Is starvation a painful way to die?

[sweet angel]

ITA! What's the difference in "putting her to sleep" vs. withholding water & food? The end result is death either way and one simple shot could save a lot of suffering - for everyone involved.

Why is it ok to put dogs and cats to sleep, but not humans - who in some cases - beg for it? So sad.

I agree. My ex-MIL asked repeatedly for an overdose of morphine when she was dying from cancer.

In the current case, I think it's less humane to keep inserting and removing the feeding tube. Here's food -- nope, no food -- here's food -- nope, no food. Jeez...pick an option and stick with it.

 

[DawnCt1]

You can't make this stuff up. Oy, oy, oy!

Being a nurse, one would think you would actually know the difference between a patient in a PVS and removing a feeding tube and a prisoner being executed. I guess you can't take anything for granted these days.

We are being told that the death planned for Terri is just wonderful. Why only limit the beauty of it to her. Surely you wouldn't resent death row prisoners from having the last great experience, would you?

 

[Chicago526]

Not at all. We are being told by some segments of the media and certainly by MS that it is actually a pleasant, comfortable way to go. The electrolyte consentrations rise and we slip into a blissful, comfortable, peaceful sleep. In fact, this new revelation will have impact on future policy decisions. Up until now we have tried to devise ways to put the condemned to death. Starvation is the way to go in the future. Think of the money it will save in drugs such as potassium chloride, pentathol and succinyl choline. It will totally eliminate the inconvenience to the prison systems for the last meal. It won't be needed. Yup. Just when we thought lethal injection was humane, we now learn that starvation is even better. Why, the inmate will not even have to be moved to a holding cell cutting down on any need for new construction.

I think the differance is that a person on death row is perfectly healthy. Starvation/dehydration for a healthy person is very differant than for a serverely ill person.

 

[DawnCt1]

My thought is"

1. Why would you want your loved one to live on TPN fed thru a tube??

!

She is not on TPN. She gets the equivalent of Ensure and water through a tube that used to go directly into her stomach through her abdomen. TPN requires a central line.

 

[sgtdisney]

What I find interesting is in the article, and in personal observations here, starvation was being used as way to speed up the death process in people who were terminally ill and were in a final stage of the dying process to begin with. Isn't Teri Schiavo fairly healthy, physically anyway? Not getting into the discussion as to whether or not she is brain dead and can't feel any pain at all, wouldn't someone who was physically healthy probably experience more pain while dying as a result of starvation/dehydration as opposed to someone who was already experiencing excrutiating pain as a result of some terminal disease? I really don't understand why we care more as a society about the pain and suffering of our animals that we do for our fellow human beings. If Teri wanted to die, and should be let to die (I won't even go into how I feel about that) why does she have to starve?

 

[brermomof2]

You all have good points. I'm not trying to be gross, but curious.....will she "wither up" before she dies?

Anybody??

 

[DawnCt1]

Terri wasn't terminally ill until the tube came out. There is a difference between the overwhelming illness that incompasses a terminally ill person and one whose organ systems are essentially healthy with the exception of her brain.

 

[minkydog]

I witnessed my father's death last summer. He was slowly starving to death due to advanced lung cancer. The cancer was very painful and often made him throw up. It made eating difficult. Although he desperately wanted to live, by the end he just wanted to be pain-free. I had promised him that I wouldn't let him die horribly, so I had an morphine-IV placed, turned off the feeding tube,and told him we loved him. When he was ready he asked to let go. He fell asleep and died 36hrs later. It was the most peaceful death I have ever witnessed and I have told my DH that when my time comes I want them to juice me up and shove me off.

 

[DawnCt1]

What I find interesting is in the article, and in personal observations here, starvation was being used as way to speed up the death process in people who were terminally ill and were in a final stage of the dying process to begin with. Isn't Teri Schiavo fairly healthy, physically anyway? Not getting into the discussion as to whether or not she is brain dead and can't feel any pain at all, wouldn't someone who was physically healthy probably experience more pain while dying as a result of starvation/dehydration as opposed to someone who was already experiencing excrutiating pain as a result of some terminal disease? I really don't understand why we care more as a society about the pain and suffering of our animals that we do for our fellow human beings. If Teri wanted to die, and should be let to die (I won't even go into how I feel about that) why does she have to starve?

Absolutely carcinomas excreet a lot of substances that contribute to the overall disease of the body. The pt doesn't just die because they may have lost function of that particular organ, although that happens too, but due to the toxic substances that dull the senses, produce coma and ultimately, along with their inability to eat and drink, take their lives.

