Is Michael Reagan a Catholic?

[PamOKW]

Others can jump in here but the "Our Father" or "Lord's Prayer" is one of the common elements of many established Christian churches -- not just Catholic. There are some slight differences in the wording. The prayer said during Reagan's services used "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". The Catholic version says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." The Protestant version also concludes "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever. Amen". Catholics have more recently added this line. We used to end at 'and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Now, after Amen we say "For Thine....." as part of the move toward coming together on common ground with other Christian churches. (I think the Episcopal Church also uses "trespasses" in their version and the Lutheran Church may also.)

 

[LScot]

And they say, "Don't discuss religion".

Thanks for the answers and comments. Nite!

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Others can jump in here but the "Our Father" or "Lord's Prayer" is one of the common elements of many established Christian churches -- not just Catholic. There are some slight differences in the wording. The prayer said during Reagan's services used "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". The Catholic version says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." The Protestant version also concludes "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever. Amen". Catholics have more recently added this line. We used to end at 'and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Now, after Amen we say "For Thine....." as part of the move toward coming together on common ground with other Christian churches. (I think the Episcopal Church also uses "trespasses" in their version and the Lutheran Church may also.)

We still don't say the "for thine is the kingdom" part yet at my Church. But I noticed in the last few years, people holding hands or just holding their hands up toward God with their heads bowed during the Our Father. This is relatively new for me, as we never did that when I was growing up. (I've been going to the same Church all my life.)

 

[tar heel]

Presbyterians use "debts," and the country Southern Baptist Church I grew up in says "trespasses."

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Divamomto3 We still don't say the "for thine is the kingdom" part yet at my Church.

You should during the Doxology: Mass-at least if it's a Latin rite mass. I don't know about other rites.

But I noticed in the last few years, people holding hands or just holding their hands up toward God with their heads bowed during the Our Father. This is relatively new for me, as we never did that when I was growing up. (I've been going to the same Church all my life.)

mmmmm. Holding hands during the Our Father. Which side of the debate are you on?

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

he said an "Our Father". That is a catholic prayer, I believe.

Ah, no, that is not a Roman Catholic prayer. It is a Christian prayer. If you mean Catholic as in a church with one head, then you are correct.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Others can jump in here but the "Our Father" or "Lord's Prayer" is one of the common elements of many established Christian churches -- not just Catholic. There are some slight differences in the wording. The prayer said during Reagan's services used "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". The Catholic version says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." The Protestant version also concludes "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever. Amen". Catholics have more recently added this line. We used to end at 'and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Now, after Amen we say "For Thine....." as part of the move toward coming together on common ground with other Christian churches. (I think the Episcopal Church also uses "trespasses" in their version and the Lutheran Church may also.)

The UCC also uses "trespasses".

 

[Keli]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Others can jump in here but the "Our Father" or "Lord's Prayer" is one of the common elements of many established Christian churches -- not just Catholic. There are some slight differences in the wording. The prayer said during Reagan's services used "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". The Catholic version says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." The Protestant version also concludes "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever. Amen". Catholics have more recently added this line. We used to end at 'and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Now, after Amen we say "For Thine....." as part of the move toward coming together on common ground with other Christian churches. (I think the Episcopal Church also uses "trespasses" in their version and the Lutheran Church may also.)

Aren't the differences in the prayers just the two versions of the Lord's prayer in the gospels? I'm pentecostal and we don't usually say the Lord's prayer, at least not on a regular basis but when we do it could be either version.

 

[sunni]

Wow, I spent some time with the family and washing the dog and look how much I've missed! I don't even know where to begin

I need to say that my comment that I believe Catholics are misguided was not an attempt to belittle anyone or insult. It is simply my belief based upon bible teachings and what I've learned over the years of the RCC. My children attended catholic school for many years so I spent time trying to learn more about the Catholic faith.

Some questions and comments were thrown out there, and without making this a debate I'll try to give my opinion briefly.

Misguided (IMO) =
Confessing to priests and praying to saints - we don't need an intercessor other than the Holy Spirit, God is more than able to hear our prayers and confessions and I haven't found anything in the Bible to support doing otherwise, though we are to pray for one another of course. One of my children was told in Catholic Religion class that they need to pray to the saints and Mary because God is too busy and can't possibly hear all the prayers, so it is the job of the saints to hear them and take them to Him. I cannot believe in a God that isn't powerful enough to know our needs and sort them out! As for the Holy Spirit acting through the priests and that being a reason to confess to them (as PamOKW pointed out), when you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit... YOU have the Holy Spirit within you, why do you need a priest for confession? The priests are not the only ones who have the Spirit.

