Is the "problem" that DVC is a CRO Bust?

[salmoneous]

However, I would just point out that the file date on the above linked pdf is 5/9/2006. You can check the properties on it easily enough. So everything in that file was "done"/"changed"/"modified" before that date. Whether it was made public at that point, or 6 weeks later, or what...I don't know (or really care).

First of all, I apologize to everyone for being cranky in this threat the past few posts. I don't know why I got off on the dinning plan tangent. Why do we get so worked up about these things.

Second, so I got a bit obsessive and tried to figure out exactly when the new brochure was published. Found a thread from 5/30 - 5/31 2006 where people were clearly arguing from the old brochure. And a thread from 6/30/2006 where people mention the new brochure. So sometime in June you would expect there to have been a "NEW DINING PLAN BROCHURE" thread, but I can't find it. If anyone is really, really board, good luck finding that thread.

Third, hmm, anyway to get this back on track and on topic.... we'll to tie it all together, Disney doesn't our points, so the DVC trading options are getting less and less worthwhile. And the DDP is clearly getting less and less worthwhile. But, as we always tell people, the "perks" aren't good reasons to buy into DVC. It's all about vacations in DVC resorts. If the program is worthwhile for that - we should all be happy. Right?

 

[tjkraz]

Let me put a positive spin on this

I think the $95 is simply because hotel costs (for everyone) are going through the going way up. Just like DVC told us they would. Why should DVC people staying at WDW hotels not have to pay more as well.

Increases in the nightly points are expected. But this move will particularly hurt those who want to use their points for a quick "fix" at one of the non-DVCs.

The fee is $95 per reservation whether you are booking 10 consecutive nights or just one night. That fee spread over a 5 or 7-night stay isn't terribly bad. But for those with a pattern of staying just a night or two, the fee hurts a little more.

 

[JimMIA]

First of all, I apologize to everyone for being cranky in this threat the past few posts. I don't know why I got off on the dinning plan tangent. Why do we get so worked up about these things.

I will join my pal Sal in apologizing for being cranky. I'm personally having a wonderful week -- so I don't know what triggered me to respond as I did. I didn't realize DDP was so near and dear to all of our hearts, but apparently it is.

I think Sal is right, and we should all get back to the original topic -- which WAS a pretty interesting question, BTW.

 

[crisi]

Third, hmm, anyway to get this back on track and on topic.... we'll to tie it all together, Disney doesn't our points, so the DVC trading options are getting less and less worthwhile. And the DDP is clearly getting less and less worthwhile. But, as we always tell people, the "perks" aren't good reasons to buy into DVC. It's all about vacations in DVC resorts. If the program is worthwhile for that - we should all be happy. Right?

Well...that's what WE bought for, so we stay pretty happy no matter what happens with non-DVC options. But LOTS of people bought because DVC guides sold them on the idea that they could vacation LOTS of places.

Its still the basics - if you can plan ahead, if you bought where you want to stay (or at least don't mind ending up), if you use your points primarily for DVC, if you didn't buy for perks or expecting special treatment, understand the difference between DVC and a hotel reservation, if you can afford it and want to make the commitment to WDW - its a good program. Start straying from the basics and changes are going to have more impact for you - maybe enough that it isn't a good program for you anymore.

 

[Beca]

I'm not going to chime in on the DDP conversation but on the older CRO one instead. I would never pay for a DVC unit at the rates they are asking. You don't get the same benefits a DVC member does, you don't get the same benefits other guests staying at a true deluxe do yet you get to pay some pretty hefty rates. Fix that discrepancy and you might get a solid rate of cash bookings to support member trade outs.

How do you fix it? Give cash guests something unique while permitting DVC'ers to buy it for a small fee. Maybe a concierge-like service in one of the buildings over in SSR...perhaps the one with the model units so you can pitch DVC at the same time. Or allow cash guests access to the same spa discount DVC'ers have. Free horse and buggy rides. A special happy hour over at the Turf Club with coupon discounts for cash guests.

I am not sure what "benefits" you are speaking of (that DVCer's get, and cash guests do not)...maybe the free valet parking, and DVC member discounts? I kind of see those as a "Thank you for spending tens of thousands of dollars" kind of thing. Personally, I do not think one-time renters thru CRO should be eligible to receive those perks, not to mention some that DVCer's would then have to "buy" to receive. A cash-paying guest gets daily housekeeping...I think that should be enough.

