Jessa Duggar (of the Duggar Family) is courting

[emilily88]

Okay y'all calm down... The oldest son, Josh, courted his wife and they are happily married with 3 children so it works for them. I would rather hear about a young couple courting than about celebrities who are on their 5th marriage personally. Hugs all around!

 

[dakcp2001]

Same thing. Judging is judging. These threads are allowed to continue because for some odd reason, they do not offend the majority of the DIS boards readers, or the owners. Those who ARE judging them are basing it on what they see on TV and read in questionable new sources. Either way. Why does it matter so much? I applaud their choice of morals, lifestyle and most everything else. I truly don't judge anyone. To each his own. Really, but don't tell me judging someone like the Duggars is any different than judging a lifestyle choice made by anyone, on any side of any issue.\

And now you will tell me again that judging someone's sexuality is not a choice? Race, of course not, that's plain silly, and poor wording on my part, however, it still stands that if someone starts a thread talking\judging someone on race, sexuality or anything that you happen to consider NOT a choice, it's NOT OK, but judging someone like the Duggards for the lifestyle they choose IS OK? Right, yeah, thought so.

Boards are loaded far too many hypocrites and those that seem to thrive on putting others down for cetain "choices". Nice, real nice for supposed Disney oriented family set of message boards.

I am finding irony in your Dr Seuss quote.

 

[disykat]

I used the word "any different" and you used the word "that different."

I think there is THAT big of a difference in a father controlling everything about his daughter's dating life and a father who "gives away" the bride. Degree is always a matter of opinion. Message boards are generally set up to discuss those opinions.

Exactly. Since you and I seem to agree on that, why the nastiness about my opinion?

You indicated that my opinion that there isn't "that big" of a difference meant that I didn't see "any difference." I have the right to clarify that wasn't what I said.

 

[dakcp2001]

I find the side hug odd. I also feel like it should be mentioned that with the other sister, to be a licensed midwife you need to be a licensed in most states. I am curious about the academic portion, and if she is attending an accredited school. So whether or not she will be a " real " midwife or just call herself one remains to be seen.

 

[cfriend416]

I find the side hug odd. I also feel like it should be mentioned that with the other sister, to be a licensed midwife you need to be a licensed in most states. I am curious about the academic portion, and if she is attending an accredited school. So whether or not she will be a " real " midwife or just call herself one remains to be seen.

She will be licensed. She is in an apprenticeship program to be a lay midwife. It's not the same thing as a nurse midwife, but it is a midwife all the same. Look it up if you're interested. She needs a license to even be studying under a licensed midwife, and she has one.

ETA: Info on lay midwifery in Arkansas: http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx Jill Duggar's name is on the list of apprentices.

 

[DawnM]

Why would it be a secret? It is all over the internet and they announced it on their show.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised in the views held by a very conservative Christian man.

Dawn

OMGoodness.!

I wasn't aware who Josh was working for - and I'm sure I wasn't meant to be aware! Thank you for the link!

You know, with that many kids in the Duggar family, I wouldn't wonder if at least one of them was born gay. . .

 

[LisaR]

Exactly. Since you and I seem to agree on that, why the nastiness about my opinion?

You indicated that my opinion that there isn't "that big" of a difference meant that I didn't see "any difference." I have the right to clarify that wasn't what I said.

Sorry you saw it as "nastiness." You are the one who started with the eye roll. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. We definitely disagree that a father reading and approving every single text a 20 y/o sends is the same as a soon to be son-in-law asking a father for his DD's hand in marriage. No big deal that we disagree. I also don't see the nastiness that you seem to see. Obviously we aren't meant to agree on much tonight!

 

[disykat]

Sorry you saw it as "nastiness." You are the one who started with the eye roll. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. We definitely disagree that a father reading and approving every single text a 20 y/o sends is the same as a soon to be son-in-law asking a father for his DD's hand in marriage. No big deal that we disagree. I also don't see the nastiness that you seem to see. Obviously we aren't meant to agree on much tonight!

Argh. Seriously? I did not say they were the same. I said I don't see it as "that different" indicating a definite level of degree of difference, but some similarity in whole father being involved thing. You keep insisting that I am saying something I didn't say.

 

[dakcp2001]

She will be licensed. She is in an apprenticeship program to be a lay midwife. It's not the same thing as a nurse midwife, but it is a midwife all the same. Look it up if you're interested. She needs a license to even be studying under a licensed midwife, and she has one.