Penance following confession - doesn't make sense to me because when you ask for forgiveness your sin is hurled into the depths of the sea, it no longer exists! (Micah 7:18 & 19; Hebrews 8:12). If Christ paid for your sins with His blood, isn't it a slap in His face to do penance for what He just paid for? I know there may be consequences that you need to face, and I also believe you need to make things right with others, perhaps pay restitution as an act of love, but you owe God nothing... His gift was free and without strings attached!

Mortal vs venial sins - I believe that to God a sin is a sin. Just
one sin could condemn us (Rom 3:23; Rom 6:23) had it not been for Christ.

What seems to me like an extreme adoration of Mary - I don't believe she was without any sin as I haven't seen that backed up with scripture. Personally, I feel that she is looked to more than Christ sometimes and I can't help but feel like I'm looking at an idol when I see her statue in a church. Would she really want people praying to her and making statues to her... or to her Lord?

Purgatory

Birth control

The Pope being infallible (I do understand this isn't all the time).

It's too late at night for me to tackle those last three! I'll just say that IMO they aren't backed up scripturally.


Divamomto3 you mentioned something about people saying they are "saved" and had questions. Some scripture you might be interested in:
*You can't inherit salvation (Luke 3:8)
*Good works won't save you (Ephesians 2:8-9)
*Jesus is the only way to salvation (Acts 4:12)
*Knowing about Jesus or knowing the Bible isn't enough; even evil spirits know Jesus! (Mark 3:11; John 3:10-11)
*It is simple to be saved, not complicated (Romans 10:8-12)
*Jesus tells Nicodemus he must be born again (be repentant and have a spiritual rebirth) (John 3:1-21)

Whew! That was longer than I intended! If I didn't answer someone's question about what my comments before meant, I apologize. I truly have no desire to offend anyone; there are people very dear to me who are Catholic. I don't believe everything that every Protestant church teaches either, some rules are simply man-made (ie: don't wear make-up, don't drink alcohol, don't play cards, etc.). I have to decide what I can live with and what I can't as it's important to me to follow the teachings of the church I join. I finally joined a Free Methodist church after attending that denomination's churches for 27 years... I don't like to be too hasty with my decisions, LOL! I've enjoyed reading all the other posts and this has been a learning experience for me... wishing you all a blessed week!

 

[sunni]

Originally posted by LScot
And they say, "Don't discuss religion".

Thanks for the answers and comments. Nite!

LOL!

"They" (whoever they are) don't realize that it is through discussion we learn. I've enjoyed this thread very much and want to add my thanks.

 

[sunni]

A question I'm hoping a Catholic can answer as it has me confused. (Please tell me if I'm misunderstanding the Catholic communion)

This is how I understand it: The wine and bread are not symbolic of Christ's blood and body (like most Protestants believe), but He is actually present in them.

My question: If He is present in them, then wouldn't the taking of communion be the sacrificing of his body and blood all over again? Each and every time? Doesn't this go against the idea that Christ was crucified to atone for our sins once and for all time, a final sacrifice?

I look forward to your responses and I appreciate your patience with my questions.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by sunni This is how I understand it: The wine and bread are not symbolic of Christ's blood and body (like most Protestants believe), but He is actually present in them.

True.

CCC 1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation."

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Key word: transubstantiation.

Scroll down to "Eucharist" for more information in the CCC Index.

My question: If He is present in them, then wouldn't the taking of communion be the sacrificing of his body and blood all over again? Each and every time? Doesn't this go against the idea that Christ was crucified to atone for our sins once and for all time, a final sacrifice?

I'm not even going to make an attempt at answering that over the internet, however; I encourage you to visit EWTN Ask The Experts Forum. You can ask conservative RC "experts" questions, and can search their archive of questions and answers. You can probably find your answer there.

What is a Free Methodist? How are they different from other Methodists?

