Jon and Kate Plus 8 Official Thread - Part 8

[3prettyprincesses]

Absolutely.

I was simply sharing that my opinions pretty much were modified when there are other sextuplet mothers who claim they feel they can respond and would NEVER do that to their kids--indeed are doing just that. As I said, I cannot find the blog--but when the folks protesting are doing it on a smaller scale, it weakens the whole argument on whether or not it is truly inappropriate or are the observers being petty.

In the case of authoring a book--I found it petty a year ago and I find it a bit...wrong now...to judge someone before reading their book and then objecting on the premise that there would be no book without the kids and that parents should not profit off the kids.

It really just doesn't set well with me--b/c our kids do affect our lives and our lives as parents are often shaped by our kids. If we wish to share our story for profit--there is nothing wrong wtih that.

We have a parenting column in our paper and the author is constantly writing about the antics of her kids and parenting in general.

Could she have a job unrelated to that column--SURE. But her sole purpose as an employee of that paper is to write about her kids.

It isn't fair to enjoy such pieces and then condemn KAte b/c she has a larger platform to share.

I personally think her book will flop. They jumped the shark and the story has been told.

Condemning her for it in the name that she is sacrifciing her children's privacy--it happens in parenting magazines, newspapers and blogs worldwide. It is nothing new.

To me--we just don't like that "Kate" is the one doing it.

Thus the reason I brought up the other sextuplet moms and their books and can laugh when Nadia Suleman acts as though she is a saint protecting her kids and isn't a Kate--when she truly is in it for the money.

Interesting post and while I don't agree with it, it did make me pause and think. Sharing parenting tips in a column is still IMO vastly different than writing personal things about your kids and publishing it for sale. What Kate is sharing is private moments much like some of the ones from the show were. There is a level of privacy that kids need (and deserve). I guess you and I see this differently which is fine, that's what makes this thread so interesting.

I read on radaronline that Kate wrote this book because she feels the kids have been raised unconventionally. She thinks they'll look back on their upbringing and have questions. Apparently she wants to reassure them that she loves them and the sacrifices were all worth it. I guess putting it in a book for everyone to see will accomplish that?

www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/02/kate-gosselin-releasing-new-personal-book

 

[Debbie]

They were constructing their home before TLC ever stepped in to "help".

I'm not sure with the car salesman part.

What I do know is that they purposed to be debt free and they pay cash for everything.

They moved into the Tiny house--b/c they thought they'd have their regular house built in time--so they transitioned. I don't recall why. But that wasn't the house they had been living in long term. They had to expedite construction when that house had to be torn down due to land development.

Lisa, wasn't the house building a special with the Duggars? I'm not sure. I do remember that both parents sold real estate early in their married lives. Moving into the small house didn't surprise me- I just figured that it was one of their holdings and the first house had been sold.

They were in construction, but definitely it went a lot faster once TLC was in the picture. I don't think most people would have watched the show for that long, if they hadn't had the bigger house.

Yes, they do say they are debt free. But in this economy, with that many children, it wouldn't take much, without the show, to find supporting that many children a big challenge. It just always gets me when people think there is much difference about these shows. There isn't..it's all about the amount of children. I do wonder if their children have their own bank accounts, or again, do the parents get all the money for the show.

Oops! So the house building was the first season? As to supporting all the children, I disagree. Without a mortgage, clothing appears to be minimal and mostly hand made, hand-me-downs, second hand (remember the boot/shoe buying), I think it could be done. No outstanding debt, no big bills, it could be done.

That I do not know--
but they are extremely frugal--so that certainly helps from a budgetary standpoint.

With no mortgage and no debts--it certainly frees up the budget to allow the needed items to have a larger budget such as food, utilities, and clothing.

One thing is for certain--Michelle isn't hanging out in spa's getting her massages or her nails colored. They aren't buying flashy new vehicles. So they would most certainly have an easier transition away from the show than Jon and Kate are.


Oh--before I forget. Someone asked about health insurance and in the people article, they did say that their insurance is covering Josie's care. So what type of insurance--I don't know...but it seesm they do have medical coverage.

