Jodi Arias Trial Part 2, starting with JM cross of JA

[Uncle Remus]

As far as the pictures taken in the shower, I think that she used that opportunity to get him in a vulnerable position, and I believe she used the whole "Calvin Klein" photo shoot idea. It was, after all, a very picture taking kind of day. And she probably used his pride in his new physique to get him to go along.

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't see fear in his eyes or anything in that full on face picture. I still think he's doing the brooding model look, so prevalent in photo shoots, and that if he were scared, or had a gun on him, his eyes would be wider, his mouth would be open, and he would be reacting more openly. JMHO

Of course Travis was leading a double life...to some extent, isn't everyone? How many people put out to the public what they're doing sexually in private? How many other Mormons/Catholics/etc have premarital sex? How many of those kids wearing purity rings aren't so pure? And how many of them actually step back and announce "OK, I'm leaving this church because I've now done XYZ"? People are involved in religion every day who don't follow every tenet. Granted, the sex issue is a huge part of the Mormon Church. But, Travis is the one that got caught. How many of those other "devout" Mormons aren't also breaking Mormon laws? I'm not saying that that makes it "ok"...actually, as far as I'm concerned, who cares (consenting adults).

I have a problem with politicians who try to control people's bodies and lives with laws, and then we find out that they're doing exactly what they're trying to prevent others from doing. I don't have a problem with CHURCH members being involved in a church and in their private lives breaking rules which they may have to answer, if found out, to the church leaders and/or God, but not the public.

No one else Travis dated testified about any desire on his part to have sex with little boys or girls, and there is no evidence ANYWHERE, esp on his computer where you'd expect to find it, of pedophilia. And of the two of them...Jodi and Travis...Jodi is the one known to have been sexually active, and to have tried a variety of sex acts. I think Travis was a frustrated (and yes, flawed...sometimes very) 30 yr old man, wanting to lead the good life, but found in Jodi the opportunity to let loose. And again, I think Jodi ran with the little girl fantasy.

I'm not disputing what Travis said on the tape. I'm disputing that it's any indication of pedophilia, especially the way it was said and to whom it was said. It just sort of sickens me, quite honestly, to basically convict someone of "having pedophile tendencies", or to suggest that MAYBE he would have acted on them if he hadn't been murdered.

Well, if Jodi ran with the little girl fantasy, it appears Travis liked it that way since he continued to have a sexual relationship with her until his death. Unfortunately the victims in cases like this (self defense) are also on trial as to whether or not their death/killing was due to their own behavior/action and justified. Since there's a .25 stolen from Jodi's residence prior to leaving Yreka, Travis was killed with a .25 and she admits she threw a .25 away in the desert, it seems to lean towards premeditated murder rather than self defense regardless of how Travis may have contributed to his own death including allowing the "stalking evil psycho" into his home for another round of fantasy sex play.

 

[PizzieDuster]

Great info posted today!

 

[mattzane227]

Thanks for posting the info. I believe Jodi introduced him to so many things. What does not makes sense is she said she ran into the closet with him chasing her. So if he chases her into the closet wouldn't they pass each other on her way back to the bathroom? Other wise the shooting would be in the closet since he was right behind her?

There are two doors in the closet. One opens to the bathroom and one to the bedroom. It's a huge walk in closet.

She's running away from him. It's a very short "hallway". It can barely be considered a hall even. He's so close that she hears his footsteps chasing her. She has been chased before in the same manner and tried to go left to go down the stairs and leave and she got caught. So this time she knew going left didn't work so she went right into the closet and while he is right behind her, skies to the ceiling and grabs a gun from the top shelf and has time to point it at him before he is able to get to her.

 

[Dee77]

Hi Dee. To multi-quote, just hit the little button with the " marks that is next to the button that says quote. You can hit as many of those as you like and then at the end of the thread hit reply and all the posts you want to quote will be there

Thanks!

 

[PebblesMK]

As far as the pictures taken in the shower, I think that she used that opportunity to get him in a vulnerable position, and I believe she used the whole "Calvin Klein" photo shoot idea. It was, after all, a very picture taking kind of day. And she probably used his pride in his new physique to get him to go along.

