Is there such a thing as a non-evangelical Christian church?

[my4kids]

Please don't assume that I am saying that one has to stay the religion they were taught or else they were not educated properly. You still worship a good and higher power than yourself, you are not worshipping worldly things (I assume). I was in no way stating that someone has to be Christian to be educated in religion. I think in my non poetic way , I am saying that they were taught faith. How to know or feel there is a higher power at work.

Anyway, about the post about the atheist who can't believe what she can't see. I personally am always so amazed when someone states this. I just can't imagine thinking that all life and oceans and mountains just "got here" I understand evolution and scientific facts. But what put the thing here that we evolved from? and then it always goes back to the "big bang" theory. Thats fine, I can buy that too, but what caused the big bang? Not trying to preach, but it just seems obvious to me there is something greater than at work. i can't imagine denying there is ANY higher power.

Jenny, that is what I meant ....not that she would become a Christian, just acknowedge a higher power of some sort.......

Guys you all forget that I was the one that does not like people telling me I'm not saved because of my religion...I'm not trying to convert or even evangelize here...just spouting the way I see things.

 

[goofygirl]

Whoa, wait a second here. I've had plenty of religious education and I still don't believe. Telling me that god exists and loves me is like telling me there's a hippo in my living room. You can show me books that say so, have me talk to people who believe likewise, show me entire countries that have been founded on there being a hippo in my living room, but when it comes down to it, I just don't see the darn hippo. Going to college for hippo viewing isn't going to make me see that hippo.
On the other hand, if I believe that there might be a hippo, and everyone around me is claiming the hippo is doing amazing things in my living room, for the sake of not feeling left out I just might say that I see it. In fact, with time, I might truly believe it. The mind is a wonderous thing, you know. The placebo effect, and what not.
Who's right?

Do you believe in other things you can't see, say like, paranormal stuff (hauntings, psychic powers, ESP, etc)?
I generally believe that you have to see something to believe it, but I do think there's some exceptions to the rule. I am not saying you are wrong, I'm just giving another point of view. I do know where you are coming from, since in my life I've been an athiest, a non practicing Jew, a "New Ager" and finally an Episcopalian Christian. I've seen it from all sides!

 

[U2_rocks!]

[/B]



Jenny, that is what I meant ....not that she would become a Christian, just acknowedge a higher power of some sort.......

Guys you all forget that I was the one that does not like people telling me I'm not saved because of my religion...I'm not trying to convert or even evangelize here...just spouting the way I see things.

It is possible to believe in a higher power yet not believe in the way it is described by most of the major religions. The picture of God that is portrayed, and the whole Heaven thing (and what people are supposed to do to get into Heaven) just doesn't ring true for me in my heart. I don't like to call my version of higher power "God", b/c it sounds too much like a human-like entity, and I don't think of it that way at all. But I will call it God for the sake of argument.

I feel God all around in nature, in me. I can believe that we all exist in some spiritual way, and that life on earth is just one journey. On the other hand, I can also believe that once we die it is over for us. What I cannot believe in is a Heaven where we will all be reunited with our loved ones and Jesus, Mary and the Saints! It just doesn't make as much sense to me as the other ideas. But those who are actively working towards getting into Heaven needn't feel sorry for me - I feel no need to develop a relationship with your idea of God, and I feel no need to be in your idea of Heaven after death. And if I'm not there, more room for you!

I don't worship "things" on earth. I think love for each other, cooperation, friendship, peace and harmony are very important. I think we need to take care of our precious earth, or it won't be a fit place for our descendants to live. But none of that has anything to do with there being a God or not. It has to do with quality of life, and "things" cannot make us happier than "people" unless our relationships with people have gotten so bad that we prefer our own company and that of our pets. Unfortunately I think a lot of people have let their lives become more about "things", sometimes because their relationships with people have been very disappointing.

If what you believe in makes you a happier person, then that's great! But please don't assume that I would be as happy as you if I believed what you do - the things I believe are what ring true for me, and for me to change my mind I would have to experience something that changed my whole world view. It wouldn't be enough just to give me religious instruction of one kind or another. Besides, which religious instruction would I take? Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist? They are all very well recognized and widespread, they all have their own reason for being, and can all be supported by various historical writings and teachings. There is no way a Christian can prove to me that their way of thinking is the correct one. I'd have to study all the major schools of thought in order for me to decide, and that could take me the rest of my life. That's something that you really have to be "called" to do i.e. there has to be a yearning for knowledge and something to believe in. I don't have that yearning, I am happy with my own beliefs, and I can live with the consequences of being wrong.

 

[my4kids]

Well I you opinion is rather offensive, and IMO, you should be ashamed of yourself.

It's obvious what you are implying and it's pretty damn rude.

 

[Buckalew11]

my4kids can obviously correct me but that is what I'm interpertering her words to mean.

I spent 12 years in Catholic school. I sat in Church every sunday. My parents and grandparents all have discussed their belief Christianity with me. It still makes NO sense to me. I can't explain it except to say that my whole self is screaming out that something is wrong.

