Jon & Kate - Will you continue to watch this show?

[wall*e2008]

I think you are confusing your procedures. K & J did not have embryo's planted. I agree that embryo's should be limited, and for most doctors they are. However, if you only did 1 or 2, since many times they don't 'take', they do have 'usual' amounts they use based on history. Octomom should not have had the amount she did..most doctors would not have done that.

I know they did ot use IVF. IVF have one of the lowest rates of high order multiples, since Drs limit the amount of embryos implanted (except the idiot Dr for octomomma).

Any form of fertility treatment that can produce high order multiples is what I am talking about. J&K used fertility treatment and got twins. The rate of multiple goes up with each treatment and they got more than one the first time. The chances were very high with the second being a high order multiple.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think you are confusing your procedures.

I think so, too, based on what was posted here.

I also hope that his or her position never comes back to bite him or her in the butt.

As I've said before, nobody can really know with 100% certainty what they'd do in a given situation unless they find themselves in the same, or similar, one.

Situations like these generally aren't taken lightly by those who live them. One becomes a very quick study to things one never thought one would have to think about. And sorry to say, there's a lot of pain, heartache and soul searching involved. Since I lived it myself, I've supported/counseled countless others who find themselves unexpectedly in the same boat, so I can say with certainty, attitudes can change when it comes to oneself or one's loved ones trying to have a family.

Octomom and her doctor (who strayed greatly from accepted standards of practice) did a lot of damage to the public's perception of IVF. Millions of families have been created worldwide using the procedure in what most would consider an "acceptable" way. So now people think that everyone who does IVF are having too many babies and are on the public dole? Now I've heard it all...

 

[wall*e2008]

I think so, too, based on what was posted here.

I also hope that his or her position never comes back to bite him or her in the butt.

As I've said before, nobody can really know with 100% certainty what they'd do in a given situation unless they find themselves in the same, or similar, one.

Situations like these generally aren't taken lightly by those who live them. One becomes a very quick study to things one never thought one would have to think about. And sorry to say, there's a lot of pain, heartache and soul searching involved. Since I lived it myself, I've supported/counseled countless others who find themselves unexpectedly in the same boat, so I can say with certainty, attitudes can change when it comes to oneself or one's loved ones trying to have a family.

Octomom and her doctor (who strayed greatly from accepted standards of practice) did a lot of damage to the public's perception of IVF. Millions of families have been created worldwide using the procedure in what most would consider an "acceptable" way. So now people think that everyone who does IVF are having too many babies and are on the public dole? Now I've heard it all...

We have had this in our family and all of them became parents by adoption. They wanted a child and they are now happy families. Bio-familes are not the only kind of family.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

We have had this in our family and all of them became parents by adoption. They wanted a child and they are now happy families. Bio-familes are not the only kind of family.

And that's wonderful for people who choose this route.

There are also people who choose to remain childless.

It's a very personal and individual decision, unique to each person living it.

 

[Aisling]

I'm disgusted by Jon and Kate, and I've stopped watching.

 

[wall*e2008]

And that's wonderful for people who choose this route.

There are also people who choose to remain childless.

It's a very personal and individual decision, unique to each person living it.

My problem is when somebody chooses a route and then wants the taxpayers to pay or need a TV show to afford the kids. So many high order multiples have life long medical problems that are rare in single birth children. They then use government medical to cover the high medical bills. If you want the taxpayer to pay then they have a right to limit the number of kids born to a single women in a single pregnancy.

Also the TV shows encourage some to try for the bigger families (octomomma) so they can get free stuff and their own show.

 

[DMRick]

We have had this in our family and all of them became parents by adoption. They wanted a child and they are now happy families. Bio-familes are not the only kind of family.

And we have several adopted children in our family. It's an individual choice with many, many reasons behind the choices. There really aren't many like Octomom or her doctors, thank God.
Also, this procedure doesn't mean it's a bio family.
Hopefully J & K's children will always feel loved and wanted.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't care who is at fault or why they are getting a divorce or even why they ended up with 8 kids. They are parents that are acting absolutely irresponsible when it comes to the caring for and raising of their children.

Divorce is extremely hard for any child but for them to be airing it all on television is unforgiveable.

Kate can pretend she has done and is doing all of this for the welfare of the children all she wants but she is doing it for herself. She has not thought of what this will do to her kids even once.

As for "needing" this show for her financial security? Oh PUHLEASE!! She does not have to have a mansion or designer labels. My in-laws dressed and fed 7 kids on a construction workers salary (much, much less than what Kate would make as a nurse). And their kids knew they were loved and grew up in a stable home and had all the security one could ask for.

Kate needs to learn that there is more to this life than money and "financial security". Her kids need two parents that can act like mature adults and step out of the limelight long enough to make sure the kids are ok and understand what is happening to them.

