Just another "Snowflake" vent

[TwinsinCA]

And people are like: there are drugs and bullies in middle school, really? You didn't have that growing up?

Not to the level you hear about it now. It was more of a high school issue -- not middle school. (At least where I grew up and I am just a couple years younger than you are.)

Bad enough 8th graders target other peers for bullying -- the thought that they might get involved with hurting a 4th grader is scary to me. Was Nancy 4 years older than you were?

At our middle school we DO have things going on I simply do not want my 9 year olds to have to deal with./be exposed to. It will be bad enough when they are 11, but at least then they have a bit more maturity to deal with it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't consider it helicopter parenting or looking out for your little snowflake to inquire how the school works. I also know there is a huge difference in the maturity level between 4th graders and 8th graders and while I don't care if the share the same school I certainly wouldn't want my 4th grader hanging out with the 8th graders in the cafeteria or on the bus.

Respectfully, how would you propose to prevent that?
While I understand times have changed, wayyyyyyyyyyyy back in the dark ages, when we only HAD two levels of school - elementary and high - aka 1964, I, a fourth grader, got to sit in the back of the bus with the eighth graders and learned how to sing, "We love you Beatles, oh yes we do-oo, we love you Beatles and we'll be true...". Nothing bad happened to us, or the first graders (or to us when we WERE first graders, with eighth graders on the same buses).

 

[Tink888]

Interesting thread. I don't think those parents are helicopter parents as much as just concerned though. Can't blame them for having questions.

My sister is in a district where they want to put 5th grade into the middle school and there is a lot of uproar about it. A group of parents put out a petition and apparently there have been studies done that found putting the lower grades in with older ones was actually detrimental. But.....you can find a study to say just about anything. There were also quite a few teachers who opposed it as well.

Our district is set up K-6, 7-8 and 9-12 and I like it. I know just with my own kids I've seen a huge maturity change from elementary to middle school. Our elementary school did do a lot of mentoring where kids from the high school would interact with the elementary students in Big Brother/Sister programs, etc.

My own district was set up the same way and I can remember we did have a girl who was pregnant in 7th grade and I also remember the exposure to drugs, etc. and this was in a Blue Ribbon District.

Personally, I think as long as you have good teachers, parents who are interested and involved with their child and their education, and a child who wants to learn, kids can thrive in any situation but I have to say that I am glad with the grade structure we have in our district.

 

[stepmommyof1]

I wouldn't like it.

 

[jodifla]

Respectfully, how would you propose to prevent that?
While I understand times have changed, wayyyyyyyyyyyy back in the dark ages, when we only HAD two levels of school - elementary and high - aka 1964, I, a fourth grader, got to sit in the back of the bus with the eighth graders and learned how to sing, "We love you Beatles, oh yes we do-oo, we love you Beatles and we'll be true...". Nothing bad happened to us, or the first graders (or to us when we WERE first graders, with eighth graders on the same buses).

In our district, it's solved by having the 4th graders not be in school with the 8th graders. Different buildings, different buses.

If you only have one bus for everyone, then I'd have the little kids sit up front, and the big kids in the back, where they want to sit anyway.

 

[hereyago]

Not to the level you hear about it now. It was more of a high school issue -- not middle school. (At least where I grew up and I am just a couple years younger than you are.)

Bad enough 8th graders target other peers for bullying -- the thought that they might get involved with hurting a 4th grader is scary to me. Was Nancy 4 years older than you were?

At our middle school we DO have things going on I simply do not want my 9 year olds to have to deal with./be exposed to. It will be bad enough when they are 11, but at least then they have a bit more maturity to deal with it.

OK, I did write about it wasn't as rampant now, but it still happened. Nancy was a grade higher then me. but bullies can be the same age.

what is going to happen when the kids get to 9th grade? that is when the fun really starts, how are they going to be able to be sheltered then? 10th grade, there were 3 girls pregnant in my sophmore class, by 12th grade one girl had 3 kids.

