Jr High--new rules, opinion please. UPDATE

[luvsJack]

I have thought long and hard about posting this. I got blasted last time and don't really want to deal with that again. I just would like some opinions because maybe there is something I am not seeing.

DD has been out of school for a week with a respiratory infection. So, whatever I decide to do will be after she goes back and I know exactly what is happening. All of this is according to some of the other students and one or two parents, they have implemented some new rules that sound outrageous!

1. No breaks. At all--this has been going back and forth all year, at first it was due to a "grant" that had something to do with eating breakfast, then it was due to talking in the halls. They had their breaks for about two months.

2. Part of their activity period has been taken--this period is for PE, Show Choir, Band, Library. (kids not in band or show choir go to PE or Library on rotating days) They took 15 minutes or so away most days and Library completely.

3. At lunch they must sit with their class and there can be no talking at all

4. The hallway is now lined with duct tape. When walking in the hall they must walk between the duct tape and the wall. If they are leaving a class on the left side of the hallway and going to the classroom directly across the hall, they have to walk down the hall to the end and back up to the classroom.

Their crime? Not doing as well as expected on "Success Maker", which I don't even know what is exactly, but do know that its some type of tests done online. These are done in one class--ICT and it has been said that they are scoring lower than the 4th graders. This is according to a student's understanding of what the principal explained to them.

I fail to see how these punishments are going to change scores on these tests, but maybe someone here knows something about these methods that I am not seeing

On the state standardized tests, MCT, the majority are scoring proficient and advanced--so they do know the material. From what I can understand, the Success Maker, is simply a way to practice for the MCT and doesn't actually count for anything.


Please, understand, I have only talked to the principal twice about anything going on. Once when it seemed the entire class was losing privileges because a few were failing, and I simply asked what would be done for the ones that were passing. She never answered me, but some of their privileges were given back the following week. The other time was about a bully situation.

I do not say much because of a connection between my boss, the former superintendent of the school district (who has recently retired) and one of dd's teachers. There is too strong of a connection and I didn't feel comfortable saying anything because of it.

I would never go in to see the principal due simply to what a student told me. I will wait until dd goes back to school and get her experience. And if I do approach her it will be more of a "why is this happening" not an accusation.

But, before I do anything, I thought maybe someone had some experience with something like this that would say "yes, it will make them increase the scores on these tests">

 

[HelenePA]

can I ask what kind of break was taken away? I never had breaks in school.

 

[happygirl]

I have thought long and hard about posting this. I got blasted last time and don't really want to deal with that again. I just would like some opinions because maybe there is something I am not seeing.

DD has been out of school for a week with a respiratory infection. So, whatever I decide to do will be after she goes back and I know exactly what is happening. All of this is according to some of the other students and one or two parents, they have implemented some new rules that sound outrageous!

1. No breaks. At all--this has been going back and forth all year, at first it was due to a "grant" that had something to do with eating breakfast, then it was due to talking in the halls. They had their breaks for about two months.

2. Part of their activity period has been taken--this period is for PE, Show Choir, Band, Library. (kids not in band or show choir go to PE or Library on rotating days) They took 15 minutes or so away most days and Library completely.

3. At lunch they must sit with their class and there can be no talking at all

4. The hallway is now lined with duct tape. When walking in the hall they must walk between the duct tape and the wall. If they are leaving a class on the left side of the hallway and going to the classroom directly across the hall, they have to walk down the hall to the end and back up to the classroom.

Their crime? Not doing as well as expected on "Success Maker", which I don't even know what is exactly, but do know that its some type of tests done online. These are done in one class--ICT and it has been said that they are scoring lower than the 4th graders. This is according to a student's understanding of what the principal explained to them.

I fail to see how these punishments are going to change scores on these tests, but maybe someone here knows something about these methods that I am not seeing

On the state standardized tests, MCT, the majority are scoring proficient and advanced--so they do know the material. From what I can understand, the Success Maker, is simply a way to practice for the MCT and doesn't actually count for anything.


