Just back(6/26-7/2)...a little sad

annacali

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Apr 25, 2007
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We (me and my two girls, ages 12 and 14) just got back tonight from a week in Orlando. We did 2 days at Disney (Epcot Monday, MK Tuesday) Disney Springs Weds then spent 3 days at Universal. Honestly we went this time for the HP Universal stuff but we wanted to do Disney too. I will preface my thought by saying that the last time we were at Disney was Thanksgiving week 2013. This was in the middle of the paper FP/FP+ switch. We were offsite (timeshare) and basically locked out of FP that week bc onsite guests could book FP+ and we could not and the paper FP were very limited. Before that point we were yearly WDW visitors since my girls were tiny. I was one who planned everything using crowd calendars, booked dining, knew how the FP system worked and we got pretty used to riding everything we wanted multiple times a day with the combination of rope drop and FPs. I went into a Thanksgiving trip fully prepared--except for the lack of FPs. It was a transition time and we understood but it felt like every day by noon our choice was to wait over an hour for everything (I had never seen Nemo and Small World with hour waits before!) or just give up and find other nonpark things to do. We did voice our concerns and Disney was nice enough to grant us 2 day tickets for a future visit. I watched the FP+ process unfold for a long while and was never convinced but decided when we were going to Universal for my HP obsessed 12 yo that we would give Disney another try.

Long story short we were disappointed.

For us Disney has lost its magic. I am not complaining really, just sad. I can't see paying $100/day to be guaranteed to ride 3 things with less than an hour wait. I found it difficult to predict what we would want to ride when 2 days in advance--can't imagine figuring it out months in advance. I can't stand waiting in lines that just don't move for no reason. In 3 days at Universal we waited longer than 30 min once--and did not have express pass of any sort. We rode all the HP rides repeatedly with less than 30 min waits. The lines there never stop for 10-15 min at a time. We rode Test Track twice back to back at rope drop. First time took 20 min. Second time after FP returns started it took an hour--same length line in a really low crowd situation(seriously Epcot was so empty--yet Frozen had 90 min waits). Similar experience at MK--more crowded but combination of wait times and weather caused us to get to ride exactly 4 rides (major storm, not Disneys fault--but still 4 rides before noon (bc 7DMT took 90 min at park opening) when we used to be able to do all of Fantasyland before noon). I think Disney could do a much better job of line management than they do. It seems like they are intentionally increasing wait times by holding the standby line. I can't imagine why a continuously moving ride like Ariel or Nemo should ever have a line that stops (other than briefly to load those that need more time) even with FP. It's totally me but standing in lines like that make me angry and then it ceases to be fun. I fully admit we were spoiled in the past and we choose not to aceept and go with this new reality. I am truly grateful we had those years when my kids were little. I still love Disney and will plan to get our Disney fix on Disney cruises in the future. Our week on the Fantasy in 2015 ranks up there as one of our best vacations ever. But putting theme parks on hold for now.
 
I can understand your pain although I have never experienced it. When we go (early September), we do 10 to 20 rides a day and never wait in any line for more than 25 minutes, but that's mostly due to the fact that there's almost always FP available, so while we're in the FP line for one ride, I'm already scheduling our next FP. If we had to go during busier times then I'd probably share your sentiment.
 
I would like to do the HP stuff at Universal some day. That being said. I rarely wait for more than 30 minutes for anything at a Disney park and that is the week before Christmas. Going at rope drop, I can get in 10 rides in 2 hours at MK. The do stop the Little Mermaid ride at intervals to let in FP holders but you can get more FP after you used your 3. I can understand how frustrating it can be to schedule FP so far out but I like knowing when my rides are.
 
Go to Disneyland in California. People who know how to "work" the FastPass system can still do it there and run circles around those who aren't as savvy. WDW was basically trying to even the playing field (they still serve the same number of guests per our at attractions, so it's not like the total amount of magic decreased, it is now just allocated differently). But DL (or any of the international Disney theme parks) sounds like it would accomplish what you want. And there's no advance booking of FP to worry about.
 

