Junior High and Allergies

[michael's mom]

Good to know about chips ahoy- they weren't always a safe food from what I recall. I can only say that you must have a very small school. There is no way that parents would let the school dictate their food shopping lists here. Not that I would ever want a child to be ill but that is a lot to ask of people especially with the economy being what it is.

Chips Ahoy, Oreo's, some Keebler cookies are safe. In fact, DS loves them. Our town is small, but we have over 500 kids in our preK-5 school. Some parents were upset, but most were understanding. It's really much easier than you'd think to avoid peanuts. I was shocked doing my food shopping after DS was hospitalized that pretty much nothing changed on my list. I am careful as to what type of granola I buy, I don't buy Chips Deluxe cookies from Keebler. I only buy certain types of pretzels for DH.

I know that I get many kids in my class with the allergy because of my son's diagnosis. The staff knows I'll be diligent in educating my students. I'm sure that many teachers only restrict actual peanut products. But I talk to my students at the beginning of the year about the allergy and tell them what types of food sometimes have peanuts (I have yet to find a granola bar without the label) and you'd be surprised at how many times they come up to me and tell me that Mommy gave them xxx and that they are worried. Each time, the student is worried about their friend and has no problem whatsoever finding another snack. They don't feel short changed. It's actually very refreshing to see how compassionate a child can be in what seems to be an otherwise compassionless world we're now living in (not referriing to just this topic). I often will have snacks in my class for the occasional forgetfullness anyway so they know there's something.

 

[Hannathy]

Well, first of all, as MANY have said, it is more difficult to remove the peanut protein than proteins of other allergens.

.

No it is not. No one has shown me a study saying it is. I listed a study saying it isn't harder. Please direct me where to look. I happen to trust Johns Hopkins myself.

It is not difficult to remove the peanut protein.

And again someone eating a PB&J sandwich or a cookie away from the child is not going to kill them if reasonable precautions are taken. Again my DD ate with a friend who is allergic and everyone at the table including his brother ate peanut butter and he never had a problem all year. In fact they never even knew except for his brother and a close friend, he didn't wnat to make a big deal out of it.

Are you going to go to the child's dorm and police the rooms? shouldn't they know by Jr High how to take precautions? What are they going to do in high school where kids come and go and bring take out into the cafeteria and go out to lunch and come back? You can't change the world it is better to prepare them to deal with it.

 

[michael's mom]

No it is not. No one has shown me a study saying it is. I listed a study saying it isn't harder. Please direct me where to look. I happen to trust Johns Hopkins myself.

It is not difficult to remove the peanut protein.

And again someone eating a PB&J sandwich or a cookie away from the child is not going to kill them if reasonable precautions are taken. Again my DD ate with a friend who is allergic and everyone at the table including his brother ate peanut butter and he never had a problem all year. In fact they never even knew except for his brother and a close friend, he didn't wnat to make a big deal out of it.

Are you going to go to the child's dorm and police the rooms? shouldn't they know by Jr High how to take precautions? What are they going to do in high school where kids come and go and bring take out into the cafeteria and go out to lunch and come back? You can't change the world it is better to prepare them to deal with it.

Yes it is. You need a strong cleaner that can remove the oil to wash the tables, unlike with the other allergies. You said this yourself. I didn't say it was hard, I said it was harder.

It's quite possible that your DD's friend's allergy isn't as severe as some others. That's also a choice that that child made with his parents as to keeping his allergy quiet. And eating a PB&J away from a child isn't the issue. It's the contact made after the fact: the door handles, the water fountain, the knobs on a sink or a toilet flusher if not automatic as many are. It's the mouse/keyboard in the shared computer classroom.

Well, I also know that our HS does not allow students to come and go as they please. And, I would expect that my son's roommate in college be careful. And yes, a Jr. High student should know how to take care of himself. And I'm sure the OP's son does. My son already knows some very important (age appropriate) things about keeping himself safe. But, this boy does not have a choice about going to school, does not have a choice about where to eat, therefore, it's not the real world, where those choices exist. Yes, work is real, but PA people don't have to eat in a specific place. There is absolutely no reason for peanut butter cookies to be served in this cafeteria. It takes away the "healthy protein" argument by being a cookie.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Yes it is. You need a strong cleaner that can remove the oil to wash the tables, unlike with the other allergies. You said this yourself. I didn't say it was hard, I said it was harder.

