Is starvation a painful way to die?

[sweet angel]

Her feeding tube is not removed and put back in. It is a permanent fixture on her body. All they do (basically) is open the plug, hook up the nutrition, and let it flow. There is no discomfort associated with her tube.

I assume the feeding tube was like an IV. But that aside, either feed or don't feed. Don't seesaw back and forth between the two -- that just doesn't seem right.

 

[JennyMominRI]

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031408.html

The story about Kate is lovely..G-d bless her..But she had a brain stem involved stroke..The did not have here cerebral cortex destroyed..That is NOT the same thing Terri has

 

[sgtdisney]

The story about Kate is lovely..G-d bless her..But she had a brain stem involved stroke..The did not have here cerebral cortex destroyed..That is NOT the same thing Terri has

Neither is people being allowed to die via starvation and dehydration because they are in the final stages of cancer. But it all seems to be open to discussion. Honestly, I have just gotten interested in this case recently. Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Teri can feel absolutely no pain whatsoever? I mean could you do a root canal on her or operate on her and she couldn't feel one thing? Seriously, I an curious.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Neither is people being allowed to die via starvation and dehydration because they are in the final stages of cancer. But it all seems to be open to discussion. Honestly, I have just gotten interested in this case recently. Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Teri can feel absolutely no pain whatsoever? I mean could you do a root canal on her or operate on her and she couldn't feel one thing? Seriously, I an curious.

I can understand your point,but the reason I think she kesps being brought up(not by you) is to give false hope to those parents,when it's realy comparing apples to oragnged.or at least MacIntosh to Granny Smith
As to the pain question,She has no cerebral cortex,it has atrophied and is now filled with spinal fluid..This is the section of the brain that controls pain,among other things
Look at her brain..And this scan is old and her brain is even more damaged now..You have to cut and paste it


http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/CT scan.png

 

[meandtheguys2]

In regards to the OP...scared to read the rest...! I don't think starvation is a painful way to die. I have known people to fast for over a week, and what they say is that they are uncomfortable for about two days. Then they are fine. Of course this doesn't include dehydration. I have had friends who have dealt with this, and there didn't *appear* to be any discomfort.

Luckily we didn't have to make the choice to take away sustenance with my dad, but we were under orders from him to do so if it was deemed appropriate. My husband has the same request from me and vice versa. I am not concerned with dying past the fact that others (my kids, etc) would be affected.

 

[Chicago526]

I don't know really what to believe at this point. But here are some comments from an expert of sorts as well. She isn't in the medical profession, but actually lived through a feeding tube removal and is now able to speak about it. Maybe Teri can't feel any pain. I hope so. However in this woman's case, it doesn't sound as beautiful and painfree for a PVS patient as people are saying..

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031408.html

A truely amazing story, I'm glad she was able to recover.

What the link doesn't say (and neither does her own website) is what CT or MRI scans showed of her brain activity, and the results of other tests that may have shown that she was infact going to be able to recover with proper treatment. If all the tests showed that she would never recover, well, then I don't know what to think either. But I think (and this is just an opinion, folks) that if her tests did infact show no hope of recovery, then that would be mentioned in both the article and the website, plus her story would have been shouted from every media outlet in the US in conjunction with Terri's story.

Terri's test results show that her cerebral cortex has filled with spinal fluid. At this point, there is no possible way for her to be aware, or for her to be able to recover from this.

 

[sgtdisney]

A truely amazing story, I'm glad she was able to recover.

What the link doesn't say (and neither does her own website) is what CT or MRI scans showed of her brain activity, and the results of other tests that may have shown that she was infact going to be able to recover with proper treatment. If all the tests showed that she would never recover, well, then I don't know what to think either.

I understand now that Kate Adamson had PVS brought on by completely different circumstances than Teri, but if the doctors decided that she was gone far enough to warrant removing her feeding tube for 8 days and it was only reinserted because her husband fought for it to be reinserted, I hope the Drs thought she was unable to recover. You know what I mean? Or why else did they pull it.

 

[C.Ann]

This is an portion of Kate's own story - from the link to her web site that has been posted here....

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My stroke left me with “locked-in syndrome,” paralyzing me completely. I had no access to my voluntary nervous system. I was shut off from the world, trapped in my body, and unable to communicate with anyone. My once-toned athletic body was now fighting for every breath. My husband and caregiver helped me fight back. Only after many fearful days of total isolation was I even able to blink.

Blinking for me was a landmark of epic proportions. It allowed me to let people know that I indeed was in there. I was alive. By blinking letters out on an alphabet board, I could share my fears, pain and eventual hope with others. After six weeks in ICU and another three months in acute rehabilitation, I was finally able to return home. I had beaten the odds for recovery, which, according to my doctors, was about one in a million. I planned to be able to walk out of the hospital on my own, a whole person-but it was not to be. I was discharged in a wheelchair, a brace on my left leg up to the knee and my left arm paralyzed. I was about to begin a year of outpatient rehabilitation, five days a week.

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This in no way, shape or form resembles Terri and the injury she suffered.. If Terri were able to "blink letters out on an alphabet board" I'm sure this topic would be moot..

 

[sgtdisney]

This in no way, shape or form resembles Terri and the injury she suffered.. If Terri were able to "blink letters out on an alphabet board" I'm sure this topic would be moot..

Why did the Doctors pull out her feeding tube for 8 days if she was able to communicate. I am not being argumentative, just curious.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Why did the Doctors pull out her feeding tube for 8 days if she was able to communicate. I am not being argumentative, just curious.