Please, understand, I have only talked to the principal twice about anything going on. Once when it seemed the entire class was losing privileges because a few were failing, and I simply asked what would be done for the ones that were passing. She never answered me, but some of their privileges were given back the following week. The other time was about a bully situation.

I do not say much because of a connection between my boss, the former superintendent of the school district (who has recently retired) and one of dd's teachers. There is too strong of a connection and I didn't feel comfortable saying anything because of it.

I would never go in to see the principal due simply to what a student told me. I will wait until dd goes back to school and get her experience. And if I do approach her it will be more of a "why is this happening" not an accusation.

But, before I do anything, I thought maybe someone had some experience with something like this that would say "yes, it will make them increase the scores on these tests">

The things you have stated makes me thing it was a discpline problems, not academic releated. If it's academic releated that not how I would think would handle it.

 

[hereyago]

First off: OP, hope your DD feels better soon.

As for school: My DD13 (8th grade) doesn't have any breaks except lunch break. They do have to sit with their class, but can talk as long as it's not yelling,etc.
DD doesn't have a set library time/ day. They can go by themselves if they finish their work.

As for the hallways, I can only think maybe the kids were disorderly in the halls and the tape is to help"guide" them how to walk in hall perhaps. But that is kind of kooky if a student has a classroom across the hall and has to the "journey" to get there.

These things don't sound punishment for low scores, but discipline.

With the 15 minutes or so from activity period gone, what do they do? I mean do they go back to their regular class and use that time as extra time in the class?

 

[MinnieFan4ever]

When I was in junior high (long, long ago in the mid 80's) we had "duct tape" on the hall floors as well for lanes. Some halls were one-way too. It was a good way for crowd controll so teachers could keep an eye out for anything. Our junior high was for 7 and 8th grade with about 1,300 students.

 

[Cindy B]

Sounds more like discipline than academic. My kids schools (middle and high schools) don't have breaks- only lunch time.

The duct tape on the floor actually would be of some use in my school! We have quite a few wanderers and kids that start fights. It sounds a bit like prison- walk on the line- but in some places (especially in my environment) you need extremely strong structure for everything- walking to class, walking to the bathroom, exiting the lunchroom, going from the hallway to sitting down, etc.

My school always has the kids sitting with their own class. The school I worked at previously was like that as well. Now the no talking, well- that could cause aggression and anger in the students. (Be prepared for a food fight or a fist fight soon). The students do need to socialize and decompress and this may not be the best idea.

It is definetely discipline not academic. But if the the students are fooling around they won't take academic issues seriously. To the troublemakers, school is just a place to fool around and the serious stuff like the standardized tests and benchmark assessments- they just mark a pattern or disrupt the class enough so they can get sent home and these tests gets voided.

 

[JessicaR]

Sounds more like discipline than academic. My kids schools (middle and high schools) don't have breaks- only lunch time.

The duct tape on the floor actually would be of some use in my school! We have quite a few wanderers and kids that start fights. It sounds a bit like prison- walk on the line- but in some places (especially in my environment) you need extremely strong structure for everything- walking to class, walking to the bathroom, exiting the lunchroom, going from the hallway to sitting down, etc.

My school always has the kids sitting with their own class. The school I worked at previously was like that as well. Now the no talking, well- that could cause aggression and anger in the students. (Be prepared for a food fight or a fist fight soon). The students do need to socialize and decompress and this may not be the best idea.

It is definetely discipline not academic. But if the the students are fooling around they won't take academic issues seriously. To the troublemakers, school is just a place to fool around and the serious stuff like the standardized tests and benchmark assessments- they just mark a pattern or disrupt the class enough so they can get sent home and these tests gets voided.

I agree with this, especially the bolded part.

Also wondering how they take away minutes from certain classes and why and add them where? Seems very odd.

 

[HelenePA]

We dont have duct tape on our floors but there is a line of blue tile that they must walk along..

 

[mjkacmom]

What types of breaks did they have? I am not understanding the sitting with the class thing. At our middle school, they have 8 periods, just like HS, and they switch every 40 minutes or so. There are 4 lunch periods.

 

[ilovemk76]

I have thought long and hard about posting this. I got blasted last time and don't really want to deal with that again. I just would like some opinions because maybe there is something I am not seeing.

