It Finally Happened - They Flaked!

[Disney Spaz]

Our DD and her DFi were scheduled to come with us once and they dropped out because DFi's cousin, about 6 months out, announced she was getting married the weekend before our trip and while it didn't affect the finances or the weekend we were scheduled to go, DFi's parents paid for their trip to Dfi's cousins wedding and his family decided to make it a week long family trip. DH and I were understanding as a wedding is important but it also stung for us as we are family too and it was scheduled to be our first family trip with DFi too. We had just enough time to move stuff around and save the points but after that DH said they can join us at any time but not on our points. Now we are hoping after the wedding this summer they will both join us for our annual Xmas weekend this December. I am optimistic but the rest of the family thinks it is unlikely. DD has always come and stayed in our room but once married they will want their own room so the family trips at Xmas including her may be over.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I think there is a vast difference between getting sick at the last minute (especially in the Covid years) and not being able to go and backing out after months of planning.

Of course.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Oh, I am so sorry. I purchased DVC more for family and friends than for myself (as many of us did). Many of them do not realize that sometimes you have to plan 2 years out in order to arrange a trip (if it involves banking and borrowing points) and it's not just labor you have invested, but a lot of $$, and sometimes a lot of emotion too (maybe you gave up a trip you were going to take so you can save those points. You were planning on ADR's and invested in activities with Nieces and Nephews you have not seen in years).

The cavalier attitude some of them take to just break a reservation with all that planning, $$, emotions, etc all wrapped up in it can be devastating.

I am so sorry. <hugs>

 

[robinb]

For those of you who think that @RoseGold 's friends didn't "flake", take it from a 20+ year DVC member ... they DEFINATELY flaked.

In doing so they put the OP in the following bad positions:

1. RoseGold now needs to scramble to book a smaller villa. Covid and the closing of resorts caused a glut of points from 2020 that is still working its way through the DVC system. Availability is tight, especially for studios.
2. Because availability is tight, RoseGold may not be able to book at the same resort where she booked the 2BR months and months ago. She planned and paid for that resort and now she may have to pivot to a resort that may not be as desirable for her.
3. RoseGold booked the 2BR with some points that were banked from last year. Those points EXPIRE at the end of her use year (the month that she gets her annual points allocation) and she is now in a "use it or lose it" situation.
4. Her points from the current use year may ALSO be in a "use it or lose it" situation. DVC members are allowed to bank points forward, but only up to 8 months into their use year. For instance, my use year is August (when I get my annual point allocation) and the last date I could bank points forward to be used between August 2022 and September 2023 was March 31st. I have a vacation planned in May and if it goes sideways I am stuck with 145 points that need to be used by the end of September or I will lose them.
5. She spent "hundreds of points" on a villa that would hold them. Let me quantify that for you. If she spent 200 points, that's at least $1500 in dues. Another valuation of points is what you can get to rent them and a rental of 200 points at David's would make her $2900.
6. Even if RoseGold is able to book something smaller with her banked "use them of lose them" points and bank forward her extra points it's STILL a ginormous PITB for her and a disappointment that she is not longer going with friends.

People who don't understand how the process works don't think it's a big deal when it is.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For those of you who think that @RoseGold 's friends didn't "flake", take it from a 20+ year DVC member ... they DEFINATELY flaked.

In doing so they put the OP in the following bad positions:

1. RoseGold now needs to scramble to book a smaller villa. Covid and the closing of resorts caused a glut of points from 2020 that is still working its way through the DVC system. Availability is tight, especially for studios.
2. Because availability is tight, RoseGold may not be able to book at the same resort where she booked the 2BR months and months ago. She planned and paid for that resort and now she may have to pivot to a resort that may not be as desirable for her.
3. RoseGold booked the 2BR with some points that were banked from last year. Those points EXPIRE at the end of her use year (the month that she gets her annual points allocation) and she is now in a "use it or lose it" situation.
4. Her points from the current use year may ALSO be in a "use it or lose it" situation. DVC members are allowed to bank points forward, but only up to 8 months into their use year. For instance, my use year is August (when I get my annual point allocation) and the last date I could bank points forward to be used between August 2022 and September 2023 was March 31st. I have a vacation planned in May and if it goes sideways I am stuck with 145 points that need to be used by the end of September or I will lose them.
5. She spent "hundreds of points" on a villa that would hold them. Let me quantify that for you. If she spent 200 points, that's at least $1500 in dues. Another valuation of points is what you can get to rent them and a rental of 200 points at David's would make her $2900.
6. Even if RoseGold is able to book something smaller with her banked "use them of lose them" points and bank forward her extra points it's STILL a ginormous PITB for her and a disappointment that she is not longer going with friends.

People who don't understand how the process works don't think it's a big deal when it is.