ETA: Info on lay midwifery in Arkansas: http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx Jill Duggar's name is on the list of apprentices.

Yikes, upon further investigation there are still states that allow this. You do not even need a high school degree to take this exam. and there is no curriculum. Here is some further info if anyone is interested. This is something I need to do more research on and I plan to read up on it a bit.

http://www.obgmanagement.com/index.php?id=20667&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=176868

The part that stood out to me was:

of the nation’s 1,400 CPMs in practice today meet the educational and training standards accepted by ACOG and the ACNM. The educational background of CPMs—known in some states as direct entry or lay midwives—varies widely across the nation. Unlike CNMs, CPMs are not required to have a nursing background. They practice primarily in out-of-hospital settings, including birthing centers and private homes. Many CPMs have no formal academic education or medical training, and their training requirements fall short of internationally established standards for midwives and traditional birth attendants.
Other relevant points:
A person without a high school degree could be licensed as a CPM if he or she passed the certifying exam, observed 20 deliveries, and participated as the primary attendant in 10
As a group, CPMs have not adopted home-birth patient-selection criteria that are based on generally accepted medical evidence or public safety
The curriculum, clinical skills training, and experience of CPMs have not been approved by the American Midwifery Certification Board. Nor are they reviewed by the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology or the American Board of Family Medicine—recognized authorities in the certification of knowledge and skills associated with the practice of obstetrics.
The North American Registry of Midwives’ Portfolio Evaluation Process requires midwives to be the primary care provider during 50 home births and to have 3 years’ experience. The average ObGyn resident gets this much experience in 1 month."

 

[CPT Tripss]

Yikes, upon further investigation there are still states that allow this. You do not even need a high school degree to take this exam. and there is no curriculum. Here is some further info if anyone is interested. This is something I need to do more research on and I plan to read up on it a bit.

http://www.obgmanagement.com/index.php?id=20667&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=176868

The part that stood out to me was:

of the nation’s 1,400 CPMs in practice today meet the educational and training standards accepted by ACOG and the ACNM. The educational background of CPMs—known in some states as direct entry or lay midwives—varies widely across the nation. Unlike CNMs, CPMs are not required to have a nursing background. They practice primarily in out-of-hospital settings, including birthing centers and private homes. Many CPMs have no formal academic education or medical training, and their training requirements fall short of internationally established standards for midwives and traditional birth attendants.
Other relevant points:
A person without a high school degree could be licensed as a CPM if he or she passed the certifying exam, observed 20 deliveries, and participated as the primary attendant in 10
As a group, CPMs have not adopted home-birth patient-selection criteria that are based on generally accepted medical evidence or public safety
The curriculum, clinical skills training, and experience of CPMs have not been approved by the American Midwifery Certification Board. Nor are they reviewed by the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology or the American Board of Family Medicine—recognized authorities in the certification of knowledge and skills associated with the practice of obstetrics.
The North American Registry of Midwives’ Portfolio Evaluation Process requires midwives to be the primary care provider during 50 home births and to have 3 years’ experience. The average ObGyn resident gets this much experience in 1 month."

And our tax dollars are paying for some of these services.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

About 4 years ago now they switched to the Switched on Schoolhouse curriculum.

That is pretty mainstream as far as academics go.

ETA: I went to their blog. Looks like they actually use a variety of things now, including things that many HSers use. http://duggarsblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/duggars-on-homeschool-curricula.html

I picked one of their suggestions at Random, College Plus and went there. On the linked page.

“I recommend CollegePlus to anyone who is fed up with the status quo. I believe in the program so much that I enrolled my own daughter and son. We've got to stop making the pagans in the college system rich while they make us dumb.”

"CollegePlus has changed how we do higher education in America. This is bad news for radical professors and warped social engineers, but good news for families."

This is what they're putting on their front page to sell it. That doesn't seem all that mainstream to me.

