It Looks Like the Death Numbers are Being Inflated

[SamFaniam]

“There are other nations that if you had a pre-current issue, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem,” she said all through a Tuesday news briefing at the White Dwelling. “Some countries are recording that as a coronary heart difficulty or a kidney challenge and not a COVID-19 dying.

“The intent is … if somebody dies with COVID-19 we are counting that,” she included.”

She is very clear about what she means by this. When people have been hospitalized with COVID-19 and have some other underlying conditions, COVID-19 is the acute cause of their death. Their heart disease, kidney disease, cancer etc. may be the long-term cause, but the acute, immediate cause of their death is COVid-19. That’s why those are being counted.

 

[Searc]

“The federal governing administration is classifying the deaths of sufferers infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 fatalities, no matter of any underlying wellbeing concerns that could have contributed to the loss of someone’s life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White Residence coronavirus task power, claimed the federal governing administration is continuing to rely the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations executing the reverse.

“There are other nations that if you had a pre-current issue, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem,” she said all through a Tuesday news briefing at the White Dwelling. “Some countries are recording that as a coronary heart difficulty or a kidney challenge and not a COVID-19 dying.

“The intent is … if somebody dies with COVID-19 we are counting that,” she included.”

https://abc14news.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-patient-deaths-as-covid-19-deaths/

LOL Reread what you quoted and tell me if that in any way sounds like a credible source.

 

[halfpintpeggy]

I haven’t read this entire thread, but am not dismissing what the OP said. There are states that actually receive more federal aid for every COVID death. You can look it up. If there’s 1 thing I know, there are some who will always milk the system...

 

[Lehuaann]

“The federal governing administration is classifying the deaths of sufferers infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 fatalities, no matter of any underlying wellbeing concerns that could have contributed to the loss of someone’s life.

The federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite.

"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem," she said during a Tuesday news briefing at the White House. "Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.

"The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that," she added.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...avirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause

LOL Reread what you quoted and tell me if that in any way sounds like a credible source.

There, fixed it. No more White Dwelling stuff. Credible source

 

[Searc]

There, fixed it. No more White Dwelling stuff. Credible source

Not hardly. A non-English speaker obviously wrote it, if you read it.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I haven’t read this entire thread, but am not dismissing what the OP said. There are states that actually receive more federal aid for every COVID death. You can look it up. If there’s 1 thing I know, there are some who will always milk the system...

 

[Delite]

Why is it hard to not connect known fraud on Medicare. The article of old folks home with piled dead. What day does the government checks roll in. Why did the home think they could hide so many? Because no visitor rules. Healthcare is a mess in multiple ways right now. If you give any bonus dollar amount to dead of covid. Your going to see fraud.

 

[indimom]

It wouldn’t surprise me if the amount of $$$$ each state will receive in assistance from the Federal government (FEMA & other avenues) might likely be tied to the number of COVID-19 related hospitalizations and deaths. You don’t need to look any further than that — follow the money.

So, you are saying that doctors are lying on death certificates, so that the state can receive more money? Because doctors sign death certificates. Guess they're all willing to lie, in order for the state to gain revenue.... which they will see no part of? I'm impressed. How did they get all these doctors on board with a lie that will net them nothing but risk to their career?

Wouldn't those be the same amount regardless of what the ailment is? Why does a cause of death matter one bit on what a hospital charges?

It doesn't.

There was a Facebook post going around that stated hospitals were receiving 13k for a positive test and 39k for those on a ventilator. IT was based on an interview on a news. What the post failed to mention is that this is this was supposedly for Medicare patients. Not every person who has covid is on Medicare. Also, different hospital systems charge different prices for the care. Frankly, a charge for only 13k or 39k is pretty low for the care they are requiring. I do not believe for one moment that a hospital would choose to put someone on a vent for a mere 39k from Medicare. Heck, my bill for my ankle surgery was 19k and I was out of the hospital 7 hours after I entered.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

She is very clear about what she means by this. When people have been hospitalized with COVID-19 and have some other underlying conditions, COVID-19 is the acute cause of their death. Their heart disease, kidney disease, cancer etc. may be the long-term cause, but the acute, immediate cause of their death is COVid-19. That’s why those are being counted.

Exactly. Because it relates. You can have more than one "cause" of death. I'm a hospice nurse. When one of my patients (who had cancer) became septic and passed, the doctor put both on the death certificate. Because both diagnosis played a part.

I haven’t read this entire thread, but am not dismissing what the OP said. There are states that actually receive more federal aid for every COVID death. You can look it up. If there’s 1 thing I know, there are some who will always milk the system...

So, again, what you are saying is that doctors are lying and putting covid 19 down as a diagnosis for people who do not have it, in order for their state to receive more money? So, all those doctors, who could lose their career for fraud, are willing to lie and say the guy who was shot actually had covid so that someone else in a government office can line their pockets?
Sorry this makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[indimom]

Plenty of reasons. Financial incentives exist to admit a Covid case to the hospital. Even more financial incentive for a hospital to put the person on a ventilator. I'm not saying this is swaying a doctor's decision on treatment. What I am saying is there is a reason for bean counters to manipulate past death records to now say they were Covid related. Likely? Maybe, maybe not. Possible? Absolutely.

13k for a Covid hospital admission.
39k for a Covid patient going on a ventlator
I think those amounts answer the question of for what reason some past deaths are being re-categorized as Covid probables.

