Is Michael Reagan a Catholic?

[LScot]

OK, calm down and take deep breathes. I don't think we need to debate. Discuss, yes, but no need to get get upset IMO.

Saved. A word that gets people rather riled, I think. All being saved is means is having salvation through Christ's death and ressurrection & your beliefs in this. It is just a term and most Catholics I know fit under that description but don't use the term. (Next time they knock on your door, tell them you are already saved. LOL) The Bible says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." I believe that is why the phrase is used.
No biggie (as far as usage of the term).

I've copied and pasted my own thoughts on dying and going to Heaven:

Being a nice person and doing good things is what a Christian should want to do, if you truly give your heart to the Lord, you do those because He dwells within you. Sure, you'll still screw up. You don't do good things to insure your entrance into Heaven. God doesn't bribe us into Heaven. He doesn't say, "if you'll be good, I'll let you in." He says, "If you'll accept my son, Jesus Christ, as savior and Lord--knowing that He died and rose again for your sin and ask him into your life you will be saved". Saved from what? Saved from eternal separation from God when you die.
I just wonder if it was about being good and doing good--how good would one need to be? And what if everyone is better than me? How might "being good" be measured? And why, oh why, would Christ have died on the cross when all that had to happen was for me to be enough?

And on this quote:"
So if I were Southern Baptist and accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior once---- I'm in the clear? So I can break moral codes or "commandments" all over the place but the Kingdom of Heaven is mine because I went to a Church that declared me "saved"?
Seems kind of easy......"



Since I am SB I'll tell you. Yes. Once I have truly accepted the gift of salvation from God through Jesus, I am saved. I am assured of Heaven someday.

But, more importantly, I am able to have an immediate relationship with Christ while I am on this earth.

So, if I have really accepted Christ as my Savior, I will try my best to be Christlike (ie. being a good person) but I'll still screw up and I'll still break the commandments. And I will do what you do when you break a commandment and screw up. I'll ask for forgiveness and try my darnest to do better. Only I'll ask God directly while you go through the Priest. Nothing wrong with that--we just go about it two different ways--the important thing is that we confess.

And salvation is easy. It is free and it is easy. Living a Christlike life is very hard. But what Christ did on the cross was the hardest part. If a person is really "saved" they won't want to walk around all day breaking commandments thinking,''Ha! Ain't this the life. I can do all the evil I want and I still have a free ticket to Heaven." NO! That is just not the way it is and if you interpret it that way, I can tell you, you are wrong. Being saved is not a crutch. And besides, God knows our hearts.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Divamomto3 I was sincerely asking a question out of genuine curiosity as I find it interesting and educational when other people tell me their point of view about something.

If you want to learn about Baptist beliefs then check the SBC website. For an explantion of eternal security theology then Jean Calvin is the one to read: Institutes of the Christian Religion. Or contact a Baptist minister in your area and ask him the reasons why he believes in eternal security. Billy Graham probably has a book on the subject as well, so you might try your local library or book shop.

So sorry to offend, but again, out of curiosity...how come no hand slap for the OP who stated "Catholics are misguided."?

I wasn't offended by your posts, and I am not "hand-slapping", I just aksing people to refrain from turning this thread into a religious debate. The other poster stated "RCs are misguided" as an opinion.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by LScot
OK, calm down and take deep breathes. I don't think we need to debate. Discuss, yes, but no need to get get upset IMO.

Saved. A word that gets people rather riled, I think. All being saved is means is having salvation through Christ's death and ressurrection & your beliefs in this. It is just a term and most Catholics I know fit under that description but don't use the term. (Next time they knock on your door, tell them you are already saved. LOL) The Bible says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." I believe that is why the phrase is used.
No biggie (as far as usage of the term).

