Issues with Rider Swap

[mom2rtk]

How could you get rider swap for Navi? I didn’t think there was a height requirement?

Ah, good point. But my point still stands on Star Wars Land.

Rider swap was never a hot topic before FP+. Because it was usually easy to just get another FP for whatever ride the family wanted to do next. FPs weren't already prebooked and gone. And tiering has introduced a whole other level of strategizing and RS has become a tool like it never used to be.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Ah, good point. But my point still stands on Star Wars Land.

Rider swap was never a hot topic before FP+. Because it was usually easy to just get another FP for whatever ride the family wanted to do next. FPs weren't already prebooked and gone. And tiering has introduced a whole other level of strategizing and RS has become a tool like it never used to be.

Exactly.

To me, rider swap is for the stand by line. That way the group only has to stand in line once.

If you get fastpasses, get them for everyone that wants to ride.

 

[DavidNYC]

Exactly.

To me, rider swap is for the stand by line. That way the group only has to stand in line once.

If you get fastpasses, get them for everyone that wants to ride.

The problem is not everyone has the same touring style or needs for their kids. Everyone who says "rider swap is for standby" is picturing a nice clean little situation with two easy groups, easy children and easy scheduling. Sometimes your schedule doesn't allow you to do back to back groups with each group waiting with the child. You need some flexibility which is why passes are good all day (even though they cut back from some being good for multiple days - they're still all day). That is why rider swap is needed at the FP line. All you do by changing it to standby only is create a whole new set of headaches for families with small kids who already have enough headaches even optimally touring with them. No one is cheating the system unless they're borrowing a child to get rider swaps. Trust me - when I toured with my twins before they were tall enough I got on far fewer rides even taking advantage of every trick in the book to optimize touring than I do now.

FP works the way 98% of the people who post here says it works. Forget the website, forget the random person who disagrees or has an experience outside the norm. Show me anything at Disney and I'll find a story of someone who it didn't work that way for. Rider swap is good at both sets of lines and until Disney explicitly changes the rules, none of the various techniques mentioned violates any rule.

If you have a problem with a particular cast member, walk away and come back in a bit when a different one is there. Odds are they'll go along with what almost every other cast member usually does.

 

[djc9699]

You can’t swap at Na’vi though (right?), so it wouldn’t apply in that scenario. I mean yeah, the person who initially sits out FOP could get FP for both, but the rest of the party wouldn’t be able to.

I don’t think the number of people doing this is making appreciable differences in wait times, and it’s not a permanent loophole for anyone. Those kids will grow up eventually! This is just one of those things that’s really not that big of a deal in my opinion.

I agree. We used rider swap at FOP this summer. My 4 adult children had a FP for FOP and my granddaughter and I had FP for Navi at the same time. We got a rider swap for FOP and my granddaughter and I rode Navi while they rode FOP. If one of us could not have gotten a different FP then my granddaughter would not have been able to use her FP at all, because someone had to ride with her. This, EE and Soarin were the only rides I really wanted to ride and the only ones we did rider swap for. All the mountains at MK, TT, RNR and such, my adult children rode while I had FPs for me and my granddaughter at the smaller rides. We did not do rider swap for those. I am doing CL and purchasing additional FPs in July but we will do the big rides for my daughter and daughter-in-law while my GD and I ride some smaller rides. The little ones get a lot taken away from them if they stand around waiting, even with a snack. They should be able to ride something too instead of waiting twice and losing a FP. The rider swap does not take anything away from anyone else, whether a separate FP is obtained or not. It only allows the too short child an opportunity to use their FP to ride with the waiting party.

 

[whiporee]

They should be able to ride something too instead of waiting twice and losing a FP. The rider swap does not take anything away from anyone else, whether a separate FP is obtained or not. It only allows the too short child an opportunity to use their FP to ride with the waiting party.

But the flip of that argument is that you should get to use two FPs so the smaller child can use one. Whether it was a favorite or not, you used one to ride with the smaller kid. Then you used RS to get a second FP for the ride you wanted to ride. So you -- and two others -- get two FPs with the actual entitlement of one.

Also, you say it doesn't take anything away from anyone, but it does slow down the FP line, doesn't it? If everyone in your party had FPs, then the later slowdown would have been compensated by the earlier speed up when you didn't use them. But as it is, you're talking about adding two or three FPs to a line. Maybe not a big deal to you because you benefit from it. Maybe not a big deal to anyone. But it's a misnomer to suggest that there is no effect, when there actually is one, and if RS is used this way a lot, that effect cumulatively increases.

