Is this how "bashing" first begins?

[Dean]

Great but can we see the actual numbers instead of the interpretation. Since you dismiss the idea of raw numbers having anything to do with availability, I question your interpretation of those numbers.

After all, are we talking things such as 95% vs. 85% of ROOMS FILLED or 95% vs. 85% of OWNERS RESERVING ROOMS. There's a big difference between the two numbers.

I looked, I can't find any of the documentation, maybe other old timers have that info still. The numbers that stick in my mind are 79% for OKW and 92% for BWV but they could be wrong and I'm sure they were seasonal and not for the year. Given they were for 10 years ago or more, I'm not sure it'd really mean anything anyway. I'd say we're talking 95-99% for a fair portion of the year vs 50-60% at SSR with OKW being a little higher. But as you point out, I don't have anything to show you to prove it so you'll just have to make your own interpretation. That you even acknowledge there is a difference is a start because on previous threads that too was questioned.

Interesting that I found and had either forgotten or never noticed, that BVTC had an affiliation with Hilton (HGVC) that seemed to go away in 95 from what I could see.

 

[BroganMc]

I looked, I can't find any of the documentation, maybe other old timers have that info still. The numbers that stick in my mind are 79% for OKW and 92% for BWV but they could be wrong and I'm sure they were seasonal and not for the year. Given they were for 10 years ago or more, I'm not sure it'd really mean anything anyway. I'd say we're talking 95-99% for a fair portion of the year vs 50-60% at SSR with OKW being a little higher. But as you point out, I don't have anything to show you to prove it so you'll just have to make your own interpretation. That you even acknowledge there is a difference is a start because on previous threads that too was questioned.

Again I ask, percent of what exactly? ROOMS OCCUPIED or OWNERS OCCUPYING HOME RESORT. If it's the former then that is just proving my point that size matters. If it's the latter then it proves your point of resort preference.

To put it bluntly, I never questioned that there are always more rooms available at SSR. (That's one of the bonuses to owning there or liking that resort... you can reasonably expect last minute reservations.) I just consistently questioned the hypothesis that more SSR owners (percentage wise) prefer not to stay home as compared to the other DVC resorts.

Interesting that I found and had either forgotten or never noticed, that BVTC had an affiliation with Hilton (HGVC) that seemed to go away in 95 from what I could see.

For the acronym-challenged, what is BVTC?

 

[BroganMc]

FWIW, we don't own a car and have zero interest in driving while at WDW - it's the main reason that on-property stays have always been a must for us. At the same time, we don't find AKL to be problematically remote - it's always been our favorite resort, and it's what compelled us to buy DVC.

And by that testimonial I'd categorize you as a "resort enthusiast". Every resort will have them and that's fabulous. And to start, it is the resort enthusiasts who are the early buyers (within the first 6 months). But AKV will be selling for the next couple of years. That's where I expect we'll get the majority of ownership for the resort.

For them, the choices of another resort will go away. It will simply be a matter of room occupancy and what's for sale. If DVC installs the sleeper chair in other resorts, that occupancy advantage goes away (why I don't expect that before AKV nearly sells out).

BCV and BWV are uniquely connected, but SSR, for example, is only marginally more 'walkable' in terms of connectivity than AKV. It's a fairly enormous walking distance from one side of the resort to the other, let alone to DTD. It's at least multimodal in that it has boat access, however.

We've been through that on many threads before. Bottomline, SSR & DTD take up roughly the same square footage as the Epcot resorts and World Showcase. (Actually Epcot resorts and WS are bigger.) SSR is equivelant to the Epcot resorts in distance. Both of them 10 times more amenities than AKV/AKL in the same area.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I've been here since the BCV opening. I've seen the bashing at BCV, SSR, and now AKV.
I have never seen the severity of bashing at BCV or AKV that I've seen at SSR. Personally, I doubt I ever will.
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with bashing a resort, nor do I believe SSR is bash worthy. I just simply have seen SSR take a beating like no other.

...........
MG

I agree.......

I wonder why those that are so in tune with the occupancy and availability dont ever acknowledge the fact that SSR is a resort under construction I cannot believe they believe that SSR's availbility is not affected by newly constructed units being released to inventory.
They use these "all that was available was SSR" threads to bolster their skewed views on availability. When if SSR was finished, that person would have found zero late availability.
Someone asked months ago whether they needed to book SSR for NYE at their 11 month window. The majority advised no, SSR was sooo big it would be available. I pm'd that person and told them to book it ASAP after reviewing the point chart and construction status. The 7 month window opened up late last week and SSR is sold out except for a few 1 bedroom units.
It's OK to not like a resort, but when you ignore the facts and start lobbying against a resort to promote your own agenda, it is to the detriment of those that come here for help.