I've copied and pasted my own thoughts on dying and going to Heaven:

Being a nice person and doing good things is what a Christian should want to do, if you truly give your heart to the Lord, you do those because He dwells within you. Sure, you'll still screw up. You don't do good things to insure your entrance into Heaven. God doesn't bribe us into Heaven. He doesn't say, "if you'll be good, I'll let you in." He says, "If you'll accept my son, Jesus Christ, as savior and Lord--knowing that He died and rose again for your sin and ask him into your life you will be saved". Saved from what? Saved from eternal separation from God when you die.
I just wonder if it was about being good and doing good--how good would one need to be? And what if everyone is better than me? How might "being good" be measured? And why, oh why, would Christ have died on the cross when all that had to happen was for me to be enough?

And on this quote:"
So if I were Southern Baptist and accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior once---- I'm in the clear? So I can break moral codes or "commandments" all over the place but the Kingdom of Heaven is mine because I went to a Church that declared me "saved"?
Seems kind of easy......"



Since I am SB I'll tell you. Yes. Once I have truly accepted the gift of salvation from God through Jesus, I am saved. I am assured of Heaven someday.

But, more importantly, I am able to have an immediate relationship with Christ while I am on this earth.

So, if I have really accepted Christ as my Savior, I will try my best to be Christlike (ie. being a good person) but I'll still screw up and I'll still break the commandments. And I will do what you do when you break a commandment and screw up. I'll ask for forgiveness and try my darnest to do better. Only I'll ask God directly while you go through the Priest. Nothing wrong with that--we just go about it two different ways--the important thing is that we confess.

And salvation is easy. It is free and it is easy. Living a Christlike life is very hard. But what Christ did on the cross was the hardest part. If a person is really "saved" they won't want to walk around all day breaking commandments thinking,''Ha! Ain't this the life. I can do all the evil I want and I still have a free ticket to Heaven." NO! That is just not the way it is and if you interpret it that way, I can tell you, you are wrong. Being saved is not a crutch. And besides, God knows our hearts.

All excellent point and an eloquent explanation. While according to my religion, I am supposed to go through a Priest for forgiveness, it isn't something I do comfortably or easily. Many times I ask for private forgiveness, although in a Catholic's eyes, this "doesn't count." I'm Catholic because that's what I was born into, and while I love and trust and honor a lot of it, there is some that I don't. I try to just believe in Jesus and live a good life. I am interested in the beliefs of others because I don't think there is one "right" religion.

As far as us DIS'ers getting riled, I couldn't agree more..this isn't the place for it. That's why I never went to the debate board...I just want Mickey and Pixie Dust when I come here. But if there is a topic I'm interested in or knowledgable on, I will comment. I just like to hear others opinions, but in no way wish to bash anybody. But if you post something on a public board, even if it's "your" thread, people are going to respond and maybe not always agree with you.

 

[LScot]

Divamomto3,

I suppose both Diane and myself saw your post as being "upset". Sorry about that. The next post explained how you felt much better.
The thing about it is, is that we can agree to disagree in a nice way. I suppose when we all believe in something very strongly, we can get defensive very easily. I know I can & do. But I try to keep a level head.

I love discussing faith. I do believe there is a right religion and that would be Christianity. Not Baptist. Christianity. Baptist is a denomination within my religion.

I don't care how others believe (as in everyone has their own views--I do care in the aspect as I am curious) and I can learn a lot from discussions like these. I'm not going to thump someone over the head with my Bible. That isn't the way that I am. But I'll voice my personal beliefs and go on.

I'll get flamed for thinking there is only one way to God (Jesus Christ) and that is fine because all I have to go on is what I read in the book I have chosen to put my faith in, the Bible. And if someone else's Bible reads another way or they don't agree that Jesus Christ died for this specific purpose, that is fine and that is their right.

I learn from discussions like these. And I happen to believe we can discuss them nicely.

And about that part about not telling the Priest everything. I am sorta glad to hear you say that because I'm thinking that would keep me from becoming Catholic. LOL I would REALLY struggle with that. (Obviously, I do a lot of wrong stuff, huh? LOL) I have wondered how people feel about spilling your guts to another human being. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it is a bad idea to tell someone else. I just think I'd struggle with being totally honest.

