Is this breaking copyright laws?

torinsmom

<font color=red>I have someone coming to scoop<br>
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
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So, if I buy white Disney shirts from the Disney store, then tie-dye and sell them, would that be illegal? I obviously don't want to break any laws. I am thinking it would be okay, since I have paid for the item, but not sure about whether "altering" it would be a problem. I haven't done any of this yet, but just love tie-dyes and Disney, so it would be a good combo.
 
So, if I buy white Disney shirts from the Disney store, then tie-dye and sell them, would that be illegal? I obviously don't want to break any laws. I am thinking it would be okay, since I have paid for the item, but not sure about whether "altering" it would be a problem. I haven't done any of this yet, but just love tie-dyes and Disney, so it would be a good combo.

You might try posting this over on the DIS Creativity Board, as that's where the tie dyers are. They might have already looked into this issue.

http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=45&f=40

I would think if you clearly state in your description that they are official Disney T-shirts from the Disney Store, the logos & images are not reproductions made by you, that altering them may be okay.

However, you aren't a licensed reseller of Disney products. And you'd be profiting off of Disney. I'm not sure how/if people are able sell Disney stuff on eBay. :confused3
 
I don't know if you can do it or not, but "copyright" is not what you'd be worried about.

Maybe licensing agreements, or trademark protection?

(I love the idea of a tie-dyed Disney T)
 

I don't know if you can do it or not, but "copyright" is not what you'd be worried about.

Maybe licensing agreements, or trademark protection?

(I love the idea of a tie-dyed Disney T)
Yeah, I don't know why they don't sell them somewhere. We got Mickey hed tie dyes off etsy(yes, several people sell them there) and we got SO many comments. These are the ones we bought
IMG_5141.jpg


I am looking more at just tie dying white t-shirts with characters on them.
 
You may want to call a lawyer and ask. A friend of mine got into and is in serious legal problems over a similar thing. Not Disney related.
 
The answer is that there's likely no clear-cut answer. Copyrights wouldn't be an issue. The "First-Sale Doctrine" limits a copyright holder exclusive rights to the first sale of a copyrighted item. With some legal exceptions like software (which is "licensed" instead of "sold"), as long as you legally obtain a copyrighted work, you are allowed to re-sell it. What you might have a problem with is trademark law. I assume the shirts will have Disney trademarked tags in them. Disney could object to your sale of the altered shirts by claiming that they would create confusion on the part of consumers as to who made the final product or that Disney had endorsed your work. Whether they would win in court would depend on their ability to convince a judge or jury, but some have fought The Mouse and won.
 
How is this any different than me buying a Disney shirt, wearing it, and then selling it in a garage sale? Even if I altered it (cut out sleeves, etc.) I have the right to resell what I paid for?
 
How is this any different than me buying a Disney shirt, wearing it, and then selling it in a garage sale? Even if I altered it (cut out sleeves, etc.) I have the right to resell what I paid for?
Because selling it as a used shirt would be covered by the First-Sale Doctrine and is perfectly OK. Taking a new shirt, tie-dying it, and selling it as a new shirt would make it a "derivative work" sold using Disney trademarks.
 
How is this any different than me buying a Disney shirt, wearing it, and then selling it in a garage sale? Even if I altered it (cut out sleeves, etc.) I have the right to resell what I paid for?

What you are talking about is a different situation.

The OP said she wanted to buy a bunch with the express purpose to sell them. In a later post she also mentioned Etsy.com, which is the site for selling handmade products.

If she bought a bunch and advertised them at Etsy or eBay, it would appear that her intent is to profit off of them as a business venture. She'd be profiting off the Disney logo, brand & trademark. She didn't just happen to have a few shirts, like in your example. Presumably also, if you advertise your shirt on eBay, you'd also be advertising other different, NON-Disney items to make back some money. So you might have a business, but not one TO sell Disney altered products.

The "hidden" Mickey head t-shirts she posted & bought and have seen sold on Etsy probably can't be trademarked. The silhouette of Mickey is probably too vague to trademark. That shape sometimes is naturally occurring. There is a member here who has a hidden Mickey shaped as a rock in her signature. Another one has it as an impression in the sand.

The OP should be asking why IS there ONLY the tie dye t-shirts of the hidden Mickey and by many people, but NOT any with actual characters on them? No offense, but she's probably not the first one to have come up with that idea. Maybe others have already found out they can't make & sell any with the characters.

OP, why don't you PM Lovestoscrap? She is a Mod on the Creativity Board & the Arts & Crafts Board I mentioned earlier. Or PM FeralPeg. She used to sell Disney stuff in gift baskets. She might know what the regulations are on reselling Disney stuff.
 
A friend of mine took a photo of Cinderellas Castle with the fireworks above it and made it into an iphone case and tried to sell it. The website he was selling from wouldnt let him and canceled orders of people who bought it because of licensing. I dont know if this would be the same thing or not
 
What you are talking about is a different situation.

The OP said she wanted to buy a bunch with the express purpose to sell them. In a later post she also mentioned Etsy.com, which is the site for selling handmade products.