When I really look with my heart, I feel that Judaism makes sense for me. Something about it seems right. It seems peaceful, comfortable, like home.

I haven't started the offical conversion process but I have started learning more through the local JCC. It has ignited a firestorm w/in my family so I think that is why I've been extra sensitive to some of this stuff.

One religion doesn't make since for a lot of people. I get frustrated by the "Christianity made me so happy and I want you to be that happy so you should be Christian" arguement. For 30 years I did Christianity and it didn't make me happy. I never got this feeling. I felt more like this It is insulting when people say you just weren't doing it right. Or you weren't educated properly because if you were you would have loved it.

I still don't know what my religious future holds but I'm glad I'm able to explore completely different faiths.

I just want you to know that your internal struggle is shared by many. Personally, I would never say "Christianity made me so happy..."
It doesn't.
I wouldn't even use the word "happy". And maybe I am the odd man out with this. Maybe many Christians do feel "happy".

Being a Christian, for me, is the fact that I have a personal relationship with God through Christ. And yes, I said and mean personal which I realize a lot of people think is werd, impossible and self righteous--whatever.
It is personal.
It doesn't really bring me happiness though. It does bring me joy which I think is very different from happiness. It brings me peace which is far better for me, personally. I struggle with anxiety and so peace would mean a lot to someone who has those issues.
It doesn't make my life a bed of roses though. Life isn't grand every hour of every day. In the end, I can look at life's ups and downs and know that God is there with me every step of the way and there comes that peace again...

I would love to be one of those people who thinks that the Christian life is all hunky-dory, but I am not. But I think some Christians give off the signals or even say things like, "Well, if you were doing the Christian life right, you wouldn't be struggling with any of those issues. You'd be like me, perfect!".

Well, I'm not perfect. I carry guilt around too often, I struggle with God loving me no matter what I do (right or wrong, He still loves me the same), Being good enough to be worthy of His Love...
I do believe that all these types of issues are part of the my Christian walk with God and I should learn and grow from them. But life isn't perfect, no matter what you believe or who you believe in... so the struggle continues.

I do hope that as you progress in your search for God that you will find peace and Love and that your family will be a help and not a hinderance in your own personal journey.

 

[goofy's friends]

I just want you to know that your internal struggle is shared by many. Personally, I would never say "Christianity made me so happy..."
It doesn't.
I wouldn't even use the word "happy". And maybe I am the odd man out with this. Maybe many Christians do feel "happy".

Being a Christian, for me, is the fact that I have a personal relationship with God through Christ. And yes, I said and mean personal which I realize a lot of people think is werd, impossible and self righteous--whatever.
It is personal.
It doesn't really bring me happiness though. It does bring me joy which I think is very different from happiness. It brings me peace which is far better for me, personally. I struggle with anxiety and so peace would mean a lot to someone who has those issues.
It doesn't make my life a bed of roses though. Life isn't grand every hour of every day. In the end, I can look at life's ups and downs and know that God is there with me every step of the way and there comes that peace again...

I would love to be one of those people who thinks that the Christian life is all hunky-dory, but I am not. But I think some Christians give off the signals or even say things like, "Well, if you were doing the Christian life right, you wouldn't be struggling with any of those issues. You'd be like me, perfect!".

Well, I'm not perfect. I carry guilt around too often, I struggle with God loving me no matter what I do (right or wrong, He still loves me the same), Being good enough to be worthy of His Love...
I do believe that all these types of issues are part of the my Christian walk with God and I should learn and grow from them. But life isn't perfect, no matter what you believe or who you believe in... so the struggle continues.

I do hope that as you progress in your search for God that you will find peace and Love and that your family will be a help and not a hinderance in your own personal journey.

Very well said, Brenda!

 

[JennyMominRI]

[/B]



Jenny, that is what I meant ....not that she would become a Christian, just acknowedge a higher power of some sort.......

Guys you all forget that I was the one that does not like people telling me I'm not saved because of my religion...I'm not trying to convert or even evangelize here...just spouting the way I see things.

I was just curious..Please don't take that as a personal dig..I do know some people who truly think that I really must not have given Christianity or G-d a chance at all because I am no longer Christian...I'm not angry at those people.. I know they honestly don't understandhow someone could ever want to leave what they view as the perfect spiritual home..They also see My conversion to Judaism as a sign that I feel there is something *bad* about their religion.. I just wondered where you fall

 

[Buckalew11]

Jenny,
I said it before but it bears repeating...I think the way you post is very respectful and sincere. I enjoy your posts because I feel like I could ask you just about anything and you would not belittle me or get angry with any question. Such an oddity on the DIS, really and I appreciate you being that way. It allows us to really learn. Thanks for that!

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny,
I said it before but it bears repeating...I think the way you post is very respectful and sincere. I enjoy your posts because I feel like I could ask you just about anything and you would not belittle me or get angry with any question. Such an oddity on the DIS, really and I appreciate you being that way. It allows us to really learn. Thanks for that!

