Jesus changed my life!!!!!

Melanie, welcome to this thread. It been interesting reading and learning from it. There are a few places where it gets dicey, but for the most part it's been a great thread!

Fitswimmer, good question, and why not on other threads too?
 
Well caught up to all 46 pages...sheesh. I did get some work done here at work :thumbsup2 .

thanks for the welcome. I throughly enjoyed reading, and learning all about everyone's beliefs. I have been in this thread all day :rotfl: .
 
Melwood23 said:
I am only on page 10 and this is the first thread to actually bring tears to my eyes.


Just wanted to say that though I was raised Catholic, and still consider myself one, I don't, or rarely go to church. Mainly because I don't believe that Catholics are any better than any other Christian church, and to say that non Catholics are welcome but can not participate in communion because only Catholics are allowed recieve the body and blood of Christ is just not right. But then I am weird. Plus also have other issues, one being the homosexual stance. But I also was always curious when going to school, especially after having to go to Catholic school, on other religions, just in general. Actually had one religion teacher try to do that, but was told nope, can't teach that :rolleyes: .

Yes I believe in Jesus. I believe he wanted us to learn to love all, to be tolerant of all, and to just be good people. I do try, and yes I fail miserably, and I am the first to admit that. But to be told unless I am all Jesus, and must live a good christian life, is kind of hard when, by some 'Christians' view, I was condemened to hell at time of conception. Being born out of wedlock and gay, boy I have 2 paths to hell.

Anyways it is nice to find some people discussing religion/no religion in a calm, peaceful manner, and being tolerant of others, no matter what their view is.

Isn't that what being Disney is all about :love:


Peace, Love and Toleance
I am so sorry that someone told you that you were condemned at conception for being born out of wedlock and being gay. I can't imagine why someone would be so hurtful to another human being. According to my beliefs, we're all in need of a Savior and are equally condemned because we all fall short of God's perfection. My sins are no better or worse than anyone else's, and it's my job to worry about my own wrongdoings instead of those of others. That is what is so wonderful about salvation through Christ--He loves each and every one of us no matter what. All we have to do is accept His gift of salvation through Christ's sacrifice. Again, I am so sorry for the hurtful things that have been said to you. :hug:
 
Wasn't so much one person, just various 'christian' organizations. Just made me not want to attend a specific church. So its just trying to find the right place where I can feel free to worship, and not feel quilty, more for the gay part than the out of wedlock (that was in the early 60's when that was a no no anyways).

Don't even get me started on the TV evanglists(I am not good at spelling as you can tell :rotfl: ). Not saying all are bad, just the very vocal ones.

Anyways I just enjoy being able to to freely talk about my beliefs with out being condemned. I figure all the other stuff is between me and God.

I really want to go to Christmas Eve Mass this year, haven't been to one in a long time. Have good memories of the last one. :cloud9:
 

I'm glad to see this thread being ressureced again(pun intended)
 
I just thought I would throw in the 2 largest Jewish movements views on Homosexuality
Two Conservative Jewish organizations, the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism have approved very similar statements concerning homosexuality.* The proclamation by the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards (CJLS) -- the movement's chief law-making body -- of the Rabbinical Assembly (RA) on 1992-MAR-25 states:

Whereas Judaism affirms that the Divine image reflected by every human being must always be cherished and affirmed, and
Whereas Jews have always been sensitive to the impact of official and unofficial prejudice and discrimination, whenever directed, and
Whereas gay and lesbian Jews have experienced not only the constant threats of physical violence and homophobic rejection, but also the pains of anti-Semitism known to all Jews and, additionally, a sense of painful alienation from our own religious institutions, and
Whereas the extended family of gay and lesbian Jews are often members of our congregations who live with concern for the safety, health, and well being of their children, and
Whereas the AIDS crisis has deeply exacerbated the anxiety and suffering of this community of Jews who need in their lives the compassionate concern and support mandated by Jewish Tradition,
Therefore be it resolved that we, the Rabbinical Assembly, while affirming our tradition's prescription for heterosexuality,


Support full civil equality for gays and lesbians in our national life, and
Deplore the violence against gays and lesbians in our society, and
Reiterate that, as are all Jews, gay men and lesbians are welcome as members in our congregations, and
Call upon our synagogues and the arms of our movement to increase our awareness, understanding and concern for our fellow Jews who are gay and lesbian [sic]. 3