If she bought a bunch and advertised them at Etsy or eBay, it would appear that her intent is to profit off of them as a business venture. She'd be profiting off the Disney logo, brand & trademark. She didn't just happen to have a few shirts, like in your example. Presumably also, if you advertise your shirt on eBay, you'd also be advertising other different, NON-Disney items to make back some money. So you might have a business, but not one TO sell Disney altered products.

The "hidden" Mickey head t-shirts she posted & bought and have seen sold on Etsy probably can't be trademarked. The silhouette of Mickey is probably too vague to trademark. That shape sometimes is naturally occurring. There is a member here who has a hidden Mickey shaped as a rock in her signature. Another one has it as an impression in the sand.

The OP should be asking why IS there ONLY the tie dye t-shirts of the hidden Mickey and by many people, but NOT any with actual characters on them? No offense, but she's probably not the first one to have come up with that idea. Maybe others have already found out they can't make & sell any with the characters.

OP, why don't you PM Lovestoscrap? She is a Mod on the Creativity Board & the Arts & Crafts Board I mentioned earlier. Or PM FeralPeg. She used to sell Disney stuff in gift baskets. She might know what the regulations are on reselling Disney stuff.

Not planning on etsy or ebay. I was thinking along the lines of the flea market where I am going to sell my regular tie dyes. I just posted the shirts we BOUGHT on etsy. Not really a big deal anyway. It would not be a lot of shirts even if I did it. I may try the idea on some shirts for myself, like maybe a red and black pattern on a Mickey Mouse shirt or pick and lavendar for Piglet.The Disney Store shirts are too expensive anyway. I would never make a profit.
 
As someone mentioned, I used to sell gift basket containing Disney products. It was not a problem for me to put them in my baskets and resell them, but I only charged for the merchandise what I paid for it. My only profit came from the fee I received to do the shopping, construct the basket and deliver it. I could not put anything in my baskets where I created a Disney copyrighted character. I checked with a lawyer before I began my business and this was what I was told.

During the time I owned my gift basket company, I heard nothing from Disney as to what I was doing. However, when I closed my business and went to work for the Disney Florist, the Disney lawyers were very much aware of my endeavor. I had to agree not to do anything, going forward for a period of time, that would compete with the business of the Disney Florist.

So, they are watching for this sort of thing. I think some of the people on Etsy.com are walking a fine line with Disney.

OP, I think what you are thinking of doing is a bit risky, but I'd contact a lawyer specializing in trademark law before taking the next step just to be sure.
 
As someone mentioned, I used to sell gift basket containing Disney products. It was not a problem for me to put them in my baskets and resell them, but I only charged for the merchandise what I paid for it. My only profit came from the fee I received to do the shopping, construct the basket and deliver it. I could not put anything in my baskets where I created a Disney copyrighted character. I checked with a lawyer before I began my business and this was what I was told.

During the time I owned my gift basket company, I heard nothing from Disney as to what I was doing. However, when I closed my business and went to work for the Disney Florist, the Disney lawyers were very much aware of my endeavor. I had to agree not to do anything, going forward for a period of time, that would compete with the business of the Disney Florist.

So, they are watching for this sort of thing. I think some of the people on Etsy.com are walking a fine line with Disney.

OP, I think what you are thinking of doing is a bit risky, but I'd contact a lawyer specializing in trademark law before taking the next step just to be sure.

I thought I had read here a long while ago that Disney hires people to scour the Internet, flea markets & craft fairs, school fairs, etc. around the country to help report when people are making & selling Disney items. That's how we all know Disney really cracks down on this type of stuff. That they don't just send cease & desist letters, but crack down with monetary penalties. :scratchin

Here's thread from a while back where a poster posted that Rosetta Stone went after her for inadvertently selling pirated Rosetta Stone products. They told her how much they could take her to court for each item, then settled for $1000.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=41103918#post41103918


Torinsmom, there shouldn't be a problem of you making tie dyeing your own shirts for you & your family to wear, even at the flea markets. Bit make it clear you are not selling them.

Maybe you could offer a service, like Feralpeg did, where THEY buy their own Disney shirts at the Disney store and you'd be happy to tie dye the shirts for them. Make it clear that you'd be charging for the tie dye service only.

Of course you'd have to write up a disclaimer & agreement that states they bought their own shirts and you are not responsible for how the dye job turns out. If they don't like the dye job, they still bought the service. Although, if you accidentally splash die all over his face so that he looks like he's been punched black & blue, you might want to eat the expense of buying them a new shirt.

Of course, consult a lawyer if you can even offer dyeing services.
 
OP, people sell Disney items they make themselves all the time. I sew and do machine embroidery. My machine is made by Brother who is authorized to sell Disney designs however, I cannot sell any of the items I make. My dealer told me that he personally knows a woman who Disney caught selling items. They brought her to court and confiscated her machine. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. A DIS member had a site with designs she made. There was a button for contributions. Disney found out and she is now forbidden by Disney to create any more Disney designs even those she'd give away for free. For some reason Disney is very selective in who they prosecute but when they do go after someone, they don't tread lightly.
 