 

[Divamomto3]

LScot,
Well, I was upset at first. I was originally merely trying to say that Michael Reagan can be Catholic and not have to eulogize his father by pleading for his soul. I think the purpose of a child's eulogy to a parent is to provide a touching remembrance of the person, especially if the person was the President of the United States. Michael, Patti, and Ron wanted the world to know that Ronald Reagan was their father and wanted to provide a glimpse of some intimate rememberances. I don't think their speeches had to fit a certain religious prototype.

I, too, like to learn about other people's beliefs, whether it be something as serious as religion or something as inane as which Disney resort people like to stay in. Sometimes Swan vs. Beach Club debates can be as passionate as Catholic vs. Protestant.

I was also miffed that I was singled out as turning someone's thread into a "debate" when there were several posters prior to me that made grand, sweeping generalizations about Catholics and one that stated she felt "Catholics were misguided." I was merely interested in which areas she felt we were.

Believe it or not, I find most Catholics to generally believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (hence, the sign of the Cross..it's not just a sign of "respect" but a show of the belief in the Holy Trinity.) And I find most Catholics are Catholics because they were born that way. We're used to the rituals and holidays, the Mass that hasn't changed much throughout our lives, etc. Aside from those in the religious life, I'd bet that there is a very small percentage of Catholics that day to day think about Purgatory or whether or not their soul is saved. Most can probably not even quote a Bible passage. Our religious education is very limited in the area of memorizing the Bible. While seen to be such a pious lot, I'd say such is not the case.

If I had to learn about all the religions now and chose one for myself to follow to the letter, I wonder if Catholicism would be the one I would choose? But for me, to change now, would be like changing my entire ethnicity, not just my religion.

Thanks for being so kind.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by kadaten
At my Catholic school, we WERE taught that anyone who believes in Jesus Christ is a Christian!! BUT, they also teach that the Catholic church is the TRUE church ... yada yada yada .... that others have fallen away or moved away from the original teachings ..... yada yada yada .... is that what you're referring to or have some Catholics actually told you that being Episcopalian you're not Christian?

What are others taught in their churches about other religions? I'm very interested to know!

Yep, that is what I was told by a Roman Catholic priest. Long story and won't go into the details, but, I was told because I was NOT a RC I was not a true Christian.

I was taught that anyone that believe in Jesus and the Holy Trinity were Christians.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by 6_Time_Momma
I have never heard any Catholic calling other denominations non-Catholic, although like jennyfyar, I have definitely heard Catholics being referred to as non-Christian.

Gail, you've heard Catholics actually say you weren't Christian?? People boggle my mins aometimes!

Yes, Kristy that is what I have been told, and by a Roman Catholic priest too boot. Yes, it does boggle the mind.

 

[PamOKW]

Somewhere in the middle here I saw a reply that I think is probably the reason for making the sign of the cross by Michael Reagan. Most likely he was raised a Roman Catholic as that was Jane Wyman's background. (However, since she was married four times I don't think she was a practicing Catholic in her later years.) He is now an Evangelical Christian of some type -- I think the poster had his church.

At a Catholic funeral service, it would be highly likely that the person would be referred to as being in Heaven. Of course, there is the understanding that something may keep this person in Purgatory first so we pray for the souls of all the dead.

There are a lot of very simplistic comments about the Catholic religion posted here. Those who are really interested can do additional research for further clarity. One misunderstanding may be about confession. We are not confessing to a man -- we are confessing to God through the intercession of the priest. And, it is a hard thing to go and do. Just like going to the doctor is something we often put off. There was also a period of time when some priests de-emphasized confession (now referred to as reconciliation) and people fell out of the practice of going regularly. It is hard to do. However, the Church is now stressing the importance once again and encouraging people to return to this sacrament.

I did a quick search to try and see if I could find the current religious background of Ron and Patti. I didn't come up with anything. However, if memory serves, I don't think either of them are Christian unless they have returned to their parent's faith. I seem to recall one or both of them being Buddhists.

 

[LScot]

Divamomto3,

Thanks for telling me about the sign of the cross. I didn't know what it meant. I knew that when as a child I went to VBS at my friend's Catholic church, that before anyone went all the way to the front of that santuary, they bowed (like) and made that sign. I guess that was why I thought it might have something to do with showing God respect. And see, now I know.