The Central Conference of American Rabbis (CCAR) includes about 1,800 members who serve over 1.5 million Reform Jews. They have gradually taken a increasingly inclusive approach to homosexuality. The Conference is the largest group of rabbis in America. On 2000-MAR-29, they overwhelmingly approved a "Resolution On Same Gender Officiation" giving rabbis the option of presiding at gay and lesbian commitment ceremonies if they wish.*
The Union of American Hebrew Congregations (UAHC) is a somewhat smaller group within Reform Judaism. The UAHC represents 860 synagogues across the US. They has stated that "In accordance with the teaching of Reform Judaism that all human beings are created 'Betselem elohim' (in the divine image), Reform Judaism has strongly condemned discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation". They have "been in the vanguard of the support for the full recognition of equality for lesbians and gays in society." In 1993, they noted that "committed lesbian and gay couples are denied the benefits routinely accorded to married heterosexual couples"; they resolved that full legal equality for lesbians and gays requires legal recognition of their relationships.*


Reform Judaism


Central Conference of American Rabbis (CCAR):

Within the Reform movement, by far the largest association is the Central Conference of American Rabbis (CCAR). It is the largest group of rabbis in America. They have about 1,800 male and female members. These are rabbis serving at least 1.5 million Reform Jews.

The Conference has gradually taken a increasingly inclusive approach to homosexual matters:**

1977: The CCAR passed a brief resolution which was unusually liberal for the time: "WHEREAS, the Central Conference of American Rabbis has consistently supported civil rights and civil liberties for all people, especially for those from whom these rights and liberties have been withheld, and
WHEREAS, homosexuals have in our society long endured discrimination,
BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED, that we encourage legislation which decriminalizes homosexual acts between consenting adults, and prohibits discrimination against them as persons, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that our Reform Jewish religious organizations undertake programs in cooperation with the total Jewish community to implement the above stand." 1

1996-MAR: They passed a resolution stating: "BE IT RESOLVED, that the Central Conference of American Rabbis support the right of gay and lesbian couples to share fully and equally in the rights of civil marriage, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the CCAR oppose governmental efforts to ban gay and lesbian marriage.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that this is a matter of civil law, and is separate from the question of rabbinic officiation at such marriages." 3
Many Reform rabbis will perform b'rit ahavah (commitment of love) ceremonies for gays and lesbians.*


1998-JUN: The "Ad Hoc committee on Human Sexuality" issued their report. It is well worth reading for persons of all religious affiliations -- and none -- because it delves into all aspects of human sexuality from a spiritual perspective. Some points raised were: "Sexuality and sexual expression are integral and powerful elements in the potential wholeness of human beings."
"Authentic and ethical human relationships should be grounded in both truth and honesty."
"Both partners in an intimate relationship should strive to communicate lovingly."
"Reform Judaism encourages adults of all ages and physical and mental capabilities to develop expressions of their sexuality that are both responsible and joyful. The abuse of human sexuality can be destructive to our emotional, spiritual and physical health."
"The importance of family, whether biologically or relationally based, remains the foundation of meaningful human existence."
"For sexual expression in human relationships to reach the fullness of its potential, it should be grounded in fidelity and the intention of permanence....A sexual relationship is covenantal when it is stable and enduring and includes mutual esteem, trust, and faithfulness."
"In a Reform Jewish context, a relationship may attain a measure of kedusha (holiness) when both partners voluntarily set themselves apart exclusively for each other, thereby finding unique emotional, sexual and spiritual intimacy."
"...kiddushah (holiness) may be present in committed, same gender relationships between two Jews, and that these relationships can serve as the foundation of stable Jewish families, thus adding strength to the Jewish community. In this spirit, we believe that the relationship of a Jewish, same-gender couple is worthy of affirmation through appropriate Jewish ritual, and that each rabbi should decide about officiation according to his/her own informed rabbinic conscience." 3

