Jungle Book 2 Thoughts Thread

[DVC-Landbaron]

Did he actually equate Jungle Book 2 (a cute G rated animated feature about a boy, a jungle, a bear, and a harmless adventure - even though it is a disappointment compared to what Disney used to be capable of) to Grand Theft Auto (a violent R rated video game that glamorizes crime) and the impact that these two items of entertainment might have on a child

No. He equated parenting methods. He equated saying no to child when they want to see garbage and saying yes to a child when the venue (including G rated material) is appropriate! Is that really so hard to understand?!?!? I cannot believe that you're really that thick!! I take it that you just wanted me to respond again! So....

I guess you need simple allegories. I promise this one will be better. And it is a true story although a little dated. (Of course I refused to take her. Instead we chose whatever Disney flick was out at the time. She thought she was too old and too cool for Disney, but had a marvelous time anyway!!) The girl of the story is now 21 and has highly developed taste in entertainment!!

DCV-LB to his ten year old (or so) daughter..........

"Why of course you can see Mutant Ninja Turtles 3! After all, you've seen the ads and ALL the kids are talking about it at school! And let's face it, Mr. Kidds lets his kids rule the roost. I can't see how I can possibly stop you from ruling mine!!"

NOW does your argument still make sense?

 

[raidermatt]

DK, I don't think anyone is saying its bad parenting to take your kid to see JB2, but stepping back and looking at the big picture, certainly you can see that some will decide not to because of the low quality they expect from the film.

Likewise, they will let that perception affect the next Disney animated theatrical release. Of course not everyone will decide not to go see Bears because of RtN and JB2, but certainly some will not. It doesn't take many to erase the theatrical profits made from these sequels.

And its not that they are not going to do something their child wants, its just that all children want many things, and the parent must pick and choose. There's just no way that the parents perception of value and quality won't have an impact. So, instead of the JB2, maybe they buy a DVD of something else, or go to Chuck E. Cheese, or whatever.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK. I just finished reading the rest of the thread. If Mr. Kidds took offense at HB2K’s remarks he’ll go ballistic at mine. So rather than change my post, or delete it, I will try a little clarification here.

Not because adult "brand monkeys" and "Disney apologists" want to, but kids see the previews and make thier own decisions about what they want to see.

… and…

but I'm not about to disappoint my child over the slip in Disney animation.

Mr. Kidds. These are the two key thoughts in your post which seemed to imply to me (and it seems HB2K) that you allowed your child to make the decisions regarding their (and as such, your families’) movie selections. You don’t state the age, but I’m assuming that the child is under 10 (or so) and as such needs your approval, if not your actual transportation, on what and what not to see.

My analogy (and subsequent post) was to point out that children suffer many disappoints. My son is EXTREMELY upset with my wife and me for not allowing him to purchase or rent Grand Theft Auto. My point, of course, is like the Rolling Stones song, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”. And that goes for very inappropriate ‘stuff’ (Grand Theft) or garbage (JB2). And parents, at least in my house, make those decisions!! NOT THE KIDS!!!

Sorry if I offended you. But I needed to balance the:

Please tell me Baron, I saw the winkie, but do I seriously have to respond to your rediculous premise and point out that, once again, things are not as black and white as you would always paint them

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Forgive me sticking my snowy schnoz in here, but I think there might still be room for misinterpretation.

DK, I suspect that all HB2K and the Baron are pointing out, is that ultimately, by letting your child go to one of these, you made the decision that it was not "trashy enough" to keep them from it. The quotes

I'm not about to disappoint my child over the slip in Disney animation

and

I don't feel it's worth the cost of bringing him to the theater for such drivel.

are simply parenting decisions that draw a different line regarding a movie and some intangible, arbitrary principle; not a good decision and a bad decision on a "parenting" scale.

Not to anyone in particular, just in general... in this kind of forum, with its communicative limitations, if it's at all possible to view anything as something other than a personal attack, its safest to assume that the intent was benign.

-WFH

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Thanks Mr. Head! You took the words right out of my mouth!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

After reading the last page or so I thought it was Parenting 101As a father of two college age sons let me offer my humble insite. First, as the parent, I am the undisputed boss,( well,when DW isn't looking). That doesn't mean I didn't occasionally cave in to the plea's of my kids to see/do/own things. But that did not include caving to things that were inappropriate for them. JB2 may be a poorly made film but that doesn't make it wrong for me to allow them to see it. Some off the retro channels show cartoons I saw as a kid.I loved them then,can't imagine why now. Allowing kids to see JB2 now will not brainwash them into accepting crap thier entire life. In this regard, GTA and JB2 are apples & oranges. GTA is probably a great but inappropriate game for kids while JB2 is a harmless flick only painfull to the parent who gets stuck sitting thru it with the kids.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

WOW!!! Again, that wasn't the point!!

