there is no "downer brigade".)

I didn't say that everyone who doesn't like FP+ just wants to reride coasters all day long. I said that for me, that's not how I rate success.

I've noticed that whenever I post the details of what I considered a lovely, successful day, someone inevitably comes back with, "That sounds awful! I'd be miserable if I had a day like that!" Even a day where I felt like I did nothing but walk from one ride to another, hopping on without waits, is a disaster to someone. Maybe because I took three hours out in the middle of the afternoon for a nap. Maybe because I didn't ride the "right" rides (coasters, I can only presume?). Maybe because I only rode the "headliners" once. Maybe because I simply didn't ride enough. I don't know... I walk too slow? I'm too easily distracted by street entertainment or shiny things?

The point I was making wasn't that you rate success by your coaster-count, it was simply that everyone's different and this isn't how I rate my success.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

But that isn't true. Unless you went and didn't use FP-, how can you say you couldn't arrive early at RD for lots of rides, and then use FP later in the day?

All the FP+ Haters Brigade complain about that. I did it for years.

And it boils down to that old adage: 3<5 (or 6, or 7, or 8)

Of course, I did have to do all of that horrible OJ-esque running from land to land, getting my FPs. Who wouldn't do that to double their E ticket rides?

Again, I have yet to see ANYTHING that the average VACATIONER (not locals) are doing now that they couldn't do before, except sleep in and ride TSMM. And EVERYONE who comes back lists that as one of the reasons they love FP+.

-Jaosn

If there is anything that has come out of the debate over FP+ it is that all people tour differently. There are LOTS of people that wouldn't run back and forth across the parks to double e ticket rides. If you did that and it suited your touring style, more power to you. I get that FP+ doesn't work for that scenario as you can only pick 3 and you can't have multiple FP+ for any ride. Whether you like it or not, your style is in the minority

To that point, I also get that people like me that barely used FP- (maybe 2 per day) and like to stop and smell the roses are ALSO in the minority. Together, your style of touring and my style of touring probably represents 10% total of the guests that visit WDW. And Disney is going to try and appeal to the 90% - many of whom never used FP- and who were previously content to wait in lines.

There are positive reports, like this one, that aren't saying "FP+ is flawless and practically perfect. It was the SOLE reason my vacation was great" they are merely reporting back an individual experience and attempting to allay some of the concerns that have been reported such as issues at the scanners or FP+ queues snaking back into the walkways etc.

 

[OtherScott]

And it boils down to that old adage: 3<5 (or 6, or 7, or 8)

40% who used to pull 0 now pull 3...3>0

Of the 50% who used to pull FPs, not all pulled 3

It's just math

Of course, I did have to do all of that horrible OJ-esque running from land to land, getting my FPs. Who wouldn't do that to double their E ticket rides?

a lot.

Again, I have yet to see ANYTHING that the average VACATIONER (not locals) are doing now that they couldn't do before, except sleep in and ride TSMM. And EVERYONE who comes back lists that as one of the reasons they love FP+.

-Jaosn

They are pulling 3 FPs before ever entering the park, and scheduling that around the shows they want to see, the meals they want to eat and the breaks they want to take.

They know the return time for EE 60 days before going to AK, not after arriving and walking back to the ride to see that the return time is right in the middle of a planned meal.

Not for everyone, of course, but seems like a lot of people like that.

 

[Magpie]

For what it's worth, here's another example of how FP+ fit into our day and touring style:

Friday, April 11th

We had breakfast at the Wave, in the Contemporary Resort. After breakfast, we walked over to the Magic Kingdom, arriving shortly after opening (10am-ish).

We rode Barnstormer immediately, with no wait.

Buzz, a 10 minute wait (though it was posted as 20)

Small World, a walk-on.

Mickey's Philharmagic

The Liberty Belle Steamboat

After which, we weren't feeling any pressing need to ride other MK rides, as this was our fourth visit this week and we'd already ridden almost everything at least once. So, I spent the next two hours playing Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom and defeating Hades. Yay, me! The castmember who gave me my bonus reward cards was very amused.

We had lunch at the Tomorrowland Terrace, as I'd never tried it before. Nice salads!

Shopped, on our way out.

Back to the resort for a nap, and some quiet time together.

At about 5:30pm-ish, we headed out to Hollywood Studios (9:30pm close). Saw the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular.