2000-MAR: The CCAR overwhelmingly approved a resolution giving rabbis the option of presiding at gay and lesbian commitment ceremonies.*The resolution stated, in part: "WHEREAS justice and human dignity are cherished Jewish values, and
WHEREAS, in March of 1999 the Women’s Rabbinic Network passed a resolution urging the Central Conference of American Rabbis to bring the issue of honoring ceremonies between two Jews of the same gender to the floor of the convention plenum, and
WHEREAS, the institutions of Reform Judaism have a long history of support for civil and equal rights for gays and lesbians, and
WHEREAS, North American organizations of the Reform Movement have passed resolutions in support of civil marriage for gays and lesbians, therefore
WE DO HEREBY RESOLVE, that the relationship of a Jewish, same gender couple is worthy of affirmation through appropriate Jewish ritual, and
FURTHER RESOLVED, that we recognize the diversity of opinions within our ranks on this issue. We support the decision of those who choose to officiate at rituals of union for same-gender couples, and we support the decision of those who do not, and
FURTHER RESOLVED, that we call upon the CCAR to support all colleagues in their choices in this matter, and
FURTHER RESOLVED, that we also call upon the CCAR to develop both educational and liturgical resources in this area." 4
Some individuals commented on this decision: Rabbi Shira Stern heads the Women's Rabbinic Network. She said: "This is not a woman's issue, or a gay or lesbian issue. This is a human rights issue...For Jews who have no choice in the matter of sexual identity, we as leaders of the movement must provide them with the religious framework in which to celebrate their union."
Rabbi Charles Kroloff, president of CCAR's said that: "gay and lesbian Jews, and the committed relationships they form with their partners, deserve the recognition and respect due to people created in the image of God."
Rabbi Paul Menitoff, executive vice president of CCAR, said: "It is not sinful to be a gay and lesbian...It is sinful to have these [homophobic] prejudices and act out on them."
Maranatha Christian News Service, a conservative Christian group, commented that "Both Kroloff and Menitoff stressed the same-sex ceremonies weren't civil marriages recognized by law, but Kroloff said that some rabbis who have already been performing the ceremonies call them marriages. The Torah condemns male homosexual intercourse, but a decade ago Reform Judaism approved openly gay rabbis. Reform Judaism's rabbinate bases its position on contemporary understanding of homosexuality and the Jewish values of human dignity and justice."*


The Union of American Hebrew Congregations (UAHC):

1993: The Union of American Hebrew Congregations observed that "committed lesbian and gay couples are denied the benefits routinely accorded to married heterosexual couples." They resolved that full equality under the law for lesbian and gay people requires legal recognition of lesbian and gay relationships.
 
Melwood23 said:
Wasn't so much one person, just various 'christian' organizations. Just made me not want to attend a specific church. So its just trying to find the right place where I can feel free to worship, and not feel quilty, more for the gay part than the out of wedlock (that was in the early 60's when that was a no no anyways).

Don't even get me started on the TV evanglists(I am not good at spelling as you can tell :rotfl: ). Not saying all are bad, just the very vocal ones.

Anyways I just enjoy being able to to freely talk about my beliefs with out being condemned. I figure all the other stuff is between me and God.

I really want to go to Christmas Eve Mass this year, haven't been to one in a long time. Have good memories of the last one. :cloud9:
Well, you oughta check out some of those gay MCC churches.
How did I get in here? ;)
 
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

you are a gem Jenny :goodvibes

I lurk on the other threads but just does no good when you get in a no win debate. I don't want to debate, I just want to chat and learn and try to forget I am cold all day at work, least it is time to go home now! lol
 
All I have to say is this. I prefer to err on the side of God's law, rather than the popular opinions and decisions of man.

Take it as it is. That is where I stand.

Nothing can be said to change my conviction. So no need to flame me. :thumbsup2
 
scraptoons said:
All I have to say is this. I prefer to err on the side of God's law, rather than the popular opinions and decisions of man.

Take it as it is. That is where I stand.

Nothing can be said to change my conviction. So no need to flame me. :thumbsup2

No flames here, because I feel the same way. The only problem I seem to run into with others is that I don't feel it is essential that everyone else conform to my choice. I don't want to legislate it into a civil society. There are many things that are legal, but that doesn't mean my faith allows me to participate without sin. For example, pornography is legal, but my faith says it is sinful, so I block the X-rated channels on my satellite. That's my choice, but it's not everyone's. My faith has a profound influence on my choices, but I can accept that others do not have the same faith or belief without judging them negatively.

Jesus didn't say "Love one another if they believe the same as you do", He said "Love one another".
 
scraptoons said:
All I have to say is this. I prefer to err on the side of God's law, rather than the popular opinions and decisions of man.

Take it as it is. That is where I stand.

Nothing can be said to change my conviction. So no need to flame me. :thumbsup2

Would you want to have to conform to the laws of another religion? How about Orthodox Judiasm?
 