 

[kaytieeldr]

My sister is in a district where they want to put 5th grade into the middle school and there is a lot of uproar about it. A group of parents put out a petition and apparently there have been studies done that found putting the lower grades in with older ones was actually detrimental. But.....you can find a study to say just about anything. There were also quite a few teachers who opposed it as well.

Well, if you think about it, by simple definition, in a school system with twelve grades, fifth grade IS part of middle school: one to four, five to eight, nine to twelve.

Not offering an opinion either way, just using the dictionary definition to display that the change would be supportable

 

[TwinsinCA]

OK, I did write about it wasn't as rampant now, but it still happened. Nancy was a grade higher then me. but bullies can be the same age.

what is going to happen when the kids get to 9th grade? that is when the fun really starts, how are they going to be able to be sheltered then? 10th grade, there were 3 girls pregnant in my sophmore class, by 12th grade one girl had 3 kids.

They'll be 14 then. Different maturity level. I expect a 14 year old to deal with/understand seeing a pregnant girl at their school. I do not expect the same from a 4th grader.

 

[Tink888]

Well, if you think about it, by simple definition, in a school system with twelve grades, fifth grade IS part of middle school: one to four, five to eight, nine to twelve.

Not offering an opinion either way, just using the dictionary definition to display that the change would be supportable

Very true. I think it a lot of it comes down to what people grew up with/are used to. In this area, "middle school" has always been either 7-8 or 7,8 & 9. Some local districts have been able to introduce 6th grade into the middle school mix with little resistance but 5th is a new one.

A lot of it, IMHO, is human nature and people being resistant to change, fear of the unknown.

 

[punkin]

I'd say they know something you don't know.

 

[FireDancer]

And people are like: there are drugs and bullies in middle school, really? You didn't have that growing up? I am 42 and we had bullies, mine was named Nancy Walker and there was a kid that was nicknamed Wino, guess why? Things are more rampant now, but they did exist back then.

I don't really even think it is all that much more rampant. It appears to be because news travels much faster now then it did even when I was in middle school (I'm 32). We only really heard about the local cases and the national cases that were extraordinary. Now, every single case, even ones that end up being false, get publicity around the country in seconds through 24 hour news stations, blogs, and social media sites.

In many ways I think the world today is safer. People know about threats and if parents do a good job in preparing them they know how to deal with them. We no longer give authority figures a free pass because of their jobs. That was a big issue with many of the past abuse cases. Teachers, priests, adults were not questioned as much as now and while in some cases that can be a problem it is also a huge advantage in empowering kids to know how to deal with situations.

JMO of course but I am involved a lot in technology and have worked with helping parents know how to keep kids safe online so I have a little experience with the subject.

 

[kamik86]

Where I live we no longer have middle schools in two of the bigger towns in the county. they don't have the money to keep them open and the buildings are so bad they are unsafe. So the 6th and 7th graders are now in the middle school and 8th grade is now part of high school.

I don't know if the 6th and 7th graders still switch classes or not, none of the kids in our family are in these school systems. But this does mean that one school has kids from 4 to 13 and the high school can have 13 - 19 or so depending on the age of when the kids start.

I'm not surprised with the drugs in the high schools more didn't protest sending the 8th graders there... but then again most of the adults around here don't like to believe that our small town high schools have drugs. (Not that it matters since if an 8th grader wanted them in this small town they would surely have a few friends in high school already)

 

[INDISMOM]

Isn't it more because middle-schoolers are going through things like menstruation?

Probably not since I know of a lot of girls who started in elementary - some of them in 3rd grade.

 

[jodifla]

I don't really even think it is all that much more rampant. It appears to be because news travels much faster now then it did even when I was in middle school (I'm 32). We only really heard about the local cases and the national cases that were extraordinary. Now, every single case, even ones that end up being false, get publicity around the country in seconds through 24 hour news stations, blogs, and social media sites.