DD has been out of school for a week with a respiratory infection. So, whatever I decide to do will be after she goes back and I know exactly what is happening. All of this is according to some of the other students and one or two parents, they have implemented some new rules that sound outrageous!

1. No breaks. At all--this has been going back and forth all year, at first it was due to a "grant" that had something to do with eating breakfast, then it was due to talking in the halls. They had their breaks for about two months.

2. Part of their activity period has been taken--this period is for PE, Show Choir, Band, Library. (kids not in band or show choir go to PE or Library on rotating days) They took 15 minutes or so away most days and Library completely.

3. At lunch they must sit with their class and there can be no talking at all

4. The hallway is now lined with duct tape. When walking in the hall they must walk between the duct tape and the wall. If they are leaving a class on the left side of the hallway and going to the classroom directly across the hall, they have to walk down the hall to the end and back up to the classroom.

Their crime? Not doing as well as expected on "Success Maker", which I don't even know what is exactly, but do know that its some type of tests done online. These are done in one class--ICT and it has been said that they are scoring lower than the 4th graders. This is according to a student's understanding of what the principal explained to them.

I fail to see how these punishments are going to change scores on these tests, but maybe someone here knows something about these methods that I am not seeing

On the state standardized tests, MCT, the majority are scoring proficient and advanced--so they do know the material. From what I can understand, the Success Maker, is simply a way to practice for the MCT and doesn't actually count for anything.


Please, understand, I have only talked to the principal twice about anything going on. Once when it seemed the entire class was losing privileges because a few were failing, and I simply asked what would be done for the ones that were passing. She never answered me, but some of their privileges were given back the following week. The other time was about a bully situation.

I do not say much because of a connection between my boss, the former superintendent of the school district (who has recently retired) and one of dd's teachers. There is too strong of a connection and I didn't feel comfortable saying anything because of it.

I would never go in to see the principal due simply to what a student told me. I will wait until dd goes back to school and get her experience. And if I do approach her it will be more of a "why is this happening" not an accusation.

But, before I do anything, I thought maybe someone had some experience with something like this that would say "yes, it will make them increase the scores on these tests">

The first two would help with test scores as they would be in academic classes longer.

The last two will cut down on the congregating and griping about the first two.

#4 is funny.


You really think you need to intervene? Let it go and let your DD learn to go with the flow. This is a lesson that seems to be lacking in your rants. No reason to march in to the principle again.

You have only contacted the principle twice hit year? You do realize most parents do not do that many in all of their kids school years.

 

[npmommie]

another glaring difference I am sure between USA schools and the other poster's experience with German schools.

I will keep my opinion to myself since I am one of those radical homeschoolers.

OP I agree with waiting til your dd goes back to see the reality of it, then discuss.
good luck.

 

[Disney Doll]

I agree that it sounds more like dicipline for some reason other than academic. See what DD's experience is when she gets back to school.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I would try to talk to some other parents and get the whole story. My middle schooler comes home with stories that he got 3rd hand from other students. By the time I hear them, they're pretty wild!

It does sound to me like the school was having some disciplinary problems and felt the need to crack down in the ways you described. Still, I would do some more investigating by talking to parents I know before deciding whether to discuss it with the principal.

 

[luvsJack]

The are supposed to have a sort of break time before school. They start arriving at 7:20 and have until 7:50 to be outside. This also gave them time to make up work if needed in whatever class--this time is now (again) spent in homeroom and they work on homework or just sit and read.

The second break is after 2nd period and is for 10 or 15 minutes--this time is spent in 2nd period so it just depends on the teacher as to what they do.

The 15 minutes they take from activity period, they just stay in their homeroom. They don't do anything. That's what's confusing about it, they aren't using it to take or retake these tests. Another parent told me that originally they were going to take away PE but the state law mandates that they have to have PE.

I would like to see the tests because from what dd says, the test starts at a low grade level and works up to 8th. Most of the kids complain that its boring and not helping with MCT at all. MCT is on grade level and up. IMHO, if this is true, they aren't taking these tests seriously and are doing badly because they are bored with it.