We (me and my two girls, ages 12 and 14) just got back tonight from a week in Orlando. We did 2 days at Disney (Epcot Monday, MK Tuesday) Disney Springs Weds then spent 3 days at Universal. Honestly we went this time for the HP Universal stuff but we wanted to do Disney too. I will preface my thought by saying that the last time we were at Disney was Thanksgiving week 2013. This was in the middle of the paper FP/FP+ switch. We were offsite (timeshare) and basically locked out of FP that week bc onsite guests could book FP+ and we could not and the paper FP were very limited. Before that point we were yearly WDW visitors since my girls were tiny. I was one who planned everything using crowd calendars, booked dining, knew how the FP system worked and we got pretty used to riding everything we wanted multiple times a day with the combination of rope drop and FPs. I went into a Thanksgiving trip fully prepared--except for the lack of FPs. It was a transition time and we understood but it felt like every day by noon our choice was to wait over an hour for everything (I had never seen Nemo and Small World with hour waits before!) or just give up and find other nonpark things to do. We did voice our concerns and Disney was nice enough to grant us 2 day tickets for a future visit. I watched the FP+ process unfold for a long while and was never convinced but decided when we were going to Universal for my HP obsessed 12 yo that we would give Disney another try.

Long story short we were disappointed.

For us Disney has lost its magic. I am not complaining really, just sad. I can't see paying $100/day to be guaranteed to ride 3 things with less than an hour wait. I found it difficult to predict what we would want to ride when 2 days in advance--can't imagine figuring it out months in advance. I can't stand waiting in lines that just don't move for no reason. In 3 days at Universal we waited longer than 30 min once--and did not have express pass of any sort. We rode all the HP rides repeatedly with less than 30 min waits. The lines there never stop for 10-15 min at a time. We rode Test Track twice back to back at rope drop. First time took 20 min. Second time after FP returns started it took an hour--same length line in a really low crowd situation(seriously Epcot was so empty--yet Frozen had 90 min waits). Similar experience at MK--more crowded but combination of wait times and weather caused us to get to ride exactly 4 rides (major storm, not Disneys fault--but still 4 rides before noon (bc 7DMT took 90 min at park opening) when we used to be able to do all of Fantasyland before noon). I think Disney could do a much better job of line management than they do. It seems like they are intentionally increasing wait times by holding the standby line. I can't imagine why a continuously moving ride like Ariel or Nemo should ever have a line that stops (other than briefly to load those that need more time) even with FP. It's totally me but standing in lines like that make me angry and then it ceases to be fun. I fully admit we were spoiled in the past and we choose not to aceept and go with this new reality. I am truly grateful we had those years when my kids were little. I still love Disney and will plan to get our Disney fix on Disney cruises in the future. Our week on the Fantasy in 2015 ranks up there as one of our best vacations ever. But putting theme parks on hold for now.
OP please ready the first post of these guidelines and change your title to include your travel dates
https://www.disboards.com/threads/here-now-and-just-back-thread-guidelines.3542917/
 
One of the problems with stand by line backups at WDW is that some of the CMs are clueless on how to manage the lines to keep them moving and keep the stand by wait times lower.

For example, my son and I rode PotC standby. When we entered the line, it was a 25 minute wait, but jumped up to 45 minutes after we were in line. The stand by line would move, then stall for 10 minutes. It did that repeatedly.

When we got up to the junction of the stand by and FP lines, the CM on duty there would not let folks in the stand by line go even when no one with FPs was coming. After waiting about 5 minutes, I started counting how many people with FPs she would let go. I counted over 270 people with FPs before she let anyone in stand by move into the queue for the boats!
 
I found it difficult to predict what we would want to ride when 2 days in advance--can't imagine figuring it out months in advance.
In your entire discussion of your most recent trip you do not mention using any FPs whatsoever. Did you? The reality is that Disney has designed a system where one needs a strategy to succeed and early planning (for ADRs and FPs) is essential for all but the slowest weeks of the year. While you can't imagine figuring out what you want to ride months in advance, you were competing against thousands, (tens of thousands), who did. They will "win" every time. This is truly a situation where you can't beat them so you have to join them. When Disney converted to its current system it was never shy about touting the fact that the goal was to get people to start thinking about their vacations weeks and months in advance as doing so would heighten expectations and increase the overall experience. Again, while you can't imagine plotting out ride strategies in advance, it is now part of the Disney gestalt. Touring Plans has made a business model out of this fact.
 
Sorry it was disappointing & that the magic is gone for you. Sounds like you have found a better fit at Universal and there is nothing wrong with that. I do think perspective, planning and flexibility play a factor in overall enjoyment of park time at Disney. As a comparison, I have a friend there currently and yesterday they were at MK and had an amazing time and by taking advantage of FP beyond their first 3, they never waited more than 15 minutes for anything.
 