 

[lovethesun12]

I really don’t understand how people think rider swap is a huge problem.To compare:

At 8 months and 2 years my kids needed naps; we were done in the parks by 12pm and DH and I MIGHT have managed to fit in a rider swap or two on splash or BTMRR in between all the rides of dumbo, IASW, etc.

Next year my youngest will be over 40” and won’t really need a nap (3 almost 4). Not much rider swap. But you will see all FOUR of us FP+’ing and/or in line for 7DMT, splash, BTMRR, Star Tours, ToT, Kali, Soarin, TT, toy story rides, Mission Space, etc. And yes, with a good touring plan we’ll fit in all the kiddie rides too.

Explain to me again how we were taking advantage of the system more when they were younger?

 

[whiporee]

I really don’t understand how people think rider swap is a huge problem.To compare:

At 8 months and 2 years my kids needed naps; we were done in the parks by 12pm and DH and I MIGHT have managed to fit in a rider swap or two on splash or BTMRR in between all the rides of dumbo, IASW, etc.

Next year my youngest will be over 40” and won’t really need a nap (3 almost 4). Not much rider swap. But you will see all FOUR of us FP+’ing and/or in line for 7DMT, splash, BTMRR, Star Tours, ToT, Kali, Soarin, TT, toy story rides, Mission Space, etc. And yes, with a good touring plan we’ll fit in all the kiddie rides too.

Explain to me again how we were taking advantage of the system more when they were younger?

I don't think anyone would say you were. Unless you had a FP for the rides and your husband didn't, and then you got RS and he got use of a FP for a ride he didn't have a FP for. At the ages your kids were, they didn't pay admission so they wouldn't have been eligible for FPs on anything, so that's sort of a mute point.

As someone said earlier, the only time anyone thinks this is an issue is in conjunction with FP+, and people getting FP benefits without having FPs. I know going with kids is difficult -- I went twice with twins in strollers and a 3/4 year old in tow. It's hard; you miss out on doing a lot of stuff. Even now I've got a kid who doesn't like coasters, so my wife or I does Buzz with him while the other does SM. Or hangs out in the playground with one while the others do Splash. Or whatever, just like at home when I don't expect my sons' theater rehearsal to delay so I can make my daughter's softball game. I don't get the sentiment that because going with small kids is difficult, special considerations should be made for those families, or that they are entitled to additional anything as a result of having to deal with kids.

But I understand others do. This is one of those philosophical arguments that depends a lot on what benefits each family at the moment. Using RS to get additional FPs -- or to get FPs for multiple Tier 1 rides at those parks that have them -- seems to me to be a violation of the spirit of the program because it causes me and my family a longer wait in the FP line. Even if that wait is a minute, it's still an additional wait, imposed upon me by someone violating what i consider to be the spirit of the rule. It's WDW's rule and how they choose to apply and enforce it is up to them, but it doesn't hurt to point out there are consequences to others -- golden rule and all that jazz. None of us want to wait any longer than we have to; in the end it's only a question of your own priorities and values. Some people put their family's happiness and enjoyment above all else, and I get that. These trips are a pain and are expensive, so I get the desire to squeeze every ounce of fun out of a day. But if someone asks on a message board whether it's okay to do something I consider skirting the rules, I don't think it's out of line to say so. Maybe they'll reconsider; maybe they won't. But they'll at least know there's another way of looking at it.

 

[lovethesun12]

Some people put their family's happiness and enjoyment above all else, and I get that. These trips are a pain and are expensive, so I get the desire to squeeze every ounce of fun out of a day. But if someone asks on a message board whether it's okay to do something I consider skirting the rules, I don't think it's out of line to say so. Maybe they'll reconsider; maybe they won't. But they'll at least know there's another way of looking at it.

I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I think allowing a parent with a young child to have a few extra rides (even if it means increasing my own wait by a few minutes) *is* in the spirit of Disney. Personally, I consider this putting others happiness before myself (but really I think I’m still happy, the parent is happy, so with rider swap everyone is happy other than the person who is inconvenienced by a couple minutes extra wait, which also is an assumption).

But I digress. I can see how others see this as skirting the rules but I see it as common courtesy.

 

[DisneyOma]

The problem is not everyone has the same touring style or needs for their kids. Everyone who says "rider swap is for standby" is picturing a nice clean little situation with two easy groups, easy children and easy scheduling. Sometimes your schedule doesn't allow you to do back to back groups with each group waiting with the child. You need some flexibility which is why passes are good all day (even though they cut back from some being good for multiple days - they're still all day). That is why rider swap is needed at the FP line. All you do by changing it to standby only is create a whole new set of headaches for families with small kids who already have enough headaches even optimally touring with them. No one is cheating the system unless they're borrowing a child to get rider swaps. Trust me - when I toured with my twins before they were tall enough I got on far fewer rides even taking advantage of every trick in the book to optimize touring than I do now.

