Is this legal for DVC to do?

[dianeschlicht]

Well I contacted Member Accounting today and didn't get very far. They are adament that I am responsible for the bill whether there was a problem with the credit card or not. When I asked why I was not contacted about having my account put on hold the woman said that they have thousands of holds and don't have time to contact all of the members.

Oh well there's really not much else I can do just wait until they contact my BIL or he gets a hold of them. Until then my account is on hold and I"ll have to wait to make my May reservations.

Just chalk this up to a lesson learned. Thanks for everyone opinions and input on this issue.

diesel

Did they give you any suggestions? Did they indicate they were trying to contact your brother?

 

[MiaSRN62]

Diesel,
Sorry this turned into a mess for you. Your bil definitely had good intentions where paying the bill was concerned. Sorry DVC or the resort dropped the ball and wouldn't accept his attempt at paying. Please keep us updated on how quickly (or not) this issue is resolved. Good luck to you.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) To answer your question - Yes, DVC can do this.
2) Any hotel has the right to recoup charges, even if their initial error.
3) The DVC contract allows the owner to be ultimately responsible.
4) It is only an accommodation that they let the renter charge.

5) To make it very clear, the owner can be charged for
. . . room charges not paid by the renter
. . . damages to the property or furnishings by the renter
. . . theft of furnishings by the renter

 

[dizfanz]

I agree with you Johnnie. If DVC has this absolute power to hold an owner responsible for any charges incurred by a guest, then they should also give us the right to not allow any charges to the room whatsoever. Somehow though, I do not believe that can happen. I mean, if they forget to charge someone's credit card, what are the chances the person at the front desk would see my request to not allow any charges to the room? This smells like DBS!

 

[crisi]

But why should they. i.e. what does it do for THEM? They don't encourage point rental and do very little to facilitate it. They aren't interested in not recouping charges. The only negative to them currently is a few unhappy DVC members. And they will happily let you resell your contract if you aren't happy.

Most of the time the system works. i.e. the room charges end up getting billed to the room occupants card and the member doesn't get involved. When it doesn't work, Disney wants a way to make sure their bills get paid.

 

[childsplay]

Since Disney wrote the rules for the game we play (DVC Membership) it doesn't surprise me in the least that they wrote them to their advantage. I agree that they dropped the ball when they didn't charge your BIL credit card...but luckily (insert sarcasm) for them they can just charge you...look at it as a saftey net for their incompetence.

 

[ITGirl50]

I'm sure this isn't an isolated example of Disney's poor CC system...

We rented this summer and someone at BWV mistyped the CC authorization number. All of our charges were denied by the CC company AFTER we went home (why was it approved when we checked in ). We didn't know there was a problem until we were notified by our CC company with a fraud alert (this was weeks after we returned). We approved the charges over the phone and it was taken care of.

This was our first rental and had a very good experience renting. Thank you for trusting us. But....We also had to trust our owner. I was really concerned we would arrive at BWV and our reservation and $$$ would be gone. I think renting can be just as scary for the renter as it is for the owner.


Cindy

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

This also sounds like a "cookie-cutter corporate policy":

If a points reservation doesn't pay the bill at check-out, complete form "384869466c" and forward to DVC member accounting.

The front desk management can dust their hands off and get that problem off their desk...job done.

Still seems to me the contract to purchase incidentals is between the CC holder, the CC company and Disney.

BTW, If the renter commits any crime while at DVC (credit card fraud or otherwise), is the member responsible for that too??

 

[dianeschlicht]

BTW, If the renter commits any crime while at DVC (credit card fraud or otherwise), is the member responsible for that too??

Only as it would apply specifically to DVC. Credit card fraud at the resort might be the member's responsibility, but if they decide to murder someone, I doubt a rental agreement comes into play there. (please see tongue in cheek)

 

[DebbieB]

It's pretty sad that it was their mistake, they don't even notify you that there is a problem and then they wash their hands of it. You may want to notify the member satisfaction manager, Carli D'Agostino. She should be aware of it. I could see if they tried to resolve it and put a hold on the member's account as a last resort but this sounds like they didn't even do anything.

 

[lizziepooh]

I was also interested in their comment that they have "thousands of holds on accounts." What is all that about? Isn't that a lot? Would most of that be from late payments or dues not paid? I wonder if they are approving financing too easily.

I am sorry about your problem. I would only rent my points in case of emergency, but it does make me think twice about it.

 

[cruise-o-matic]

But why should they. i.e. what does it do for THEM? They don't encourage point rental and do very little to facilitate it. They aren't interested in not recouping charges. The only negative to them currently is a few unhappy DVC members. And they will happily let you resell your contract if you aren't happy.

Most of the time the system works. i.e. the room charges end up getting billed to the room occupants card and the member doesn't get involved. When it doesn't work, Disney wants a way to make sure their bills get paid.

Yeah, but you cannot transfer a contract that's in bad standing. Outstanding monies of mf's have to be paid for the transfer to go through.

And sure, Disney wants to make sure the $ gets paid. But why should the DVC owner be at fault for Disney's incompetence?