It's quite possible that your DD's friend's allergy isn't as severe as some others. That's also a choice that that child made with his parents as to keeping his allergy quiet. And eating a PB&J away from a child isn't the issue. It's the contact made after the fact: the door handles, the water fountain, the knobs on a sink or a toilet flusher if not automatic as many are. It's the mouse/keyboard in the shared computer classroom.
Well, I also know that our HS does not allow students to come and go as they please. And, I would expect that my son's roommate in college be careful. And yes, a Jr. High student should know how to take care of himself. And I'm sure the OP's son does. My son already knows some very important (age appropriate) things about keeping himself safe. But, this boy does not have a choice about going to school, does not have a choice about where to eat, therefore, it's not the real world, where those choices exist. Yes, work is real, but PA people don't have to eat in a specific place. There is absolutely no reason for peanut butter cookies to be served in this cafeteria. It takes away the "healthy protein" argument by being a cookie.

Here's the thing though- you cannot stop those from being contaminated. What if a kid eats pb for breakfast? My kids do all the time. Sure they wash up but sometimes they might miss something. Some kids brush their teeth when they wake up and not after breakfast. There is going to be residue there as well. For all the people who do not keep a nut free house there is the possibility of a handle etc. of being contaminated. In a lot of ways I agree with the poster who said that you cannot control the world so you have to figure ways to live in it. I am not being cruel but that is the truth. If a child comes over here and has an allergy I will of course not serve them nuts etc. But I cannot guarantee that they won't come in contact with it in my home. Who knows if one of the kids wiped their hands on something that I didn't see or on a toy etc. I think that you can't keep a perfect environment so we have to learn to cope in the one we have. I hope I am saying this right...

 

[michael's mom]

Here's the thing though- you cannot stop those from being contaminated. What if a kid eats pb for breakfast? My kids do all the time. Sure they wash up but sometimes they might miss something. Some kids brush their teeth when they wake up and not after breakfast. There is going to be residue there as well. For all the people who do not keep a nut free house there is the possibility of a handle etc. of being contaminated. In a lot of ways I agree with the poster who said that you cannot control the world so you have to figure ways to live in it. I am not being cruel but that is the truth. If a child comes over here and has an allergy I will of course not serve them nuts etc. But I cannot guarantee that they won't come in contact with it in my home. Who knows if one of the kids wiped their hands on something that I didn't see or on a toy etc. I think that you can't keep a perfect environment so we have to learn to cope in the one we have. I hope I am saying this right...

You are right. But, not allowing it to be eaten at school reduces the risk, which is what parents are asking for. Any parent of a PA child who thinks that their kid is 100% safe is in trouble. I know that there are risks to my son wherever he goes. I wipe down tables at restaurants. I used to bring in our own booster seat rather than use high chairs provided. I even still use the shopping cart cover when he shops with me if he's going to be sitting in the cart. But, I am also grateful that the leaders in my school district find it important to play a part in reducing those risks to him.

 

[Hannathy]

Yes it is. You need a strong cleaner that can remove the oil to wash the tables, unlike with the other allergies. You said this yourself. I didn't say it was hard, I said it was harder.

No actually they said it was quite simple mild cleaners, even water only removed half of the proteins. Your statement about the doors and computers is exactly why IMO it makes no sense to not serve peanut products when a thousand kids in a high school could come in eating peanut butter cups or sandwiches, cookies and touch everything. The schools can barely find the kids with drugs I seriously doubt they will be searching lockers and back packs for peanuts.
You may get a roommate that cooperates but you aren't going to get 700 kids in the dorm to not use peanut butter when it is cheap and easy and stores easily.
It is better to learn to live than getting them used to a false sense of security.

 

[michael's mom]

No actually they said it was quite simple mild cleaners, even water only removed half of the proteins. Your statement about the doors and computers is exactly why IMO it makes no sense to not serve peanut products when a thousand kids in a high school could come in eating peanut butter cups or sandwiches, cookies and touch everything. The schools can barely find the kids with drugs I seriously doubt they will be searching lockers and back packs for peanuts.
You may get a roommate that cooperates but you aren't going to get 700 kids in the dorm to not use peanut butter when it is cheap and easy and stores easily.
It is better to learn to live than getting them used to a false sense of security.

