Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread-Part 4

[kidshop]

The time to speak out, would have been privately to Kate at the time. Or even privately now. Certainly his article wouldn't change anything. I can't post what would be my back up to him and what he should have done with Bible verses or I take a chance on closing the thead. But there really isn't anything for him to say to Kate based on what he wrote IMO..'hey Kate, we aren't happy that you won't come out to play?" or Hey Kate, how come you won't accept our help?'. I see reasons from his post why I wouldn't have accepted his help.

I can only assume that her friends know how easy it is for the media to trip you up, misquote you, etc. and perhaps being quiet rather than doing a 'he said, she said is best.' For me, that would be a real friend...one that supports me.

And who knows, maybe she isn't a nice person, (I really don't know..I only see what TLC wants me to see) but so far, I haven't seen anyone say that, unless it's been for pay or spite...or that 15 minutes of fame.

In any case, I would assume the show will come to a halt, just because the kids are getting bigger, and TLC will be putting the next family prey or group on, that everyone will watch and think is cute.

How do you know what he did or didn't do in private? He mentions that those who tried to say something were removed from their life. I believe that to be true. I really like "the emperor has no clothes" reference. It is very fitting.

 

[DMRick]

And that is your opinion. If it were my family and they asked me to be quiet and just let it die down I would (even if they didn't tell me to be quiet, I would be unless they asked me to speak up). I wouldn't talk about my friends or family or church family in public, in mags or on boards unless they tell me it's OK. Good or bad. I think that often makes enemies, when someone speaks and the press pulls just a part of it. I think it's smart that they just stay in the background. Kate may feel, and those that really know her, that she doesn't need defending. We all have opinions and this one is mine.

--------------------------------

That's one of the things I have always found very odd about this situation.. Kate comes from a very large family, she worked prior to having her children, her father is a Pastor, and not one single person has ever come forward to say something in her defense unless they are employed by her and Jon..

I don't "buy" that it's because they don't want to get caught up in all of the media attention - because the media attention has not always been as intense as it is now.. If she were my daughter, my sister, my friend, my cousin, my sister-in-law, a member of my church, I could not - and would not - stand by and watch her go through all of this drama alone without defending her (assuming she isn't the way the media has portrayed her to be)..

There's a lot more to this story - and it has nothing to do with avoiding the media or being jealous of her fame and fortune - that unfortunately has been obtained at the expense of her children.. Eventually it will all come out - and it won't be pretty..

 

[madge]

several pages ago, someone asked when Jon & Kate's anniversary is .. it's tomorrow. 10 years.

 

[DMRick]

How do you know what he did or didn't do in private?

Because he didn't say he did. I only have what he wrote to go on. I did write and ask him if he talked to her in private first. I'll let you know if he responds.

 

[kidshop]

Have you all seen the video where Kate won't give Mady (who is not throwing a fit, but not asking nicely either) for water, then takes a drink herself?! It's before a filmed interview Now I know I am biased, but I felt pain watching that! It's on the GWOP site and probably on youtube.

 

[longstangetrip]

Have you all seen the video where Kate won't give Mady (who is not throwing a fit, but not asking nicely either) for water, then takes a drink herself?! It's before a filmed interview Now I know I am biased, but I felt pain watching that! It's on the GWOP site and probably on youtube.

Yes, I agree, it's painful to watch.

on another topic...I don't understand accusing everyone who writes a journalistic piece or voices an experience or opinon of being fame seeking. We could say this about every thing published I guess. Aren't all authors of articles trying to inform, persuade or remind us about something? Is that bad? Why would he (the neighbor/minister) have written about the "train wreck" before it happened? Do you not think people have genuine concern for what they have witnessed on reality tv, much less first hand? Why is he hypocritical in his writings? I don't know anything about him. Would someone speaking out on the Gosselins' behalf be called invalid and fame seeking? I wonder.

 

[LoraJ]

Yes, I agree, it's painful to watch.

on another topic...I don't understand accusing everyone who rights a journalistic piece or voices an experience or opinon of being fame seeking. We could say this about every thing published I guess. Aren't all authors of articles trying to inform, persuade or remind us about something? Is that bad? Why would he (the neighbor/minister) have written about the "train wreck" before it happened? Do you not think people have genuine concern for what they have witnessed on reality tv, much less first hand? Why is he hypocritical in his writings? I don't know anything about him. Would someone speaking out on the Gosselins' behalf be called invalid and fame seeking? I wonder.