FP works the way 98% of the people who post here says it works. Forget the website, forget the random person who disagrees or has an experience outside the norm. Show me anything at Disney and I'll find a story of someone who it didn't work that way for. Rider swap is good at both sets of lines and until Disney explicitly changes the rules, none of the various techniques mentioned violates any rule.

If you have a problem with a particular cast member, walk away and come back in a bit when a different one is there. Odds are they'll go along with what almost every other cast member usually does.

This post is just loaded with entitlement, IMO. Disney offers a service that they really don't have to offer. Going to WDW is not a right, it's a privilege. So what if your schedule "doesn't allow you" - then you just don't ride. The world does not end.

 

[BUFtoMCO]

This ultimately comes down to a business decision by Disney. They have an opportunity to get families to the park when they're young. If they can make the experience the best they can they can create an experience the best they can which makes these families come back for years to come.

I have a 4 and 2 year old. We bought APs and have used Disney as a break from the Northeast winters. My son (2 yr old) will be going on his 7th trip. I love seeing my kids have fun but the last 2 trips I was bored. We never used RS before and stuck to the rides they could do. I decided to venture out and start doing a couple adult rides during the trip and enjoy being able to do that. My wife doesn't want to now because she wants to stay with the kids. I usually just book a FP for one while they ride another ride. If my wife wanted to go on the more thrilling rides we'd be out in a situation between picking our own enjoyment and the kids and through a chain of events would probably end up taking a vacation to a beach instead of Disney 3-4 times a year. Disney is done with the good will or thinking about the experience being magical for everyone. By proving rider swap it adds enjoyment to the parents trip that increases the likelihood that they'll be back with their families.

 

[dlavender]

But the flip of that argument is that you should get to use two FPs so the smaller child can use one. Whether it was a favorite or not, you used one to ride with the smaller kid. Then you used RS to get a second FP for the ride you wanted to ride. So you -- and two others -- get two FPs with the actual entitlement of one.

Also, you say it doesn't take anything away from anyone, but it does slow down the FP line, doesn't it? If everyone in your party had FPs, then the later slowdown would have been compensated by the earlier speed up when you didn't use them. But as it is, you're talking about adding two or three FPs to a line. Maybe not a big deal to you because you benefit from it. Maybe not a big deal to anyone. But it's a misnomer to suggest that there is no effect, when there actually is one, and if RS is used this way a lot, that effect cumulatively increases.

I disagree.

I'll use my family as an example. Take a look at the below scenario:

Myself, and two oldest kids get FP's for Space Mountain, and DW and youngest get FP's for Buzz. We get a Rider Swap for Space so my wife can ride with the two oldest on Space again.

The rider swap is good for 3 people. If my wife had a FP for space, she would not even be able to use it (unless she wanted to go by herself).

So 3 people entered the FP line with FP's. Then 3 people entered the FP line again, using Rider Swap.

If wife had the FP for Space, then 3 people would still have entered the FP line again, 1 using a FP, 2 using the rider swap. Her using the FP would be wasted, as the rider swap already gets her in. It's a net 0 change. There is no effect.

If she decided to ride by herself just to use the FP, then there's another person entering the FP line. Instead of her doing that, DW and youngest get FP for Buzz, both use their FP. No cheating or rule breaking there.

Again, its a net 0 change. But instead of riding Space by herself using the FP, she uses the FP for Buzz.......

No other side to that....


ETA: To simplify, 5 people were eligible to book FP's and use them, 5 people booked FP's and used them. 0 net effect.....

 

[mjkacmom]

Maybe it has worked for us because a 12yo isn't old enough to wait alone.

If it is that common to be denied, then maybe I will take a screen shot of the WDW website with me on our next trip.

Why wouldn’t a 12 year old be old enough to wait alone for a few minutes? I remember taking the monorail to MK alone at that age.

 

[bloomcruisers]

When my kids were RS size, the program was not yet an option. So we made a number of trips where we did only kid friendly rides and concentrated on the whole park experience of shows, parades, characters, fireworks, etc. The adults just sucked it up that we missed some things we'd normally do on an adults only trip. It was a big "yay" when they were finally tall enough to hit the restricted attractions and we could add those into our trip.
Then RS came along, and friends and relatives with little ones were able to enjoy using it. It never bothered me at all that they were able to do that and we were not. It's a very reasonable way to let families enjoy all the attractions that the parks have to offer without having little ones being left out of the fun since they can now ride a different attraction with the nonriding adult using their own FP+. We eventually used it with the grandkids and it truly was a godsend. Remember that these kids will grow soon enough and won't be able to use it anymore.
I sort of see those complaining in the same way as I see those who complain that they have to pay school taxes and they don't have any kids. They don't consider that they themselves were at one point a kid who was given the opportunity to get a free public education and are basically paying it back as an adult. People using rider swap now will pay it back by waiting a minute or two longer later when they have no small kids with them. And people who have no little ones at the moment may benefit in the future when they become parents or grandparents or travel with others who are.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Why wouldn’t a 12 year old be old enough to wait alone for a few minutes? I remember taking the monorail to MK alone at that age.