 

[BroganMc]

Someone asked months ago whether they needed to book SSR for NYE at their 11 month window. The majority advised no, SSR was sooo big it would be available. I pm'd that person and told them to book it ASAP after reviewing the point chart and construction status. The 7 month window opened up late last week and SSR is sold out except for a few 1 bedroom units.
It's OK to not like a resort, but when you ignore the facts and start lobbying against a resort to promote your own agenda, it is to the detriment of those that come here for help.

Ouch! But then I already experienced that painful reality on my very first booking. Granted I needed a certain type of room in smaller supply but when I called at 7 months for an early December date, all the studios were booked. I had to fork over more points for a 1bedroom. (And at the same time I could have gotten a 1bedroom at BWV and VWL. SSR just had the only HA 1bedroom.)

That experience taught me not to count on availability at any resort inside of 7 months.

 

[tomandrobin]

Someone asked months ago whether they needed to book SSR for NYE at their 11 month window. The majority advised no, SSR was sooo big it would be available. I pm'd that person and told them to book it ASAP after reviewing the point chart and construction status. The 7 month window opened up late last week and SSR is sold out except for a few 1 bedroom units.

At peak times of the year, 11 month window is a must at all of the resorts. At off peak, between seasons there is availabitlity at all of the resorts, even the smaller resorts.

We were at SSR last week and I was surprised as to how active/busy the resort had felt. It was our 7 th trip to the resort. Even the AP and shop was active all day long. But even with the increase amount of members/guests at the resort, we had excellent service from all aspects of the staff and transportation.

 

[Dean]

Again I ask, percent of what exactly? ROOMS OCCUPIED or OWNERS OCCUPYING HOME RESORT. If it's the former then that is just proving my point that size matters. If it's the latter then it proves your point of resort preference.

To put it bluntly, I never questioned that there are always more rooms available at SSR. (That's one of the bonuses to owning there or liking that resort... you can reasonably expect last minute reservations.) I just consistently questioned the hypothesis that more SSR owners (percentage wise) prefer not to stay home as compared to the other DVC resorts.



For the acronym-challenged, what is BVTC?

The percentages were of rooms occupied, that's the industry definition of occupancy. They have a different term for how many people are using a given resort, I forget right now what it is. Whether the room has the 1 or the maximum, it's out of the mix at that point. However at or before the 7 month window, they are one and the same. After the 7 month window availability is still a reflection of the demand of a given resort/unit type but for the membership as a whole rather than just the owners there. And for some resorts that include SSR, that number will actually be misleading in the other direction from what you'd suggest since owners that couldn't get in at their first to third choice would end up staying at the resorts that do have availability.

BVTC is Buena Vista Trading company, it's essentially a timeshare trading company that DVC has set up. That's where you would trade directly with Club Intrawest or Club Cordial. While you may not have questioned that SSR was more available, some did, so I see that admission as progress.

 

[Dean]

I wonder why those that are so in tune with the occupancy and availability dont ever acknowledge the fact that SSR is a resort under construction I cannot believe they believe that SSR's availbility is not affected by newly constructed units being released to inventory.

Given the phase in there really are few units declared into inventory but not sold. It's not like it's 50% sold and 100% available. You can figure likely 2 or 3 extra units over what's been sold at most at a given time. I think it's basically done now but given that new members are more likely to use their resort early in their purchase I think it might be more available in the next few years than less. There will always be certain events where you must book ahead. The fact that the resort even got to the 7 month window with inventory is actually telling to me.

We were in Orlando a week ago (holiday weekend) and going through SSR several times , it looked like there were still at leas 2 buildings not being used. One was in the Grandstand and may not yet be opened though it looked completed from what I could see, the other was in the Carousel section. By contrast I know of a number of off site resorts that were completely full.

 

[RobDoc]

I looked, I can't find any of the documentation, maybe other old timers have that info still. The numbers that stick in my mind are 79% for OKW and 92% for BWV but they could be wrong and I'm sure they were seasonal and not for the year. Given they were for 10 years ago or more, I'm not sure it'd really mean anything anyway. ...

If it wouldn't mean anything then why even bring it up to defend a position?

I recall the numbers being higher for OKW and lower for BWV, but it was over 10 years ago - and BWV had only been open for a few months at that time (it opened in summer, 1996). OKW was about 75% sold out at that time. I would agree that the numbers probably don't mean anything at all, since neither resort was sold out and that the information is useless in any discussion about occupancy without using real numbers at resorts that are sold out.

 

[Granny]

Is this how "bashing" first begins?

Apparently, yes.

Sorry...couldn't resist it after reading the last few pages.