I don't see how a cash-paying guest at BCV could feel like they get any fewer "perks" than a person booking in the BC? And, I seriously doubt they know what perks a DVC owner gets. I am sorry to hash up yet ANOTHER old argument, but WDW is not offering "pop upgrades" to BCV/BWV/VWL (any of the DVC's attached to deluxe properties). The only "free upgrades" I have seen offered are mainly to SSR, with some having the option of upgrading to OKW. I think WDW should definitely examine this trend before they build any more DVC's on property. I'm not sure if size, location, or amenities is the real issue, but DVC owners definitely seem to fill the rooms of the smaller resorts (attached to deluxe hotels).

As far as the $95 fee, I have a big problem with that fee. It was my understanding from II that this is a "resort and transportation fee" charged to all who trade into a WDW resort which helps to cover the cost of the "benefits" of staying on property...mainly fuel and bus costs, since these items are not normally found at timeshares in other places. However, as DVC owners, aren't we ALREADY paying for fuel and bus fees in our dues? I just do not understand how this fee is reasonable. If anyone has any "insight" on this, I would appreciate it.

 

[cobbler]

While I am not a big fan of the $95 fee I can understand it. When I first heard about it here, then read it in my Vacation Magic my first thought was that they aren't getting enough, if any at all, of the money back from the trade out. So they are implimenting a fee to cover it.

I was only planning on using my points 1-2 more times at non DVC resorts. All that means to me now is that if I want to stay at those 2 places, I will transfer my points, or rent them and pay cash for the resort stay.

I don't really have an issue with the point banking thing, at least right now as it gives me 2 extra months. My UY is June and how our vacation planning works, if I don't know by the end of January, then I have problems. Luckily it works for me and it was really lucky as I just took the UY they were selling and didn't really research UY when I bought.

Now the only thing I do have problems with - and someone correct me if I am reading this wrong - is that we can NOT book any DVC stays in the last 4 months of our UY?? So again, I have a June UY, that means if I decide I want a last minute trip a month or 2 out I can't book anything in Feb - May for that time period?? Now why on earth would they do that?? Except maybe for people to lose the points they don't use, but does that benefit them at all? Especially if they aren't able to rent what they have currently?? That new change I don't like.

Just last week we decided to add a couple of days to our trip in November and of course are waitlisted - I expected as much. Again luckily we are not at the end of our UY but if I was, then I would basically be SOL right?? That doesn't seem right.

Maybe this is DVC's way to slowly implement only being able to book at your own resort? This change first, then soon another small change and pretty soon blam, loss of all flexibility.

 

[Kathi OD]

Now the only thing I do have problems with - and someone correct me if I am reading this wrong - is that we can NOT book any DVC stays in the last 4 months of our UY?? So again, I have a June UY, that means if I decide I want a last minute trip a month or 2 out I can't book anything in Feb - May for that time period?? Now why on earth would they do that?? Except maybe for people to lose the points they don't use, but does that benefit them at all? Especially if they aren't able to rent what they have currently?? That new change I don't like.

I did not understand this to be the case at all. What I understood is that you have to make your decision to bank or not bank before the last 4 months of your UY. So if you decide not to bank, you can still book in those last 4 months, although I would think if you knew you weren't going to bank you would book at that time.

I think for me, all this means is to bank at the 8 month point if we haven't decided on a trip, and then borrow from the next UY if we decide to go in the last 4 months.

Somehow I don't think I've explained what I'm trying to say very well.

 

[cobbler]

Ok, then what does "Book or Bank by four before" mean?? It's printed on the sign that Mickey is holding on page 2 of the Vacation Magic.

It also says "The new cutoff date for booking Member Getaways exchanges and banking unused Vacation Points is 120 days prior to the end of your Use Year, which is essentially four months."

Is that something different than DVC stays then?

 

[tjkraz]

Ok, then what does "Book or Bank by four before" mean?? It's printed on the sign that Mickey is holding on page 2 of the Vacation Magic.

It also says "The new cutoff date for booking Member Getaways exchanges and banking unused Vacation Points is 120 days prior to the end of your Use Year, which is essentially four months."