****

I know they get criticized from covering Josie's birth. But it is their story and their choice. We cannot predict what would have happened had Josie died in birth--b/c it didn't happen. Scrutinizing them for a decision that never had to be made doesn't make sense.

TLC and DHC have been covering births for well over a decade now. They've also been coverig morbid things such as Trauma in the ER and those types of shows. OFten it is with or without the consent of the patient. When there is no consent, they will block out the face and we don't really get an identity of the patient. In any case--they've been doing it for a very long time.

TLC hasn't "sunk to a new low"--if it is low to show Josie--well, they've been low since the start. It is part of their and DHC's overall model to air such programming.

I know that is unrelated to the Gosselin's--but since TLC gets criticized as an entity--I feel that is an important observation.

Even on the Little Couple--pretty much every episode we get a visit in the NICU b/c that is what Jen does for a living. So we see many preemie babies and though we never have seen any die--many are in critical condition when we meet them and on some occasions, we are seeing them as they are about to graduate from NICU.

I wouldn't necessarily call those parents awful for allowing their sick babies to go on the air and I don't find TLC to be evil for doing such a thing.

(not saying you do Doris--just random thoughts attached to a response to your post)

I agree, Lisa. I know that I was happy that there has been-so far-a happy 'ending'. I don't watch the show often, but I did watch the Sunday special a couple of weeks back. Seeing that wee thing kicking and fighting. . . .

Interesting post and while I don't agree with it, it did make me pause and think. Sharing parenting tips in a column is still IMO vastly different than writing personal things about your kids and publishing it for sale. What Kate is sharing is private moments much like some of the ones from the show were. There is a level of privacy that kids need (and deserve). I guess you and I see this differently which is fine, that's what makes this thread so interesting.

I read on radaronline that Kate wrote this book because she feels the kids have been raised unconventionally. She thinks they'll look back on their upbringing and have questions. Apparently she wants to reassure them that she loves them and the sacrifices were all worth it. I guess putting it in a book for everyone to see will accomplish that?

www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/02/kate-gosselin-releasing-new-personal-book

I guess I am of the Kate is another parenting "expert", writing her book, column, website group. No better than me, but I still occasionally read the parenting mags/columns to see how others think. Interesting? Sometimes. Nothing for me to search out, but if I stumble across it. . . .

 

[newtodis]

I do think the Duggars were more financially stable before TLC came knocking.

Personally I used to love the show.

1. The Duggars have proven they are more than capable of providing for their children without the TV show. They have never taken handouts.

I've been lurking trying not to get sucked back in and here I go...

We only know what people want us to think. How many times do you see those "specials" about the hoarders or the Clean House show where people "look" like they have normal lives but are falling apart behind closed doors? Now I know most people aren't hoarders and aren't hiding some huge secret but you only know what people portray or let the "public" know....

I could go point to point on most of what you have written, but I won't, since this would just become a Duggar vs Gosselin thread. I will say that both are a TV show and we see just what TLC wants us to see.

You have so much more restraint than I do!

I saw on Headline News this morning on the crawl at the bottom of the screen there was a thing about Kate's new book so I would suspect she's gonna start making the rounds very soon to promote it.... I'm interested to hear what TLC says to Jon's proposal about filming the kids and dropping the suit again...

 

[OhMari]

It amazes me, that the picture on front of the book, is Kate with her latest hair style.
How did they print this book so fast. She just recently cut off the hair extensions to a better length.

People must make a lot of money writing their own "tabloid" book. Does anyone have any idea how much Kate will make on this book? And how much does a person make, doing a book tour.

 

[HonnyDipp]

I saw the book cover. Kate looked really good. I'm amazed at what they can do with hair extensions lately!

 

[DMRick]

As to supporting all the children, I disagree. Without a mortgage, clothing appears to be minimal and mostly hand made, hand-me-downs, second hand (remember the boot/shoe buying), I think it could be done. No outstanding debt, no big bills, it could be done.