In many ways I think the world today is safer. People know about threats and if parents do a good job in preparing them they know how to deal with them. We no longer give authority figures a free pass because of their jobs. That was a big issue with many of the past abuse cases. Teachers, priests, adults were not questioned as much as now and while in some cases that can be a problem it is also a huge advantage in empowering kids to know how to deal with situations.

JMO of course but I am involved a lot in technology and have worked with helping parents know how to keep kids safe online so I have a little experience with the subject.

I agree that in many ways the world is safer.

But I still wouldn't mix 4th graders and 8th graders.

 

[RebeccaB]

hey, thanks for all the great replies!

This year was the first year k-12 all rode the same bus (for budget reasons mostly)...and amazingly everyone survived There of course were parents who freaked about the younger kids riding with the older kids, however, the middle school kids get the back of the bus, high school kids in the middle, and youngest up front. Presumably, they did this because the hs kids wouldn't be as bad influences ---make wiser choices with their comments---than the middle schoolers?? However again, most kids around here drive themselves or ride with friends once they reach hs age.
My child is an only, several of her friends and classmates have older siblings, so I guess I figure she's going to be exposed to things outside of school as well as at school.

I guess it does boil down to different perspectives.

 

[NotUrsula]

Isn't it more because middle-schoolers are going through things like menstruation?

Not at all, the boys have them, too.

It really is a privilege thing, mostly because the little kids tend to be slow in the bathroom, so they get scheduled bathroom breaks, whereas the older grades have to duck in between classes under normal circumstances -- without the little kids in the bathroom there is less chance that there will be a line.

PS: On the subject of buses, the rural district I grew up in used the same routes for all grades, but in some cases the high school kids got dropped off before some of the elementary kids were picked up. I rode the bus for an hour and 45 minutes in the morning, and for 2 hours and 20 minutes in the afternoon. They picked up in our rural area, went to HS for drop-off, then picked up some in-town elementary and jr. high kids and dropped them off at their respective schools. In the afternoon we left the high school at 2:35, picked up the jr. high, then picked up at 3 elementary schools before heading back out to the country. I normally got home at 5 minutes to 5. The kindies were on for a shorter time than the high school kids, but not that short -- and I don't remember any of them who didn't manage to handle that 2 hours per day on the bus after the first few days.

 

[mjkacmom]

I don't really even think it is all that much more rampant. It appears to be because news travels much faster now then it did even when I was in middle school (I'm 32). We only really heard about the local cases and the national cases that were extraordinary. Now, every single case, even ones that end up being false, get publicity around the country in seconds through 24 hour news stations, blogs, and social media sites.

In many ways I think the world today is safer. People know about threats and if parents do a good job in preparing them they know how to deal with them. We no longer give authority figures a free pass because of their jobs. That was a big issue with many of the past abuse cases. Teachers, priests, adults were not questioned as much as now and while in some cases that can be a problem it is also a huge advantage in empowering kids to know how to deal with situations.

JMO of course but I am involved a lot in technology and have worked with helping parents know how to keep kids safe online so I have a little experience with the subject.

I think some things are different, based on my experience (I grew up here, and attended the same schools as my kids). Drug use is starting earlier, and the drugs are scarier. Kids really didn't start using drugs until high school, and it was mostly pot, with a few hallucinagins thrown in. A handful used cocaine. Now, heroin is the drug of choice, and it's come down a lot in price.

As for sex, when I was in middle school, any girl known to engage in oral sex was considered a skank. Now, in some circles, it's all good clean fun (NOT in dd13's, thank goodness!).

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I guess it does boil down to different perspectives.

True. Your perspective may be different this time next year.

My kids started MS (6-8) this year and I was SHOCKED at some of the things that went on at school. DD came home many times asking me what certain words were (think C, D, W). My kids don't have virgin ears by any means, but some of the words they were initiated to in the hallways this year (and the context in which they were used) were just plain vulgar. There were also bullying issues from older kids in hallways, locker rooms and buses, and DD was severely harassed by a boy who wouldn't take no for an answer. This is just the tip of the iceberg (I could go on) - and after great elementary experiences.