Arrived for our 6-7pm Tower of Terror FP, just before 7pm. There was a little bit of a backup in front of the entrance, due to a large family group arguing with the CM. But once we were past them (less than 5 minutes later), it was a straight walk to the preshow. No wait. Posted Standby wait times were 40 minutes with a long bendy line and lots of FP returns.

Arrived for our 7-8pm Star Tours, just after 7pm. This was a waste of a FP as they were running both sides and it was a walk-on for everyone. No biggie. The castmember joked that we had an "extreme Fastpass".

Popped by the Pirate Experience, and got a return ticket for about an hour away. My husband was reluctant, as he hadn't really enjoyed previous shows.

Had dinner at the Backlot Express. The salad was... kinda icky. Lesson learned! Next time, I'll just order a hot dog.

Watched a bunch of high school marching bands going by. Those kids were GOOD!

Toured One Man's Dream, briefly (but didn't stay for the movie, as we'd already seen it earlier in the week).

Had a nice chat with a castmember cleaning the sidewalks. She's from Puerto Rico, first arrived on the student program, but returned after her time was up to work as a seasonal employee. She spends half her year at Disney, and then uses the money she's earned to spend the other half of the year travelling and seeing the world. Delightful girl!

Were inducted into Captain Jack's crew. I really like the new return ticket system, and I think the decision to shorten the show was a good one. It was the least crowded and most enjoyable version of the show that we'd ever experienced. They've done a good job of dealing with the "crammed into a hot, claustrophobic cell with too many sweaty people" aspect of the Experience.

8:30-ish, used FP+ to ride Toy Story Mania. Noticed that the lines were shrinking noticeably, and never mind that 60 minute posted wait. When we got back out, we saw that the wait had been reduced to 45 minutes, and the lines were continuing to shrink, even with people running across the park to jump in.

8:45-ish - rode Toy Story Mania in standby. Waited exactly 20 minutes to board a vehicle.

Shortly after nine, I would have LOVED to ride again, and we could have fit in one more ride (and possibly even two) before park close. But my husband had a headache, so it was time to head back to our resort.

Not everyone defines success in the same way, but for me, this was a VERY successful day. It's days like this that keep us returning to Disney, year after year.

Analysis: FP+ shortened our wait at the Tower of Terror. We didn't need it for Star Tours. With regards to Toy Story, we never would have had the confidence to jump into a line with a posted 45 minute wait, if we hadn't seen with our own eyes that it was much shorter than that. So, even though we could have managed Toy Story without FP, we wouldn't have. If that makes any sense.

FP+ did not hurt our day in any way. It was nice to have. We would not have been any better off with FP-, as it's unlikely the Tower or Terror return times would have been convenient for us, and the Toy Story FPs would have been all gone. In the old days, we would likely have pulled no FPs at all and opted to ride Star Tours a few more times instead.

 

[daytondisney]

For what it's worth, here's another example of how FP+ fit into our day and touring style:

Friday, April 11th

We had breakfast at the Wave, in the Contemporary Resort. After breakfast, we walked over to the Magic Kingdom, arriving shortly after opening (10am-ish).

We rode Barnstormer immediately, with no wait.

Buzz, a 10 minute wait (though it was posted as 20)

Small World, a walk-on.

Mickey's Philharmagic

The Liberty Belle Steamboat

After which, we weren't feeling any pressing need to ride other MK rides, as this was our fourth visit this week and we'd already ridden almost everything at least once. So, I spent the next two hours playing Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom and defeating Hades. Yay, me! The castmember who gave me my bonus reward cards was very amused.

We had lunch at the Tomorrowland Terrace, as I'd never tried it before. Nice salads!

Shopped, on our way out.

Back to the resort for a nap, and some quiet time together.

At about 5:30pm-ish, we headed out to Hollywood Studios (9:30pm close). Saw the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular.

Arrived for our 6-7pm Tower of Terror FP, just before 7pm. There was a little bit of a backup in front of the entrance, due to a large family group arguing with the CM. But once we were past them (less than 5 minutes later), it was a straight walk to the preshow. No wait. Posted Standby wait times were 40 minutes with a long bendy line and lots of FP returns.

Arrived for our 7-8pm Star Tours, just after 7pm. This was a waste of a FP as they were running both sides and it was a walk-on for everyone. No biggie. The castmember joked that we had an "extreme Fastpass".

Popped by the Pirate Experience, and got a return ticket for about an hour away. My husband was reluctant, as he hadn't really enjoyed previous shows.