I can't even imagine their food bill, even if they were to grow their own food. And yes, I'm sure the parents are thrilled that their kids wear a bunch of hand me downs and second hand clothing/shoes. I wonder how thrilled the kids actually are. Of course if that is all they have ever gotten, and they don't attend school, I guess it's something you get used to. Having 19 kids means 19 showers, which uses a lot of hot water, Lots more laundry for that hot water expense too. Even if they have insurance, that's a lot of co-pays to the doc and dentist. There is so much more to expenses than a mortgage (I assume that huge house has huge utililty bills). I think that what they get from TLC has to be a large part of their support...can you imagine if they had to pay for all the seats on a plane when they go on one of their trips? I just hope the kids get some of it, and it's not all for mom and dad's future.

 

[Buckalew11]

Many, many J&K threads ago I mentioned the similarities between J&K and my sister and BIL. After 34 yrs. of marriage, I think they are through. Nothing concrete yet, but it looks really bad.
Hearing the 2 of them talk, it is so much like all the J&K crap that it is spooky. My sister and BIL do not even know who J&K are.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

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I can't even imagine their food bill, even if they were to grow their own food. And yes, I'm sure the parents are thrilled that their kids wear a bunch of hand me downs and second hand clothing/shoes. I wonder how thrilled the kids actually are. Of course if that is all they have ever gotten, and they don't attend school, I guess it's something you get used to. Having 19 kids means 19 showers, which uses a lot of hot water, Lots more laundry for that hot water expense too. Even if they have insurance, that's a lot of co-pays to the doc and dentist. There is so much more to expenses than a mortgage (I assume that huge house has huge utililty bills). I think that what they get from TLC has to be a large part of their support...can you imagine if they had to pay for all the seats on a plane when they go on one of their trips? I just hope the kids get some of it, and it's not all for mom and dad's future.

I get your viewpoint--but it seems that it is very focused one how we feel one should live based on how we live.

They shop at Aldi and I believe one grocery trip runs than $700 about. I don't recall how long the food lasts, but let's say it lasts a week...that's about $2800 a month for an extremely large family. That's an average of about $140/pp for an entire month of food.

Contrast that with my family. I spend roughly about $1000 a month--and I am not even tryign to be cost concious. Especailly now. I hate grocery shopping--so I get whatever seems good regardless of cost. With 4 in my family (hubby shops on his own where he is at for about $300-$400 per month)....I spend $250 pp on average per month. Almost double the duggars per capita expense.


As for thrift shopping--it's all in the eye of the beholder. My kids LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE thrift shopping. Adn that is b/c I trained them that way. They didn't grow up with an EWWWWW complex over used clothing. Being homeschooled also helps b/c then they will not be improperly and incorrectly judged that not allof their clothes are brand spanking new. They just don't care. I do my best to thrift shop for labels--and I have been doing this since they were born.

When one is raised that way to respect resources and to pay top dollar on a brand new item when used is just fine--it really doesn't negatively impact the child.

As for the showers--I recall at one time--that they rotate on a shower schedule. But I could be confusing that with another large family that DHC aired about. And if they learn to take quick showers (b/c really--how wasteful isn't it to sit in a 20-30 minute shower? Enjoyable..but extremely wasteful)....they could really conserve water (as directed by the greenies anyway in this country).

Yes their laundry bill is high--but when they cut costs in other areas, they can compensate for such things.

If they do their mission trips--I know several missionaries and they do fundraise for that. Even a childless couple does not often cover tehir own expenses when doing missionary work.

Surely--TLC is probably kicking in those airplane tickets for when they fly to new york or to wherever...and one cannot argue that there isn't any perks b/c we know they are. But that doesn't mean the family's survival is contingent upon those perks.

They'll survive just fine not doing that contrary to Kate who now insists their world is horrible b/c her kids can no longer do the things they have grown accustomed to.


And while TLC only shows us what they want to--it would certainly be hard to fake an entire life if most of what we see was just a fairy tale. When you look at Jon and Kate from the beginning--there was always a present undertone that left me confused as to why folks think the show was so different in the end than it was from the beginning. I saw it. The same thing is not there for the duggars.