Flakes are by definition unreliable individuals. A person who found themselves unable to afford 1 time does not constitute flaking out. It doesn't take being a DVC holder to see it differently. All of us agree it put the OP in a really bad spot, it was something the other people should have realistically told them earlier on but it wasn't a case where they said they would join and then just up and decided last minute eh never mind.

OP can of course feel they flaked out on, but other can also feel like what happened wasn't the others flaking out with the reasons given. I would totally feel the people were flaky if every time the OP invited them places (or had invited them before) and every time they are just up and deciding to back out because that does mean they are an unreliable bunch and generally people don't get invited when they are known to be flakes.

IDK maybe it's not really something that we should be debating, I think for me I just felt like if someone told me friends of theirs flaked out I would assume it was them backing out for some trivial reason or that their behavior always is to back out, but when it was said that they couldn't afford the tickets and airfare well that totally changed how I saw the situation. The others should have told sooner, that's considerate, but it didn't make them unreliable or that their reasons were trivial. I guess for me it changed how I viewed my impression of the other party, doesn't mean it changed how I sympathized with the OP's predicament of having excess points hoping to have used them with friends and/or family and now feeling like that's not worth it.

 

[robinb]

Flakes are by definition unreliable individuals. A person who found themselves unable to afford 1 time does not constitute flaking out. It doesn't take being a DVC holder to see it differently. All of us agree it put the OP in a really bad spot, it was something the other people should have realistically told them earlier on but it wasn't a case where they said they would join and then just up and decided last minute eh never mind.

OP can of course feel they flaked out on, but other can also feel like what happened wasn't the others flaking out with the reasons given. I would totally feel the people were flaky if every time the OP invited them places (or had invited them before) and every time they are just up and deciding to back out because that does mean they are an unreliable bunch and generally people don't get invited when they are known to be flakes.

IDK maybe it's not really something that we should be debating, I think for me I just felt like if someone told me friends of theirs flaked out I would assume it was them backing out for some trivial reason or that their behavior always is to back out, but when it was said that they couldn't afford the tickets and airfare well that totally changed how I saw the situation. The others should have told sooner, that's considerate, but it didn't make them unreliable or that their reasons were trivial. I guess for me it changed how I viewed my impression of the other party, doesn't mean it changed how I sympathized with the OP's predicament of having excess points hoping to have used them with friends and/or family and now feeling like that's not worth it.

@RoseGold told them how much passes were going to cost upfront. The selected dates together upfront. RoseGold told them to buy airfare upfront. They agreed to all of that UPFRONT.

Then, they decided MONTHS LATER that it was going to cost them too much and left RoseGold holding the bag.

In fact, I think "flake" is really too kind of a description.

 

[RoseGold]

Flakes are by definition unreliable individuals.

LOL. I can call them reliably disrespectful last-minute cancelers instead of flakes, if that sounds better?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

@RoseGold told them how much passes were going to cost upfront. The selected dates together upfront. RoseGold told them to buy airfare upfront. They agreed to all of that UPFRONT.

Then, they decided MONTHS LATER that it was going to cost them too much and left RoseGold holding the bag.

In fact, I think "flake" is really too kind of a description.

I asked for clarification on the costs part and it wasn't answered yet at least.

I couldn't find a comment that the OP told them to buy the airfare immediately (they may have IRL but I couldn't find a comment that said they did). I did ask if the OP purchased the tickets and airfare for them then told them the cost because the OP said they agreed to the costs but we know those costs change.

We all know how travel goes, you decide to purchase airfare and suddenly within an hour it's a lot more expensive. How can someone agree to a cost if the cost changes at a moment's notice?

We don't know if they just decided or if things came up. It's really hard to judge someone else's financials sometimes.

At the end of the day none of us disagreed it was a good situation for the OP to be in, but why does that mean everyone has to have the worst opinions of the other party involved either? It doesn't have to be that way either.

LOL. I can call them reliably disrespectful last-minute cancelers instead of flakes, if that sounds better?

Does to me lol. I agreed with them being inconsiderate and they did last minute cancel, but their reason was understandable. People can be disrespectful, inconsiderate and still have an understandable or valid reason even if it's sickness too, especially with covid with incubation periods and all that.

My mother-in-law got covid, initially her husband tested negative but as soon as we found out we avoided both of them. About 5 days later her husband test positive. Guidance at that time was isolate for 5 days and wear a mask for 10 days later. We had to reschedule one of my sister-in-law's bday party twice because of it, first time to account for mother-in-law's isolation period and wearing a mask for 10 days and then a second time for step-father-in-law's isolation period and wearing a mask for 10 days. It ended up being like a month later we had the party. It was a last minute adjustment, had they not told us that mother-in-law had covid right when they found out it would have been inconsiderate to say the least. I'm not comparing a bday party with the investment of DVC or the downright planning regiment of a WDW trip but it was brought up by someone about covid, well even that might be an acceptable reason but it still can be last minute with inconsideration attached especially if you consider not everyone shares information on just when someone started symptoms and/or tested themselves.