No, I don't think 12yo is old enough for them to wait by themselves because we will be in a busy theme park when the rest of their family could be in line and riding for over an hour.

 

[dlavender]

No, I don't think 12yo is old enough for them to wait by themselves because we will be in a busy theme park when the rest of their family could be in line and riding for over an hour.

I also think its up to the parents to decide when their kids are old enough to do anything..........

 

[whiporee]

I disagree.

I'll use my family as an example. Take a look at the below scenario:

Myself, and two oldest kids get FP's for Space Mountain, and DW and youngest get FP's for Buzz. We get a Rider Swap for Space so my wife can ride with the two oldest on Space again.

The rider swap is good for 3 people. If my wife had a FP for space, she would not even be able to use it (unless she wanted to go by herself).

So 3 people entered the FP line with FP's. Then 3 people entered the FP line again, using Rider Swap.

If wife had the FP for Space, then 3 people would still have entered the FP line again, 1 using a FP, 2 using the rider swap. Her using the FP would be wasted, as the rider swap already gets her in. It's a net 0 change. There is no effect.

If she decided to ride by herself just to use the FP, then there's another person entering the FP line. Instead of her doing that, DW and youngest get FP for Buzz, both use their FP. No cheating or rule breaking there.

Again, its a net 0 change. But instead of riding Space by herself using the FP, she uses the FP for Buzz.......

No other side to that....

ETA: To simplify, 5 people were eligible to book FP's and use them, 5 people booked FP's and used them. 0 net effect.....

No. Five people were eligible to book them, and those 5 bookings turned into a total of six FPs used for SM, and an additional two for Buzz. Five turns into eight.

Not much an issue, but even if you're just counting SM, there's an extra FP tossed in.

 

[dlavender]

No. Five people were eligible to book them, and those 5 bookings turned into a total of six FPs used for SM, and an additional two for Buzz. Five turns into eight.

Not much an issue, but even if you're just counting SM, there's an extra FP tossed in.

Where's the extra?

Rider swap allows return entry for 3 into the FP queue.

So 3 people used FP's for the ride, and then 3 get to use the rider swap pass.

If you are using that math, then anytime rider switch is used, there's an extra FP being used. At least 2 more everytime.....and the pass is good for up to three. There is literally no point in any of the three that the RS covers to have an FP, since you can't even use it. But that person, if they did have a FP for SM, could then still reboard by themselves using the FP. But instead of doing that, they are using it for a different ride. Again, a net 0 change in the FP lines, which you stated there would be......

So you are stating that the child too short to ride should essentially "gift" their unused FP to the rider swap adult going on the pass, to "even" it out....

You want the 5 bookings to turn into 7. The only way for that to happen is for the littlest to not have an FP at all. So they give up their FP opportunity, just to even out the up to 3 on the pass?

Write WDW and let them know.......

I'm sure they can turn it into an upsell.

 

[ejgonz2]

I haven't read through the entire thread but we used rider swap extensively during our trip in early March. We never had any trouble and the CMs never asked to confirm that all party members had FP (not that we tried to use that trick). In fact with my middle children too small to ride FOP, my oldest was able to ride 5 times using their FPs and rider swaps from our 2 year old.

 

[DavidNYC]

This post is just loaded with entitlement, IMO. Disney offers a service that they really don't have to offer. Going to WDW is not a right, it's a privilege. So what if your schedule "doesn't allow you" - then you just don't ride. The world does not end.

Guess what? Everyone is ENTITLED to use the system Disney designed. You and others on this board do not get to tell a family that you have to use Rider Swap the way YOU think it should work. You don't get to tell a family that they have to tour the way YOU want them to tour. You don't write, enforce or interpret the rules. It's loaded with entitlement for you to suggest that others should give up rides if they can't tour the way you think they should. Wow - disgusting suggestion to call someone entitled and tell them not to ride when they're using a rider swap pass exactly as allowed.

 

[tchris4]

We were allowed to swap Navi because my daughter was asleep in the stroller. No one ended up using the swap because as it turned out my husband had no interest in riding it when she woke up, but we asked when we went up with our FP if swap was available because she was out cold and they said yes. I would not rely on that though. Just an FYI.