 

[DMRick]

We really have no idea how much they spend on food, from one trip to Aldi's shown on TLC. That could have been for the items Aldis has, and there could be many trips during the week for milk, bread and fresh meat. Certainly what they showed for their Christmas party last night, shows that they also spend on other types of foods at least on occasion. Expensive foods. Of course those could have been placements. There is so much more needed for a family of 20-21 and the many guests they seem to be feeding. To think they are surving on $700 a month for food, is very hard to imagine..at least for healthy food. The fruit in this house (at a very discounted store) for two runs close to $60 a month. Imagine for 20. We could eat poorly for a lot less, but like our healthy food.

That's great that your kids (and your kids are young...they may not always want to wear someone else's clothes or play with used toys) have no problem wearing all used clothes and shoes. But that doesn't mean no other child will have a problem, even if properly trained. We have no idea if it will negatively affect a child (even one raised to respect resources) until their books come out. I've seen the pride at the mission where we serve, when we give each child their own brand new mittens and scarf's and socks at the begining of winter. Some hug them, as it's a new experience for them. Something that only they owned.

I'm very aware of fund raising for trips. However, since church is held in their home, and they don't have a large congregation, and they make several trips and send a lot of people, I imagine the fund raising would get stale after awhile. I doubt they would be able to afford that many trips and vacations without some TLC help.

Just like with J & K, we have no idea if they will survive 'just fine'. We really have no idea of what their lives are like. Just because we want to think all is well, doesn't mean it is. We also have no idea if the kids are just fine having their lives on TV, or if they are afraid to say no. Respect for their parents and all that.

We can all talk about our experiences and share how we think those kids feel being on TV, but really, until they are out of their house and can tell their stories, we have no idea how they really feel.

I feel the same about K & J, to bring this full circle back to them. Until the books come out, we have no idea how they feel about being on TV and private things shown.

I get your viewpoint--but it seems that it is very focused one how we feel one should live based on how we live.

They shop at Aldi and I believe one grocery trip runs than $700 about. I don't recall how long the food lasts, but let's say it lasts a week...that's about $2800 a month for an extremely large family. That's an average of about $140/pp for an entire month of food.

Contrast that with my family. I spend roughly about $1000 a month--and I am not even tryign to be cost concious. Especailly now. I hate grocery shopping--so I get whatever seems good regardless of cost. With 4 in my family (hubby shops on his own where he is at for about $300-$400 per month)....I spend $250 pp on average per month. Almost double the duggars per capita expense.


As for thrift shopping--it's all in the eye of the beholder. My kids LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE thrift shopping. Adn that is b/c I trained them that way. They didn't grow up with an EWWWWW complex over used clothing. Being homeschooled also helps b/c then they will not be improperly and incorrectly judged that not allof their clothes are brand spanking new. They just don't care. I do my best to thrift shop for labels--and I have been doing this since they were born.

When one is raised that way to respect resources and to pay top dollar on a brand new item when used is just fine--it really doesn't negatively impact the child.

As for the showers--I recall at one time--that they rotate on a shower schedule. But I could be confusing that with another large family that DHC aired about. And if they learn to take quick showers (b/c really--how wasteful isn't it to sit in a 20-30 minute shower? Enjoyable..but extremely wasteful)....they could really conserve water (as directed by the greenies anyway in this country).

Yes their laundry bill is high--but when they cut costs in other areas, they can compensate for such things.

If they do their mission trips--I know several missionaries and they do fundraise for that. Even a childless couple does not often cover tehir own expenses when doing missionary work.

Surely--TLC is probably kicking in those airplane tickets for when they fly to new york or to wherever...and one cannot argue that there isn't any perks b/c we know they are. But that doesn't mean the family's survival is contingent upon those perks.

They'll survive just fine not doing that contrary to Kate who now insists their world is horrible b/c her kids can no longer do the things they have grown accustomed to.