I guess having had a few people be flakes including one of them my sister-in-law the DVC thing didn't strike me as a flake but none the less put you in a bad spot.

 

[RoseGold]

This trip was planned almost a year in advance. We literally priced the ticket package and the flights that night.

I was naggy about booking tickets when APs were suspended at Thanksgiving. To me, that meant ticket price changes were coming. I was also naggy last week, you know because the trip is soon. Tickets didn't go up that much, less than I expected actually. Flights are up a few hundred dollars more, if they skip a night of the trip. These people fly all the time, this isn't surprising to them. We literally talked through flying from their other vacation destination to go into or out of Orlando to save a flight. They're still going on that vacation, BTW. Feels bad.

 

[robinb]

I asked for clarification on the costs part and it wasn't answered yet at least.

I couldn't find a comment that the OP told them to buy the airfare immediately (they may have IRL but I couldn't find a comment that said they did). I did ask if the OP purchased the tickets and airfare for them then told them the cost because the OP said they agreed to the costs but we know those costs change.

That is silly. There is no way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks people pay for airfare and park passes for friends or relatives and expect them to paid me back. How much worse would that be if she did that?

We all know how travel goes, you decide to purchase airfare and suddenly within an hour it's a lot more expensive. How can someone agree to a cost if the cost changes at a moment's notice?

Well then, maybe they should have bought the airfare right away when they originally made the plans.

We don't know if they just decided or if things came up. It's really hard to judge someone else's financials sometimes.

At the end of the day none of us disagreed it was a good situation for the OP to be in, but why does that mean everyone has to have the worst opinions of the other party involved either? It doesn't have to be that way either.

I have no clue why you feel the need to stick up for the "reliably disrespectful last-minute cancelers" but you do you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is silly. There is no way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks people pay for airfare and park passes for friends or relatives and expect them to paid me back. How much worse would that be if she did that?

I think you think I was suggesting the OP do that, there was another poster who did suggest that (well paying for it for them entirely) but I did not. I asked if the OP had done that because they said they told them the price and they agreed to it, knowing how park tickets can change and certainly airfare I was asking for clarification.

Well then, maybe they should have bought the airfare right away when they originally made the plans.

Probably should have and in fact if you read my other comment you would have seen me say that:

However it is inconsiderate for them to not have told you sooner. Generally tickets and airfare (assuming the airline has released their dates SWA tends to release with less months than others but most release well in advance) should be the first thing to look at when considering financial feasibility.

But again tickets and airfare are those first things to have looked at and probably purchased if it could have happened.

I have no clue why you feel the need to stick up for the "reliably disrespectful last-minute cancelers" but you do you.

I believe in making people responsible for their actions, I do not believe in arbitrarily having a negative opinion of them just because. So yes I could say this was "something you should have done from the get go but I do understand your reasoning." I would still be disappointed, I would still say that was inconsiderate of you but I can still understand someone's reasoning. You do you I guess on being different than me in that.

 

[bumbershoot]

These are actually legit things. I would not describe this on them flaking out on you. This wasn't a wishy-washy maybe I will go maybe I won't at least not from what you said.

They are legit things that have been there the whole time. To decide at the last minute that you won't buy those things is not OK.

I don’t need to hold this many points if no one cares about them. It’s been a good run, and we can fit our little family in a good old VGF2 studio.

If you've been holding on to extra points so you can let others use them, be careful that you're not letting annoyance at this group cloud the idea of bringing other groups.

But to me it's not them being described as flakes.

Flakes are by definition unreliable individuals. A person who found themselves unable to afford 1 time does not constitute flaking out.

They aren't being called flakes. Their actions are being described as flaking. There's a difference to those of us who use language specifically.

One of my dearest friends is incredibly organized and a planner and has her whole life in order. And, on occasion, she flakes on things. If you read those words and think I'm describing her as "a flake" then you're wrong and aren't reading my actual words.

I, however, in my past, have totally been a flake with the occasional bout of having my life together and doing the things I planned to do. No one would have invited me to something like RoseGold did, because the probability was too high that I'd leave the budgeting to the last minute and wouldn't be able to go. And in fact I know people didn't invite me to things because of that, like a trip to Europe a couple very close friends never even mentioned to me until their plans were finalized. They knew I wouldn't be able to do it so they left me out.

There's a difference between being a flake and doing a flakey thing. And RG described it as the latter.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This trip was planned almost a year in advance. We literally priced the ticket package and the flights that night.

I was naggy about booking tickets when APs were suspended at Thanksgiving. To me, that meant ticket price changes were coming. I was also naggy last week, you know because the trip is soon. Tickets didn't go up that much, less than I expected actually. Flights are up a few hundred dollars more, if they skip a night of the trip. These people fly all the time, this isn't surprising to them. We literally talked through flying from their other vacation destination to go into or out of Orlando to save a flight. They're still going on that vacation, BTW. Feels bad.