 

[Catzeyes]

Nope I will stop watching at this point.

 

[Disneyaunt4]

Couldn't have said it better myself!!! Meant to quote DVCLIZ's post.

 

[MM27]

I never watched it, but I wonder, will it now be called Jon and Kate Plus Eight Minus One? I think this show has shown just how harmful too much TV can be, these people traded their marriage for celebrity.

they were talking about J&K on the radio this morning on my way to work and they said that they should rename the show Jon and Kate plus Jon's date.

They said the rumor right now is that when they return in August, we will see one of the girlfriends (either the plastic surgeon's daughter or the teacher)

 

[DVCLiz]

I don't care who is at fault or why they are getting a divorce or even why they ended up with 8 kids. They are parents that are acting absolutely irresponsible when it comes to the caring for and raising of their children.

Divorce is extremely hard for any child but for them to be airing it all on television is unforgiveable.

Kate can pretend she has done and is doing all of this for the welfare of the children all she wants but she is doing it for herself. She has not thought of what this will do to her kids even once.

As for "needing" this show for her financial security? Oh PUHLEASE!! She does not have to have a mansion or designer labels. My in-laws dressed and fed 7 kids on a construction workers salary (much, much less than what Kate would make as a nurse). And their kids knew they were loved and grew up in a stable home and had all the security one could ask for.

Kate needs to learn that there is more to this life than money and "financial security". Her kids need two parents that can act like mature adults and step out of the limelight long enough to make sure the kids are ok and understand what is happening to them.

Um, how do you think your in laws would have managed to pay child care costs for 7 children on that construction worker's salary if your father in law had walked out on your mother in law in favor of a younger woman he met at a job site? How would your mother in law have managed to feed and dress those children and provide that stability for them if she was working a second shift nursing job every night?

Really, it's so totally unrealistic what people think about money and children. I see so many posts like this - "If they would just cut back...". It always amazes me to see people put "financial security" in quotes, as though it were some random luxury that could be cut from the budget like cable TV. Why don't you try being a single mother with limited or no child support and see how stable it makes your family feel?

If I had the opportunity I would do exactly what Kate Gosselin is doing. When I had 8 college educations in the bank I might make some different choices but for now that's where the money is and I think she would be a fool not to take advantgae of it. Her children will thank her for it down the road, believe me. Not every child of blue collar workers ends up saying, "Gee, thanks for making me take out student loans and work to pay them off the rest of my life." There are plenty of kids - I've even seen some of them on threads on the DIS - who wish their parents had worked so life could have been a ltitle easier and better for them later on.

 

[luvsJack]

Um, how do you think your in laws would have managed to pay child care costs for 7 children on that construction worker's salary if your father in law had walked out on your mother in law in favor of a younger woman he met at a job site? How would your mother in law have managed to feed and dress those children and provide that stability for them if she was working a second shift nursing job every night?

Really, it's so totally unrealistic what people think about money and children. I see so many posts like this - "If they would just cut back...". It always amazes me to see people put "financial security" in quotes, as though it were some random luxury that could be cut from the budget like cable TV. Why don't you try being a single mother with limited or no child support and see how stable it makes your family feel?

If I had the opportunity I would do exactly what Kate Gosselin is doing. When I had 8 college educations in the bank I might make some different choices but for now that's where the money is and I think she would be a fool not to take advantgae of it. Her children will thank her for it down the road, believe me. Not every child of blue collar workers ends up saying, "Gee, thanks for making me take out student loans and work to pay them off the rest of my life." There are plenty of kids - I've even seen some of them on threads on the DIS - who wish their parents had worked so life could have been a ltitle easier and better for them later on.

The importance of the children's emotional stablity is head and shoulder's above financial security. What good is a college education to a kid whose life is in the toilet because of the crap his/her parents have put him/her through? Money isn't the only thing important to a child and there are other ways to get an education. Have you not seen what happens to kids who grow up in the limelight? Its not always pretty.

As for my inlaws--my mil was not a nurse she would not have had a nurse's salary to support her children but Kate does. My point was that they did it on one income and that one income was less than what Kate's will be as a nurse. She does not have to do this to provide for those children. It is her choice.

I never said she could just cut back. I said she doesn't need that big house and designer labels. Maybe she needs to take stock of what is needs and what is wants.

And, for your information, I have been a single mother and I got the grand total of $150 in child support. We didn't have a lot, but they knew they had me. I was the stability in their lives that they so very much needed when thier world started crumbling. I provided for my kids on minimum wage, so, please, do not give me Ms. Kate's pity story. I just don't buy it.