Uncle Remus said:
Well, you oughta check out some of those gay MCC churches.
How did I get in here? ;)


I have thought of that...just need to get past that Catholic thing... :rotfl:

and Remus...not so much how you got in here, but how you know about MCC :rotfl:
 
Fitswimmer said:
No flames here, because I feel the same way. The only problem I seem to run into with others is that I don't feel it is essential that everyone else conform to my choice. I don't want to legislate it into a civil society. There are many things that are legal, but that doesn't mean my faith allows me to participate without sin. For example, pornography is legal, but my faith says it is sinful, so I block the X-rated channels on my satellite. That's my choice, but it's not everyone's. My faith has a profound influence on my choices, but I can accept that others do not have the same faith or belief without judging them negatively.

Jesus didn't say "Love one another if they believe the same as you do", He said "Love one another".

I agree somewhat with you. It's hard to live with some of the legal decisions that we know are clearly spelled out as sins. Of course somebody will want to flame me on that one. haha.
I sin all the time. It's not sexual sins, but others, like losing my temper or gossiping or lying, "worshiping" food, the list goes on.
But am I going to say that it is OK to do those and I have a right to do those because it feels like my human nature? NO.
I honestly do not want to do those things because it is against the law of the Lord. I am not going to ignore those scriptures that address those sins because I don't like them.
Each day I pray to God and meditate on his word so that his spirit guides me away from those human tendencies. It works for me.

and others say: "goody for you" . Right. Goody for me. I'm just sharing my personal experiences, knowing that it doesn't work for anyone.
I also don't expect anyone to roll out the red carpet and treat me wonderful because this is who I am. If they want to persecute me for it. So be it.

People now a days believe when there is separation of church and state, laws have to be based on equal human rights, rather than the law of the Lord.
From what I understand, that wasn't really the intention of the original writers of the constitution.

Seems like the way it was worded has created a monster for our society to deal with today. There is so much hostility between the different groups.

The original intent of the founders of this nation was to base the law on the Lord's law. When you take the Word of God out, it brings it down to allowing sin to be legal.

Nobody wants to live in an environment that does not support their own beliefs and values. That's why I do not see a win win situation any time soon.
 
cardaway said:
Would you want to have to conform to the laws of another religion? How about Orthodox Judiasm?

I was intending the opposite. Let me find another way to phrase it.

If the laws of the land decide that being gay is legal, it still doesn't change my conviction of what God says is a sin.

There are people all over the world that do continue to worship and practice their own faith despite the laws of the land. I know of quite a few people right now that are dealing with this in other countries.

There is not really any win win situation in this. If gay marriage is legal, then conservatives are upset. If gay marriage is illegal, then gays are upset.
 
scraptoons said:
There is not really any win win situation in this. If gay marriage is legal, then conservatives are upset. If gay marriage is illegal, then gays are upset.

I believe we only need to come as close to a win/win as possible, and keeping gay marriage illegal goes in the opposite direction.

I'm glad you brought up porn because it is clearly a sin, clearly legal for adults, and clearly many people who believe in the same religion you do purchase porn.

Just like it doesn't make sense to outlaw porn just because it's a sin, so goes gay marriage.
 
scraptoons said:
I

People now a days believe when there is separation of church and state, laws have to be based on equal human rights, rather than the law of the Lord.
From what I understand, that wasn't really the intention of the original writers of the constitution.

Seems like the way it was worded has created a monster for our society to deal with today. There is so much hostility between the different groups.

The original intent of the founders of this nation was to base the law on the Lord's law. When you take the Word of God out, it brings it down to allowing sin to be legal.

.

I'm going to have to disagree with you..The foundiing father absolutely wanted to keep religion out of the government..Why?
Well look back at the founding of this country..You hear that this country was founded on religious freedom,but what exactly did that mean? Well the pilgrims came here to practice their religion freely, but that meant without the influence of other religions even Christian ones..They left Holland because they did not want their kids exposed to the Lutherans there..They wanted to come here and create a colony just for Puritans..Anyone disagreeing with their brand of Puritanism was cast out or killed..Mary Dyer,a quaker , was hanged on Boston Common..Anne Hutchinson and Roger Williams were banished,while within the Massachusets Bay colony you had the Salem Witch Hunts..Virginia,same thing..It was a Protestant colony and they banished and killed catholics..Most of the other colonies followed suit and became little theocracies for specific religions..
There were a couple of exceptions..Maryland was formed as a result of Virginia's treatment of Catholics. It was created as a Catholic colony but promised religious freedom, real religious freedoms to other faiths...Rhode Island was formed by Roger Williams, an outcast from Massachusets Bay colony..RI promised true religious freedom and was the site ofthe first Synagogue in the US Touro Synagogue in Newport..RI and Maryland allowed true religious freedom for it's time
The founding fathers new all of this and if you look at writings from the time they mention RI and Maryland as models for the new country they were founding..They recognized that governments like Massachusets and Virginia's were not the way to go..In fact ,the Maryland Toleration act is often seen as the precurser to the 1st amendment
 
Melwood23 said:
I am only on page 10 and this is the first thread to actually bring tears to my eyes.