Had dinner at the Backlot Express. The salad was... kinda icky. Lesson learned! Next time, I'll just order a hot dog.

Watched a bunch of high school marching bands going by. Those kids were GOOD!

Toured One Man's Dream, briefly (but didn't stay for the movie, as we'd already seen it earlier in the week).

Had a nice chat with a castmember cleaning the sidewalks. She's from Puerto Rico, first arrived on the student program, but returned after her time was up to work as a seasonal employee. She spends half her year at Disney, and then uses the money she's earned to spend the other half of the year travelling and seeing the world. Delightful girl!

Were inducted into Captain Jack's crew. I really like the new return ticket system, and I think the decision to shorten the show was a good one. It was the least crowded and most enjoyable version of the show that we'd ever experienced. They've done a good job of dealing with the "crammed into a hot, claustrophobic cell with too many sweaty people" aspect of the Experience.

8:30-ish, used FP+ to ride Toy Story Mania. Noticed that the lines were shrinking noticeably, and never mind that 60 minute posted wait. When we got back out, we saw that the wait had been reduced to 45 minutes, and the lines were continuing to shrink, even with people running across the park to jump in.

8:45-ish - rode Toy Story Mania in standby. Waited exactly 20 minutes to board a vehicle.

Shortly after nine, I would have LOVED to ride again, and we could have fit in one more ride (and possibly even two) before park close. But my husband had a headache, so it was time to head back to our resort.

Not everyone defines success in the same way, but for me, this was a VERY successful day. It's days like this that keep us returning to Disney, year after year.

Analysis: FP+ shortened our wait at the Tower of Terror. We didn't need it for Star Tours. With regards to Toy Story, we never would have had the confidence to jump into a line with a posted 45 minute wait, if we hadn't seen with our own eyes that it was much shorter than that. So, even though we could have managed Toy Story without FP, we wouldn't have. If that makes any sense.

FP+ did not hurt our day in any way. It was nice to have. We would not have been any better off with FP-, as it's unlikely the Tower or Terror return times would have been convenient for us, and the Toy Story FPs would have been all gone. In the old days, we would likely have pulled no FPs at all and opted to ride Star Tours a few more times instead.

My kind of day - except for the salads. Were they out of burgers?

 

[wisblue]

But that isn't true. Unless you went and didn't use FP-, how can you say you couldn't arrive early at RD for lots of rides, and then use FP later in the day?

All the FP+ Haters Brigade complain about that. I did it for years.

And it boils down to that old adage: 3<5 (or 6, or 7, or 8)

Of course, I did have to do all of that horrible OJ-esque running from land to land, getting my FPs. Who wouldn't do that to double their E ticket rides?

Again, I have yet to see ANYTHING that the average VACATIONER (not locals) are doing now that they couldn't do before, except sleep in and ride TSMM. And EVERYONE who comes back lists that as one of the reasons they love FP+.

-Jaosn

Because if you didn't want to stay in one park all day it was not possible to get FPs to use in the evening in a second park. Even if you wanted to return to the same park after a midday break, it was very difficult to get more than one FP to use in the evening as long as FP return times were enforced.

My adage is that I would rather have 3 FP that can allow me to avoid long lines at times that I choose than more than 3 that dictate to me when I have to use them.

I get it. You prefer the old paper FP system. But I don't understand why you and some others don't get that there are a lot of people who enjoy their trips more with FP+ than they did with paper FP. And a lot of those people are probably doing as many attractions as you did by running all over the park gathering FPs. They are just getting there in a different way that is more enjoyable for them.

The way we tour, we can usually do every E ticket attraction in the MK within 3 hours without using a FP. So, I have no need to double my E ticket rides by running around the park gathering FPs. One ride a day on anything is enough for me. Depending on the length of the trip we can usually do most of our favorites again on another day.

At the other 3 parks it takes even less time at opening to do all of the E ticket attractions once without a FP.

With FP+ we can do every E ticket attraction in the MK and 3 other major attractions in a second park on the same day on the busiest days of the year. That was not realistic with the paper FP system. In my opinion quality trumps quantity.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Because if you didn't want to stay in one park all day it was not possible to get FPs to use in the evening in a second park. Even if you wanted to return to the same park after a midday break, it was very difficult to get more than one FP to use in the evening as long as FP return times were enforced.