GTA is probably a great but inappropriate game for kids while JB2 is a harmless flick only painfull to the parent who gets stuck sitting thru it with the kids.

The point was that sometimes kids don't always get what they want. And that includes, but is not limited to, inappropriate material (Grand Theft). The "not limited to" also includes junk, poorly made drivel things you just can't afford, too much of something, etc, etc, etc!!!!

It seemed to me that Mr. Kidds was making the argument that just because his child wanted to go, he had to acquiesce!! I thought that was a lousy argument and extremely convoluted logic.

Did I finally write what I wanted to say??

 

[Another Voice]

"Allowing kids to see JB2 now will not brainwash them into accepting crap thier entire life. "

No, it really won't. But it will waste an hour of their young lives, an hour that could have been spent watching something grand, something they will remember for the rest of their lives. Every kid remembers seeing 'Bambi'; no one's going to remember 'Book 2'.

For the company, they put out garbage instead of something good. It was their decision; something cheap and disposable rather than something that will last for a generation.

It's not that 'Jungle Book 2' is a crime and should not be seen. It's just that there are much better things that could have been with everyone's time and effort.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Quite a turn.....now let me make a few comments. First off...

Sorry kids. I didn't mean for it to come across as a personal attack.

No problem . I do have to say that your post struck me as saying that I (or anyone who takes their kid to JB2) was a mindless parent who allows my children to chart the course of how I spend my money, giving my child every piece of cheapo crap just because they want it. I trust you when you say that was not your intent. Now on to more important things. You have a few key things that make me scratch my head.

If little Tommy wants to see JB2 because the commercial convinced him it's something it's not

Something it's not? I don't think most kids have been duped. The commercials are simple. It is Jungle Book 2. If the kid is old enough to have seen Jungle Book they are led to believe that it is a follow on to Jungle Book. The advertisements show Mogli, Baleu, (sorry for the bad spelling on those names) etc. Nothing misleading there. I hardly expect a 4 year old to make judegements about film quality based on a commercial - heck, most grown ups can't do it. No, my daughter got exactly what was advertised.

I don't care that the movie is getting rough reviews, I trust the company who gave me the past experinces will continue to give me good ones.

But if down the road they take that trust for granted and start making super hero movies which resemble the old Batman TV show and try to pawn them off as theatrical releases, I'm going to stop giving them that trust.

I ask how you came to such a reasonable position? Might it be from experience? You have lived life, learned things, and you make future decisions accordingly. You grew up, in a sense. Should our kids not be allowed to learn and grow up for themselves? Now before Baron gets rediculous, that doesn't mean we should let them play in traffic, but he will probably equate that with seeing JB2 . So maybe JB2 is crap. Maybe that is all Disney puts out in the future. I'll give my daughter the leeway and freedom afforded any other person to make some decisions and learn some lessons and maybe she will come to the same conclusions you have - and keep in mind here that we are talking about a G rated movie.

I don't know how many movies I go to in a year...however many I want to

I go to a movie based on previous performance, advertising, ratings, etc.

You see, I believe that kids are people - just like you or I. My daughter can ask to go to as many age appropriate movies she wants. There is nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't mean she will go to all of them. Futhermore, she is making her choices the same way you are, based on what she has seen in the way of previous Disney performances, advertising, and ratings. So she isn't as discerning as you when it comes to Disney films - but rather than living her life for her I'll let her experience life and come to her own conclusions.

I don't approve of spending my money on cheaply made, ultra marketed, glorified Sat. Morning cartoons shown in a movie theater.

Niether do I - and we do feel differently about JB2. I realize it is not a Disney masterpiece, but it wasn't quite as bad as what you describe. In case you missed the main part of my previous post - going to something like JB2 is about more than the movie for my family. It is a great family experience to go to the theatre to see a movie the whole family can see together. We spend our money to give our children meaningful experiences. Was JB2 the film worth the $20 we dropped? Maybe, maybe not - depends on who you ask. Was the experience of going together as a family, letting my daughter see something on the big screen, maybe letting her learn a little more about Disney films and giving her a basis on which to judge future offerings worth the $20? Absolutely. Now I sound like a visa commercial .

will your daugher bring her children to Disney's products if they keep becoming more and more shabby? How about her children? Will they bring their children?