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Well I can say I was baptized presbyterian, confirmed UCC and am now methodist and have never heard the Lord's Prayer called the "Our Father". I learn something new every day! I can also say that in UCC we used "debts", but in my methodist church we say "Trespasses". And that when I'm in a catholic church for a funeral or whatever, I always says the "for thine is the kingdom..." part under my breath just because I'm ornery .
Robin M.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
You should during the Doxology: Mass-at least if it's a Latin rite mass. I don't know about other rites.



mmmmm. Holding hands during the Our Father. Which side of the debate are you on?

We do not say "thine is the kingdom" during the Our Father at our Mass. I don't need a link, I go to Church live and in person every week.

And I'm not holding hands during the Our Father, trust me. Other people at my Church have begun to over the last few years.

I'm not any either side of the debate because I don't think my religion is "right" and yours is "wrong." I don't care if you worship a space alien, so it amazes me how people spend any time in their lives in disagreement with other faiths. But then again, entire wars are the result of colliding religions throughout our history, so we shouldn't be surprised that things could get heated here on the DIS and that people would offer differing opinions.

Good thread and very enlightening.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

and praying to saints - we don't need an intercessor other than the Holy Spirit, God is more than able to hear our prayers and confessions and I haven't found anything in the Bible to support doing otherwise, though we are to pray for one another of course.

Then why do you pray for one another? How is that different than us asking the saints to pray for us? Do you feel it is different to ask them to pray since they are dead in body and your friends are alive in body?

I don't have time to address the rest of your post.....I will try to later, though.

Holy cow, though........I can't believe how many misconceptions exist about the Catholic faith!!

 

[Galahad]

I guess, back then, it depended on if the church was "high" or "low".

That's the way I remember it. I attended a "high" church Episcopal congregation (some there even referred to themselves as Anglicans) when I was in college and it was all very "Catholic".

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Rock'n Robin
Well I can say I was baptized presbyterian, confirmed UCC and am now methodist and have never heard the Lord's Prayer called the "Our Father". I learn something new every day! I can also say that in UCC we used "debts", but in my methodist church we say "Trespasses". And that when I'm in a catholic church for a funeral or whatever, I always says the "for thine is the kingdom..." part under my breath just because I'm ornery .
Robin M.

RR. In Dee's church (UCC), which I attend only under duress, they use "trespasses" instead of "debts". In fact they even state that in the little handout they give you each Sunday morning.

As to ornery, LOL, I say "forever and ever" in his church cause they stop at "forever".

 

[PamOKW]

Diva, are you in the Diocese of Bridgeport? In all the various Catholic churches in my area they have all begun adding "Thine is the kingdom" for at least the past 10 years. I'm surprised to hear that not all Catholic churches in the U.S. and certainly in CT are not on the same page with that one. We also have a mix of individuals that either hold hands with one another or raise their hands to God (like the priest). I think the people with their hands raised are part of the Charismatic movement. It's funny that we've gone from a church where every mass would be the same no matter where you attended to a variety of practices within one church.

Sunni, you really are asking for a complete explanation of the Catholic faith. I'm sure everyone here will try to answer your questions but if you truly are interested and what clear explanations, the ETWN link is a good one.

Here's a link to another site that can provide answers. I've put in the link to the section on Reconciliation.

Catholic Answers

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Diva, are you in the Diocese of Bridgeport? In all the various Catholic churches in my area they have all begun adding "Thine is the kingdom" for at least the past 10 years. I'm surprised to hear that not all Catholic churches in the U.S. and certainly in CT are not on the same page with that one. We also have a mix of individuals that either hold hands with one another or raise their hands to God (like the priest). I think the people with their hands raised are part of the Charismatic movement. It's funny that we've gone from a church where every mass would be the same no matter where you attended to a variety of practices within one church.

Sunni, you really are asking for a complete explanation of the Catholic faith. I'm sure everyone here will try to answer your questions but if you truly are interested and what clear explanations, the ETWN link is a good one.

We do not say "Thine is the Kingdom", but the priest himself concludes the prayer with that portion of it.

 

[Jennyfyar]

I don't understand the comments on holding hands during the Our Father/Lord's Prayer. For at least ten years we have held hands, joining the entire congregation in prayer. I like it. (I'm Catholic.)

On a side note, I noticed Patti Davis wearing cross earrings and a cross necklace on Friday. Ron did not bow his head during prayer.