And who said a parent shouldn't work to provide for their kids? I have always worked. My in-laws worked and my parents worked. My parents worked 12-14 hours a day. You know what I wish? I wish they had taken it a bit easier and enjoyed the money they made, I wish we would have spent more time . I certainly would NEVER wish my parents would have worked longer or harder to provide me with a college education--that is unbelivably selfish and I certainly hope that no child of mine ever shows that kind of selfishness. Besides, I really don't see what parents working to provide for their kids has to do with any of this.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

Um, how do you think your in laws would have managed to pay child care costs for 7 children on that construction worker's salary if your father in law had walked out on your mother in law in favor of a younger woman he met at a job site? How would your mother in law have managed to feed and dress those children and provide that stability for them if she was working a second shift nursing job every night?

Really, it's so totally unrealistic what people think about money and children. I see so many posts like this - "If they would just cut back...". It always amazes me to see people put "financial security" in quotes, as though it were some random luxury that could be cut from the budget like cable TV. Why don't you try being a single mother with limited or no child support and see how stable it makes your family feel?

If I had the opportunity I would do exactly what Kate Gosselin is doing. When I had 8 college educations in the bank I might make some different choices but for now that's where the money is and I think she would be a fool not to take advantgae of it. Her children will thank her for it down the road, believe me. Not every child of blue collar workers ends up saying, "Gee, thanks for making me take out student loans and work to pay them off the rest of my life." There are plenty of kids - I've even seen some of them on threads on the DIS - who wish their parents had worked so life could have been a ltitle easier and better for them later on.

Actually the septuplets already have their college education paid for from the state of PA.

With the "tups" starting all day school this fall then Kate could easily go back to work full time as a nurse and support her children. She won't be able to keep the mansion but she could definitely support them on her salary alone in modest accomodations.

 

[denisem]

I hear your point (I thank God every day for what I've been given).

But are you saying that those who have children successfully via ART shouldn't long for, or try for, more?

Hey, I believe people should have as many kids as they can provide for, financially AND emotionally.

 

[DVCLiz]

Actually the septuplets already have their college education paid for from the state of PA.

With the "tups" starting all day school this fall then Kate could easily go back to work full time as a nurse and support her children. She won't be able to keep the mansion but she could definitely support them on her salary alone in modest accomodations.

That's not true - Kate herself has said on the show that there are no college accounts. There was an effort to have donations made for their education but they did not raise money to fully cover 32 years of tuition.

 

[DVCLiz]

The importance of the children's emotional stablity is head and shoulder's above financial security. What good is a college education to a kid whose life is in the toilet because of the crap his/her parents have put him/her through? Money isn't the only thing important to a child and there are other ways to get an education. Have you not seen what happens to kids who grow up in the limelight? Its not always pretty.

As for my inlaws--my mil was not a nurse she would not have had a nurse's salary to support her children but Kate does. My point was that they did it on one income and that one income was less than what Kate's will be as a nurse. She does not have to do this to provide for those children. It is her choice.

I never said she could just cut back. I said she doesn't need that big house and designer labels. Maybe she needs to take stock of what is needs and what is wants.

And, for your information, I have been a single mother and I got the grand total of $150 in child support. We didn't have a lot, but they knew they had me. I was the stability in their lives that they so very much needed when thier world started crumbling. I provided for my kids on minimum wage, so, please, do not give me Ms. Kate's pity story. I just don't buy it.


And who said a parent shouldn't work to provide for their kids? I have always worked. My in-laws worked and my parents worked. My parents worked 12-14 hours a day. You know what I wish? I wish they had taken it a bit easier and enjoyed the money they made, I wish we would have spent more time . I certainly would NEVER wish my parents would have worked longer or harder to provide me with a college education--that is unbelivably selfish and I certainly hope that no child of mine ever shows that kind of selfishness. Besides, I really don't see what parents working to provide for their kids has to do with any of this.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I was responding to the example you gave about your inlaws. The point is that there were TWO fo them - one parent to earn the living and one to stay home and take care of the children. Unless you left out a detail about how the children were cared for if both inlaws worked.

Kate won't have that second parent so she'll have to cover child care for 8 children if she takes a job. What job do you know in nursing that would cover the cost of 8 childcare bills?

"What good is a college education to a kid whose life is in the toilet because of the crap his/her parents have put him/her through?"

Well, in my opinion the Gosselin children are not sustaining such enormous emotional damage because they are being filmed playing in the backyard that they should give up being educated to cope with the fallout later on. I think an education is the most important thing there is for a child.

I suppose the basic difference in our posts is that you believe there is real damage being inflicted on these children and I don't.

"And, for your information, I have been a single mother and I got the grand total of $150 in child support. We didn't have a lot, but they knew they had me. I was the stability in their lives that they so very much needed when thier world started crumbling. I provided for my kids on minimum wage, so, please, do not give me Ms. Kate's pity story. I just don't buy it."