Am I supposed to make those decisions for her? I hope to raise my kids to be able to make those decisions for themselves, but unless they have a base of experience they will never be able to.

 

[DisneyKidds]

He equated saying no to child when they want to see garbage and saying yes to a child when the venue (including G rated material) is appropriate!

Now the Baron rules the world - or at least he thinks he does. He has decreed what is and is not an appropriate venue for a child (with a little help from Mr. Grumpy). Apparently a G rated Disney movie is not such a thing .

NOW does your argument still make sense?

Exactly what argument are you referring to? If it is your garbage about "seeing all the ads, all the kids are talking about it, Mr. Kidds kids rule the roost, etc" - you dreamed up that drivel, not me. That is not my argument.

As for your Ninja Turtles story - good for you. There are plenty of things we say no to when it comes to our daughter - and to Ninja Turtles our answer would have been the same. That still has nothing to do with JB2.

your post which seemed to imply to me (and it seems HB2K) that you allowed your child to make the decisions regarding their (and as such, your families’) movie selections.

You need to read all the words my friend. My children certainly make decisions about what they want to see, but that doesn't mean they see it.

My analogy (and subsequent post) was to point out that children suffer many disappoints........and........ “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”.

No kidding . It is no different in the Kidds household.

It seemed to me that Mr. Kidds was making the argument that just because his child wanted to go, he had to acquiesce!! I thought that was a lousy argument and extremely convoluted logic.

This was not any kind of argument that I made. You may have finally said what you want, but it has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by Walt's Frozen Head
Forgive me sticking my snowy schnoz in here, but I think there might still be room for misinterpretation.

DK, I suspect that all HB2K and the Baron are pointing out, is that ultimately, by letting your child go to one of these, you made the decision that it was not "trashy enough" to keep them from it. The quotesandare simply parenting decisions that draw a different line regarding a movie and some intangible, arbitrary principle; not a good decision and a bad decision on a "parenting" scale.

Not to anyone in particular, just in general... in this kind of forum, with its communicative limitations, if it's at all possible to view anything as something other than a personal attack, its safest to assume that the intent was benign.

-WFH

Not to belabor the point, as HB2K and I have moved on, but I have no problem with differences of opinion on what is worth going to, and for what reasons you go. Pesky little comments about "mindless parents who give their kids every piece of crap they ask for" doesn't fit that category.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Now the Baron rules the world - or at least he thinks he does. He has decreed what is and is not an appropriate venue for a child (with a little help from Mr. Grumpy).

Pass

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
Pass

Thank heaven for small favors .

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Last word-itis again, Mr. Kidds?

 

[BRERALEX]

just saw it. tried to take a nap then realized that this f%^&*$ movie was only 50 minutes long give or take a minute.

It had a song that sounded right out of Aladdin (the first song in JB2) {never had a friend like me}

It had a quote that felt so MUFASA oooo MUFASA "you deliberately disobeyed me' ok i know its only like 4 words but it was comming from a 'strong' male figure to a young male figure it was straight up lion king feel.

Scar....i mean shere khan....wait was it scar? no nono it was shere khan well he felt just like Scar fell off a cliff like scar and sounded way too close to scar which has always been the case that scar sounded like shere khan but man i waited for the credits to check it wasnt Jeremy Irons.

i paid matinee price but still felt jipped. this should have been direct to video or better yet just stuck it unto ABC on sunday or something.

Daredevil a Thumbs down though which I think looks really good in the trailers.

looked great in previews how funny the same shots seen clearly in trailers are like pitch black in the threatre. Colin Farrell* kicks major butt so did Bennie from the block but man the plot and how it flowed was VOMITVOMIT

 

[raidermatt]

DK, the only real problem I have with your argument is that by putting so much of the decision making on your child, marketing is going to be the overiding factor in what she wants to see.

For instance, Charlotte's Web would probably be a better use of any child's time vs. JB2. Sesame Street better than the hot "cartoon of the month". That doesn't mean anyone thinks the parent should make all of these choices for a child but sometimes it has to happen, even if both choices are rated G.

My guess is you actually agree with this, and just have a different opinion about whether JB2 was a waste of time or not. Its just that from your original post, I think most got the impression that in virtually every case, you would simply ask your child, "What do you want to watch/do?", and go with what they said.

Again, my guess is this is not what you really meant, but it's coming off that way at times (IMHO).

 

[DisneyKidds]

I think most got the impression that in virtually every case, you would simply ask your child, "What do you want to watch/do?", and go with what they said.