Because he started out by saying he was not gossping, yet he was gossiping. If he had just left it with his concerns about the family and leaving out teh he said she said gossip, it would have been fine.

 

[Promomx2]

I do not consider what the pastor said to be "gossiping", as he stated, he lived in the neighborhood before they moved in and he was stating his experiences. And because they were in a negative way, he is being ridiculed. So I guess all the posters here who have seen Kate in person and commented in a negative way are also looking for their "15 minutes of fame"?

I understand this is a open forum, but maybe people need to really think before they type.

(now let me go find my bullet-proof vest.)

 

[LoraJ]

I do not consider what the pastor said to be "gossiping", as he stated, he lived in the neighborhood before they moved in and he was stating his experiences. And because they were in a negative way, he is being ridiculed. So I guess all the posters here who have seen Kate in person and commented in a negative way are also looking for their "15 minutes of fame"?

I understand this is a open forum, but maybe people need to really think before they type.

(now let me go find my bullet-proof vest.)

Ridiculed? I was stating my OPINION that he was adding in gossip where it did not need to be. And *I* found it hypocritical. He's stating his experiences that seemed to be mostly he said she said from his other neighbors. That is called gossip.

I guess only people who hate Kate are allowed to post in this thread? What do I need to think about before I type?

 

[longstangetrip]

Because he started out by saying he was not gossping, yet he was gossiping. If he had just left it with his concerns about the family and leaving out teh he said she said gossip, it would have been fine.

How does one justify his concerns without verbalizing his experiences? Weren't they the author's experiences? I guess I'm confused. He witnessed and/or took part in what he wrote about I thought.

 

[LoraJ]

How does one justify his concerns without verbalizing his experiences? Weren't they the author's experiences? I guess I'm confused. He witnessed and/or took part in what he wrote about I thought.

He can verbalize them to the proper people instead of the world.

 

[DMRick]

That's why we all get to have opinions. I thought, by saying he had constantly been talking to the neighbors about Kate and what he said people said, that he was gossiping. You can also give your opinion. I do think before I type, and that was what I thought and typed. That he was a gossip. He didn't base what he was saying on just what he thought, and knew, but what others had told him. Basically he wasn't happy because Kate kept to herself. I'm not ridiculing him at all. I just think he didn't think before he typed. He said it wasn't gossip. In my opinion it was.
If Madge sold her story to a rag Mag, based on one visit to see Kate, someone that she never talked to, and said a bunch of bad stuff about her, based on what someone else told her (Madge) I prob would say it was her 15 minutes (sorry Madge, for using you as an example). And it would be my opinion.

Someone asked why should he have written about the train wreck before it happened? Because he said this among other things (like what the neighbors thought about her).

In addition, there was a growing awareness that something was just not right.

So why not talk to Kate at that time, or if he was concerned, why not write about it then if he thought writing would help. IMO, because this is when everyone has a story to tell. Many are concerned about what the kids will read later in life. I'm thinking they will read this as well.
No bullet proof vest needed. You have your opinion and I have mine. I'm not writing against you, just about my opinion about a situation.

I do not consider what the pastor said to be "gossiping", as he stated, he lived in the neighborhood before they moved in and he was stating his experiences. And because they were in a negative way, he is being ridiculed. So I guess all the posters here who have seen Kate in person and commented in a negative way are also looking for their "15 minutes of fame"?

I understand this is a open forum, but maybe people need to really think before they type.

(now let me go find my bullet-proof vest.)

 

[kidshop]

He can verbalize them to the proper people instead of the world.

I think his blog is mostly for the people he leads and those who like his writings, not the whole world. He is urging those people to take a good hard look at what is going on and if that is something that should be supported. He does not think it should be, and lays out the reasons why. Do you have to hate Kate to say something negative and point out obvious (IMO) poor decisions/actions? Is that the only reasonable motivation? It's about hate? I don't hate her, I don't know her. I only know what I have seen and what has been reported by those who have had contact with her. Very little is positive.

 

[DMRick]

How does one justify his concerns without verbalizing his experiences? Weren't they the author's experiences? I guess I'm confused. He witnessed and/or took part in what he wrote about I thought.