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't see fear in his eyes or anything in that full on face picture. I still think he's doing the brooding model look, so prevalent in photo shoots, and that if he were scared, or had a gun on him, his eyes would be wider, his mouth would be open, and he would be reacting more openly. JMHO

Of course Travis was leading a double life...to some extent, isn't everyone? How many people put out to the public what they're doing sexually in private? How many other Mormons/Catholics/etc have premarital sex? How many of those kids wearing purity rings aren't so pure? And how many of them actually step back and announce "OK, I'm leaving this church because I've now done XYZ"? People are involved in religion every day who don't follow every tenet. Granted, the sex issue is a huge part of the Mormon Church. But, Travis is the one that got caught. How many of those other "devout" Mormons aren't also breaking Mormon laws? I'm not saying that that makes it "ok"...actually, as far as I'm concerned, who cares (consenting adults).

I have a problem with politicians who try to control people's bodies and lives with laws, and then we find out that they're doing exactly what they're trying to prevent others from doing. I don't have a problem with CHURCH members being involved in a church and in their private lives breaking rules which they may have to answer, if found out, to the church leaders and/or God, but not the public.

No one else Travis dated testified about any desire on his part to have sex with little boys or girls, and there is no evidence ANYWHERE, esp on his computer where you'd expect to find it, of pedophilia. And of the two of them...Jodi and Travis...Jodi is the one known to have been sexually active, and to have tried a variety of sex acts. I think Travis was a frustrated (and yes, flawed...sometimes very) 30 yr old man, wanting to lead the good life, but found in Jodi the opportunity to let loose. And again, I think Jodi ran with the little girl fantasy.

I'm not disputing what Travis said on the tape. I'm disputing that it's any indication of pedophilia, especially the way it was said and to whom it was said. It just sort of sickens me, quite honestly, to basically convict someone of "having pedophile tendencies", or to suggest that MAYBE he would have acted on them if he hadn't been murdered.

MaryAnn, I don't think anything Travis said shows pedaphilic (sp?) tendencies. A lot of guys like the "school girl" fantasy and I do believe it's because of the innocence. I've been compared to a young teenager with how I talk...but I've also been compared to a sex phone operator. I'm willing to bet that those who made those comments weren't alluding to their sexual preferances. Nothing wrong with a fantasy- as long as it's consensual,

Also, among my friends, we talk about many things- sex, grooming, men, fantasties and whatever else has come up at times and I will say that the majority of my female (and male) friends prefer a smooth nether region. I think it's more the times and society than anything more. Personal preference. Whatever. But yeah,

Uncle Remus: The last pic of Jodi dragging Travis, there is a pant leg and bloody body- what part of the body is it?

 

[beachdodrun]

I think the recording of Travis saying Jodi sounded like a 12 year old *etc, etc, and that it's hot makes it sound like Travis might have had pedophiliac tendencies. I just don't know any men who would think that of 12 year old girls.

* Still keeping in mind this is a family board so it's hard to delicately post what Travis said on the taped conversation.

I dont really think TA words about the 12 yr old were in any connected to pedophillia. I think JA was just using a young sounding voice, and JA really got into the role playing. When TA heard just how much she enjoyed it, I think he was saying something to the effect of "You sounded like you REALLY enjoyed that and experienced something better than normal, a new experience, just like a 12 yr old little girl. " He could have just as easily said "14 yr old" or "16 yr old" I am guessing 12 yr old was just the words that quickly escaped with little thought and no ill intent....other than JA having the words recorded.