I appreciate your thoughts and kind posts also.

 

[LScot]

Oh, that was me. Confessing to a man. Call it what you will, a priest , to me, is still a man. Called of God, no doubt. He is still human and not unlike any of us with sin in his life too.

Although, I do remember my friend telling me she would go in there and say, "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned." And then I suppose she told him her sin(s). So, like, is he supposed to be God when in there? Mind you I'm not saying this as a smart aleck. I'm asking a question to learn. I mean, it was here I learned that Catholics believe the bread and wine are truly the body and blood. I do learn things around here.

Or is the priest strictly a man you are going through to tell God? Nope, I'm confusing myself. You'll just have to tell me about this.

See, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is our High Priest. So, that is where I get my belief from. When Christ died on the cross the veil to the Holy of Holies was torn in two. Very symbolic as back then, only the High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies, which housed the Ark of the Covenent for one thing, which was God's dwelling place on earth.

Anyway, I have no doubt how hard it is. It is hard enough to confess to God but since he knows anyway, it is more about owning up to it. Where as with a man, well, you'd have to trust him with a secret. You'd have to face him and what he might possibly think of you. I am sure Priest are "better than that" and have less trouble knowing people's secrets than I'm giving them credit for!

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by PamOKW


At a Catholic funeral service, it would be highly likely that the person would be referred to as being in Heaven. Of course, there is the understanding that something may keep this person in Purgatory first so we pray for the souls of all the dead.

.

Thankfully, it's been a few years since I've attended a funeral. Am I just not paying attention? I could swear that I've heard phrases like "She's now with our Heavenly Father"...etc etc. Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. I never worry about any of my dead relatives being in Purgatory.

As far as the confession misconceptions...you are right Pam, but I didn't want to make any more waves than I already did!

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by LScot
Divamomto3,

Thanks for telling me about the sign of the cross. I didn't know what it meant. I knew that when as a child I went to VBS at my friend's Catholic church, that before anyone went all the way to the front of that santuary, they bowed (like) and made that sign. I guess that was why I thought it might have something to do with showing God respect. And see, now I know.

I appreciate your thoughts and kind posts also.

You're welcome. When you see a Catholic touch their forehead they are saying, "In the name of the Father", their heart..."and of the son," and their left shoulder..."and of the Holy Spirit", and their right shoulder..."Amen."

 

[PamOKW]

Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations. He gave his power to the apostles, and it was a power that could be passed on to their successors and agents, since the apostles wouldn’t always be on earth either, but people would still be sinning.

Priests are the descendants of Jesus and the apostles and the Holy Spirit is acting through them to forgive sins. A priest will be the first to tell you that he himself, as a man, is not without sin. He is not God but God is working through him. A priest who would divulge what he is told in confession, is not a priest. (There are very rare circumstances and procedures if someone were to confess something like a plan to murder someone.)

Just like the belief that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist -- it is a matter of faith.

As to the Catholic/Christian debate. Pre-Vatican II, I don't think Catholics wanted to be referred to as "Christians" but rather more defined as Roman Catholic Christians. I remember my father saying he and his friends were forbidden from going to the YMCA. Post-Vatican II, there is a strong Ecumenical movement and a hope of bringing all Christians together. The Catholic Church has even made changes to bring us closer to other Christian denominations on points where we agree. During the same time period, and even in some places today, there are Christians who discriminate against Catholics.

As I said, it's hard to put all the theology on a message board and there are points that I sometimes have to clarify myself. (One reason these discussions are educational.)

We also believe that non-Catholics can go to Heaven if the have lived just lives. As I recently heard it explained, if a person lives on a remote mountaintop of Tibet and lives a good and just life having never had the opportunity to learn of Jesus, God may very well take them to Heaven quicker than the person who heard of Jesus' teachings but turned away from them.