The ability to comunicate does not mean one cannot have a tube removed..People who are terminally chose to have feeding tubes removed sometimes.. They vocalize their wishes.. Like has been said..YOu really can't compare these 2 cases..They all need to be taken on a case to case basis

 

[sgtdisney]

The ability to comunicate does not mean one cannot have a tube removed..People who are terminally chose to have feeding tubes removed sometimes.. They vocalize their wishes.. Like has been said..YOu really can't compare these 2 cases..They all need to be taken on a case to case basis

That woman had her feeding tube, according to that article, removed for 8 days. During that time she remembers the pain of starving. Unless of course she is remembering it wrong. Also, apparently it was against her husband's wishes since he fought to have it replaced. Maybe she had a living will?

I am just curious why doctors would pull a feeding tube of a woman who was apparently able to communicate but was in a slightly similar (but very different) condition as Teri Schiavo. I think I am straying from the original topic here and maybe I will do more research. I am just susprised that in this other case that the doctors would want to starve a woman who could communicate and was able to recover.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That woman had her feeding tube, according to that article, for 8 days. Apparently it was against her husband's wishes since he fought to have it replaced. Maybe she had a living will. I am just curious why doctors would pull a feeding tube of a woman who was apparently able to communicate but was in a similar (but very different) condition as Teri Schiavo. I think I am straying from the original topic here and maybe I will do more research. I am just susprised that in this other case that the doctors would want to starve a woman who could communicate and was able to recover.

It's legal to go against the wishes of the NIK in some states

 

[sgtdisney]

That's kind of scary. I mean unless the patient has a living will expressly documenting their wishes. I would think the Doctor's would leave it up to the family/spouse.

 

[always quiet]

My mother passed away after her battle with Altzheimers. At the end, she refused food (believe me, there was no way to get anything past her clenched teeth!). We decided not to have a feeding tube inserted. Yes, she would of remained alive, but my "Mom" wasn't alive.........only her shell was there. It took maybe a week for the end to come. No, she was not in any pain and didn't require any medication. She slipped away peacefully in her sleep. And NO, she did not "wither" away. I'm not saying you won't see weight loss on Terri, she's is much younger than my mom and a larger woman that my mom. My mother's physical appearance did not change in her last week.

I have a bit of understanding when it comes to the feeding tube. My DH required one from Sept. to Jan. of this year after the battle with cancer left his throat so burned from radiation that he was not able to swallow without extreme pain. The tube is inserted into the belly and held in place by what looks like a mushroom on the end inside the stomach (I had to see this when they pulled it!!). Now, according to what the doctor told us was that when he pulled it that day, if they needed to reinsert it again, it would have to be done by surgery (opening up the belly). They are able to insert it once through the laproscopy, which is how he was inserted. If they decide to place Terri's again, I can only assume it will be the same way. The tube they showed on Terri was the exact one my DH had.

A bit off the main topic but I heard a priest say that only God should decide when a person's time has come. Well, if you think about it, God DID decide. The stroke Terri had 15 year ago left her with the inability to take in nutrition. Medical science stepped in to keep her alive. Sounds like a double standard. This woman deserves to be able to finally rest.

 

[Chicago526]

A bit off the main topic but I heard a priest say that only God should decide when a person's time has come. Well, if you think about it, God DID decide. The stroke Terri had 15 year ago left her with the inability to take in nutrition. Medical science stepped in to keep her alive. Sounds like a double standard. This woman deserves to be able to finally rest.

I had the same thought! And really, if this had happend 50 years ago, I doubt she would have survived the initial heart attack and brain damage. It's only modern medicine that has kept her alive this long to begin with.

I truely do sympathize with the parents, I can't imagine losing a child, but it's time to let her go.

 

[meandtheguys2]

A bit off the main topic but I heard a priest say that only God should decide when a person's time has come. Well, if you think about it, God DID decide. The stroke Terri had 15 year ago left her with the inability to take in nutrition. Medical science stepped in to keep her alive. Sounds like a double standard. This woman deserves to be able to finally rest.

I agree, always quiet. I guess I don't understand quite how long people want her to be sustained. Theoretically she could live for a whole lot longer in this state, couldn't she? At what point is it okay to let nature take its course?

 

[froglady]

My father, mother and I refused to have a feeding tube inserted for my father, so he starved to death. It only took a few days, and he seemed comfortable. He awoke as each of my brothers arrived, then went back into his stupor. He was given pain medication, as he had been in chronic, intractable pain, which is why he stopped eating and moving in the first place.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I agree, always quiet. I guess I don't understand quite how long people want her to be sustained. Theoretically she could live for a whole lot longer in this state, couldn't she? At what point is it okay to let nature take its course?

She's 41..How old are the parents..What happens to Terri when they are gone..She could outlive them all,lying there in her hospital bed

 

[JimB.]

I think dying of starvation is probably VERY painful for a healthy person who is suddenly thrust into that situation;

I can say from a personal experience that is is, at least for me, not true.

During a 2 week survival school in the Navy, I went for about 7 days without eating a thing. After the first 1-2 days of feeling hungry, the urge to eat simply disappeared. No hunger. Nothing. In fact, when I returned to the "real world", I had to force myself TO eat.

 

[MickeyFlirt]

I am not going to post on my thoughts of Terry b/c I don't want to debate them, but I willsay I have seen many patients die from dehydration/starvation in the last days - most of the time b/c of their own wishes and I have never once encountered a time where that was the painful part of their death. Most who have posted that the deaths were in deed painful knew someone who died fom cancer and I have also witness patients who have also died from cancer and cancer is very painful and the end can be bad. She will be giving comfort care to the fullest extent and hospice will also be monitoring this process. U have also had patients that were severly dehydrated and not even know that they were.