Still, though there has been spirited debate I don't see anything that I would classify as resort bashing.

 

[gkrykewy]

And by that testimonial I'd categorize you as a "resort enthusiast". Every resort will have them and that's fabulous. And to start, it is the resort enthusiasts who are the early buyers (within the first 6 months). But AKV will be selling for the next couple of years. That's where I expect we'll get the majority of ownership for the resort.

This is of course true, but it seems logical that AKV will have many more "resort enthusiast" buyers than other DVC resorts (with the possible exception of VWL) because of the resort's unique theming and the number of fans AKL has already. This would leave a smaller than typical share of units available for less-enthusiastic buyers over the next 1-2 years.

 

[jarestel]

It's OK to not like a resort, but when you ignore the facts and start lobbying against a resort to promote your own agenda, it is to the detriment of those that come here for help.

You've stated a very good definition for "bashing". Not liking a resort is one thing, but crusading in an attempt to sway the opinions of others or to convince those who enjoy a particular resort that they are wrong to do so would certainly fall under the category of resort bashing.

For the most part though, I think some are just too sensitive to criticisms of their "home" resort and leap to the defense of said resorts a bit too quickly. Correcting the facts is one thing, but debating opinions is an exercise in futility.

 

[fishermouse]

We were in Orlando a week ago (holiday weekend) and going through SSR several times , it looked like there were still at leas 2 buildings not being used. One was in the Grandstand and may not yet be opened though it looked completed from what I could see, the other was in the Carousel section. By contrast I know of a number of off site resorts that were completely full.

If any buildings were not being used it would be because they are not ready. They don't fill all the rooms in one building before filling rooms in another. They spread the people around, even in the slowest seasons there will be people in every open building. As far as I know all of Carousel is open. It can be hard to tell just how full SSR is, even when I knew it was booked and the pools etc are full, walking around it does not seem packed like the smaller resorts. Perhaps it's just the layout that makes it seem so quiet, part of why I like it. Contray to mony posts I have yet to find a DVC resort I don't like, guess I'll have to keep trying them all until I do.

 

[spiceycat]

This is of course true, but it seems logical that AKV will have many more "resort enthusiast" buyers than other DVC resorts (with the possible exception of VWL) because of the resort's unique theming and the number of fans AKL has already.

Every new resort has been bashed.

AKV will be.

lets see - it is too dark (VWL complain), the halls are too long (BWV complain), the views should be excellent - except of course for the parking lot view...., someone wanted to eat at Boma and couldn't easily get there.

of yea - there will a long list of complains about AKV - just like any other DVC resorts.

until CRV opens - then it will start with CRV.

 

[Anthony1971]

As far as I know all of the SSR buildings are open -the last was June 1st- I know the May 1st opened on May 1st as shorly after May 1st the deed for my add on was filed. What precent of SSR that is sold has to be added into this equation..... When I bought my add on I was told different UY had different availablity so a number could not even be derived form knowing my add on was in one of the last two buildings. As far as AKV having less of an effect as SSR I would question that as well as Disney is marketing DVC as being able to stay in all of these other resorts and with the opening of retail stores and more advertising than with SSR I would think the number of people buying AKV because that is what is for sale with intentions of staying elswehere will increase.
All of the resorts are a personal choice what any person will choose is a prediction at this point and will not be known until Disney stops building and then after a few years when the dust has settled one could say which resort is more popular than another at this point there are a lot of people who will explore all resorts which skew the numbers as you will with all new resorts (members).

 

[BroganMc]

The fact that the resort even got to the 7 month window with inventory is actually telling to me.

And my being able to book a 1bedroom at VWL and BWV last December during Adventure season (when both resorts are supposedly unbookable) means what exactly?

We were in Orlando a week ago (holiday weekend) and going through SSR several times , it looked like there were still at leas 2 buildings not being used. One was in the Grandstand and may not yet be opened though it looked completed from what I could see, the other was in the Carousel section. By contrast I know of a number of off site resorts that were completely full.

What time of day were you passing through? I spent quite a bit of time at SSR last month. Early morning (7am) saw full parking lots but only a few early risers walking around. 9am AP, the busses and common areas were suddenly filled with people. Past 10am it got to be dead again with parking lots and bus stops emptying. The quiet pools only had a few people in them, if any. HRS pool was the busiest. Around 4-6pm the busses started returning with more people and pools filled up. By 8-9pm the parking lots were full again.

I see the same thing at VWL, Contemporary, Polynesian and all the hotels. The one exception is the EPCOT resort area which I credit having the public boardwalk right under your feet. A lot of folks chose mid-day to visit the Boardwalk for lunch, activities, etc. Its an easy stroll from EPCOT.

