Is'nt this just wrong?

[simpilotswife]

It bothers me a lot.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

As I've said before, the emotional side of this board gives me a laugh.
<snip>
If, by your own admission, it's their right why is it slimy. They bought the points and are using them as they see fit. I think we're back to the emotional components again.

There are many things that are a person's right, but are still slimey. It is your right to cheat on your wife, but that would certainly be slimey.

I think it's wrong. Yes, I'm thinking emotionally. So what?
So what if we have emotion? For crying out loud, IT'S DISNEY! I mean, the whole Disney thing is based on emotion!
If I wanted to calculate everything completely business like, and only in a way to save every buck, that would take much of the fun out of the trip.
Is it still okay to smile and have a good time at WDW?

MG

 

[DVCLiz]

Sorry, but I see a BIG difference there. I didn't take a vow to keep all my Disney points sacred for me and me alone, but cheating on a spouse would fall into a whole other category as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing wrong with using DVC points in any way approved by Disney, and as long as rental of points is allowed, I'm not going to concede that it's a slimy practice.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Sorry, but I see a BIG difference there. I didn't take a vow to keep all my Disney points sacred for me and me alone, but cheating on a spouse would fall into a whole other category as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing wrong with using DVC points in any way approved by Disney, and as long as rental of points is allowed, I'm not going to concede that it's a slimy practice.

True, but respectfully that is not the issue. I'm not really arguing about DVC contracts vs marriage vows.
The issue is that something can be someone's right to do it, and still be slimy at the same time.

MG

 

[DVCLiz]

I suppose there's an emotional aspect to this "argument" that I'm just not getting. For me, it would be slimy to try and cheat the sytem by inviting off-site guests to use Stormalong Bay, or inviting a family with six kids to share my studio with me, or any of a number of different scenarios that are, to me, legitimate abuses of the DVC system. But the rental issue just doesn't get to me. If someone had 1000 points and rented ten 100 point reservations for his employees as a Christmas bonus, I'd think, "What a kind and generous boss, and do you have a job opening?" It just doesn't ruffle my feathers that someone with that same 1000 points might make those same ten reservations and sell them to others.

Anyway, I've already planned my 2006 trips, so I don't have any points left to use OR to rent. So really, I have more important things to do, like make multiple ADRs for the same times in case I change my mind about where I want to have dinner.....

JUST KIDDING!!!!!! Now that IS slimy!!!!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I suppose there's an emotional aspect to this "argument" that I'm just not getting. For me, it would be slimy to try and cheat the sytem by inviting off-site guests to use Stormalong Bay, or inviting a family with six kids to share my studio with me, or any of a number of different scenarios that are, to me, legitimate abuses of the DVC system. But the rental issue just doesn't get to me. If someone had 1000 points and rented ten 100 point reservations for his employees as a Christmas bonus, I'd think, "What a kind and generous boss, and do you have a job opening?" It just doesn't ruffle my feathers that someone with that same 1000 points might make those same ten reservations and sell them to others.

Anyway, I've already planned my 2006 trips, so I don't have any points left to use OR to rent. So really, I have more important things to do, like make multiple ADRs for the same times in case I change my mind about where I want to have dinner.....

JUST KIDDING!!!!!! Now that IS slimy!!!!

LOL!
You know, we agree on almost everthing here. I also wouldn't mind a boss giving away Disney vacations.
That just seems different to me than renting a load of holiday weeks.

MG

 

[DVCLiz]

LOL!
You know, we agree on almost everthing here. I also wouldn't mind a boss giving away Disney vacations.
That just seems different to me than renting a load of holiday weeks.

MG

Well, if you ever DO have to rent your points, call me first!!!!!!!

 

[greenban]

Does this bother me? Um, why should I even care what some person with a DVC reservation does with it?

Honestly, to me this falls squarely into "Serenity Prayer" territory:

[Universe] grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

[rn]

Dr.T, this isn't like you, you left out part of the serenity prayer!

......

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had
to kill today because they ticked me off.

And also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on
today as they be connected to the butt that I may have
to kiss tomorrow.

Help me to always give 100% at work...
12% on Monday.
23% on Tuesday.
40% on Wednesday.
20% on Thursday.
5% on Friday.