I agree that the line management is terrible. I always have the worst experience with Splash. But, that being said, we do find that we are able to ride everything we want with minimal waits. I'm not a detailed planner or rope dropper either. And we visit at busy times. We've found that a little bit of planning (which park per day) and some flexibility work well for us.
 
The current Fastpass system can be "gamed," much like the old one could. I don't purport to be an expert, but I've seen people use Fastpass to their advantage. Honestly, for all the talk about how Fastpass+ forces folks to plan in advance, I haven't found that to be true. In my experience, there are two attractions in all of Walt Disney World where Fastpass times regularly sell out far in advance: Frozen Ever After and Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. I suppose we can now add Avatar Flight of Passage to that list. To prove that point, I just checked the Touring Plans Fastpass availability page and checked for tomorrow, a busy holiday. Every attraction has Fastpass times available except for the three I've already mentioned and Na'vi River Journey.

So to say that Fastpasses are difficult to come by, I don't really buy it. You could decide right now you wanted to go to the Magic Kingdom tomorrow and book prime times for virtually everything, from Peter Pan's Flight to Space Mountain. Maybe I'm being a Disney apologist, but I don't think so.
 
We (me and my two girls, ages 12 and 14) just got back tonight from a week in Orlando. We did 2 days at Disney (Epcot Monday, MK Tuesday) Disney Springs Weds then spent 3 days at Universal. Honestly we went this time for the HP Universal stuff but we wanted to do Disney too. I will preface my thought by saying that the last time we were at Disney was Thanksgiving week 2013. This was in the middle of the paper FP/FP+ switch. We were offsite (timeshare) and basically locked out of FP that week bc onsite guests could book FP+ and we could not and the paper FP were very limited. Before that point we were yearly WDW visitors since my girls were tiny. I was one who planned everything using crowd calendars, booked dining, knew how the FP system worked and we got pretty used to riding everything we wanted multiple times a day with the combination of rope drop and FPs. I went into a Thanksgiving trip fully prepared--except for the lack of FPs. It was a transition time and we understood but it felt like every day by noon our choice was to wait over an hour for everything (I had never seen Nemo and Small World with hour waits before!) or just give up and find other nonpark things to do. We did voice our concerns and Disney was nice enough to grant us 2 day tickets for a future visit. I watched the FP+ process unfold for a long while and was never convinced but decided when we were going to Universal for my HP obsessed 12 yo that we would give Disney another try.

Long story short we were disappointed.

For us Disney has lost its magic. I am not complaining really, just sad. I can't see paying $100/day to be guaranteed to ride 3 things with less than an hour wait. I found it difficult to predict what we would want to ride when 2 days in advance--can't imagine figuring it out months in advance. I can't stand waiting in lines that just don't move for no reason. In 3 days at Universal we waited longer than 30 min once--and did not have express pass of any sort. We rode all the HP rides repeatedly with less than 30 min waits. The lines there never stop for 10-15 min at a time. We rode Test Track twice back to back at rope drop. First time took 20 min. Second time after FP returns started it took an hour--same length line in a really low crowd situation(seriously Epcot was so empty--yet Frozen had 90 min waits). Similar experience at MK--more crowded but combination of wait times and weather caused us to get to ride exactly 4 rides (major storm, not Disneys fault--but still 4 rides before noon (bc 7DMT took 90 min at park opening) when we used to be able to do all of Fantasyland before noon). I think Disney could do a much better job of line management than they do. It seems like they are intentionally increasing wait times by holding the standby line. I can't imagine why a continuously moving ride like Ariel or Nemo should ever have a line that stops (other than briefly to load those that need more time) even with FP. It's totally me but standing in lines like that make me angry and then it ceases to be fun. I fully admit we were spoiled in the past and we choose not to aceept and go with this new reality. I am truly grateful we had those years when my kids were little. I still love Disney and will plan to get our Disney fix on Disney cruises in the future. Our week on the Fantasy in 2015 ranks up there as one of our best vacations ever. But putting theme parks on hold for now.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your visit, but from reading this it seems that a big part of the problem was that you didn't tour & use FP effectively, like you did when your girls were little. There was a way to tour then & get a lot done, which you apparently were good at. There is a way to tour now and get a lot done, but you haven't yet learned how.

We travel to WDW a few times a year and can vouch for the fact that you can still get Fantasyland done by noon. No problem. Your mistake was standing in line for Seven Dwarfs Mine Train for 90 minutes right after rope drop. That is the best touring time when you would have been able to get a lot of other Fantasyland rides done quickly. 7DMT would be the one to hit last, not first, if you weren't able to get there at the front of the rope drop pack, because it is the ride with the consistently longest wait out of the whole Magic Kingdom.