Okay, so you think it makes more sense to have 1000 kids who may or may not have peanut butter to contaminate areas in school also eating it in the cafeteria, increasing the risks? There isn't a false sense of security. And anyone with this allergy (or their parents) who think otherwise are going to have trouble. No one said it eliminates the risk all together. But reducing the risk is the goal. By your reasoning, there's no reason to get vaccinated. There's no guarantee that you're not going to get chicken pox anyway right? But, the risk of chicken pox is decreased if you do get the vaccination. Why bother wearing a seatbelt in a car or keep our kids in carseats? We could still die or become severely injured in an accident, but the risks of that happening decrease when we use a restraint device. We do many things throughout our daily lives to help decrease our chances of getting sick or injured. This is just one of those cases but because it's for only a piece of the population, people have a problem with it.

 

[Hannathy]

This is just one of those cases but because it's for only a piece of the population, people have a problem with it.

Exactly now you are getting it You don't have the majority of the population change drastically and expensively for a very small group of people.

Wearing seat belts is taking personal responsibility, I don't care if you do whether you wear them or not doesn't make a difference to me, But if I take care of myself and wear one I am safer.

 

[michael's mom]

Exactly now you are getting it You don't have the majority of the population change drastically and expensively for a very small group of people.

Wearing seat belts is taking personal responsibility, I don't care if you do whether you wear them or not doesn't make a difference to me, But if I take care of myself and wear one I am safer.

It's not drastic and it's not expensive and it's not a very small group of people. Or else my school system wouldn't have done it, given that huge thing called "bad economy" that we're dealing with right now. No one is asking the world to not eat peanut butter (or whatever the product is). They are being asked not to eat it in school. I ask you not to drink alcohol when you drive. Essentially the same difference. I'm not asking you to eliminate alcohol altogether. Just before you are putting my life at risk. Because the number of people you will come in contact with, thus putting at risk, on your way home from wherever is only a "small number" we shouldn't ask this of you? (and it's the metaphorical you, not you specifically).

And if it's just taking personal responsibility, please tell me why vaccinations are required before entering school? There's a big list of vaccines that kids are required to have before entering school to keep others safe. Not just themselves.

 

[princessmom29]

Shellfish are a regional thing. Our schoosl serve them regularly, along with peanut products.

There is not a single valid scientific study that says peanut residue is harder to remove. If schools are using proper sanitation procedure, then it should not be an issue. Any antimicrobial should take care of it.

It is harder than a lot of people think to remove all nut products from the menu. Many, many mass produced foods that cafeterias use are processed in palnts that also process nuts. Lots of breaded meats, things like french fries, and most baked goods cannot be guranteesd contamination free. It would be just as difficult as eliminating eggs or milk to elminate all portential for exposure. I owuld be willing to be t that even supposed "nut free schools" are still serving products porcessed on equipment that processes peanuts. It is almost imposible to order from a major food supplier and truly be nut free. Same thing with milk or eggs. Everything would have to be made from scratch and that would drive the price of a school lunch up so much that no one would buy it.

I still just don't see why it is the school's responsibility to police a middle school child's allergy exposure. My 6 year old is capable of donig that on her own. I could see it for a toddler or young preschooler who truly doesn't know any better. I had forgotten about it because it ws so much of a non-issue, but DD had a child in her K3 with a nut allergy. we just made sure that everything sent in for parties was nut free. The kids could still have PBJ, they just washed up after and the teacher checked hands and cleaned the table. Problem solved! No need to ban the peanuts to keep the child safe. It really is very simple to do.

 

[michael's mom]

Shellfish are a regional thing. Our schoosl serve them regularly, along with peanut products.

There is not a single valid scientific study that says peanut residue is harder to remove. If schools are using proper sanitation procedure, then it should not be an issue. Any antimicrobial should take care of it.

It is harder than a lot of people think to remove all nut products from the menu. Many, many mass produced foods that cafeterias use are processed in palnts that also process nuts. Lots of breaded meats, things like french fries, and most baked goods cannot be guranteesd contamination free. It would be just as difficult as eliminating eggs or milk to elminate all portential for exposure. I owuld be willing to be t that even supposed "nut free schools" are still serving products porcessed on equipment that processes peanuts. It is almost imposible to order from a major food supplier and truly be nut free. Same thing with milk or eggs. Everything would have to be made from scratch and that would drive the price of a school lunch up so much that no one would buy it.

