Is Pat Robertson "relevant" to mainstream Christians?

[cardaway]

Ah yes, the Ten Commandments according to Dawn;

"Thou Shalt Not Kill.....unless I disagree with your political outlook, in which case lock and load!"

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you Dawn, one of the core group President Bush's dwindling supporters.

 

[ford family]

You may be interested to know that, when viewed from abroad, Pat Robertson is considered fairly normal for a religious American. We see regular examples in our newspapers and on our television of the excesses of Christian zeal that emanates from the US. Many posters on these boards would be considered extremists outside America.
We spend part of our time at our home in Florida. When talking to other non resident aliens over there, or other people here who have homes in the US, the subject of US attitudes to religion often arises, always in a pejorative way. The usual advice is to avoid the subject completely, walk away from any overt display without comment or giving offence.
People like Pat Robertson have their views broadcast around the world. Individuals who do not agree with him never get their condemnation heard.

ford family

 

[DawnCt1]

Ah yes, the Ten Commandments according to Dawn;

"Thou Shalt Not Kill.....unless I disagree with your political outlook, in which case lock and load!"

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you Dawn, one of the core members of President Bush's dwindling support base.

Again, I haven't suggested that Hugo Chavez be assassinated or anything of the like. Nice attempt to twist my words. I only commented on the fact that he will not be missed, and his absence would bring a pleasant smile to my face. I didn't feel bad when Idi Amin died either, nor Pol Pot. Did you?

 

[Galahad]

You may be interested to know that, when viewed from abroad, Pat Robertson is considered fairly normal for a religious American.
ford family

Since he is not consider so here it might be that there is a distorted view abroad of American religious life.

 

[DawnCt1]

You may be interested to know that, when viewed from abroad, Pat Robertson is considered fairly normal for a religious American. We see regular examples in our newspapers and on our television of the excesses of Christian zeal that emanates from the US. Many posters on these boards would be considered extremists outside America.

Europe is pursuing a more secular trend and if you compared the numbers of Europeans who consider themselves religious, attend church regularly and believe in God to that of Americans, I think you would find that number much lower than that of Americans which is, from memory, in the high 80 to 90% range. I thought I heard recently that the figure for Europeans were below 30%. That may color the European perception of Americans being "religious zealots.".

 

[Puffy2]

Europe is pursuing a more secular trend and if you compared the numbers of Europeans who consider themselves religious, attend church regularly and believe in God to that of Americans, I think you would find that number much lower than that of Americans which is, from memory, in the high 80 to 90% range. I thought I heard recently that the figure for Europeans were below 30%. That may color the European perception of Americans being "religious zealots.".

That figure isn't correct. No way that 80 - 90 % of Americans Attend Church Regularly and Believe in God.

Believe in a higher power, maybe, but they aren't attending church in those numbers. I think if you questioned Europeans about their belief in a higher power of some sort, you would get roughly the same numbers as in the US. The problem is organized religion which is less appealing to Americans and Europeans alike, yet much more so for the Europeans.

 

[DawnCt1]

That figure isn't correct. No way that 80 - 90 % of Americans Attend Church Regularly and Believe in God.

Believe in a higher power, maybe, but they aren't attending church in those numbers. I think if you questioned Europeans about their belief in a higher power of some sort, you would get roughly the same numbers as in the US. The problem is organized religion which is less appealing to Americans and Europeans alike, yet much more so for the Europeans.

I should have had an "or" rather than an "and". I believe the number of church and synagogue attendees (once per month or more) is about 58%.

 

[cardaway]

People like Pat Robertson have their views broadcast around the world. Individuals who do not agree with him never get their condemnation heard.

Because there is nothing to show. People who could get heard stay silent. Not good.

 

[DawnCt1]

Because there is nothing to show. People who could get heard stay silent. Not good.

I am not convinced that they stay silent. My guess is that if it isn't sensational, it isn't "newsworthy". You know, "If it bleeds it leads". Its much more sensational to have a glaring headline that says; "Sharon is punished by God". A headline that proclaims "Jesus Loves You" wouldn't happen.

