Just added on 300 pts at OKW direct with Disney at $135 per point thru 2057. Added magical beginnings and that reduced the price to $115 per point.

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

By the way I peeked through all the WDW resorts and unsurprisingly I think, Disney reacquired Riviera the most, followed by CCV, VGF, SSR, AKV, and OKW.

So the three most recently in active sales followed by the three largest, albeit out of order. Some of this is ROFR, but mostly there’s a whole lotta foreclosin goin on. Although these numbers are much lower than when I did this during the pandemic.

Thank you for looking through the data! It does appear that Disney is (somehow!) selling BCV and BWV points direct at a faster clip than it’s acquiring them…so there’s no reason for them to flash/fire sale them which would only drag down RIV/Poly/CFW sales (not sure it’s possible to drag down CFW sales, tbh). If they are sitting on premium resort points, they could consider throwing in a discount like “Buy 500 RIV points without incentives and we’ll throw in 50 BWV points for free.”

I think (absent a weak economy) Disney is incentivized to keep major discounts few and far between….if you can get a smoking deal every six months, it will be extremely hard to convince people to open their wallet at/above $200, which appears to be what they are trying to do.

 

[CastAStone]

It does appear that Disney is (somehow!) selling BCV and BWV points direct at a faster clip than it’s acquiring them

At a glance most of the sales looked very small (25-50) which may explain the discrepancy in number of contracts not explained by Disney issuing new deeds for non-sales reasons.

 

[atthebeachclub]

By the way I peeked through all the WDW resorts and unsurprisingly I think, Disney reacquired Riviera the most, followed by CCV, VGF, SSR, AKV, and OKW.

So the three most recently in active sales followed by the three largest, albeit out of order. Some of this is ROFR, but mostly there’s a whole lotta foreclosin goin on. Although these numbers are much lower than when I did this during the pandemic.

I am very curious if this is mostly due to nonpayment of dues, or nonpayment of mortgages on timeshares. If the second, I then am wondering how often these are financed.

 

[CastAStone]

I am very curious if this is mostly due to nonpayment of dues, or nonpayment of mortgages on timeshares. If the second, I then am wondering how often these are financed.

So (other than ROFR), it’s mostly going to be outright surrenders or non-payment of dues. Disney acquiring a contract for non-payment of a loan is increasingly rare, but perhaps not for the reason you’d expect.

If you don’t pay DVC your annual dues, they can (eventually) just foreclose your contract and take it. Often they will just ask for it in lieu of foreclosing and people will give it since the credit impact is different.

If you don’t pay your loan, the contract will wind up at a public auction, like a repossessed car would. It used to be that Disney lowballed most of these contracts and won them back for cheap. Nowadays more people are bidding against Disney, and Disney isn’t getting nearly as many contracts back that way anymore.

If you don’t pay either, it goes the loan/auction route, and whoever wins the contract is required to pay the back dues for Disney to load the points!

 

[atthebeachclub]

So (other than ROFR), it’s mostly going to be outright surrenders or non-payment of dues. Disney acquiring a contract for non-payment of a loan is increasingly rare, but perhaps not for the reason you’d expect.

If you don’t pay DVC your annual dues, they can (eventually) just foreclose your contract and take it. Often they will just ask for it in lieu of foreclosing and people will give it since the credit impact is different.

If you don’t pay your loan, the contract will wind up at a public auction, like a repossessed car would. It used to be that Disney lowballed most of these contracts and won them back for cheap. Nowadays more people are bidding against Disney, and Disney isn’t getting nearly as many contracts back that way anymore.

If you don’t pay either, it goes the loan/auction route, and whoever wins the contract is required to pay the back dues for Disney to load the points!

I had no idea you could buy resale DVC at public auction. That’s a new way to obtain cheap points!

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

If you don’t pay your loan, the contract will wind up at a public auction, like a repossessed car would. It used to be that Disney lowballed most of these contracts and won them back for cheap. Nowadays more people are bidding against Disney, and Disney isn’t getting nearly as many contracts back that way anymore.

If you don’t pay either, it goes the loan/auction route, and whoever wins the contract is required to pay the back dues for Disney to load the points!

Whoa, cool. How do we find these public auctions?

 

[CastAStone]

Whoa, cool. How do we find these public auctions?

Post 10 here had a link; I’m not sure if it’s still right:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/b...tings-going-to-auction-in-march-2019.3732551/

DVCnews did an article about it a long time ago which covers some of the basics, but some things have changed as well. I played around with buying a contract this way for a while but I haven’t kept up to date on it the last few years, so I’m not the best person to advise!

https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...00-winning-a-dvc-deed-via-public-foreclosure-

Most important thing to know is that if you win you become legally responsible for whatever back-payments the contract owes to Disney, and unless something has changed, you won’t know how much that is ahead of time!