 

[beachdodrun]

Many have speculated that TA wasnt a nice person. I am not in any way trying to defend many of his selfish actions, but more to the fact, attempting to understand thoughts of a 30 yr old repressed male full of testosterone mixed with an initiating/willing/coniving/jealous female. I am guessing TA was internally torn trying to live the life his religion expected of him. He wanted to be good and hopefully find a good mormom girl that would make a good mormon wife. But you can only repress so many male hormones. Maybe he tried repressing according to the tapes with use of vaseline. But once he was offered a pretty,live, willing human alternative....hormones will win most of the time. He kept the games alive just enough to keep JA coming back. He looked good, had money, nice home, etc. But he couldnt tell his friends about his ongoing JA contact as they thought his search was for the good mormon girl. His taking Mimi to Mexico was the straw that broke the camels back. He did disrespect JA in that he kept consuming what was being offered (most single 30 yr old males would) but it didnt sound like he was leading her on or promising a future, etc. She knew the rules the whole time but was just hoping she could get him to change. I consider them as using each other equally each with ulterior motives. If all women could kill a man over some of the sexual games men have played for thousands of yrs....all of us men would be dead by the time we are 21 yrs old.

 

[PebblesMK]

Many have speculated that TA wasnt a nice person. I am not in any way trying to defend many of his selfish actions, but more to the fact, attempting to understand thoughts of a 30 yr old repressed male full of testosterone mixed with an initiating/willing/coniving/jealous female. I am guessing TA was internally torn trying to live the life his religion expected of him. He wanted to be good and hopefully find a good mormom girl that would make a good mormon wife. But you can only repress so many male hormones. Maybe he tried repressing according to the tapes with use of vaseline. But once he was offered a pretty,live, willing human alternative....hormones will win most of the time. He kept the games alive just enough to keep JA coming back. He looked good, had money, nice home, etc. But he couldnt tell his friends about his ongoing JA contact as they thought his search was for the good mormon girl. His taking Mimi to Mexico was the straw that broke the camels back. He did disrespect JA in that he kept consuming what was being offered (most single 30 yr old males would) but it didnt sound like he was leading her on or promising a future, etc. She knew the rules the whole time but was just hoping she could get him to change. I consider them as using each other equally each with ulterior motives. If all women could kill a man over some of the sexual games men have played for thousands of yrs....all of us men would be dead by the time we are 21 yrs old.

Hahahahah, there is one or two in my life that wouldn't have made it too long (though they were older). Oh to have the life of a praying mantis!

 

[horseshowmom]

Well, if Jodi ran with the little girl fantasy, it appears Travis liked it that way since he continued to have a sexual relationship with her until his death. Unfortunately the victims in cases like this (self defense) are also on trial as to whether or not their death/killing was due to their own behavior/action and justified. Since there's a .25 stolen from Jodi's residence prior to leaving Yreka, Travis was killed with a .25 and she admits she threw a .25 away in the desert, it seems to lean towards premeditated murder rather than self defense regardless of how Travis may have contributed to his own death including allowing the "stalking evil psycho" into his home for another round of fantasy sex play.

I only agree with parts of this. I do think Travis used an unfortunate choice of words with the 12 year old remark. I don't think it demostrated pedophiliac tendencies. Speaking as someone who was molested as a child, I tend to have a pretty suspicious nature, but I just don't see it in this case.

I do think they argued from time to time. I don't think she was abused though. One of the text messages referenced his being "mean" to her. According to the stories she's been weaving, that could make sense. The problem is that she's been proven to be a liar over and over so I believe very little of what she's said. Anything he said to her that wasn't what she wanted to hear would have been him being mean to her in her opinion.

I do however think he definitely contributed to his own death by allowing her to keep coming around long after he should have terminated any contact with her. I'd say he paid the ultimate price for that bad judgement.

I dont really think TA words about the 12 yr old were in any connected to pedophillia. I think JA was just using a young sounding voice, and JA really got into the role playing. When TA heard just how much she enjoyed it, I think he was saying something to the effect of "You sounded like you REALLY enjoyed that and experienced something better than normal, a new experience, just like a 12 yr old little girl. " He could have just as easily said "14 yr old" or "16 yr old" I am guessing 12 yr old was just the words that quickly escaped with little thought and no ill intent....other than JA having the words recorded.

Agreed.