As for buildings, the one not occupied last month was the last one set to open this month. It was blocked off at the parking lot. I don't think it was due to open until this week, after Memorial Weekend. I saw cars in every other lot and guests in rooms in every other building during my 8 days, depending on the time of day.

 

[BroganMc]

This is of course true, but it seems logical that AKV will have many more "resort enthusiast" buyers than other DVC resorts (with the possible exception of VWL) because of the resort's unique theming and the number of fans AKL has already. This would leave a smaller than typical share of units available for less-enthusiastic buyers over the next 1-2 years.

I think BCV, BWV, OKW, HHI, VB and yes even SSR enthusiasts might beg to differ.

While AKV has a specific theme as does VWL, so does BCV, BWV, OKW, etc.
The trouble when being an enthusiast for a theme is that we often overlook that it is just one theme to be enthusiastic about. What Disney does best is theming and everything has a theme to appeal to someone. I know I love SSR's health spa resort feel... all those scenic walkways along lakes, golf courses and urban areas.

 

[UConnJack]

BCV and BWV are uniquely connected, but SSR, for example, is only marginally more 'walkable' in terms of connectivity than AKV. It's a fairly enormous walking distance from one side of the resort to the other, let alone to DTD. It's at least multimodal in that it has boat access, however.

AKL is one resort where the theming greatly (and uniquely) benefits from comparative isolation, and the theming is its main selling point.

Exactly. With all due respect to BroganMc, I personally find SSR's location useless, and find it as isolated and remote from my desired destinations at WDW as anywhere. Much of SSR is remote from it's own resort center for that matter. AKL may be pretty far from MK, but the 20 minute bus ride is not unmanageable. EPCOT and MGM are no further away from AKL than BCV/BWV/OKW/SSR are from AK and MK, and AKL is a 5 minute ride to AK. So I personally don't find it's location any more burdensome than any other resort overall as a whole, certainly no more than OKW and SSR which are a moderate buss ride away from the parks too. Plus AKL (and soon AKV) are destinations in themselves, and much more interesting (IMHO) than most other resorts and DVC's.

Don't get me wrong, I like staying OKW, and am warming up to SSR a LITTLE (although I still don't foresee wanting/needing to stay there again). But I think AKV is going to be my new "relaxing" DVC once it's up in full operation.

 

[UConnJack]

More AKV owners probably also will see SSR & OKW as an upgrade compared to BCV & BWV owners who see it as a downgrade simply because of the walkable amenities. (AKV owners will be comparing to what they have at home, just as BCV & BWV owners do.)

I don't know if I would use the terms upgrade and downgrade here. I doubt most AKV owners are going to consider OKW or SSR an "upgrade". Content with the trade, yes, but upgrade is implying they don't care for AKV and would rather stay elsewhere. And we all know the only SSR owners do that....(sorry, couldn't resist).

And being a BWV owner, I never looked at my OKW stays as a "downgrade" either. Just something different that suited that particular trip.

 

[Dean]

And my being able to book a 1bedroom at VWL and BWV last December during Adventure season (when both resorts are supposedly unbookable) means what exactly?

As I've said before, I don't think Dec is as difficult as some think but I'd agree it is the overall process for the busier times that will be telling.

What time of day were you passing through? I spent quite a bit of time at SSR last month. Early morning (7am) saw full parking lots but only a few early risers walking around. 9am AP, the busses and common areas were suddenly filled with people. Past 10am it got to be dead again with parking lots and bus stops emptying. The quiet pools only had a few people in them, if any. HRS pool was the busiest. Around 4-6pm the busses started returning with more people and pools filled up. By 8-9pm the parking lots were full again.

I see the same thing at VWL, Contemporary, Polynesian and all the hotels. The one exception is the EPCOT resort area which I credit having the public boardwalk right under your feet. A lot of folks chose mid-day to visit the Boardwalk for lunch, activities, etc. Its an easy stroll from EPCOT.

As for buildings, the one not occupied last month was the last one set to open this month. It was blocked off at the parking lot. I don't think it was due to open until this week, after Memorial Weekend. I saw cars in every other lot and guests in rooms in every other building during my 8 days, depending on the time of day.

We were through there 4 times at various times of the day as early as 8:3o and as late as 7 PM but not late night. I'm accustomed to the lots varying with the day but to be totally empty in contrast to the rest caught my attention. I assumed the one in grandstand simply hadn't opened yet but couldn't explain why the other one looked empty. By empty I mean there wasn't a single car in the lot 3 of the 4 times we were through there and was only 1 the other time and it was back away from the building. Maybe it just looked that way or possibly was due to exchange points not rented as cash for that weekend time.