 

[shelbyjosh]

Anybody??

In the current case, I think it's less humane to keep inserting and removing the feeding tube. Here's food -- nope, no food -- here's food -- nope, no food. Jeez...pick an option and stick with it.

Her feeding tube is not removed and put back in. It is a permanent fixture on her body. All they do (basically) is open the plug, hook up the nutrition, and let it flow. There is no discomfort associated with her tube.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Not at all. We are being told by some segments of the media and certainly by MS that it is actually a pleasant, comfortable way to go. The electrolyte consentrations rise and we slip into a blissful, comfortable, peaceful sleep. QUOTE]

Actually,I have been told this several times over the years by doctors when preparing my own AD

 

[brermomof2]

In the current case, I think it's less humane to keep inserting and removing the feeding tube. Here's food -- nope, no food -- here's food -- nope, no food. Jeez...pick an option and stick with it.

Her feeding tube is not removed and put back in. It is a permanent fixture on her body. All they do (basically) is open the plug, hook up the nutrition, and let it flow. There is no discomfort associated with her tube.

That wasn't my question. It wasn't an issue about pain or discomfort. I asked about her physical appearance as she dies. Will she "wither up" - yes or no.

 

[Chicago526]

For those of you who believe that removing a feeding tube is a painful way to die, why? After the article I posted, and the personal accounts of those that have faced this decision and have shared their stories here, why do you still believe that it is painful? Are all of these doctors and nurses lying? Are you saying these posters are being untruthful when they say their loved passed peacefully?

I'm just trying to figure out why you still believe what you do. You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just wondering what they are based on.

 

[ThAnswr]

We are being told that the death planned for Terri is just wonderful. Why only limit the beauty of it to her. Surely you wouldn't resent death row prisoners from having the last great experience, would you?

Oh c'mon, you're pulling my leg. Aren't you? Please tell me you know the difference between removing a feeding tube from someone in a PVS and a lucid, healthy prisoner being executed? Please tell me do.

Yanno, I'm catching a vibe here and it ain't good.

 

[DawnCt1]

For those of you who believe that removing a feeding tube is a painful way to die, why? After the article I posted, and the personal accounts of those that have faced this decision and have shared their stories here, why do you still believe that it is painful? Are all of these doctors and nurses lying? Are you saying these posters are being untruthful when they say their loved passed peacefully?

I'm just trying to figure out why you still believe what you do. You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just wondering what they are based on.

My mother passed away peacefully from metastatic breast cancer because the cancer made her so ill that she didn't want to eat and she was medicated with Dilaudid and Duragesic patches. That is the case with most terminally ill patients.

 

[sgtdisney]

I'm just trying to figure out why you still believe what you do. You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just wondering what they are based on.

Not trying to be sarcastic here but have you ever been hungry? I mean really hungry. I am sure that when someone is standing on death's doorstep, in more pain than is humanly imaginable, that starving is not the pain that they feel and in that case the Doctor's are telling the truth. My concern is how it feels to an otherwise physically healthy individual.

I would have to think that there would be some discomfort involved. I am saying this not to be sarcastic, but curious. If dying via starvation and dehydration is so beautful and painfree, why don't we let our pets (and even our prisoners who are being executed Ok, that's a stretch) die that way? It would seem to me that since Euthanizing pets is standard protocol and lethal injections are used to kill prisoners that it must be easier to live through and more humane. If Teri is meant to die, why can't she go quickly and painlessly?

 

[Chicago526]

Not trying to be sarcastic here but have you ever been hungry? I mean really hungry. I am sure that when someone is standing on death's doorstep, in more pain than is humanly imaginable, that starving is not the pain that they feel and in that case the Doctor's are telling the truth. My concern is how it feels to an otherwise physically healthy individual.

I would have to think that there would be some discomfort involved. I am saying this not to be sarcastic, but curious. If dying via starvation and dehydration is so beautful and painfree, why don't we let our pets (and even our prisoners who are being executed Ok, that's a stretch) die that way? It would seem to me that since Euthanizing pets is standard protocol and lethal injections are used to kill prisoners that it must be easier to live through and more humane. If Teri is meant to die, why can't she go quickly and painlessly?

I think (and the article and posters with first hand experiance alluded to this) that for a person who has health problems to the extent that removing a feeding tube becomes an option, that they don't feel hunger or thirst the way a healthy person would.