Many talked to him about their experience. Constantly. They urged him to write about K & J. He talked about them in his own speeches. Much of this was heresay about how Kate was acting. If, as a Christian, he had a problem with them, the first thing he should have done was talk to them in person. He didn't mention he had, he didn't say they wouldn't speak to him. He just repeated what others had told him (and perhaps he offered help as well and was turned down). Usually that is not how a Christian would approach something that he feels was a problem. If he had just talked about what is going on now, and what he actually witnessed that was bad (she didn't always say thank you, she wouldn't take their help, she wouldn't come out to talk to the neighbors..I would have been embarrassed to base anything on those things myself, so I assume there was something more than those things) and his opinion of what the TV show was doing to the kids, I would feel differently about his doing a piece. I think he could have left off the whole top part.
But again, this is my opinion, all Christians (which is whom his audience usually is) may not feel the same as me that it is Biblical about how something like this is handled.. This is just my opinion. I purposely did not quote scripture, and I hope I wasn't being too 'churchy' and end up having this thread closed. Mods please just delete my post if so.

 

[DMRick]

Do you have to hate Kate to say something negative and point out obvious (IMO) poor decisions/actions? Is that the only reasonable motivation? It's about hate? I don't hate her, I don't know her. I only know what I have seen and what has been reported by those who have had contact with her. Very little is positive.

No, I don't hate her..I don't hate anyone. I don't even know her. I have certainly over these past 4 threads pointed out a fair share of negative things about her. Lately I haven't, but that's because I don't agree that some of the picky things people have posted about her makes her a bad person. There are some things I don't think she should be doing, but wearing high heels or a bikini or short skirt or a funky hairdo aren't one of those.

 

[kidshop]

Many talked to him about their experience. Constantly. They urged him to write about K & J. He talked about them in his own speeches. Much of this was heresay about how Kate was acting. If, as a Christian, he had a problem with them, the first thing he should have done was talk to them in person. He didn't mention he had, he didn't say they wouldn't speak to him. He just repeated what others had told him (and perhaps he offered help as well and was turned down). Usually that is not how a Christian would approach something that he feels was a problem. If he had just talked about what is going on now, and what he actually witnessed that was bad (she didn't always say thank you, she wouldn't take their help, she wouldn't come out to talk to the neighbors..I would have been embarrassed to base anything on those things myself, so I assume there was something more than those things) and his opinion of what the TV show was doing to the kids, I would feel differently about his doing a piece. I think he could have left off the whole top part.
But again, this is my opinion, all Christians (which is whom his audience usually is) may not feel the same as me that it is Biblical about how something like this is handled.. This is just my opinion. I purposely did not quote scripture, and I hope I wasn't being too 'churchy' and end up having this thread closed. Mods please just delete my post if so.

This is what he actually said: "I've remained publicly silent on this clan (that's become more than a blip on the pop culture radar) for a long time. Numerous people have suggested to me that I offer some analysis publicly, because I'm a neighbor and the President of an organization that promotes the well-being of kids The Center for Parent/Youth Understanding. It wasn't easy being quiet when you could clearly see what was happening. However, I think it was the right thing to do. As those who are around me know, there were times that I brought them up over the course of the last two years when I'd be out speaking. But it was all in passing. Youth workers at some conferences who could answer the fun little trivia question - "What current TV reality show features the CPYU office building?" -could win a book. Yep, our office was sometimes caught during filming. As the popularity of Jon & Kate Plus 8 grew among Christians who were thrilled to be watching one of their own, just about everywhere I went to speak I would tell people where I was from in Pennsylvania. . . which would be followed excitedly with the same question from unknowing and faithful fans who had blindly partaken of the J & K kool-aid: "Central Pennsylvania! Do you live near Jon and Kate?!? Oh, I love them!" I would quickly answer, "Yes. And you need to stop watching." My response was usually seen as heartless and would elicit protests. Sometimes a few words to back up my opinion were enough to convince people that reality TV is not reality. Usually, people looked at me like I was a heartless liar. . . more evidence of the fact that good-natured people sometimes naively prefer to believe their own fantasies, rather than the truth. There were good reasons why I'd answer that way. More on that in a bit. . . but first, some history..."