 

[Galahad]

From a site dedicated to helping Democrats connect with religious voters:

When the Harris Poll did a study of the religious beliefs of today's U. S. electorate, they reported some very interesting findings at harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=359, among them :

The 90% of adults who believe in God include 93% of women, 96% of African-Americans and 93% of Republicans but only 86% of men, 85% of those with postgraduate degrees, and 87% of political independents.
The 84% of those who believe in the survival of the soul after death include 89% of women but only 78% of men, 86% of those without a college degree but only 78% of those with postgraduate degrees.
The 84% of the public who believe in miracles falls to 72% among those with postgraduate degrees, and rises to 90% among women and 90% among African-Americans.
The 82% who believe in heaven includes 89% of women but only 75% of men and falls to 71% among people aged 25 to 29 and those with postgraduate degrees.
The survey findings show that a large majority of Americans consider religion important in their personal lives and closely associate religion and morality. Furthermore, Pew Forum surveys over several years show that Americans are generally more comfortable (than Europeans) with religion playing a major role in public life.

 

[DawnCt1]

From a site dedicated to helping Democrats connect with religious voters:

Thanks for posting that. It is the one that I have heard referenced in news lately. I believe those numbers vary significantly from those in Europe.

 

[Galahad]

A completely different topic - but I think that Harris study lends support to the notion that the DIS in particular, and Internet communities in general are as yet not a good representation of the population of this or any other country. You can't draw conclusions about what people are about by reading what get's said or who says it on the web.

 

[nhrenee]

Why would you insult Moe like that, what did he ever do to you?

That's what I was going to post!

 

[Geoff_M]

We see regular examples in our newspapers and on our television of the excesses of Christian zeal that emanates from the US. Many posters on these boards would be considered extremists outside America.

This comment reminds me of when I used to periodically travel to Sweden on business in the late 1990's. At the hotel I stayed at, I made a startling revelation... Based on the frequency that it aired, the run-away #1 US TV program on Swedish television screens was "Married, With Children". No doubt, like you and your education of the "mainstream" US religious thinking, for many Swedes this was the primary informational source of the workings of an American nuclear family. It would be like me assuming that most folks in the UK act like Benny Hill or Mr. Bean.

 

[yeartolate]

I also find it interesting that she started the thread wondering if she should don her flame retardant suit, even though there has been no thread aggressively defending PR's comments. It was really preaching to the choir.

Excuse me Dawn, this was not a thread about PR's comments. I was wondering if mainstream Christians found him relevant as a religious figure despite his comments. I was wondering if they were willing to look away from his unCHristian (in my book at least) comments and see him as a leader nonetheless.

 

[katerkat]

Eh, he's not even on the list of famous alumni we claim at my college.

 

[ford family]

Thanks for posting that. It is the one that I have heard referenced in news lately. I believe those numbers vary significantly from those in Europe.

As far as the UK is concerned, a BBC survey in 2004 showed less than 50 per cent believed in God. I have not seen similar surveys for other European countries but empirical evidence suggests that the level of belief is much lower than in the US even when you consider the "habit" of belief that tended to exist in many Catholic countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3518375.stm

One impact of this increasing secularisation is for Europeans to view religious fervour in the Middle East, of whatever denomination, and religious fervour in the US, mainly Christian, and see them as comparable. Whilst the current activities of Christian extremists in the US pale into insignificance when set against the activities of, say, Islamic extremists, the argument becomes one of scale rather than that of moral absolutes. Is a Hamas suicide bomber who murders a score of innocent Israelis more reprehensible than a pro life supporter that murders an abortionist? Is the President of Iran calling for the destruction of Israel more heinous than Pat Robertson claiming that Sharon is being punished by God for his actions? In both cases, arguably yes, but your perspective could depend on where in the world you are sitting. The world hears Pat Robertson and considers his statement to be reflective of main stream US Christian opinion. Where is the world's media in publicising the rebuttal ?

ford family

 

[Galahad]

This comment reminds me of when I used to periodically travel to Sweden on business in the late 1990's. At the hotel I stayed at, I made a startling revelation... Based on the frequency that it aired, the run-away #1 US TV program on Swedish television screens was "Married, With Children". No doubt, like you and your education of the "mainstream" US religious thinking, for many Swedes this was the primary informational source of the workings of an American nuclear family. It would be like me assuming that most folks in the UK act like Benny Hill or Mr. Bean.

In fairness, I think our general view of life in Europe is no less distorted than the view elsewhere of life in the U.S.

 

[sodaseller]

In fairness, I think our general view of life in Europe is no less distorted than the view elsewhere of life in the U.S.

Very good point. Anyone should be cautious in forming any firm conclusion on a foreign culture based on what is necessarily limited evidence

 

[DawnCt1]

Apparently not. But that has been more or less evident in every other thread on PR.