I still just don't see why it is the school's responsibility to police a middle school child's allergy exposure. My 6 year old is capable of donig that on her own. I could see it for a toddler or young preschooler who truly doesn't know any better. I had forgotten about it because it ws so much of a non-issue, but DD had a child in her K3 with a nut allergy. we just made sure that everything sent in for parties was nut free. The kids could still have PBJ, they just washed up after and the teacher checked hands and cleaned the table. Problem solved! No need to ban the peanuts to keep the child safe. It really is very simple to do.

Our school lunch program very quickly found a food supplier that could help us be a peanut-free environment and our lunch prices did not increase. I'd like to see you and the three other adults supervising a cafeteria check to make sure that every kid washed their hands thoroughly. The principal in our district decided it was more cost effective to eliminate the food than paying enough staff to police the hand washing.

 

[tigger51276]

Shellfish are a regional thing. Our schoosl serve them regularly, along with peanut products.

There is not a single valid scientific study that says peanut residue is harder to remove. If schools are using proper sanitation procedure, then it should not be an issue. Any antimicrobial should take care of it.

It is harder than a lot of people think to remove all nut products from the menu. Many, many mass produced foods that cafeterias use are processed in palnts that also process nuts. Lots of breaded meats, things like french fries, and most baked goods cannot be guranteesd contamination free. It would be just as difficult as eliminating eggs or milk to elminate all portential for exposure. I owuld be willing to be t that even supposed "nut free schools" are still serving products porcessed on equipment that processes peanuts. It is almost imposible to order from a major food supplier and truly be nut free. Same thing with milk or eggs. Everything would have to be made from scratch and that would drive the price of a school lunch up so much that no one would buy it.

I still just don't see why it is the school's responsibility to police a middle school child's allergy exposure. My 6 year old is capable of donig that on her own. I could see it for a toddler or young preschooler who truly doesn't know any better. I had forgotten about it because it ws so much of a non-issue, but DD had a child in her K3 with a nut allergy. we just made sure that everything sent in for parties was nut free. The kids could still have PBJ, they just washed up after and the teacher checked hands and cleaned the table. Problem solved! No need to ban the peanuts to keep the child safe. It really is very simple to do.

I have to agree with this. My DD6's school has a large peanut free table at school that you don't have to have a PA to sit at you just can't have any peanut containing items. Kids without PA sit with their friends at the table all the time and non of the kids seem to feel discriminated against because they sit at a different table. Why would they think they are being discriminated against unless their parent tells them they are. Honestly a 6 year old most likely has no idea what the word is. During snack time because they have snack in their classrooms, if a kid comes to school with a peanut containing snack then that child sits in the hallway to eat their snack and there is usually a lot of kids in the hallways. I do not feel my daughter is being discriminated against because she has to sit in the hall often because she LOVES peanut butter and that is about one of the only proteins I'm able to get her to eat. She will often ask for something other than peanut butter for lunch because she wants to sit with her friends at the peanut free table and so I'll send her with a bagel or cereal.
If my child had a life threatening allergy and I was that concerned about her health and well being, then I would either homeschool her myself or have her with a private tutor. My daughter and I do both have food allergies, mine more severe than hers but I'd never think to demand or even suggest that because she has a food allergy that they can't serve milk, eggs or shellfish. My daughter knows what she can and can't eat at 6 years old. She's had it her whole life so she knows better. If my 6 year old knows what to stay away from, then I would expect that a kid in Jr High would also know especially if it is that life threatening. Just my 2cents though.

 

[michael's mom]

I still just don't see why it is the school's responsibility to police a middle school child's allergy exposure. My 6 year old is capable of donig that on her own. I could see it for a toddler or young preschooler who truly doesn't know any better. I had forgotten about it because it ws so much of a non-issue, but DD had a child in her K3 with a nut allergy. we just made sure that everything sent in for parties was nut free. The kids could still have PBJ, they just washed up after and the teacher checked hands and cleaned the table. Problem solved! No need to ban the peanuts to keep the child safe. It really is very simple to do.