Many have speculated that TA wasnt a nice person. I am not in any way trying to defend many of his selfish actions, but more to the fact, attempting to understand thoughts of a 30 yr old repressed male full of testosterone mixed with an initiating/willing/coniving/jealous female. I am guessing TA was internally torn trying to live the life his religion expected of him. He wanted to be good and hopefully find a good mormom girl that would make a good mormon wife. But you can only repress so many male hormones. Maybe he tried repressing according to the tapes with use of vaseline. But once he was offered a pretty,live, willing human alternative....hormones will win most of the time. He kept the games alive just enough to keep JA coming back. He looked good, had money, nice home, etc. But he couldnt tell his friends about his ongoing JA contact as they thought his search was for the good mormon girl. His taking Mimi to Mexico was the straw that broke the camels back. He did disrespect JA in that he kept consuming what was being offered (most single 30 yr old males would) but it didnt sound like he was leading her on or promising a future, etc. She knew the rules the whole time but was just hoping she could get him to change. I consider them as using each other equally each with ulterior motives. If all women could kill a man over some of the sexual games men have played for thousands of yrs....all of us men would be dead by the time we are 21 yrs old.

Agreed again...

Looking back at some of the characters she had been involved with, TA looked really good to her. She tried to make herself as attractive to him as possible (lots and lots of sex), but in the end, that wasn't enough to hold him. While he did use her, she was a grown woman and should have left him alone when it became very plain that is was only about sex. She refused to let him go.

 

[mattzane227]

I dont really think TA words about the 12 yr old were in any connected to pedophillia. I think JA was just using a young sounding voice, and JA really got into the role playing. When TA heard just how much she enjoyed it, I think he was saying something to the effect of "You sounded like you REALLY enjoyed that and experienced something better than normal, a new experience, just like a 12 yr old little girl. " He could have just as easily said "14 yr old" or "16 yr old" I am guessing 12 yr old was just the words that quickly escaped with little thought and no ill intent....other than JA having the words recorded.

Exactly what I thought when I heard it.

 

[reelmom]

I have been thinking about this trial all weekend. The more I think about the time stamp on the pictures, I don't think she had enough time to do all that she said with him chasing her, grabbing the gun, stabbing him, slitting his throat, and dragging the body. The more I think about the pictures and look at them, I think the whole shower scene was staged by Jodi. I think she went there to give him one more chance to change his mind about not taking her to Cancun. When he didn't, I think she flipped out. She mentioned on the stand that he had started to get in shape to go to Mexico. Since he was taking Mimi to Cancun, I think Jodi took it to mean he got in shape for another girl but didn't do that for her. For a jealous stalker sociopath, this would put her over the edge that he would even think about doing something for someone else than her. I think when he said no to her, she pulled the gun on him. She made him go to the shower because she knew it would be less of a mess to wash away. I think she taunted him with his new camera he bought to take on the trip. I think she held the gun on him while she took the pictures. I think she made him pose as a way to humiliate him. I could just imagine her saying, "Show me your new muscles, Travis. How do you like me taking your picture with yorr new camera? the one you bought to take Mimi to Cancun. Not me. IF you would have taken me, this wouldn't be happening." I think the last picture with him looking straight at it, I think he had realized she wasn't going to stop. I think that is why he looks frightened but not surprised. I don't know if shot him or stabbed him first but the first act didn't kill him but disable him. She finished him off and drug him to the shower to dismember his body. There are reports that she told her cellmates in the beginning before her interviews that she chopped his body into pieces and dumped them in different places in the desert. Then she testifies to Det. Flores about the ninja story, changing the story she told cellmates. I think she had planned on doing this. I think this is where the slit neck comes in. I think she was trying to dismember his body but it was too hard and time consuming. She knew the roommates were coming back. I also think that is why she had the 2 gas gans in the trunk. To take pieces of his body to burn in the desert. This may all be far fetched but nothing she does or can do surprises me.

ETA: I also think she threw the camera in the wash as one last act of getting one over on Travis. I think she was so mad he bought a new camera to take pictures of a trip she wasn't invited to, she destroyed it in the wash on purpose. She thought all evidence would be destroyed in the process.

 

[momrek06]

Wow, I just finished reading everything from the past 24 hours on this thread. So many insightful and observant posts about JA and TA.