My sense of it (having both a boy and a girl same age) is that for many of these kids, it's their first taste of freedom and, as kids, they don't always use it wisely or make great choices when they're in a group or wanting to be "accepted" by others. They show off and/or have very few limits on their behavior and they know they can get away with it. (And for most, it's not horrible behavior, like serious bullying, for instance, although that cerainly has occurred this year; it's foul mouthed juvenilism and bravado but is still obnoxious and hurtful at times.) I've seen some of this behavior with my own eyes from kids I've known since they were babies and I know for a fact that some of their parents would be completely shocked and horrified if they knew it was happening.

For kids not to be affected by it, IMO, they have to have a pretty good support system in place, good self esteem, and other, varied interests so that when one group is acting up, they can go to another group where they can be around like minded friends. (I feel sorry for some of the kids who may not have this.)

Many of our friends with kids the same age, especially the boys, were unaware of some of the things that went on at MS most of this year because their kids kept quiet about them. But once they started probing, they were pretty shocked, too. One friend of my son's was being harassed every day, every period at his locker by another boy but never said anything until his parents brought it up to him; he also admitted there were issues at gym and on the bus, etc. Prior to that they thought their son was having a great MS experience.

I myself attended a 1-8 school and didn't experience some of the things at school that my own children have. This has been a real eye opener for me.

 

[Magpie]

The public school my children attend runs from Junior Kindergarten (like preschool) through Grade 8. Last year there were (to the great amusement of the older children) 666 students.

School spirit is wonderful. The children are very supportive of each other. I'm not aware of any pregnant students, but even if there were, I'm sure the children would not punish that student for her misfortune. Neither of my children has ever mentioned any issues with drug abuse, and we do talk. The big "scandal" last year was when several of the boys in my daughter's class squirted water all over the boy's locker room. As a result the door to the locker room was removed for the rest of the year, since they couldn't be trusted to be responsible out of the sight/hearing of the teacher. One of the first things I noticed is that there are no grates or mesh on the lower floor windows. Evidently vandalism has never been an issue.

The older children, from grade 5 and up, are each partnered with a younger child. My 8th grade daughter's reading buddy is a little boy in 3rd grade, and she spends a lot of time and thought on picking out books she thinks will interest him.

The kindergartners have their own playground, but all the other children share a playground. My 7th grade son calls the smaller ones "munchkins", and generally avoids them. 7th and 8th graders are allowed to leave school property for lunch, so they're rarely on the playground anyway.

My children do take the afternoon bus with a contingent of kindergartners, which they find somewhat irritating. Apparently the little ones bounce and shriek and pull my son's hair. His sister says they love him, and they're just trying to show it.

I think my children have learned a lot of patience and kindness from sharing a school with younger children. I think mixing up the age groups is a very good idea - it keeps middle school from being quite as much of a hormonal pressure cooker and it teaches the older kids to be responsible.

 

[NotUrsula]

My sense of it (having both a boy and a girl same age) is that for many of these kids, it's their first taste of freedom and, as kids, they don't always use it wisely or make great choices when they're in a group or wanting to be "accepted" by others. They show off and/or have very few limits on their behavior and they know they can get away with it. (And for most, it's not horrible behavior, like serious bullying, for instance, although that cerainly has occurred this year; it's foul mouthed juvenilism and bravado but is still obnoxious and hurtful at times.) I've seen some of this behavior with my own eyes from kids I've known since they were babies and I know for a fact that some of their parents would be completely shocked and horrified if they knew it was happening.

I'd agree, and I think that it's one of the drawbacks of having a separate middle school, as opposed to K-8. There is no taste of freedom here; it's the same school that they have always been in, and the teachers are just as out and about because of the presence of the littles. Not putting them in a new school until 9th grade seems to help immensely; by nearly 15 they have gotten most of the urge to indulge in petty nonsense out of their systems.