You clearly said in your first post "FINANCIAL INCENTIVES EXIST TO ADMIT A COVID CASE TO THE HOSPITAL. EVEN MORE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR A HOSPITAL TO PUT A PERSON ON A VENTILATOR." Sorry, that fully implies that the hospitals are lying from the outset, admitting people who do not have Covid or who do not require hospitalization, and further that they are putting people on a ventilator who do not need one.
If that's not what you meant, you should be a little more careful of your wording.

Assuming it was just poor wording and you were really talking about re-classifying cases as covid later....

Again I ask, who are the "bean counters" who you say are manipulating the numbers? Because they cannot do that without doctors who are willing to risk their entire career to lie about cause of death... for what I assume would be a small portion of that financial incentive??

 

[monsterkitty]

You clearly said in your first post "FINANCIAL INCENTIVES EXIST TO ADMIT A COVID CASE TO THE HOSPITAL. EVEN MORE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR A HOSPITAL TO PUT A PERSON ON A VENTILATOR." Sorry, that fully implies that the hospitals are lying from the outset, admitting people who do not have Covid or who do not require hospitalization, and further that they are putting people on a ventilator who do not need one.
If that's not what you meant, you should be a little more careful of your wording.

Assuming it was just poor wording and you were really talking about re-classifying cases as covid later....

Again I ask, who are the "bean counters" who you say are manipulating the numbers? Because they cannot do that without doctors who are willing to risk their entire career to lie about cause of death... for what I assume would be a small portion of that financial incentive??

It costs so much money for a hospital to treat a Covid patient plus the strain and stress it puts on all of the hospital employees. I just don't understand how people think hospitals are admitting patients for financial gain.

 

[Lehuaann]

Not hardly. A non-English speaker obviously wrote it, if you read it.

 

[mjkacmom]

It costs so much money for a hospital to treat a Covid patient plus the strain and stress it puts on all of the hospital employees. I just don't understand how people think hospitals are admitting patients for financial gain.

Healthcare workers want nothing more than to be able to discharge patients, every contact risks their lives.

 

[Jrb1979]

It costs so much money for a hospital to treat a Covid patient plus the strain and stress it puts on all of the hospital employees. I just don't understand how people think hospitals are admitting patients for financial gain.

Any way they can downplay this virus they will. I'm still amazed with how many think this is nothing cause 98% survive.

 

[penn19]

We do not have a lot of deaths in our county but I know of 2, that in the paper they said that their deaths were NOT related to Covid but they were included in the death toll. These 2 were both over 80

 

[rkstocke5609]

Any way they can downplay this virus they will. I'm still amazed with how many think this is nothing cause 98% survive.

Fake News. This implies a 2% mortality rate which is an unknown. Way more people have had this and never knew it. As a result, we will never know the mortality in percentage. We will only know a death toll number, that is all.

 

[Jrb1979]

Fake News. This implies a 2% mortality rate which is an unknown. Way more people have had this and never knew it. As a result, we will never know the mortality in percentage. We will only know a death toll number, that is all.

We may never know but what I do know is how serious this is. Try living each day feeling like you are drowning cause you struggle breathing. Its not all about the deaths

 

[rkstocke5609]

We may never know but what I do know is how serious this is. Try living each day feeling like you are drowning cause you struggle breathing. Its not all about the deaths

And I don’t dispute the seriousness. But I do dispute amplification of fear with bogus numbers.

 

[cabanafrau]

Seems quite strange to me that thousands upon thousands of death certificates are suddenly alleged to be stating cause of death to be covid, when the routine business of listing cause of death on death certificates (at least in MI where I believe OP lives as well) generally lists things like cardiac arrest, respiratory failure, organ failure, multiple organ failure. The triggering event that led to those results may be hypertension, diabetes, cancerr, etc. , but what's actually listed on the death certificate is not the name of the disease itself, but rather the particular organ or system of the body which failed and directly resulted in someone's death.

If you asked me how my father died I would tell you cancer, which is absolutely truthful. If you reviewed his death certificate you would see multiple organ failure and cancer appears nowhere on the document, despite being the disease that triggered the cascading failure of all the major organs in his body that led to his death.

From the skim I did of this thread it seems like there's way too much conflation of medical billing codes and insurance payments with cause of death. In the ordinary course of business under normal business conditions in SE Michigan it takes about six weeks for death certificates to be issued. Clearly it's been a minute since even government entities here have been operating under normal business conditions. The same pandemic that is causing even governmental entities to operate short staffed on a clerical and administrative level is also causing a significant uptick in the volume of death certificates that must be issued. Morgues and funeral homes are so backlogged that we've even had some hospitals scrambling for any physical space in which to hold the bodies of those who've passed.

No, I'm not buying the idea that death certificates are just being cranked out, en masse, in record time and listing covid as the cause by default.

 

[Jrb1979]

And I don’t dispute the seriousness. But I do dispute amplification of fear with bogus numbers.

Part of me think the amplification of fear is that for some its the only people will get it. Just on this board there is a lot that downplay this virus and believe it be no big deal.

 

[rkstocke5609]

Part of me think the amplification of fear is that for some its the only people will get it. Just on this board there is a lot that downplay this virus and believe it be no big deal.

Well, I would try to reign that “part” of you in a bit. There are plenty of ways to amplify fear without bogus numbers. You run the risk of being deemed irrelevant, just like CNN has become.