Not to pick on you, but this is a case of passing the buck and poor customer service.

 

[crisi]

Because the owner is....that's what the contract says. Why should they be at fault, they aren't at fault, but they are liable. The person staying in the unit was using the member's points.

Is it poor customer service, yep. MS should send out a note whenever anyone's account goes into bad standing for whatever reason with the reason. It isn't that hard to send out form letters. Is it passing the buck - not in my opinion - its what we agreed to when we signed up. Passing the buck is, IMO, expecting Disney to pick up the loss that we agreed to pay.

 

[Dean]

Yeah, but you cannot transfer a contract that's in bad standing. Outstanding monies of mf's have to be paid for the transfer to go through.

And sure, Disney wants to make sure the $ gets paid. But why should the DVC owner be at fault for Disney's incompetence?

Not to pick on you, but this is a case of passing the buck and poor customer service.

Because they are responsible for their guests. And even though Disney did mess up, this is ultimately their main way to get paid. Even one unpaid phone call will put you in this situation.

 

[DebbieB]

Because the owner is....that's what the contract says. Why should they be at fault, they aren't at fault, but they are liable. The person staying in the unit was using the member's points.

Is it poor customer service, yep. MS should send out a note whenever anyone's account goes into bad standing for whatever reason with the reason. It isn't that hard to send out form letters. Is it passing the buck - not in my opinion - its what we agreed to when we signed up. Passing the buck is, IMO, expecting Disney to pick up the loss that we agreed to pay.

I don't think anyone is saying that Disney should pick up the loss if it cannot ultimately be collected. The OP's BIL called to try to correct it more than once, they blew him off! It's not like the BIL used a fraudulent credit card, in that case it would be different. It's really not fair to put a hold on the OP's account with no notice while they initially investigate their mistake. If it isn't resolved in say 60 or 90 days, then put a hold.

 

[crisi]

Yes, the OP's BIL was very responsible and spent a lot of time trying to track this down - which is why, in this case, it doesn't sound like it will be a big deal. And yes, Disney did apparently "blow him off." But why isn't it fair to put a hold on the OPs account? There is an unpaid debt. When there is an unpaid debt, Disney puts a hold on the account.

I suspect what happened is that Disney didn't have anything on BIL's account in late June because it had already been transfered over to "member's debt." Had deisel called then as well, they'd have found the charges and taken care of the problem, but that Disney can't look at deisel's account for her/his BIL due to privacy laws. That there isn't any process for Disney to catch these, look up the original occupant of the room, give them a call, and confirm that they can charge the credit card - that once the credit card is closed, any additional charges simply move to becoming a owner liability. Finally, that most front desk CMs don't have a clue how the room charge process works, and that BIL would have had to have been talking to someone in DVC accounting to even find the problem. Not that he should have known that. Just my suspicions.

 

[Disney Doll]

Why not just have your BIL send you a check for the amount and then you send it to whomever you have to send it to?

As the points owner, I would assume that anything a renter did while using my points would ultimately be my responsibility.

I do agree with you that DVC should have notified you about an outstanding balance with them so you could have been working on clearing it up. I also think your BIL should have been a bit quicker to rectify the situaiton...we all know that charges get put onto CC's relatively quickly these days...to have that much of a charge not showing up had to indicate a problem.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

On the question of responsibility -- the offering statement includes:

"All renters and exchangers must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes, and the renting Owners will be responsible for the acts or omissions of their renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Owners to use a reserved Vacation Home."

I had to read this again. But I don't see this as specifically indicating the owner as responsible for a renters DTD shopping spree billed to the renters pre-approved CC. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm suprised that so many members interpret it so broadly and not more strictly related to the physical DVC units.

Besides a screw-up at Disney accounting, can you think of other ways a renter could "work this" without commiting CC fraud?

 

[AFMom]

We're with you, JohnnieF. My DH and I have looked this all over - and no matter how you slice it - this just doesn't go back to the owner. This debate will go on for days, weeks, etc - so I'll be dodging the flames now. But hey - Everyone has their right to an opinion.....
I can see the owner being responsible for charges to the room that did not require a CC placed (ie phone calls and room service) and obviously any damage or theft. The CC issue is a contract between Disney and the person who leaves the CC. This isn't any sort of "act or omission" of the renter - it's a Disney error.
If it came down to it with us - we would pitch a stick with Disney. I have a feeling that if anyone actually questioned this at a high level - they would have to back down and admit their error is at thier expense. But of course - they are going to try to get their money anyway they can!
There were so many mistakes made here.... BIL not getting charged, the resort not realizing the error right away, DVC not notifing the member right away, etc. Someone out there in the chain is just trying to cover themselves and is hoping it'll fly.

 

[ralphd]

Again, with any timeshare contract- read the contract and you will find the contract owner is responsible for any problems during a reservation booked against that contract. The member signed the contract, not the guest. The member is responsible, not the guest. The resort will try to settle any problems with the guest, but if that fails for any reason, the member is responsible, period.