I was wondering, as we discuss this and put down our thoughts and theories as to exactly what lead to the murder of TA on June 4, 2008 …. does the Jury get to discuss each day's events (daily) like we are doing here OR do they have to wait until both sides are done presenting?

Last night I was watching the Late News and there was allot of info on the 'blade runner' and murdering his gf. They said he made bail and would be back in court on JUNE 4TH … I am looking at that date on the tv screen wondering why that particular date meant something to me and it hit me, the day TRAVIS DIED.

I think I might be overly vested in Travis' case.

Have a great Sunday, everyone and see you all in the morning!!

 

[PebblesMK]

Wow, I just finished reading everything from the past 24 hours on this thread. So many insightful and observant posts about JA and TA.

I was wondering, as we discuss this and put down our thoughts and theories as to exactly what lead to the murder of TA on June 4, 2008 …. does the Jury get to discuss each day's events (daily) like we are doing here OR do they have to wait until both sides are done presenting?

Last night I was watching the Late News and there was allot of info on the 'blade runner' and murdering his gf. They said he made bail and would be back in court on JUNE 4TH … I am looking at that date on the tv screen wondering why that particular date meant something to me and it hit me, the day TRAVIS DIED.

I think I might be overly vested in Travis' case.

Have a great Sunday, everyone and see you all in the morning!!

I would think that they'd have the opportunity to talk amongst themsevles and compare notes so that they're all caught up and somewhat on the same page. Or maybe they can't talk and that's why deliberation takes so long at times. I'm far too into this case and will bring it up to friends or people I know and they stare at me like I have two heads. All of you are my escape! I'll be home from class just in time for court tomorrow. BRING IT ON!

 

[izzy]

I would think that they'd have the opportunity to talk amongst themsevles and compare notes so that they're all caught up and somewhat on the same page. Or maybe they can't talk and that's why deliberation takes so long at times. I'm far too into this case and will bring it up to friends or people I know and they stare at me like I have two heads. All of you are my escape! I'll be home from class just in time for court tomorrow. BRING IT ON!

I was a jury member on murder trial a few years ago (gang member stabbed another gang member 13 times - shudder) and we were instructed not to talk about the trial amongst ourselves until it was time to deliberate. Perhaps Arizona is different than Virginia, though.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Wow, I just finished reading everything from the past 24 hours on this thread. So many insightful and observant posts about JA and TA.

I was wondering, as we discuss this and put down our thoughts and theories as to exactly what lead to the murder of TA on June 4, 2008 &. does the Jury get to discuss each day's events (daily) like we are doing here OR do they have to wait until both sides are done presenting?

Last night I was watching the Late News and there was allot of info on the 'blade runner' and murdering his gf. They said he made bail and would be back in court on JUNE 4TH & I am looking at that date on the tv screen wondering why that particular date meant something to me and it hit me, the day TRAVIS DIED.

I think I might be overly vested in Travis' case.

Have a great Sunday, everyone and see you all in the morning!!

I would think that they'd have the opportunity to talk amongst themsevles and compare notes so that they're all caught up and somewhat on the same page. Or maybe they can't talk and that's why deliberation takes so long at times. I'm far too into this case and will bring it up to friends or people I know and they stare at me like I have two heads. All of you are my escape! I'll be home from class just in time for court tomorrow. BRING IT ON!

No, they're not allowed to talk to anyone including each other about this case until the judge instructs them to go into deliberations after the testimony concludes and the judge gives jury instructions.

And that picture that you previously asked about, the State alleges that is Jodi's foot and pants leg while she's dragging Travis down the hallway after his throat is cut. I think the State proved that.

_____________________________________________________________

And I'll stand by my previous statement that Travis had pedophile thoughts/tendencies because he said Jodi was hot because of the 12 year old comparison. It's very clear in the taped conversation at about 32:00 minutes. It wasn't because Jodi sounded like a 12 year old, it was because Travis thought she sounded like a 12 year old etc. etc and that's hot. Who thinks that but a pedophile? But Jodi never said she killed Travis because he was pedophile so that can't be her defense.