I don't recall seeing anything about Kate's pity story - she has been very clear that she wants to continue to work at the job the media has created for her. I don't see anything wrong with it. I see that you do but you are the one who is calling it a "pity party." Those are just your opinions but I have never seen Kate throw herself a "pity party."

"I certainly would NEVER wish my parents would have worked longer or harder to provide me with a college education--that is unbelivably selfish and I certainly hope that no child of mine ever shows that kind of selfishness."

You and I are miles aprt on this issue, then. I consider it a responsibility to try and provide a child with a college education. I suppose if you think it's not important then that would color your judgement but any parent who has the ability to work and doesn't at least try to fund some sort of college fund for a child is the selfish one in my book.

 

[wall*e2008]

Actually the septuplets already have their college education paid for from the state of PA.

With the "tups" starting all day school this fall then Kate could easily go back to work full time as a nurse and support her children. She won't be able to keep the mansion but she could definitely support them on her salary alone in modest accomodations.

It would sure suck to move back into the 5 bedroom home they have not been able to sell.

 

[wall*e2008]

Hey, I believe people should have as many kids as they can provide for, financially AND emotionally.

 

[Laura]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I was responding to the example you gave about your inlaws. The point is that there were TWO fo them - one parent to earn the living and one to stay home and take care of the children. Unless you left out a detail about how the children were cared for if both inlaws worked.

Kate won't have that second parent so she'll have to cover child care for 8 children if she takes a job. What job do you know in nursing that would cover the cost of 8 childcare bills?

Is Jon going to die? I think that can be worked out. But I didn't watch Monday night, I don't know what the separation entails.

"What good is a college education to a kid whose life is in the toilet because of the crap his/her parents have put him/her through?"

Well, in my opinion the Gosselin children are not sustaining such enormous emotional damage because they are being filmed playing in the backyard that they should give up being educated to cope with the fallout later on. I think an education is the most important thing there is for a child.

I suppose the basic difference in our posts is that you believe there is real damage being inflicted on these children and I don't.

"And, for your information, I have been a single mother and I got the grand total of $150 in child support. We didn't have a lot, but they knew they had me. I was the stability in their lives that they so very much needed when thier world started crumbling. I provided for my kids on minimum wage, so, please, do not give me Ms. Kate's pity story. I just don't buy it."

I don't recall seeing anything about Kate's pity story - she has been very clear that she wants to continue to work at the job the media has created for her. I don't see anything wrong with it. I see that you do but you are the one who is calling it a "pity party." Those are just your opinions but I have never seen Kate throw herself a "pity party."

"I certainly would NEVER wish my parents would have worked longer or harder to provide me with a college education--that is unbelivably selfish and I certainly hope that no child of mine ever shows that kind of selfishness."

You and I are miles aprt on this issue, then. I consider it a responsibility to try and provide a child with a college education. I suppose if you think it's not important then that would color your judgement but any parent who has the ability to work and doesn't at least try to fund some sort of college fund for a child is the selfish one in my book.

I think it is important to put away some money for college. But I don't think I have to fund 100% of my daughter's future education. It's a reach to say that if one has no money put aside for college, one should give up on being educated. Student loans aren't the end of the world. That said, if it's true that the Gosselins get $75K an episode, eight episodes would be enough of a college fund to me.

Personally, I don't really blame the Gosselins for signing up for their own TV show and getting extra money. It seems to have gotten very much out of hand at this point, unfortunately. You mention being filmed playing in the backyard. But it's more intrusive than that. One episode I watched showed one of the boys using a plastic potty outside at a friend's house; one of the parents mentioned he was a bit nervous about being seen. And yet the moment has been watched by how many TV viewers? How many times have the little kids' bathroom habits been filmed?

Here's a 1997 letter from the surviving Dionne quintuplets to the McCaugheys (parents of septuplets):

Dear Bobbi and Kenny,

If we emerge momentarily from the privacy we have sought all our adult lives, it is only to send a message to the McCaughey family. We three would like you to know we feel a natural affinity and tenderness for your children. We hope your children receive more respect than we did. Their fate should be no different from that of other children. Multiple births should not be confused with entertainment, nor should they be an opportunity to sell products.

Our lives have been ruined by the exploitation we suffered at the hands of the government of Ontario, our place of birth. We were displayed as a curiosity three times a day for millions of tourists. To this day we receive letters from all over the world. To all those who have expressed their support in light of the abuse we have endured, we say thank you. And to those who would seek to exploit the growing fame of these children, we say beware.

We sincerely hope a lesson will be learned from examining how our lives were forever altered by our childhood experience. If this letter changes the course of events for these newborns, then perhaps our lives will have served a higher purpose.

Sincerely, Annette, Cecile and Yvonne Dionne

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,987457,00.html