I guess because it's the school's responsibility to keep the kids safe throughout the day. I will say, my school is an elementary school and many parents of PA kids felt comfortable with their upper elementary (gr.3+) and beyond being in a school that allowed others to bring in pb products, but not serving it. They felt their children were prepared enough to not eat what they weren't given. But having it served in the cafeteria was still not a comfortable situation for them.

You must have a very mature 6 year old because as one who teaches 6 year olds daily (and has been for 10 years), while most know what they can and can't eat, and will vocalize it, they are still kids and they are not old enough to be responsible for this on their own. They don't know how to read a product label yet. They know what products that they can't have if they've been around them before. DS knows he can't have M&M's because he's seen them and I've told him he couldn't have them. But he's never been around Chex Mix to know he can't have that. Of all of the first graders that I have taught (over 300), a very small handful would be capable of the decision making needed to truly be responsible for their own allergy policing.

 

[michael's mom]

I have to agree with this. My DD6's school has a large peanut free table at school that you don't have to have a PA to sit at you just can't have any peanut containing items. Kids without PA sit with their friends at the table all the time and non of the kids seem to feel discriminated against because they sit at a different table. Why would they think they are being discriminated against unless their parent tells them they are. Honestly a 6 year old most likely has no idea what the word is. During snack time because they have snack in their classrooms, if a kid comes to school with a peanut containing snack then that child sits in the hallway to eat their snack and there is usually a lot of kids in the hallways. I do not feel my daughter is being discriminated against because she has to sit in the hall often because she LOVES peanut butter and that is about one of the only proteins I'm able to get her to eat. She will often ask for something other than peanut butter for lunch because she wants to sit with her friends at the peanut free table and so I'll send her with a bagel or cereal.
If my child had a life threatening allergy and I was that concerned about her health and well being, then I would either homeschool her myself or have her with a private tutor. My daughter and I do both have food allergies, mine more severe than hers but I'd never think to demand or even suggest that because she has a food allergy that they can't serve milk, eggs or shellfish. My daughter knows what she can and can't eat at 6 years old. She's had it her whole life so she knows better. If my 6 year old knows what to stay away from, then I would expect that a kid in Jr High would also know especially if it is that life threatening. Just my 2cents though.

I doubt highly that a kid would say they feel discriminated against. But, they are capable of knowing what it feels like to feel left out. I would never teach my son that word (in that context) but it wouldn't change the feeling. And yes, kids do know how that feels.

And you shouldn't feel like she is being discriminated against for sitting in the hallway because she chooses to bring in peanut butter. Choice is the key word. You didn't choose to have a food allergy, and shouldn't be ostracized because you do.

It's nice that you have the option to homeschool or pay for a private tutor. Some of us are not that fortunate and full time jobs are a necessity. We have to send our kids to school and hope that the school is doing whatever is necessary to safeguard all of the children that are there.

 

[Hannathy]

You must have a very mature 6 year old because as one who teaches 6 year olds daily (and has been for 10 years), while most know what they can and can't eat, and will vocalize it, they are still kids and they are not old enough to be responsible for this on their own. They don't know how to read a product label yet. They know what products that they can't have if they've been around them before. DS knows he can't have M&M's because he's seen them and I've told him he couldn't have them. But he's never been around Chex Mix to know he can't have that. Of all of the first graders that I have taught (over 300), a very small handful would be capable of the decision making needed to truly be responsible for their own allergy policing.

I have to disagree with this. When I was a diabetic Educator we had many 6 yr olds who had a better grip on their diet and what they could and couldn't eat than their parents. They knew enough what to eat in school and what to avoid so I think a peanut allergy kid could be taught to not eat anything they didn't know for sure was safe. Pre-school yes I understand but not by 6.

 

[michael's mom]

I have to disagree with this. When I was a diabetic Educator we had many 6 yr olds who had a better grip on their diet and what they could and couldn't eat than their parents. They knew enough what to eat in school and what to avoid so I think a peanut allergy kid could be taught to not eat anything they didn't know for sure was safe. Pre-school yes I understand but not by 6.

No problem here with you disagreeing, but I am with 6 year olds every day in school and what they say is different than what they do. With you, they tell you what they know. And that's a start. But they need to transfer that knowledge into their daily practice and they're not as successful with that as they should be before we can expect them to be responsible for themselves.