I appreciate that..I will admit that I am know to come back and edit posts because I'm afraid of coming off the wrong way..As I've said before,II am NEVER out to convert.. I know how joyous it was for me to finally find my spiritual home and I would never wish to try and pull someone from theirs. In fact I feel it would be bordering on sinful to be stumbling block on someone elses path. I realize that there is more than one way to interprit most bible verses and I post a Jews POV ,not to convert or cast doubt on peoples own belief ,but to show that we have a reason for viewing things the way we do,just like a Christian does..We are not uneduacted idiots who have never studied the bible..I also think it's fun to learn about others beliefs

 

[Buckalew11]

I think it is fun and interesting also. And since I do not know a single Jewish person in my small, southern city, this is a just an opportunity to learn from someone. I can surely go and read books and internet sites about different topics but to me it more fun this way as long as people are respectful.

I know you speak very matter of factly and say what you think etc. and I just like that about your posts really. At first, someone might take it wrong but I haven't ever seen you post in a rude way. We can all be taken the wrong way (& are, I am sure). I love your posting style on these threads. Just want you to know that.

 

[goofygirl]

I was just curious..Please don't take that as a personal dig..I do know some people who truly think that I really must not have given Christianity or G-d a chance at all because I am no longer Christian...I'm not angry at those people.. I know they honestly don't understandhow someone could ever want to leave what they view as the perfect spiritual home..They also see My conversion to Judaism as a sign that I feel there is something *bad* about their religion.. I just wondered where you fall

I want to second this thought. Leaving one religion for another does not mean that you have something against your former faith. It simply just means that its not right for you.

I make this comparison all the time and I think we've all been through this:

You go on a date with someone. You know this person is not "the one" and you just don't "feel it". You don't have anything against this person, there's nothing really bad about them, and you don't really DISLIKE the person, but you know something is just not clicking.


It's the same with a faith. You either "click" with it or you don't.

Since my background and heritage is Jewish I tried the faith and it just did not click. When I found the Episcopal faith, I knew it was the one for me. It does not mean I have anything against Jews, why would I? They are part of my heritage and nothing is going to change that!

 

[MzDiz]

Do you believe in other things you can't see, say like, paranormal stuff (hauntings, psychic powers, ESP, etc)?
I generally believe that you have to see something to believe it, but I do think there's some exceptions to the rule. I am not saying you are wrong, I'm just giving another point of view. I do know where you are coming from, since in my life I've been an athiest, a non practicing Jew, a "New Ager" and finally an Episcopalian Christian. I've seen it from all sides!

I don't believe in them and I don't disbelieve in them either. It's the same thing with god. I haven't met god, I haven't felt god, I'm not saying that there *isn't* a god, but I refuse to say that there is one.
I've lived my life to be kind, compassionate, generous, and loving, and if I end up in hell because I didn't believe that some book, written by men, was the thing I was supposed to be living my life by, well, god's not so wonderful.

 

[newman7501]

I don't believe in them and I don't disbelieve in them either. It's the same thing with god. I haven't met god, I haven't felt god, I'm not saying that there *isn't* a god, but I refuse to say that there is one.
I've lived my life to be kind, compassionate, generous, and loving, and if I end up in hell because I didn't believe that some book, written by men, was the thing I was supposed to be living my life by, well, god's not so wonderful.

Many Christians as well as I believe that the Bible was not written by men but instead that God influenced human authors divinely in such a way that what they wrote was truly the word of God.
part of 2 Timothy 3:16 says: All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
We don't follow man's writings but instead what God has called us to live by.

 

[FreshTressa]

Woot...this is officially the longest thread I have started.

 

[MzDiz]

Many Christians as well as I believe that the Bible was not written by men but instead that God influenced human authors divinely in such a way that what they wrote was truly the word of God.
part of 2 Timothy 3:16 says: All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
We don't follow man's writings but instead what God has called us to live by.

You've got to understand though, from an outside, non-christian viewpoint, that has about as much validity as unicorns and leprechans. Besides, being inspired by god is different than taking dictation from god, KWIM? Trees inspired Joyce Kilmer to write a poem, the trees didn't tell her what to write though.

But this could take this thread on a whole new tangent. A tangent that the DIS is familiar with, but a tangent none the less.

 

[newman7501]

You've got to understand though, from an outside, non-christian viewpoint, that has about as much validity as unicorns and leprechans. Besides, being inspired by god is different than taking dictation from god, KWIM? Trees inspired Joyce Kilmer to write a poem, the trees didn't tell her what to write though.

But this could take this thread on a whole new tangent. A tangent that the DIS is familiar with, but a tangent none the less.

No I completely understand what you are saying I just wanted you know what the majority of Christians believe. Being divinely inspired is basically taking dictation from God, to put it in those terms. There have been too many fulfilled prophecies for me to believe otherwise. But that is just my beliefs. I don't want to go off on a tangent, I just wrote that so you know what we believe as I understand what you are saying to

 

[TruBlu]

Hi everyone!
I just wanted to post something for anyone interested....
I'm reading this great book by Lee Strobel. The title is "The Case for a Creator". It examines scientific evidence that points to the existence of a Creator. I'm only about half way thru, but so far I have been amazed at what the experts that he interviewed have to say.