To allow a healthy person, like a condemed prisoner, to starve to death or die of dehydration would be verry painful. For someone that is dieing of cancer, or is already brain dead, it is not painful.

 

[ThAnswr]

For those of you who believe that removing a feeding tube is a painful way to die, why? After the article I posted, and the personal accounts of those that have faced this decision and have shared their stories here, why do you still believe that it is painful? Are all of these doctors and nurses lying? Are you saying these posters are being untruthful when they say their loved passed peacefully?

I'm just trying to figure out why you still believe what you do. You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just wondering what they are based on.

Because the carefully worded, self-serving terminology used by the pundits, various news outlets, and rightwing websites is starvation. That conjures up images of starving children in Ethiopia. It confuses people because it was intended to.

People also fall into the trap of "I believe it, therefore it must be so" and no amount of evidence is going to change their minds. This is also know as the "logical fallacy".

A personal observation: My father had a massive stroke in 2000. He went into a coma and never recovered. I made the decision to remove his feeding tube and withold liquids as there was no hope of recovery.

His passing was one of the most serene, peaceful experiences I have ever seen. His blood pressure was carefully monitored as a rise in blood pressure might mean he was in distress. It never happened.

After, 4 days my father peacefully died. It was like he just went to sleep.

Just a personal observation. They say seeing is believing and I've seen it.

 

[C.Ann]

For those of you who believe that removing a feeding tube is a painful way to die, why? After the article I posted, and the personal accounts of those that have faced this decision and have shared their stories here, why do you still believe that it is painful? Are all of these doctors and nurses lying? Are you saying these posters are being untruthful when they say their loved passed peacefully?

I'm just trying to figure out why you still believe what you do. You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just wondering what they are based on.

-------------------------------------------

You can post articles like this from now until forever and for those who have "heard" from their mother's uncle's sister's brother-in-law's cousin that this is a painful way to die, they are going to believe people with no expertise in this area over the medical professionals who actually have the knowledge to state that it is a peaceful and painfree way to die..

 

[sgtdisney]

I don't know really what to believe at this point. But here are some comments from an expert of sorts as well. She isn't in the medical profession, but actually lived through a feeding tube removal and is now able to speak about it. Maybe Teri can't feel any pain. I hope so. However in this woman's case, it doesn't sound as beautiful and painfree for a PVS patient as people are saying..

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031408.html

Recovered “Vegetative State” Patient Kate Adamson Speaks Before Schiavo Rally
Withdrawal of food and water was “one of the most painful experiences you can imagine”

CLEARWATER, FL., March 14, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - On Saturday a rally of over three-hundred of Terri Schiavo’s most die-hard supporters heard the first-hand account of the sufferings and remarkable recovery of Kate Adamson. Struck down in 1995 at the age of thirty-three by a rare double brainstem stroke, Kate, then a mother of two young girls, was completely paralyzed; she was unable even to blink her eyes. Like Terri Schiavo, the medical staff treating her questioned the merit of continuing granting Kate the most basic human right of food and water.

Terri Schiavo, although not nearly as severely disabled as Adamson once appeared to be, is slotted to have her feeding tube removed at 1:00 pm this Friday. Similarly, Kate Adamson’s feeding tube was at one point removed for a full eight days before being reinserted due to the intervention of her husband (also a competent lawyer).

Frequently described by medical authorities as a humane way to die, Kate - now as vibrant and beautiful as before her stroke - testified before the crowd of Terri’s family and supporters that this form of legalized execution was “one of the most painful experiences you can imagine." Unable to respond or to indicate awareness, Kate Adamson asserts, “I was just like Terri…but I was alive! I could hear every word. They were saying ‘shall we just not treat her?’...I suffered excruciating misery in silence.”

This personal testimony confirms what Terri supporters have long suspected—that the execution sought by her husband Michael Schiavo is anything but painless and humane. Furthermore, Kate’s remarkable recovery to nearly full mental and physical health—-she still suffers partial paralysis of her left side—-gives Terri supporters hope that Terri too may still experience a similar recovery, if granted proper care and treatment.

During her early-afternoon speech Kate declared that “If they want to kill Terri they should have the guts to put a gun to her head” rather than condemn her to such a slow and painful death. She finished off by summing up the full import of the Schiavo case, saying, “The measure of a society is how they treat the least of us. Life is sacred or meaningless, there is nothing in between.”

Contact Kate Adamson by visiting http://www.katesjourney.com