And while TLC only shows us what they want to--it would certainly be hard to fake an entire life if most of what we see was just a fairy tale. When you look at Jon and Kate from the beginning--there was always a present undertone that left me confused as to why folks think the show was so different in the end than it was from the beginning. I saw it. The same thing is not there for the duggars.

 

[madge]

I feel the same about K & J, to bring this full circle back to them. Until the books come out, we have no idea how they feel about being on TV and private things shown.

you mean books written by the Gosselin children, right?

I don't put any stock into a book written by Jon or Kate right now. They're still completely and totally in spin mode.

 

[madge]

I saw on Headline News this morning on the crawl at the bottom of the screen there was a thing about Kate's new book so I would suspect she's gonna start making the rounds very soon to promote it.....

she's guest hosting on The View next month. I'm sure that's part of it.

 

[madge]

I read on radaronline that Kate wrote this book because she feels the kids have been raised unconventionally. She thinks they'll look back on their upbringing and have questions. Apparently she wants to reassure them that she loves them and the sacrifices were all worth it. I guess putting it in a book for everyone to see will accomplish that?

www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/02/kate-gosselin-releasing-new-personal-book

wasn't there a time (and I really could be remembering it wrong, apologies if I am...) that Kate proclaimed that the kids were having a normal life? That the filming was all normal and natural to them?

And now that life is possibly unconventional. I'll be interested to hear how Kate describes their upbringing now.

 

[DMRick]

you mean books written by the Gosselin children, right?

I don't put any stock into a book written by Jon or Kate right now. They're still completely and totally in spin mode.

Yes, the kids books. Right now, on all of these shows, the kids are still under the rule of mom and dad. The parents books are their opinions. The kids books may be a bit different. Who knows, they may even say they loved the experience.

 

[madge]

Yes, the kids books. Right now, on all of these shows, the kids are still under the rule of mom and dad. The parents books are their opinions. The kids books may be a bit different. Who knows, they may even say they loved the experience.

it will certainly be interesting to see what these children become as they get older.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

wasn't there a time (and I really could be remembering it wrong, apologies if I am...) that Kate proclaimed that the kids were having a normal life? That the filming was all normal and natural to them?

And now that life is possibly unconventional. I'll be interested to hear how Kate describes their upbringing now.

It sounds vaguely familiar. Something to the effect of them living their lives and the cameras are just there filming. I think the insinuation was that the kids lives are normal, uninterrupted even though the cameras are rolling. You're right, I just don't remember word for word but I do remember getting that impression from something she said. Was it the Larry King Live interview?

 

[DisneyMomx7]

We really have no idea how much they spend on food, from one trip to Aldi's shown on TLC. That could have been for the items Aldis has, and there could be many trips during the week for milk, bread and fresh meat. Certainly what they showed for their Christmas party last night, shows that they also spend on other types of foods at least on occasion. Expensive foods. Of course those could have been placements. There is so much more needed for a family of 20-21 and the many guests they seem to be feeding. To think they are surving on $700 a month for food, is very hard to imagine..at least for healthy food. The fruit in this house (at a very discounted store) for two runs close to $60 a month. Imagine for 20. We could eat poorly for a lot less, but like our healthy food.

That's great that your kids (and your kids are young...they may not always want to wear someone else's clothes or play with used toys) have no problem wearing all used clothes and shoes. But that doesn't mean no other child will have a problem, even if properly trained. We have no idea if it will negatively affect a child (even one raised to respect resources) until their books come out. I've seen the pride at the mission where we serve, when we give each child their own brand new mittens and scarf's and socks at the begining of winter. Some hug them, as it's a new experience for them. Something that only they owned.

I'm very aware of fund raising for trips. However, since church is held in their home, and they don't have a large congregation, and they make several trips and send a lot of people, I imagine the fund raising would get stale after awhile. I doubt they would be able to afford that many trips and vacations without some TLC help.

Just like with J & K, we have no idea if they will survive 'just fine'. We really have no idea of what their lives are like. Just because we want to think all is well, doesn't mean it is. We also have no idea if the kids are just fine having their lives on TV, or if they are afraid to say no. Respect for their parents and all that.