 

[Hrhpd]

Same thing. Judging is judging. These threads are allowed to continue because for some odd reason, they do not offend the majority of the DIS boards readers, or the owners. Those who ARE judging them are basing it on what they see on TV and read in questionable new sources. Either way. Why does it matter so much? I applaud their choice of morals, lifestyle and most everything else. I truly don't judge anyone. To each his own. Really, but don't tell me judging someone like the Duggars is any different than judging a lifestyle choice made by anyone, on any side of any issue.\

And now you will tell me again that judging someone's sexuality is not a choice? Race, of course not, that's plain silly, and poor wording on my part, however, it still stands that if someone starts a thread talking\judging someone on race, sexuality or anything that you happen to consider NOT a choice, it's NOT OK, but judging someone like the Duggards for the lifestyle they choose IS OK? Right, yeah, thought so.

Boards are loaded far too many hypocrites and those that seem to thrive on putting others down for cetain "choices". Nice, real nice for supposed Disney oriented family set of message boards.

Seems as if Josh Duggar is doing quite a bit of judging in his new job.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[JaneBanks]

Sure, the kids are well mannered and all of that and that's all good and dandy. I just don't like what I read about the teachings they follow, especially on how they are taught to discipline the children.

I forget the name of the practice, but I read that they follow a method of training a baby. They put the baby on a blanket with out any stimulation. When the baby crawls off of the blanket, they swat the baby and put the baby back to the center. They do this over and over again until the baby knows not to move.

No wonder they are so well mannered.

 

[Hrhpd]

Too bad the show won't be delving into Josh's lifestyle away from the show.

Anybody surprised that the Duggar children were indoctrinated to grow up to be intolerant, judgemental ****** (word would not be family friendly)?

That Josh would go work for one of the worst hate organizations was pretty much his destiny.

 

[Hrhpd]

Sure, the kids are well mannered and all of that and that's all good and dandy. I just don't like what I read about the teachings they follow, especially on how they are taught to discipline the children.

I forget the name of the practice, but I read that they follow a method of training a baby. They put the baby on a blanket with out any stimulation. When the baby crawls off of the blanket, they swat the baby and put the baby back to the center. They do this over and over again until the baby knows not to move.

No wonder they are so well mannered.

That would be 'blanket training.'

They put a baby on a blanket and whip it when the baby goes off the blanket. After enough switches, the baby learns not to leave the blanket. Not only does it teach the child to submit at a very young age, it also is the start of curbing any natural curiosity a child may have.

If this were done to a puppy, it would be considered animal abuse.

The children are all happy smiles because they are beat into submission. The Duggars follow the Pearl's "train up a child" discipline method. The method calls for absolute obedience. Even a bad attitude is considered disobedience. The method suggests beginning to spank your children at around six months, and to spank a disobedient child until that child submits completely. Complete submission to the parent’s will is the hallmark of the method.

Here is a quote from the Train Up A Child Book:
If you are just beginning to institute training on an already rebellious child, who runs from discipline and is too incoherent to listen, then use whatever force is necessary to bring him to bay. If you have to sit on him to spank him then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring and are unmoved by his wailing. Defeat him totally. Accept no conditions for surrender. No compromise. You are to rule over him as a benevolent sovereign. Your word is final. (To Train Up A Child, page 49)

The Duggars are huge fans of Bill Gothard. When their children show signs of rebellion, they have been sent to Bill Gothard's re-education camps, which have been exposed for physical and emotional abuse. Josh was sent there and so were some of the girls. They all returned much subdued.

Following Gothard and Pearl's doctrines, children are to be taught that happy is the only acceptable emotion. Any other emotion is a personal offense to the parents. The discipline doctrines counsel to beat the child longer and harder until they are cheerful. So, they learn at a very early age to always look happy, otherwise they are in for a good beating. As they get older and more indoctrinated, they truly believe that anything but being happy is a sin.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that if people don't want to be judged than they shouldn't be in a reality show for all the world to see. I firmly believe in privacy and applauding people's lifestyle choices whatever they may be, however when they choose to be in the public eye they can expect to be judged for what they share with the public.

 

[DawnM]

College Plus is a viable program.

It is unfortunate that they are quoting these particular people as it may rub many the wrong way, but it is a decent program.

Maybe "mainstream" is the wrong word in this context. Homeschooling itself is not really mainstream at all when you think about it, but the curricula I mentioned and CollegePlus are mainstream within the homeschool community and they do follow the general guidelines set by most educational experts.

The comment was made that they use ATI, which is Bill Gothard. I would agree that ATI is not mainstream by any community other than, well, ATI followers.

I picked one of their suggestions at Random, College Plus and went there. On the linked page.