And help me to remember...
When I'm having a really bad day,
and it seems that people are trying to annoy me,
that it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 4...
to extend my middle finger and tell them to bite me!

Amen and pass the ammo!


-Tony

 

[Dean]

There are many things that are a person's right, but are still slimey. It is your right to cheat on your wife, but that would certainly be slimey.

I think it's wrong. Yes, I'm thinking emotionally. So what?
So what if we have emotion? For crying out loud, IT'S DISNEY! I mean, the whole Disney thing is based on emotion!
If I wanted to calculate everything completely business like, and only in a way to save every buck, that would take much of the fun out of the trip.
Is it still okay to smile and have a good time at WDW?

MG

Actually it's not really Disney, it's a timeshare. No different than any other timeshare in this regard. As for taking the fun out, I think it's the other way around. I'm not stressing because someone else is staying at my preferred resort while I'm having to stay somewhere else. And I'm not stressing over this topic or situation when it comes up like so many. Actually I'm usually ROTFL that people get so worked up over it.

 

[kmc33]

I feel that members should have exclusive rights to pool hopping, discounts, DVC free valet parking and the dining plan without tickets. I feel when renters get these perks that members have paid for; then why shouldn't someone renting from Disney get them too.

I thought that you do have to be a member for some of these perks... like the pool hopping, valet parking, discounts... Don't you have to show your membership card?

Now I recently read about renters being able to get the dining plan without tickets and that surprised me. I thought that it should be a member perk.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Actually it's not really Disney, it's a timeshare. No different than any other timeshare in this regard.

You see? There you go again taking the emotion out of it!

The legal documents say it's a timeshare.
When I walk into the VWL atrium, my senses (read emotion) say it's Disney.

While on vacation I couldn't care less what the legal mumbo-jumbo says.

MG

 

[bsusanmb]

I would be really suspicious about this vacation. Why can't you bid if you are a DVC owner? Is it because you have knowledge of the system? If you read my previous post, you will see I was scammed in the past. If this person doesn't have a reserve bid to cover his losses, he is either crazy or a scam artist. There are MANY on ebay and I would never rent on ebay. I know there are a few owners who are honest on ebay, but you don't get the same deal as you get from this message board. Buyer beware

 

[yitbos96bb]

They are obviously members since not all weeks are 7 days. But it's their points and their right. As was mentioned above, the only thing you could do would be to refer them back to DVC under the commercial renter clause. I'd be interested in knowing what would happen though I suspect not a thing. If no one bids, that will fix that. I'd also agree that it does not matter. Anyone else who owned at those resorts could have reserved at 11 months out and I'd put anyone renting from an owner at X resort as above a DVC owner from a different DVC resort.

As I've said before, the emotional side of this board gives me a laugh. The perks are a good example. There are few perks I can think of that if a non member (guest or rentee) where it hurts the member in any way other than their own insecurity. The exceptions would be things like pool hopping where there would be crowding issues. But if someone gets a meal discount when staying at DVC, it doesn't hurt other members one bit and likely helps them. DVC does not pay anything for these discounts and the like, likely with a couple of exceptions. So the more people who use restaurant X using the DVC discount, the better it likely is for members as the perk is more likely to continue.

If, by your own admission, it's their right why is it slimy. They bought the points and are using them as they see fit. I think we're back to the emotional components again.

Yes it is emotional a bit... Think of it in terms similiar to this. I respect someone's right to burn a flag but I find the practice slimy. I see it as too different elements Dean... the first is the right to do something... can my neighbor sell their house for $50K below market value, can someone say they hate a certain race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. of people... Absolutely... That is their rights as Americans. Just as it is the rights of that person to reserve the days and sell them.

Then the second part comes along. There is emotion, some would say ethics as well, but that is philosophical debate. I find the KKK's message to be absolutely reprehensible, but they have the right say it. I find the burning of a flag a bad thing (unless done to retire the flag) but again, people have the right to do it. And I find the practice of poaching the good days to not use but sell to be slimy as well, taking them away from other members who would like to go those days... but they have the right to do this. BTW, I feel the same way about ticket brokers as well. I guess my point is that just because one CAN do something doesn't mean they SHOULD do it.