 

[N.Bailey]

I know we all get our feelings hurt and we get very defensive when someone attacks, or we at least think they're attacking our beliefs. One thing, IMO, we all need to remember is, we all think our beliefs are right. If we didn't think they were right, we wouldn't have them to begin with. Most of us are very passionate about our beliefs too. I know I am anyway! I think we need to try and remember this at times when you hear someone make a comment like, I believe Catholics are misguided. I don't take that as an attack to Catholics, I take it that this person truly believes their way of thinking is correct, and says this possibly in hopes of getting others to come around to their way of thinking. I really don't take any of the criticisms I've heard on this entire thread as insulting. I see them as attempts by clergy, or at times, members of this board to hopefully steer someone in what they think is the right direction.

At times, that can be a little insulting, but if we remember that it's not animosity, we'd maybe not get so upset.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by LScot
Divamomto3,

I went to VBS at my friend's Catholic church, that before anyone went all the way to the front of that santuary, they bowed (like) and made that sign. I guess that was why I thought it might have something to do with showing God respect. And see, now I know.

I appreciate your thoughts and kind posts also.

This goes back to the real presence of Christ. There is a tabernacle "in a place of prominence" -- usually in the middle or to the right of the altar. Conscecrated hosts (bread) are kept in there -- therefore God is truly present in the Church. Catholics should genuflect or bow before entering the pew as a sign of respect and acknowledgement to that presence. The priests, altar boys & girls, etc. also genuflect or bow every time they cross in front of the tabernacle.

Now, a question for you...what's VBS?

 

[Rock'n Robin]

To try and help answer the original question--in the People magazine article about Reagan, Michael Reagan is quoted as saying that after he arrived at the home and his father had already passed, he said an "Our Father". That is a catholic prayer, I believe. However, with the other information here that may be a holdover from a catholic upbringing.
VBS means "vacation Bible School". We used to get a lot of catholic kids at our methodist VBS until the local parish caught on and started offering their own VBS last year.
As for the crossing himself thing, I picked that up from my DH's family and tend to do it more as a "warding off evil" thing--protecting myself with the cross, if you will. If I drive by a hearse I will cross myself, for example.
Robin M.

 

[sunni]

quote:
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Originally posted by sunni

It's sad that there are people on both sides that seem to want the others doomed to hell, as if being correct is more important than souls ("see, I was right! they are in hell... HA!" can you imagine? ) Sadly, when my children were in Catholic school one particular teacher loved to take digs at Protestants, emphasizing hell was for those who died without being baptized or going to confession, making little comments... but I know she didn't represent all Catholics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by N.Bailey
I don't agree with that statement at all. I don't think either side wants to see the other go to hell. That to me is why both sides keep trying to entice the other to their way of thinking. Both sides believe they are so right (that's the choice all of us must make on our own), but it's really not about being right, it's about salvation for all. Least that's my take on it all anyway.

N.Bailey, please note that I said "there are people on both sides" that seem to feel that way. I did not say both sides felt that way, as if everyone was of the same mind. By their actions some people show that they are less concerned for souls saved than they are about being proven correct. I'm not God and therefore won't be sitting in judgement in the end, but I'm guessing they shouldn't feel so smug.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by sunni
N.Bailey, please note that I said "there are people on both sides" that seem to feel that way. I did not say both sides felt that way, as if everyone was of the same mind. By their actions some people show that they are less concerned for souls saved than they are about being proven correct. I'm not God and therefore won't be sitting in judgement in the end, but I'm guessing they shouldn't feel so smug.

Ok, I'll concede that point.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by PamOKW Now, a question for you...what's VBS?

Vacation Bible School. These happen in the summer and in the church where I grew up they were a week in duration and are for children (K-5th grade). You spent a few hours in church learning about Jesus, studying the Bible, making crafts, etc.

I didn't really enjoy it much when I was a child, but I do still have some of the crafts that my classes made througout the years.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Rock'n Robin To try and help answer the original question--in the People magazine article about Reagan, Michael Reagan is quoted as saying that after he arrived at the home and his father had already passed, he said an "Our Father". That is a catholic prayer, I believe. However, with the other information here that may be a holdover from a catholic upbringing.

The "Our Father" is actually the Lord's Prayer found in the Gospel of Matthew that all Christians pray. I strongly suspect that he and Maureen were brought up as RCs.

diane