The CMs are not purposefully slowing things down. Some rides are just really popular & have long waits. Visitation is much higher than it was in the years when your girls were little, so there are going to be more lines than there were back in 2010. But if you use FP & touring plans effectively (just like you used to), you can get a great deal done.
 
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I can't see paying $100/day to be guaranteed to ride 3 things with less than an hour wait. I found it difficult to predict what we would want to ride when 2 days in advance--can't imagine figuring it out months in advance. I can't stand waiting in lines that just don't move for no reason.

I know it doesn't help now, but with FP+ you absolutely can ride 10+ rides a day without ever waiting in the standby line. Even on a day like Christmas, there are FPs waiting to be used. It just takes some time to learn the kinks, and I'd suggest reading the FP+ FAQ top to bottom.

It seems like they are intentionally increasing wait times by holding the standby line. I can't imagine why a continuously moving ride like Ariel or Nemo should ever have a line that stops (other than briefly to load those that need more time) even with FP.

Well, they are certainly not intentionally slowing down the lines... WDW is very busy, always is. That makes fully understanding the FP system all the more important.
 
I am sorry the magic is gone for you guys! We have not experienced this with FP+ yet, but we also don't try to get on a maximum number of rides on our trip. We go from morning to night but do a lot of shows, character meets, parade, other park entertainment in addition to rides. We do lots of rides too but we don't have a list of them we're checking off. We get on the ones we get on.

I was a FP+ hater because I generally hate planning so far in advance, but I did find value in it when I had a 1 year old and didn't have to run all over the park to get FP, stress about if they were gone, etc. Taking our 2 kids (DD is 2 & and DS will be 1) in a couple months and I am looking forward to knowing we will have Peter Pan and Frozen Ever After locked in :)

I took DD to Disneyland as well before DS was born. We LOVED Disneyland. Didn't use FP at all and had a totally fulfilling trip. Again, we do lots of things other than rides though.

I still miss paper FP but have warmed up to FP+. When my kids are older and more interested in maximizing rides, perhaps we will feel different. For now we will still enjoy our long, slow days at the parks!
 
Universal manages their Express Pass lines differently. It seems to be a set percentage of Express Pass then regular line. WDW's FP lines seem to get priority or at least a much higher percentage. Stand-by can feel truly Standby at Disney...their priority is making sure FP gets on. Universal also doesn't have it on their HP rides which IMO is a smart thing. I also don't think there are as many stoppages to assist people due to the nature of their rides in general

Anyway just pointing out that the two systems are different which is why the lines may have felt different.
 
So to say that Fastpasses are difficult to come by, I don't really buy it. You could decide right now you wanted to go to the Magic Kingdom tomorrow and book prime times for virtually everything, from Peter Pan's Flight to Space Mountain.
This is true to a degree, but party size is a factor as is timing. In a vacuum, seeing availability for an attraction doesn't always equate to piecing the puzzle together for a family. Ad hoc availability might not fit with your park choice for the day, or with ADRs or could entail a lot of park cross-crossing. All of this is better than no FP at all, but the point is that seeing FP availability for Space Mountain for one person tomorrow at 5:30 pm doesn't mean that families can or should rely on that as a substitute for planning. But I agree with you wholeheartedly that even last minute FPs could have assisted the OP greatly.
 
I'm sorry the trip didn't go as well as you thought it would have.

Sometimes you do need a break from Disney. It's easy to get burned out.

I don't hate the FastPass system but I can see how it could be frustrating when you have more than two people in your party. It's very easy to say you grabbed 5011 FastPasses when you're a party of 1 or 2. When it's a family of 6 it's a different story.
 
Universal manages their Express Pass lines differently. It seems to be a set percentage of Express Pass then regular line. WDW's FP lines seem to get priority or at least a much higher percentage. Stand-by can feel truly Standby at Disney...their priority is making sure FP gets on. Universal also doesn't have it on their HP rides which IMO is a smart thing. I also don't think there are as many stoppages to assist people due to the nature of their rides in general

Anyway just pointing out that the two systems are different which is why the lines may have felt different.

I remember hearing on a DIS Unplugged podcast that the FP/SB ratio is 10:1 for the busier times and attractions. Apparently the merge point is the post from heck for cast members.
 


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