Just wanted to say that though I was raised Catholic, and still consider myself one, I don't, or rarely go to church. Mainly because I don't believe that Catholics are any better than any other Christian church, and to say that non Catholics are welcome but can not participate in communion because only Catholics are allowed recieve the body and blood of Christ is just not right. But then I am weird. Plus also have other issues, one being the homosexual stance. But I also was always curious when going to school, especially after having to go to Catholic school, on other religions, just in general. Actually had one religion teacher try to do that, but was told nope, can't teach that :rolleyes: .

Yes I believe in Jesus. I believe he wanted us to learn to love all, to be tolerant of all, and to just be good people. I do try, and yes I fail miserably, and I am the first to admit that. But to be told unless I am all Jesus, and must live a good christian life, is kind of hard when, by some 'Christians' view, I was condemened to hell at time of conception. Being born out of wedlock and gay, boy I have 2 paths to hell.

Anyways it is nice to find some people discussing religion/no religion in a calm, peaceful manner, and being tolerant of others, no matter what their view is.

Isn't that what being Disney is all about :love:


Peace, Love and Toleance


I was also born out of wedlock so I'll keep you company in Hell ;)

Have you explored other Christian denominations?
 
JennyMominRI said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you..The foundiing father absolutely wanted to keep religion out of the government..Why?
Well look back at the founding of this country..You hear that this country was founded on religious freedom,but what exactly did that mean? Well the pilgrims came here to practice their religion freely, but that meant without the influence of other religions even Christian ones..They left Holland because they did not want their kids exposed to the Lutherans there..They wanted to come here and create a colony just for Puritans..Anyone disagreeing with their brand of Puritanism was cast out or killed..Mary Dyer,a quaker , was hanged on Boston Common..Anne Hutchenson and Roger Williams were banished,while within the Massachusets Bay colony you had the Salem Witch Hunts..Virginia,same thing..It was a protestant colony and they banished and killed catholics..Most of the other colonies followed suit and became little theocracies for specific religions..
There were a couple of exceptions..Maryland was formed as a result of Virginia's treatment of Catholics. It was createdas a Catholic colony but promised religios freedom,real religious freedoms to other Faiths...Rhode Island was formed by Roger Williams,outcasted from Massachusets Bay colony..RI promisedtrue religious freedom and was the site ofthe first Synagogue in the US Touro Synagogue in Newport..RI and Maryland allowed true religious freedom for it's time
The founding fathers new all of this and if you look at writings from the time they mention RI and Maryland as models for the new country they were founding..They recognized that governments like Massachusets and Virginia's were not the way to go..In fact ,the Maryland Toleration act is often seen as the precurser to the 1st amendment


good post.

Also like to add that the Founding Fathers were mostly Anglican (later Episcopalian) and they were nothing like the conservative evengelical Christians you hear and read about today.
 
cardaway said:
I believe we only need to come as close to a win/win as possible, and keeping gay marriage illegal goes in the opposite direction.

I'm glad you brought up porn because it is clearly a sin, clearly legal for adults, and clearly many people who believe in the same religion you do purchase porn.

Just like it doesn't make sense to outlaw porn just because it's a sin, so goes gay marriage.

That was my "a-ha!" moment with this issue and a few others. Legality does not mean that I'm forced to participate or that I have to teach my children that it's ok. I'm still free to consider porn a sin and to teach my kids (if I actually had any) that it's sinful and WHY it's sinful.

I also agree with Jenny on the founding fathers. If they had wanted to set up a national religion they would have. The intent was for religious freedom for all and forced religion for none.
 
cardaway said:
I believe we only need to come as close to a win/win as possible, and keeping gay marriage illegal goes in the opposite direction.

I'm glad you brought up porn because it is clearly a sin, clearly legal for adults, and clearly many people who believe in the same religion you do purchase porn.

Just like it doesn't make sense to outlaw porn just because it's a sin, so goes gay marriage.

People in any faith or lack of faith purchase porn.

Sin is universal.

I did say that I sin too. A sin is a sin is a sin. I am just as much a sinner as anyone else. We're all equally guilty.

And about my religion. What religion did you say I was? You'd be surprised.
 


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