Then it sounds like these people aren't ones to want to vacation with for one reason or other. I don't know what financials is going on with that other trip but I understand if you feel slighted that they are not willing OR able to (don't know which) to concede on something else just to come on your trip.

I do think there was misunderstanding in the expectations going on such that you and this group are probably not compatible for trips. I could talk about that but really it's not really needed. There may have been things you thought were crystal clear because it's what you would have done or just by talking about it you thought they were on top of it but they weren't. I've been there done that with people and it sucks and it's frustrating and stressful.

As far as the AP suspended thing=ticket increase soon, historically this isn't accurate. Disney typically does price increases Feb/March (most often but not always). Them suspending the APs was because of the holiday season and needing to crowd control AP holders, things such as no blockout dates and all yeah it was a mess, it's like they didn't know what they got themselves into with an increase in demand of travel. But them halting the sales wouldn't be an indication of non-AP tickets going up, they already had that planned out. APs weren't even known if they would be coming back.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There's a difference between being a flake and doing a flakey thing. And RG described it as the latter.

That's a fair enough statement really and appreciate you bringing that to my attention.

They are legit things that have been there the whole time. To decide at the last minute that you won't buy those things is not OK.

Yeah, never said it was. Kinda said it more than once that it wasn't, in fact in the comment just below the one you quote. So yup didn't ever say it was ok. As you said to those who use language specifically I said it was understandable and valid. Not that the act of canceling last minute somehow made it all peachy keen just because of the reason.

I admit I can be black and white sometimes but I see a lot of shades of gray too. Sometimes I pull things from both sides and it's not an either/or. To me this doesn't have to be an either/or.

As a reader I don't have to condemn (and I don't mean that extremely just that it's a descriptor) this other party themselves on a personal level because of what happened. I can condemn their actions but also understand it given the reason provided and I can say they should have told soon (which I did several times). If it was "hey we like this vacation more than your place of WDW, sorry too bad so sad" you bet your butt my viewpoint of the other party would be totally different because I was brought up if you make plans you stick with them (and that I can tell you has led to some regrets in my past). I can only go by the OP saying the explanation given was finances and to me even if I can objectively say that was the first thing that should have been figured out I can also say I understand when finances roadblock you. Finances are a delicate topic and one we are rarely truly aware of of other people we know.

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

@RoseGold were you able to work something out? The more I think about what you're dealing with, the more sucky it feels, because this is more than about just one trip right? Future trips and expectations have come into question now that you've been burned.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

@RoseGold I mean if you are really stuck in that big room by yourself, I am sure there are more than a few of us who would be happy to come keep you company <sheepishly raises hand>

 

[RoseGold]

@RoseGold I mean if you are really stuck in that big room by yourself, I am sure there are more than a few of us who would be happy to come keep you company <sheepishly raises hand>

It's a Beach Club 2BR!

I'm still working on how to fix this. It changes my whole summer plan, and I'm working around other stuff. I've got to figure something out in a few weeks before even VGF points become useless.

 

[FinallyFL]

It's a Beach Club 2BR!

I'm still working on how to fix this. It changes my whole summer plan, and I'm working around other stuff. I've got to figure something out in a few weeks before even VGF points become useless.

I think you could rent the reservation without a problem. It won't get your points back but you could use the cash to buy some transfer points.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

It's a Beach Club 2BR!

I'm still working on how to fix this. It changes my whole summer plan, and I'm working around other stuff. I've got to figure something out in a few weeks before even VGF points become useless.

I mean I can't rent them from you - i'm saving to buy a house. But tell me when and I am so there. Dinner's on me, and I swear I'm good company. We can do parks, or water parks, or Disney Springs. I'll even splurge for an uber to SeaWorld or whatever YOU want. It'll be fun.

I want you to realize what a sacrifice this is for me. I don't usually do Disney in the summer. Too danged hot. But I am willing to do this for you, because I know what a tough spot you are in, and us DVC people - we need to stick together. So, if going to Disney is the sacrifice I have to make, I can suck it up.

I should add - I have an active AP, and I know the price of plane tickets. I won't cancel.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'm still struggling to get my head around total strangers debating the familial relationships of some other total stranger.

For us, it's family. End. Of. Story. No debate necessary. Non starter from the get-go. My siblings and I are all in our fifties. If one of them decided at the last minute to cancel, FOR WHATEVER REASON, it is what it is, and things happen. We've had nearly a half-century of ups and downs, plusses and minuses, good times and bad, financial hardships and boons, and it all balances out in the end. There is ZERO price to be placed on family. Sure as hell wouldn't air it out in an internet forum, no matter how steamed I was.

Plus, family.