We can all talk about our experiences and share how we think those kids feel being on TV, but really, until they are out of their house and can tell their stories, we have no idea how they really feel.

I feel the same about K & J, to bring this full circle back to them. Until the books come out, we have no idea how they feel about being on TV and private things shown.

I believe they said $700 a week not a month.

There are so many differences between the Duggars and the Gosselins.

For one thing they did almost all the labor on the new house themselves. I can't imagine Michelle or Jim Bob getting a beautiful new house and then wanting to redo the kitchen because it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

Since their kids are homeschooled they really aren't in competition with other kids on "status" clothing. They seem just fine wearing the consignment store and second hand clothing.

Most of the trips they take they are still using that "bus" that they had before the show ever started.

Finally, none of the Duggars ever seem to have that "entitlement" philosophy that Kate had.

It seems like Kate just can't let go of the limelight. I think she's already outdone her 30 seconds of fame and I predict both the book and her new tv show will be a flash in the pan and we won't be hearing so much about her after that.

 

[DMRick]

I believe they said $700 a week not a month.

I'm sorry, I did mean a week..that's still pretty cheap, if all products are including. Heck, just the female products for that many teens are up there in price.

I can't imagine Michelle or Jim Bob getting a beautiful new house and then wanting to redo the kitchen because it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

This is what I had hoped I wouldn't start LOL.
Michelle and Jim Bob did build the kitchens of their dreams. K & J's new kitchen appeared to be a TLC dream, and was donated by the kitchen people. I have no idea if M & JB would say yes if TLC offered them the same.

Since their kids are homeschooled they really aren't in competition with other kids on "status" clothing. They seem just fine wearing the consignment store and second hand clothing.

Again, until their books come out, I have no idea how the kids feel about used clothes and shoes. Nothing to do with competition, and everything to do with having something no one else wore. Not always. Just sometime. Who knows, maybe a hissy fit was thrown over it..if M & JB didn't want it shown, I trust it would not be.

Most of the trips they take they are still using that "bus" that they had before the show ever started.

They have been on a fair share of plane trips.

Finally, none of the Duggars ever seem to have that "entitlement" philosophy that Kate had.

I have no idea since we only see what TLC wants us to see. TLC wanted us to see Kate just as we saw her. I assume you are talking about the adults, since I never thought the Goss kids had any entitlement issues.

It seems like Kate just can't let go of the limelight. I think she's already outdone her 30 seconds of fame and I predict both the book and her new tv show will be a flash in the pan and we won't be hearing so much about her after that.

Does Kate not want to let it go, or is that TLC pushing her? I'd just as soon see her have her fame, if that's what she wants, and let the kids stay home.

I wonder what would happen if some of the D kids dared to tell mom and dad they no longer wanted to be on a show. And while I'm on a roll..what's with all the PDA between the older boy and his wife? Most of the church people I know, keep that private. Oh a kiss here and there, but she's always grabbing onto him.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

I wonder what would happen if some of the D kids dared to tell mom and dad they no longer wanted to be on a show. And while I'm on a roll..what's with all the PDA between the older boy and his wife? Most of the church people I know, keep that private. Oh a kiss here and there, but she's always grabbing onto him.

Doris, that made me laugh because it's so true! It's like they're playing catch up since they didn't kiss or anything before they were married. It is a bit much!

 

[newtodis]

I saw the book cover. Kate looked really good. I'm amazed at what they can do with hair extensions lately!

I thought she looked a lot like Kathy Lee Gifford or someone...it was kind of creepy.

Many, many J&K threads ago I mentioned the similarities between J&K and my sister and BIL. After 34 yrs. of marriage, I think they are through. Nothing concrete yet, but it looks really bad.
Hearing the 2 of them talk, it is so much like all the J&K crap that it is spooky. My sister and BIL do not even know who J&K are.

So sorry to hear that!

 

[Promomx2]

Betcha atleast one of the books that the gosselin kids write when they get older will be turned into a movie of the week.