The two times I contacted this principal were not both this year. One was this year and one was 6th grade--twice in 9 years, k-8. I realize that some people never contact the school at all, but when bullying is a problem, I would hope they would. The other time, I just asked the question through email.


It does sound more like discipline problems and if that is what is happening, understandable. There are right at 100 students in the 8th grade but they are all in one hallway. And if the extra time they have taken from the students was being used to review, re-do or work on the tests, etc.; that would be understandable.

Maybe she just needed to explain what was happening and why a little better. And hopefully it will be different when dd gets there and sees it for herself.

Personally, it just sounds like they are treating them like convicts in a prison. And I don't see any reason to treat them that way. In all reality, the kid's attitudes are getting worse and worse because of the way they are treated.

BTW, I not ranting. I am not angry. I haven't given an opinion to dd or to anyone else. I have just listened to what anyone has said about it and am questioning the methods that they are using.

I do tell dd to just follow the rules and go with the flow and she does. Mostly she just counts down the days until she will go to high school.

Maybe this will actually give them the desired results.

 

[bumbershoot]

The first two would help with test scores as they would be in academic classes longer.

The last two will cut down on the congregating and griping about the first two.

#4 is funny.

I think it's been a LONG time since you were a kid in school. Rules don't cause less griping, they cause more, especially when they are ridiculous. And just b/c student can't gripe in school b/c they aren't allowed to speak doesn't mean they end up loving it. If you read the Harry Potter books, Umbridge tried that and it didn't work out well, LOL.

My group of friends from school (and I was graduated in '87) still talk about our elementary school principal and what weird problems she must have had, since she outlawed flip flops. In hot hot San Jose CA, with no air conditioning in the rooms and outside walkways. hot hot hot in those closed shoes...we still wonder what sort of fetish she was dealing with, that she needed young children to not show toe cleavage... (and that's not even talking about the junior/middle school VP who was referred to in Nazi terms due to her rules AND lax enforcement of them when popular/sports kids were involved, like when the popular boy sprayed Binaca breath spray in my friend's eye, on purpose, and specifically and in front of many people, and was NOT punished but my friend was, for having talked about it!)


This school's rules are something I'd be having problems with. Then again, my schools in CA had outdoor walkways with wide pavement and multiple ways to rooms and buildings, so we didn't *need* any pathway along skinny halls. We also didn't have homeroom, so there's be no "class" to have lunch with, since multiple classes were altogether, and spread out around the school, for lunch periods (in the cafeteria, in the quad, sitting on the ground outside the next class, in the "stoner" section aka smoking section (and in the 70s and 80s they really were about the same thing, according to those who used that section), etc etc). So my experience just makes the whole entire thing sound so foreign I can't even wrap my head around it all.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Does not sound like a big deal to me but I guess it is when they "take stuff away".

My dd's never had breaks & had to eat with their class in middle school.

As far as duct tape on the floor, does not sound like a big deal either.

Now the "no talking" during lunch is stupid. I would certainly address that with the principal and ask what is the punishment for talking?

I would think this is a discipline issue and not related to a test score.

 

[HelenePA]

Once the kids get to school they go directly to breakfast, if they aren't eating they go to the auditorium and wait for class to start. The teachers pick up each of their classes there and head to homeroom in Elem., in HS you go right to homeroom. I'm sure its a safety issue. What if someone gets hurt on school property and no one is watching them. Who's to blame because someone is ALWAYS to blame now a days.

 

[MariDisney]

I don't understand why the kids would need a break before school even starts. That part is confusing me.

 

[ilovemk76]

I don't understand why the kids would need a break before school even starts. That part is confusing me.

Or why do they need a break after just two classes. Are they stressed out from school already?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Their crime? Not doing as well as expected on "Success Maker", which I don't even know what is exactly, but do know that its some type of tests done online.

Success Maker is online instructional software for elementary and middle school students.

http://www.pearsonschool.com/index.cfm?locator=PSZkAe

It is owned by Pearson, which has its hands in just about everything related to schools, including textbooks, standardized tests, instructional software, and administrative software.