 

[Coronator]

I am very curious if this is mostly due to nonpayment of dues, or nonpayment of mortgages on timeshares. If the second, I then am wondering how often these are financed.

The statistic I’ve seen/heard is that 2 out of 3 DVC contracts are financed.

 

[Sandisw]

They also generally sell above $110 (BWV) and $130 (BCV) unless they are stripped. When Disney sells them they need to add the previous UY points…so hard to imagine they could have a “flash sale” below $175/200 and make much of a profit.

DVD can’t add points back if a contract is stripped. If they have other points in stock in that unit already in the current UY then y can repackage but if not, then those points don’t allow a sale.

For example, if the contract is 200 points for Unit 1, but the 2024 and 2025 points are gone, then all that goes into the bucket for Unit 1 are 200 points for 2026 and beyond

If they don’t have any 2024 and 2025 points in the Unit 1 bucket, they can’t sell those points.

 

[Chili327]

I am very curious if this is mostly due to nonpayment of dues, or nonpayment of mortgages on timeshares. If the second, I then am wondering how often these are financed.

Too often.

 

[Mikey15]

Post 10 here had a link; I’m not sure if it’s still right:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/b...tings-going-to-auction-in-march-2019.3732551/

DVCnews did an article about it a long time ago which covers some of the basics, but some things have changed as well. I played around with buying a contract this way for a while but I haven’t kept up to date on it the last few years, so I’m not the best person to advise!

https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...00-winning-a-dvc-deed-via-public-foreclosure-

Most important thing to know is that if you win you become legally responsible for whatever back-payments the contract owes to Disney, and unless something has changed, you won’t know how much that is ahead of time!

Thanks for this interesting stuff!

I was able to find the next one coming up with a little searching, just to understand how this all works. A week from today there’s an $8,700 judgement up for foreclosure auction, and it’s 280 points OKW, which the grantee purchased resale in 2017 and Disney liened in 2022. Based on the “$5,853.43” amount for delinquent assessments (before interest and court fees), I’m guessing the 2022 & 2021 dues went unpaid, plus perhaps a portion unpaid from 2020?

So presumably the winning bidder will need to pay ‘23 and ‘24 dues, plus the bid. Curious to check back later and see what that works out to per point compared to market for OKW’42!

 

[bigkats]

Hello . I have a question .. if one buys a OKW resale contract without the 2057 extension, Can it be extended by the new owner?

 

[AstroBlasters]

Hello . I have a question .. if one buys a OKW resale contract without the 2057 extension, Can it be extended by the new owner?

No

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

No

Correct answer but honestly odd policy for Disney. They should offer the 16 year extension and convert to direct for like $60-75/pt if people want it. Easier (and I think more profitable) than ROFRing it.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Correct answer but honestly odd policy for Disney. They should offer the 16 year extension and convert to direct for like $60-75/pt if people want it. Easier (and I think more profitable) than ROFRing it.

Despite the cluster that occured previously I still think this might be possible in the last few years of the 2042 expiry. Mostly because of the weirdness of the extensions of some OKW points, direct sales, and the lack of desirability of OKW for cash rooms. Might take a bit of pressure off the system to extend as well. And give Disney an out on creating two dues charts for OKW.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Despite the cluster that occured previously I still think this might be possible in the last few years of the 2042 expiry. Mostly because of the weirdness of the extensions of some OKW points, direct sales, and the lack of desirability of OKW for cash rooms. Might take a bit of pressure off the system to extend as well. And give Disney an out on creating two dues charts for OKW.

Unless it had 100% uptake they would have to create 2 dues charts.

 

[Chili327]

Hello . I have a question .. if one buys a OKW resale contract without the 2057 extension, Can it be extended by the new owner?

Not at this time. But you never know what could happen down the road, I would think if the price is reasonable Disney would just take it in ROFR, & resell it as 2057.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Unless it had 100% uptake they would have to create 2 dues charts.

What if declining the offer of purchasing a contract extension included forfeiting any relief in dues? It would be worth it to pay a few dollars toward longer term useful life items and room rehab in dues than buy an extension a 2042 owner doesn't want.

Maybe that's not possible but I imagine it might be.

 

[AstroBlasters]

What if declining the offer of purchasing a contract extension included forfeiting any relief in dues? It would be worth it to pay a few dollars toward longer term useful life items and room rehab in dues than buy an extension a 2042 owner doesn't want.

Maybe that's not possible but I imagine it might be.

You can’t charge people for a refurb that will happen after their contract expiration…. so it’s not really a “relief in dues”.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Right. We've talked about this a lot. But when will the dues start to shift for 2042 owners? Useful life of some components has got to be getting close soon to exceeding time remaining.