A friend of mine took a photo of Cinderellas Castle with the fireworks above it and made it into an iphone case and tried to sell it. The website he was selling from wouldnt let him and canceled orders of people who bought it because of licensing. I dont know if this would be the same thing or not
What your friend ran into was more of a "better safe than sorry" reaction from the website as opposed to a certain violation of law. Generally speaking, while the design of a building can certainly be copyrighted (post-1990) and a distinctive building can be used as a trademark (ex., the castle at the start of Disney films) case law doesn't offer rights holders blanket protection when it comes to photographic use of such buildings.

The most recent case regarding this was the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland in 1996. The HoF tried to sue a photographer for selling postcards and posters of the distinctive landmark. The HoF claimed trademark infringement because they do use the building shape as one of their trademarked logos. A judge in a lower court sided with the HoF, but a majority on the Court of Appeals sided with the photographer. The majority of judges pointed to the standard that a trademark's use must be consistent and since the HoF itself had sold lots of posters, t-shirts, and other trinkets with a variety of different depictions and views that they had undercut their claim that any use of the building itself was a "trademark". In essence, they merely felt the photo was only of an well-known publicly accessible building. They even found his inclusion of the trademarked "Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame" on the poster "fair use" since it merely described what was depicted in the photo.

Does this mean that Cindy's Castle is "fair game" for any for-profit usage? No, but it also doesn't mean that all uses are verboten either given that Disney's use of the structure is akin to the RnRHoF's use of their building. In matters of copyright and trademark, it all boils down to a judge/jury weighing a variety of factors in court. But often times, place like your friend's website would rather avoid any legal entanglements and costs and just say "No".
 
Not planning on etsy or ebay. I was thinking along the lines of the flea market where I am going to sell my regular tie dyes. I just posted the shirts we BOUGHT on etsy. Not really a big deal anyway. It would not be a lot of shirts even if I did it. I may try the idea on some shirts for myself, like maybe a red and black pattern on a Mickey Mouse shirt or pick and lavendar for Piglet.The Disney Store shirts are too expensive anyway. I would never make a profit.


It may still not be allowed. We sell at several craft shows (handmade crafts) and several of them have listed in their rules that that prohibit the sale of fleece blankets(pillows, jackets...), anything that includes a trademarked item (ie...a wreath with "Chicago Bears ornaments) and things like that because the items were originally sold to be used be used for personal use and not for resale.
 
What your friend ran into was more of a "better safe than sorry" reaction from the website as opposed to a certain violation of law. Generally speaking, while the design of a building can certainly be copyrighted (post-1990) and a distinctive building can be used as a trademark (ex., the castle at the start of Disney films) case law doesn't offer rights holders blanket protection when it comes to photographic use of such buildings.

The most recent case regarding this was the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland in 1996. The HoF tried to sue a photographer for selling postcards and posters of the distinctive landmark. The HoF claimed trademark infringement because they do use the building shape as one of their trademarked logos. A judge in a lower court sided with the HoF, but a majority on the Court of Appeals sided with the photographer. The majority of judges pointed to the standard that a trademark's use must be consistent and since the HoF itself had sold lots of posters, t-shirts, and other trinkets with a variety of different depictions and views that they had undercut their claim that any use of the building itself was a "trademark". In essence, they merely felt the photo was only of an well-known publicly accessible building. They even found his inclusion of the trademarked "Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame" on the poster "fair use" since it merely described what was depicted in the photo.

Does this mean that Cindy's Castle is "fair game" for any for-profit usage? No, but it also doesn't mean that all uses are verboten either given that Disney's use of the structure is akin to the RnRHoF's use of their building. In matters of copyright and trademark, it all boils down to a judge/jury weighing a variety of factors in court. But often times, place like your friend's website would rather avoid any legal entanglements and costs and just say "No".

There may be a difference here, too, in the location. Copyright law allows photographic depictions of buildings visible from public spaces. I don't know about the RnRHoF, but Cinderella's Castle is not visible from a public space, so the laws may protect Disney more here, because of the requirement to pay for access to see the castle. I'm going to have to go back and look at my park ticket to see if it notes anything about using photos taken on Disney property for commercial use.
 
Copyright law allows photographic depictions of buildings visible from public spaces. I don't know about the RnRHoF, but Cinderella's Castle is not visible from a public space, so the laws may protect Disney more here, because of the requirement to pay for access to see the castle.
It's a moot point for the castle, per US law copyright protection is only given to architectural structures completed after December 1, 1990.
 
There may be a difference here, too, in the location. Copyright law allows photographic depictions of buildings visible from public spaces. I don't know about the RnRHoF, but Cinderella's Castle is not visible from a public space, so the laws may protect Disney more here, because of the requirement to pay for access to see the castle. I'm going to have to go back and look at my park ticket to see if it notes anything about using photos taken on Disney property for commercial use.

The person taking the picture owns the copyright. However, since the picture was taken from Disney property Disney controls the use of the picture.

A common example used is if you took a picture of a house while standing on the owners property he can prevent you from using it even though you own the copyright. If you take a picture of the house while standing in the public street you can do whatever you want without getting the owners permission.

Crazy, isn't it.
 















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