At certain times of year this is true. It was not true all year long. and I'm not even talking about really low crowd times. We frequently would start the day in Epcot/DHS/AK and hop to MK at night. Getting FPs at MK, even in the afternoon/evening and even for many headliners, wasn't difficult. MK and Epcot have always been our "hop to" parks - MK for rides, Epcot for WS.

Even in March last year, during spring break, we started the day at DHS, took a 3-4 hr break mid-day, and then went to AK for a few hours. There were plenty of FPs available in AK for the end of the day - plus the park got very empty after 5pm.

Like I said, I'm not saying this was possible all year, or even with every park. But it equally was not *impossible* to do all year/in some parks as the portion I am quoting implies.

I get it. You prefer the old paper FP system. But I don't understand why you and some others don't get that there are a lot of people who enjoy their trips more with FP+ than they did with paper FP. And a lot of those people are probably doing as many attractions as you did by running all over the park gathering FPs. They are just getting there in a different way that is more enjoyable for them.

I get that others prefer this system, and I'm happy for them, truly. Equally, I don't get why the "other side's" response is always about running all over to get FPs. We never had to do any criss-crossing or running. Most of those who I've seen comment on enjoying FP- more have also said they didn't have to criss cross to use more than 3 FPs/day.

With how we used to tour, we had quantity AND quality. I prefer that to having to make a choice between them. I don't get why that is so difficult to understand.

 

[wisblue]

At certain times of year this is true. It was not true all year long. and I'm not even talking about really low crowd times. We frequently would start the day in Epcot/DHS/AK and hop to MK at night. Getting FPs at MK, even in the afternoon/evening and even for many headliners, wasn't difficult. MK and Epcot have always been our "hop to" parks - MK for rides, Epcot for WS.

Even in March last year, during spring break, we started the day at DHS, took a 3-4 hr break mid-day, and then went to AK for a few hours. There were plenty of FPs available in AK for the end of the day - plus the park got very empty after 5pm.

Like I said, I'm not saying this was possible all year, or even with every park. But it equally was not *impossible* to do all year/in some parks as the portion I am quoting implies.




I get that others prefer this system, and I'm happy for them, truly. Equally, I don't get why the "other side's" response is always about running all over to get FPs. We never had to do any criss-crossing or running. Most of those who I've seen comment on enjoying FP- more have also said they didn't have to criss cross to use more than 3 FPs/day.

With how we used to tour, we had quantity AND quality. I prefer that to having to make a choice between them. I don't get why that is so difficult to understand.

Yes, time of year is critical, as I and others have said MANY times.

But, at Easter and Christmas, when we usually have to visit, getting quality FPs in the evening WAS impossible.

And yes, we have often gone to DAK on very busy days and know that DAK empties out later in the day. That being the case, who cares how many FPs you can get because you can pretty much do whatever you want without a significant wait? That's why I wouldn't usually bother with FP+ reservations there unless I intended to be there in the middle of the afternoon and didn't plan to go to another park later.

When I have been able to visit at less crowded times, FPs have been totally unnecessary for doing whatever we wanted to do.

BTW, because you love to nitpick and parse out the words that others use, I would like to point out that "the other side" does not ALWAYS respond about running all over the park.

As a member of what you would consider "the other side" the biggest reason we didn't use many FPs is that it was so difficult to get convenient times when we weren't planning to be in the park all day. In the morning, FP return times would often be in the middle of the day when we would be out of the park or eating lunch. When we arrived at a park in the late afternoon or early evening, the desirable FPs were either gone, or had return times that conflicted with dinner plans or nighttime entertainment, or were later than we intended to stay.

I wonder how long it will take some of the people who think that FP+ is a less than optimal ride management system to move on.

 

[OtherScott]

As a member of what you would consider "the other side" the biggest reason we didn't use many FPs is that it was so difficult to get convenient times when we weren't planning to be in the park all day. In the morning, FP return times would often be in the middle of the day when we would be out of the park or eating lunch. When we arrived at a park in the late afternoon or early evening, the desirable FPs were either gone, or had return times that conflicted with dinner plans or nighttime entertainment, or were later than we intended to stay.

This will be the most beneficial aspect of FP+ for me - the ability to know the return times before I walk to the rides, and how these times relate to everything else I have planned.

I used to use Touring Plans, which mapped out a logical route to minimize backtracking and crisscrossing. Even when return times did not directly conflict with another planned event, they often undermined the very reason I had planned the day out in the first place.

Then there was the "Do I pull this FP and wait, hoping to get an FP for that, or just pass on this and go to that?"