And if one believes that Jodi confronted Travis about his pedophilia, threatened him with it, well, one can then understand why he might lunge at her (even if it wasn't true). And if one is aggravated over her demeanor (arrogance) on the stand and wants to slap her damn face, again, one could understand Travis lunging at her. Hell, I wanted to lunge at her when she was giving Det Flores her 2nd statement about the masked intruders.

So far Jodi hasn't overcome the circumstantial evidence that she killed Travis with oddly enough the same caliber weapon stolen from her grandparents' home. Evidently she did have the premeditation to steal that weapon, take it to Travis' home and kill him, it was just too handy in a split second.

 

[usnuzuloose]

Well most of the time people who are into children you are going to find porn on their computer. Not only were there no websites. There were not any images of boys in his computer to even just print out.

I truly believe Jodi introduced him to allot of things. She admitted she tried covering her tracks for the sake of forensics. But the pictures and there times do not coincide with all that, including the killing. The state has so much evidence. I am sure Jaun will go over the times of when the last picture was taken to the next one which is only 50 seconds. Plus at 5:30 she only had so much time to the other things she did before the roommate returning home. I would love to know when the jail submitted the magazines over to the state.

If this lady Ann? is on probation I wonder how much trouble she could be in.Thank you everyone, you guys give me a place to talk about this. I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings.

 

[BearcatsFan]

I'm finally caught up reading everything that has been posted this weekend. So many good points and lots of information - thank you everyone!

I personally don't believe he was a pedophile - I don't believe it in the least. I think Jodi had a huge influence over him sexually. I won't go so far as to say she corrupted him, but I do believe she was the source of many of the ideas/activities that were taking place because I believe she was far more experienced than he was.

I am anxious for the trial to begin tomorrow. I'm already trying to figure out what I can make for dinner that's quick and easy.

 

[horseshowmom]

I have been thinking about this trial all weekend. The more I think about the time stamp on the pictures, I don't think she had enough time to do all that she said with him chasing her, grabbing the gun, stabbing him, slitting his throat, and dragging the body. The more I think about the pictures and look at them, I think the whole shower scene was staged by Jodi. I think she went there to give him one more chance to change his mind about not taking her to Cancun. When he didn't, I think she flipped out. She mentioned on the stand that he had started to get in shape to go to Mexico. Since he was taking Mimi to Cancun, I think Jodi took it to mean he got in shape for another girl but didn't do that for her. For a jealous stalker sociopath, this would put her over the edge that he would even think about doing something for someone else than her. I think when he said no to her, she pulled the gun on him. She made him go to the shower because she knew it would be less of a mess to wash away. I think she taunted him with his new camera he bought to take on the trip. I think she held the gun on him while she took the pictures. I think she made him pose as a way to humiliate him. I could just imagine her saying, "Show me your new muscles, Travis. How do you like me taking your picture with yorr new camera? the one you bought to take Mimi to Cancun. Not me. IF you would have taken me, this wouldn't be happening." I think the last picture with him looking straight at it, I think he had realized she wasn't going to stop. I think that is why he looks frightened but not surprised.

I don't know if shot him or stabbed him first but the first act didn't kill him but disable him. She finished him off and drug him to the shower to dismember his body. I think she had planned on doing this. I think this is where the slit neck comes in. I think she was trying to dismember his body but it was too hard and time consuming. She knew the roommates were coming back. I also think that is why she had the 2 gas gans in the trunk. To take pieces of his body to burn in the desert. This may all be far fetched but nothing she does or can do surprises me.

Very possible scenario. I agree that he looks scared but not surprised. I hadn't thought about the possibility that she had planned to dismember him, but it would certainly be possible that she would think about that but then ran out of time.

Truthfully, with her, anything could be possible.

 

[usnuzuloose]

To dispose of his body, there would not be enough time. The roommate was due home at 6:30. So from the time she did all the things she did she could not dismember him and clean up with out being caught.

 

[Promomx2]

I hadn't heard about the roommate coming home at 6:30 the day Travis was killed. Did the roommate get home at 6:30? And was Jodi's car there?