Is that something different than DVC stays then?

Yeah. Using points for The Disney Collection falls under the "Member Getaways" heading but NOT using points at the DVC resorts themselves. Also bear in mind that the restriction applies to when you can BOOK the trip, not when it actually occurs.

Let's say you have a June Use Year. You would need to BOOK a "Member Getaway" by January 31 (4 months before the end of the Use Year.) The stay itself could occur anytime before the May 31 end of the UY--it just has to be booked by 1/31.

It all comes down to how these exchange programs work. When members use points for a cruise or any other non-DVC destination, DVC takes the points and turns them into rooms rented by CRO. In order to complete that process, DVC needs time to manage the points. Without these limitations in place, a member with a June Use year could book a 500-point, late-May cruise on 5/1. DVC takes your 500 points and then has only 31 days before they expire at the end of May in order to turn them into some form of compensation.

Before this change I believe the rules stipulated that reservations had to be made at least 60 days before the end of the Use year. Now it's 120 days, so definitely a step back for members.

This has no impact on use of points at the 8 DVC resorts. With a June Use Year the night before your points expire and book a room for that evening (pending availability, of course.)

 

[cobbler]

Thanks Tim. I don't worry much about the Disney collection booking guidelines, although I can see how it will impact a few members who do want to book last minute trips and there is no DVC availibility.

I am glad to know that you can book DVC rooms less than 120 days out from your use year if available.

 

[Questforthemouse]

There are a few reasons why DVC rooms are available for cash. One is that not 100% of the rooms are owned by members. Most are, but not all. Secondly, whenever a member trades points for a non-DVC option (cruise, hotel, etc) those points are used to recoup the cost of the trade-out by renting the DVC room for cash. Third, at 60 days out, rooms that are not reserved on points are turned over to CRO for cash reservations, the assumption being that members will not be using the rooms. (It is sometimes possible for a member to re-claim one of these unsold rooms if they've not been rented.)

As far as the second part of your question goes, DVC can pretty much do as they please since the only alternative members have is to vote to remove them as the managing entity for the timeshare program. This would effectively remove the resort(s) from the Disney DVC program and as such is not a viable option.

Hi jarestel...Maybe you or someone else can confirm this for me...You mention (and I've seen others mention this also on other threads) that at the 60 day mark DVC "turns over" to CRO unused Declared Inventory for cash reservations through CRO. I was under the impression that it wasn't "turned over" to CRO as much as it is made available for access by CRO. The rooms could then be booked for cash through CRO or DVC members could book them on points through MS (obviously availability for member's pts ressies becomes more limited as cash ressies use up inventory). I didn't think the inventory actually had to be "re-claimed" by DVC before a member could book using pts. Help please...

 

[Dean]

Hi jarestel...Maybe you or someone else can confirm this for me...You mention (and I've seen others mention this also on other threads) that at the 60 day mark DVC "turns over" to CRO unused Declared Inventory for cash reservations through CRO. I was under the impression that it wasn't "turned over" to CRO as much as it is made available for access by CRO. The rooms could then be booked for cash through CRO or DVC members could book them on points through MS (obviously availability for member's pts ressies becomes more limited as cash ressies use up inventory). I didn't think the inventory actually had to be "re-claimed" by DVC before a member could book using pts. Help please...

Technically anything not reserved at 60 days out does not belong to points inventory any more. That "breakage" inventory is to be sold off for cash and is used to offset the fees. I think it was over 3% of the budget in 2005 if I recall correctly. Some have reported MS calling the resort and getting a room short notice when none was otherwise available. It has been suggested that this might have been reclaiming breakage inventory but I doubt anyone of use knows for certain.

 

[jarestel]

I didn't think the inventory actually had to be "re-claimed" by DVC before a member could book using pts. Help please...

As Dean pointed out, the inner workings of DVC are a bit of a mystery. I've attempted a few times to reserve rooms within that 60 day window and sometimes I'm told nothing is available and at other times MS tells me they need to call the resort to check inventory. I admit I'm only making an assumption that when MS calls the resort and a room becomes available that this is coming from the "60 day inventory" since if there were rooms available through points inventory there would be no reason to have to call the resort.