He said he only spoke of them in passing and in response to being asked if he knew Jon and Kate. He was their neighbor for 3 years...this WAS his experience.

 

[Buckalew11]

I think his blog is mostly for the people he leads and those who like his writings, not the whole world. He is urging those people to take a good hard look at what is going on and if that is something that should be supported. He does not think it should be, and lays out the reasons why. Do you have to hate Kate to say something negative and point out obvious (IMO) poor decisions/actions? Is that the only reasonable motivation? It's about hate? I don't hate her, I don't know her. I only know what I have seen and what has been reported by those who have had contact with her. Very little is positive.

He does go on to something more important, imho.
He says, " What I say to myself is what I will say to everyone who is thinking about the Gosselins: You are no better. The seeds of what you don't like in them live in you. Your life and family are far from perfect. Keep looking in the mirror to see where you might be doing the same things. . . although not in a highly-publicized and public way that the world can see. And if you/I don't. . . then shame on you/me.

I think that is an important part of his thoughts and writing. To examine ourselves.

 

[DMRick]

We are not going to agree on this. I also quoted what he actually said. We each quoted different parts of his post. I didn't like the top part of what he said when he talked about the neighborhood and why people didn't like Kate. I thought it was gossip. He wouldn't have gotten me to stop watching them either. He said in what you quoted (I assume, but I could be wrong, that he was often talking to other Christians who many also didn't seem to think what he was saying was enough to comdemn the show or Kate)

"Yes. And you need to stop watching." My response was usually seen as heartless and would elicit protests. Sometimes a few words to back up my opinion were enough to convince people that reality TV is not reality. Usually, people looked at me like I was a heartless liar. . .

.

Now, if he had some facts about how the kids were being treated, I might have listened. Being told that I needed to stop watching based on hearsay and that Kate wouldn't accept help and didn't talk to the neighbors doesn't do it for me..it just isn't enough. I still believe he should have talked to the Gosselins instead of going out and about repeating what he and his neighbors thought.

This is what he actually said: "I've remained publicly silent on this clan (that's become more than a blip on the pop culture radar) for a long time. Numerous people have suggested to me that I offer some analysis publicly, because I'm a neighbor and the President of an organization that promotes the well-being of kids The Center for Parent/Youth Understanding. It wasn't easy being quiet when you could clearly see what was happening. However, I think it was the right thing to do. As those who are around me know, there were times that I brought them up over the course of the last two years when I'd be out speaking. But it was all in passing. Youth workers at some conferences who could answer the fun little trivia question - "What current TV reality show features the CPYU office building?" -could win a book. Yep, our office was sometimes caught during filming. As the popularity of Jon & Kate Plus 8 grew among Christians who were thrilled to be watching one of their own, just about everywhere I went to speak I would tell people where I was from in Pennsylvania. . . which would be followed excitedly with the same question from unknowing and faithful fans who had blindly partaken of the J & K kool-aid: "Central Pennsylvania! Do you live near Jon and Kate?!? Oh, I love them!" I would quickly answer, "Yes. And you need to stop watching." My response was usually seen as heartless and would elicit protests. Sometimes a few words to back up my opinion were enough to convince people that reality TV is not reality. Usually, people looked at me like I was a heartless liar. . . more evidence of the fact that good-natured people sometimes naively prefer to believe their own fantasies, rather than the truth. There were good reasons why I'd answer that way. More on that in a bit. . . but first, some history..."

He said he only spoke of them in passing and in response to being asked if he knew Jon and Kate. He was their neighbor for 3 years...this WAS his experience.

 

[lucas]

Anybody see J&K on American Chopper tonight? Things did not seem good between J&K - at all. It was 1 1/2 hour show. I had never seen American Chopper before but those guys are funny. It is being re-run right now.

 

[madge]

Anybody see J&K on American Chopper tonight? Things did not seem good between J&K - at all. It was 1 1/2 hour show. I had never seen American Chopper before but those guys are funny. It is being re-run right now.

well, I changed the channel .. and the satellite froze up. If that isn't a sign not to watch, I don't know what is

In the episode description, they make it sound like Jon commissioned the making of the bike. On Larry King this week, one of the OCC guys said Discovery/TLC came to them and told them to make a bike for Jon.