Virtually every case . Were talking about one lousy movie. Talk about inappropriately reading into things .

You want completely unneccesary clarification, you've got it. Here is the first of my egregious statements .......

"I know you really want to see Jungle Book 2 sweatheart, but Disney didn't put their best foot forward with this piece of animation so we are going to boycot the film and write a letter to Disney instead in the hopes that the people who run the business will realize that they need to make better films"

.........and the unneccesary clarification..........

This is not a reason I am going to tell my daughter that I've decided we won't see a film. Reasons I have given her for not seeing movies that she has asked to see include things like a movie being for older kids, a movie being too scary, a movie that has fighting, or a movie that has various other subject matter that we don't agree with or believe in. It happens all the time.

The next egregious statement .....

I'm not about to disappoint my child over the slip in Disney animation........

.............and unneccesary clarification...............

when I have decided that the film is appropriate for my daughter, I feel she will enjoy it even if it is not Disney's best work, and I feel it will provide an enjoyable experience that our entire family can have together.

And this egregious statement ..........

but kids see the previews and make thier own decisions about what they want to see.........

..........and unneccesary clarification............

just as any other person expresses thought, opinions, and desires, not that they are going to get to see everything they decide they want to.

Geez Louise..................

the only real problem I have with your argument is that by putting so much of the decision making on your child, marketing is going to be the overiding factor in what she wants to see.

The problem here is that you are mixing two very different things. Of course marketing is going to be the overiding factor in what a four year old wants to see - there is no way to prevent that unless you lock them in a closet, but that doesn't mean it will be the overiding factor in what she gets to see. She doesn't make the final decision and I never said she did.

For instance, Charlotte's Web would probably be a better use of any child's time vs. JB2. Sesame Street better than the hot "cartoon of the month".

We've got plenty of quality literature in the house and we read it every night. We have plenty of classic movies as well. However, Charlotte's Web isn't exactly out there to provide a movie theatre experience, is it? Furthermore, we are well aware of what is or is not best for a child when it comes to cartoons - that is why you won't find Sponge Bob Square Pants, Rugrats or the Simpsons on in our house. I really don't see why taking my daughter to a harmless, unobjectionable (unless you are obsessed with the "downfall of Disney animation") G rated Disney movie, lack of obsession with the level of quality in a Disney animated sequel, and consideration of my childs wishes as one factor in my decision making process requires that I have to explain all of this to you - but there you have it. If you can read as much into those few innocuous statements I made I guess posts are going to have to get a lot longer around here, or maybe we should all use our heads a little as we read.

 

[raidermatt]

Fair enough...

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Fair enough...

Thanks for understanding .

PS - This post does not represent an attempt to get the last word .

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

..........and unnecessary clarification............

Not so unnecessary if so many people came away with the same impression. I'm glad you provided it.

However, it was somewhat unnecessary as that is NOT the point. No one, especially me, is questioning your parenting skills and/or decisions.

We are questioning that you would use this 'argument' as a rationalization for not, “hitting them in the wallet”. That was how the whole thing started.

AV and Scoop were disagreeing about how to send Disney a message that this attempt at film making STINKS!! Scoop said:

I don't think these things have nearly the effect you give them credit for. Heck, if those things worked we could expect to expand hours and get the butter back simply with some persistent tapping of the SEND button.

So I'll Alex, I'll take "Boycotts Work Better" for $500.

Mr. Matt combined the two concepts into:

I think AV's point is that yes, the only way to get their attention is to hit 'em in the wallet, but if you want them to understand WHY you are hitting them in the wallet, you have to TELL them. Because they don't figure it out on their own.

To which you said you couldn’t do that because it would disappoint your daughter and she wanted to see it.

And that is what I found ridiculous. NOT that you would go see. NOT that you allowed your daughter to see it. NOT that your parenting skills were in question.

But that you would use your four year old daughter’s desire to see it, and you not wanting to disappoint her, as a reason not to, “hit them in the wallet!!!!

Now I will say that it is awfully easy to get sidetracked when discussing these things. I was sucked in, as was HB2K, Mr. Matt, AV and even the frozen one made a cameo appearance.

FOR THE RECORD:

1- I don’t think that seeing this film will turn your brain to mush

2- It is not tantamount to child abuse

3- I never intended to question you as a parent

4- I apologize for being sucked into the moment and arguing in an illogical and somewhat personal fashion concentrating on the periphery instead of the core subject.

5- I will try to stay more focused on the issues. (but I’ve said that before!!)

Friends again, Mr. Kidds?