 

[badblackpug]

I still think we are missing the point that the OP's son in in JR High! This is a child that is old enough to know what he can and cannot eat, and to make sure that the table is wiped down before he sits, even if he has to do it himself. I know a 12 year old can wipe down a table. Mine does every day. It is part of clearing the table at our house.

My ex's daughter had a seafood allergy. Pretty much by kindergarten she knew what she could and couldn't eat. If she had any questions she would go to whatever adult was in charge and say "I am allergic to seafood, can I have this?"

Strong chemicals are not needed to remove nut proteins. Most commonly available household cleansers will do the trick. Formula 409, Mr. Clean, Fantastic, Windex, Clorox Wipes, etc. If the concern were really that great I would send Clorox wipes to school with my kid and tell them to wipe the table off himself. Again, this is not a toddler or even a kindergartner, this is a preteen/teen. By the way, at my kids school, the kids clean the table after they are done eating, and they use cleanser. If your kids school is not cleaning the table after use, then that should be a complaint in it's own.

Cross contamination is possible for any allergen. Many commercially prepared foods use milk solids. Very easy to contaminate other foods. Same with wheat, in the form of flour, and these 2 things are very easily airborne. It is not fair to say that because it is easier to eliminate peanuts that they should, if you are going to eliminate allergens for one allergic population, you should do it for all. I'm sure milk and wheat allergic kids want to be like everyone else, and I am sure their parents want them to be safe, too. Also, the PP is correct, you cannot police what people serve and eat at home. My son eats peanut butter toast in the morning a lot. That boy loves peanut butter. I will also admit that he is a mess. That child cannot eat a meal without spilling some of it on himself. he, no doubt, goes to school with peanut residue somewhere.

...and nut allergies effect only approximately 1.1% of the U.S. population. Still a relatively small number. Milk allergies effect 3%, egg allergies effect 2%.

 

[tigger51276]

I doubt highly that a kid would say they feel discriminated against. But, they are capable of knowing what it feels like to feel left out. I would never teach my son that word (in that context) but it wouldn't change the feeling. And yes, kids do know how that feels.

And you shouldn't feel like she is being discriminated against for sitting in the hallway because she chooses to bring in peanut butter. Choice is the key word. You didn't choose to have a food allergy, and shouldn't be ostracized because you do.

It's nice that you have the option to homeschool or pay for a private tutor. Some of us are not that fortunate and full time jobs are a necessity. We have to send our kids to school and hope that the school is doing whatever is necessary to safeguard all of the children that are there.

I don't have the option to homeschool or pay for a private tutor, however if I felt my childs life was truly in that much danger that would lead to her death because of her being in school where peanuts and nut products are then I'm sorry but no job is worth losing my daughter over and I would certainly quit my job in an instant (as I would expect any parent would do) to stay home and homeschool her and get a job part time at night/weekends or even keep my full time job and get a part time job to pay for a tutor. You don't have to send your child(ren) to public school, there are other options, they just cost money which most people can't/won't pay for because public school is free.

 

[okeydokey]

A child is not going to die if you eat a cookie and they have taken personal responsibility to protect themselves.

See this is the sort of sensationalism that has lead to the backlash against the peanut allergy folks.

They certainly could. Many have allergies that severe. I Personally, I would have no problem giving up the cookie during school hours if that meant a safe environment for someone else, but I was raised that way.

 

[dogluva]

I cannot understand this:

My son is allergic to peanuts and tree nuts. Yes he is aware, yes he avoids them, yes he can be in the room with another child's PB&J.

What I do not comprehend is the school placing peanut butter containing items on the school menu that is purchased by most of the students in the school. If two hundred children at lunch are eating peanut butter cookies, my child will be exposed. And each exposure is potentially making him more sensitive.

When I brought this up to the school nurse today she just said others had voiced the same concern. Ok, so what is done? Nothing.

I asked the cafe lady who was loading the lunch cards, she said I just keep the peanut items 'away' from the other food. Umm, cross contamination can happen easily and with serious results.

I do not know how to go about this, I do not want to make it a "peanut free school", if others want to bring in peanut items it wouldn't have the possiblitiy of coming in contact with my son's lunch. I just want to have the school stop serving peanuts to the entire population, make something else for lunch without nuts/peanuts.

Has anyone else has this situation? How did you change it?

You can pack his lunch.