This is what they're putting on their front page to sell it. That doesn't seem all that mainstream to me.

 

[DawnM]

I think we all make judgements. We all feel/believe/follow a certain set of morals and values, even if we think others are wrong for their morals and values (or what we perceive as the lack thereof! )

This is a general public message board. We all come from different world views, just take it as it is, differences of opinion.

It is no skin off my back if someone doesn't like the Duggars or thinks they are over the top with their conservative values, heck, isn't that why they are on TV? If a TV crew came to my house, they would leave very quickly, we are far too boring.

If people don't want to watch, they shouldn't. I have reality TV I can't watch (well, we don't have cable anyway, but you know what I mean.) The Kardashians come to mind as to John and Kate Plus 8 (or whatever it is called now!) They grate on my nerves, so I don't bother watching and getting worked up over it. Is that a JUDGEMENT? You bet your buckaroos it is, and I don't apologize for it, it is my opinion and judgement. You may disagree. So be it.

However, if you aren't attacking the Duggars but are attacking ALL Christians or ALL homeschoolers or ALL whatever, I have an issue with that.

Dawn

Same thing. Judging is judging. These threads are allowed to continue because for some odd reason, they do not offend the majority of the DIS boards readers, or the owners. Those who ARE judging them are basing it on what they see on TV and read in questionable new sources. Either way. Why does it matter so much? I applaud their choice of morals, lifestyle and most everything else. I truly don't judge anyone. To each his own. Really, but don't tell me judging someone like the Duggars is any different than judging a lifestyle choice made by anyone, on any side of any issue.\

And now you will tell me again that judging someone's sexuality is not a choice? Race, of course not, that's plain silly, and poor wording on my part, however, it still stands that if someone starts a thread talking\judging someone on race, sexuality or anything that you happen to consider NOT a choice, it's NOT OK, but judging someone like the Duggards for the lifestyle they choose IS OK? Right, yeah, thought so.

Boards are loaded far too many hypocrites and those that seem to thrive on putting others down for cetain "choices". Nice, real nice for supposed Disney oriented family set of message boards.

 

[cfriend416]

Yikes, upon further investigation there are still states that allow this. You do not even need a high school degree to take this exam. and there is no curriculum. Here is some further info if anyone is interested. This is something I need to do more research on and I plan to read up on it a bit.

http://www.obgmanagement.com/index.php?id=20667&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=176868

The part that stood out to me was:

of the nation’s 1,400 CPMs in practice today meet the educational and training standards accepted by ACOG and the ACNM. The educational background of CPMs—known in some states as direct entry or lay midwives—varies widely across the nation. Unlike CNMs, CPMs are not required to have a nursing background. They practice primarily in out-of-hospital settings, including birthing centers and private homes. Many CPMs have no formal academic education or medical training, and their training requirements fall short of internationally established standards for midwives and traditional birth attendants.
Other relevant points:
A person without a high school degree could be licensed as a CPM if he or she passed the certifying exam, observed 20 deliveries, and participated as the primary attendant in 10
As a group, CPMs have not adopted home-birth patient-selection criteria that are based on generally accepted medical evidence or public safety
The curriculum, clinical skills training, and experience of CPMs have not been approved by the American Midwifery Certification Board. Nor are they reviewed by the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology or the American Board of Family Medicine—recognized authorities in the certification of knowledge and skills associated with the practice of obstetrics.
The North American Registry of Midwives’ Portfolio Evaluation Process requires midwives to be the primary care provider during 50 home births and to have 3 years’ experience. The average ObGyn resident gets this much experience in 1 month."

Huh. Well, for thousands of years, midwives did very well without the formal medical training required for nurse midwives. Is that the standard of care I'd want for myself? No. But for people who do want that kind of care, all the power to them, as long as they are making an informed decision. For what it's worth, they have shown a lot of Jill's training program on the show, and it seems pretty rigorous. She isn't just watching births, she's studying books and such as well. Also, the midwives she works with only handle low risk pregnancies and call 911 at the first sign of trouble. Are all lay midwives this way? Likely not, but I don't think the ones Jill works with would agree to be featured on the show if they weren't up to par.

 

[Granny square]

Define "care". I see it as a discussion and expressing of opinions. You know, like on a 'discussion' board. Do others' opinions about how the Duggars raise their children impact your life?

Lol, no kidding. I talk about lots of things that don't directly impact my life.