 

[Maria395712]

it could be the person that bought 3000 plus points on the rent/trade board and they just recently joined. I wondered what someone would need all those points for? just a thought , they didn't have the same name here and on e bay which is no surprise and if they don't rent all these points in holding?
maria

 

[keishashadow]

Easy to defend the high-road on this one but, examine the following scenario:

*You finally pass ROFR (much later than expected due to clerical errors, even though you paid extra for expedited closing).

*You attempt to book a week @ slightly less than 7 months out...too bad,"no room @ any inn"

*Shortly thereafter you see several offers for the same week/guaranteed reservation being sold on eBay...smart business or bad karma?

I've since found out that the time in question, 1st week in Dec. is very popular w/DVC'ers) but, all the guidebooks term it low season.
Always easy to be rational when it doesn't directly affect you or your slice of the magic.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I'm not a DVC member but have been carefully researching it for a while. I know that it some respects, it is an emotional decision for me to buy at DVC because I have such fond Disney family vacation memories. Without that Disney emotional attachment that weighs in, I wouldn't be considering a timeshare at all, so I do understand to a certain degree that people have strong emotional opinions on DVC.

Having said that however, color me confused, because I don't get this whole renting as a "business" thing.

I mean, if the maximum number of points that one person is allowed to own is 5,000 points, they would have had a minimum initial cash outlay for the down payment of approximately $38,000.00 (using a min. of $75.00 per point as the purchase price with a 10% down payment), and assuming the rest was financed.

Even if someone with 5,000 points were to rent all of them, on average at $10.00 per point or $50,000.00 annually, by the time you factor in the average annual maintenance fees of $23,000.00 or so, plus your monthly loan payments, as well as your lost earnings on the cash outlay, and figure in what you will be paying in taxes on that rental income, your net profit would seem pretty skimpy after all things are considered.

That isn't even taking into consideration what your time is worth having to make 5,000 points worth of reservations every year.

If they actually paid cash for all 5,000 points, then this whole thing makes even LESS sense. Why would you let go of nearly $400,000.00 cash upfront to gross $27,000.00 a year, before taxes, in rentals? Surely, there are far more profitable ways on earning a return on that huge amount of money.

What am I missing? I know there has to be something I'm not understanding if people are actually doing this because it sure doesn't make any sense to me!

 

[CarolMN]

These particular auctions (the ones listed in the OP) are not the best examples to get worked up over -

If the member had reserved these particular dates at the 11 or even the 7 month month window, I might agree that it was "slimy" (but still be OK with it as everyone has the same opportunity to book). But it's hard to believe this member did that - if he/she had, why wait until the last minute to auction the dates?

Some of the dates are already less than 31 days away. I bet this person is just using up holding account points and hoping for the best.

In any event, I am hard pressed to feel badly for any member who wanted those dates and didn't book them before now. IMHO, it is unrealistic to expect to be able to book less than 60 days from arrival - especially for spring break or Easter. Again, JMHO, YMMV.

Best wishes -

 

[DrTomorrow]

Dr.T, this isn't like you, you left out part of the serenity prayer!

......

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had
to kill today because they ticked me off.

And also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on
today as they be connected to the butt that I may have
to kiss tomorrow.

Help me to always give 100% at work...
12% on Monday.
23% on Tuesday.
40% on Wednesday.
20% on Thursday.
5% on Friday.

And help me to remember...
When I'm having a really bad day,
and it seems that people are trying to annoy me,
that it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 4...
to extend my middle finger and tell them to bite me!

Amen and pass the ammo!


-Tony

Thanks for a healthy dose of perspective!

 

[Mickmse2002]

I never understand why some people get so worked up over this whole issue. Everyone who owns DVC points has the same opportunity to make reservations, within the confines of home resort windows. Why get peeved because someone else is auctioning off a reservation you did not make in a timely fashion? None of us knows, unless you have personal contact with the person renting the points, why they have so many reservations made that they are auctioning off so to refer to it as "slimy" is a bit perjorative.

The only thing that takes away from my DVC enjoyment is my own feelings......which are completely controllable.

 

[LoveToDisney]

I have not figured the total points yet but Cruelladeville suggested the they might not be members.

It is against II rules to sell an II reservation (you can only "give" it away to a guest) so this person probably owns the points. Plus, you are not going to find those prime dates available as a trade through II anyway!