Is Michael Reagan a Catholic?

[Jennyfyar]

I am Catholic, born and raised. Never have I heard another Catholic refer to a person of a different religion as a non-Christian. But, living in GA, I regularly hear that Catholics are not Christians.

I also assumed Michael Reagan is Catholic because he crossed himself.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I have never heard any Catholic calling other denominations non-Catholic, although like jennyfyar, I have definitely heard Catholics being referred to as non-Christian.

Gail, you've heard Catholics actually say you weren't Christian?? People boggle my mins aometimes!

 

[N.Bailey]

Let me see if I can help shed some light on this subject. I might not help though!

Catholics believe salvation comes from dying without a mortal sin on your soul. This is the reason they rush priests to the bedside of those dying.

Christians believe you must accept Christ as your savior for salvation. From my understanding, most believe that once you're saved, you're always saved. Some however, believe that you can lose that salvation. (I would be curious to know their reasoning)

Both Catholic and Protestant faiths follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, so they are all Christians. One side wants to help the other obtain their salvation, but both side believes their side is right.

To the person who said that the Catholic Church was the 1st and true church, I was told the same thing when I went through catechism. The other side however, believe that the Catholic Church started teaching against the word that the Bible tells us, so they will acknowledge that the Catholic Church was the 1st church, but that they teach a lot of man made laws, so they do not feel guilty for leaving and starting other churches.

edited to add: Some protestants believe the word "Christian" means accepting the Lord as savior. I did once read it defined as such when I looked the word up online, but most say that Christian means, following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Maybe that helps explain it a little more?

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by gardendame Just curious, but how is a Catholic eulogy supposed to sound? I'm not catholic, obviously, so I was not sure what you meant by this.

Well, Catholics do not believe that they know that they are going to Heaven as Michael proclaims that he does (see article linked below). The RCC does not teach "Once Saved Always Saved", and the majority of Catholics believe that they will be making a stop in Purgatory for who knows how long. The eulogy, in my view, does not line up with Catholic teaching.

Perhaps the following article will explain this better than I: Assurance of Salvation.

Originally posted by kadaten Slightly off topic: WHY do some people say Christian like it's a different religion from Catholicism? . . .

This website will explain this position to you. You will find several more sites like this on their links page.

accomp, thanks for the link. Perhaps he crosses himself out of habit. If Wyman was an RC then, in all likelyhood, both Maureen and Michael were raised as a RCs as well.

CEDmom, I just ask out of curiosity

 

[WDWLVR]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
Well, Catholics do not believe that they know that they are going to Heaven as Michael proclaims that he does (see article linked below). The RCC does not teach "Once Saved Always Saved", and the majority of Catholics believe that they will be making a stop in Purgatory for who knows how long. The eulogy, in my view, does not line up with Catholic teaching.

I would disagree with this to a point. Yes being Roman Catholic I believe in Purgatory. What time is spent there however is never defined and I personally believe that time is also served here on earth. For example my dear Mother died at the age of 68 of Lung Cancer. It is my belief that whatever sins she may have committed in her life were well attoned for during the 6 months of suffering from diagnosis to death. It was my belief that her stop in Purgatory was very, very brief and she was welcomed quickly into heaven.

Perhaps Michael looked at the last 10 years of his fathers life in the same way.

 

[N.Bailey]

I just wanted to give the Protestant prospective to anyone who may have read the above link that Elton John just gave. Here was one of paragraph that I especially wanted to rebut:

<b><i>For many Fundamentalists and Evangelicals it makes no difference—as far as salvation is concerned—how you live or end your life. You can heed the altar call at church, announce that you’ve accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, and, so long as you really believe it, you’re set. From that point on there is nothing you can do, no sin you can commit, no matter how heinous, that will forfeit your salvation. You can’t undo your salvation, even if you wanted to. </b></i>

Most people of Protestant faith, those that have accepted Christ as their savior, who do not believe you can lose salvation would argue, if anyone could commit a heinous crime as described above, probably was never truly saved in the first place. How could you commit such an act if Christ lives inside of you?

There is a BIG difference between having the head knowledge of what the Bible says, and actually believing what is says. Head knowledge alone will get you nowhere.

 

[Alice28]

I happened to notice this as well, while following the services. Michael's eulogy seemed to stem from a fundamental Protestant background, and then he crossed himself while looking at the casket which struck me as a more Catholic expression. My thoughts were that perhaps growing up he attended Catholic or Episcopalian church and then as an adult perhaps he adopted a more fundalmentalist viewpoint- not going to a priest to confess one's sin, having a more personal relationship with Christ, i.e confessing your own sin and not having a church/priest to go through per se to seek forgiveness. Perhaps he kind of just kept some of the rituals he learned at a Catholic or other denomination church. And nothing is wrong with the rituals as long as one has a firm grasp on the fundamentals of what they believe.

Growing up in a (very large but not charismatic) fundamentalist non-denominational church, we did not view other denominations that believed in Christ as their savior as "not Christian." As a fundamentalist Christian we were taught to believe that you can personally accept Christ in your heart as your savior and confess your own sins and seek ways to please God on one's own- not through following church-based rituals. We also believe that one immediately goes to heaven upon death if s/he was a believer in Christ- no purgatory. (Which is why I thought Michael was more of a fundamentalist because he referred to his father sitting in heaven right now and immediately went from giving his wife one last loving look to smiling at the eyes of God the next instant). It's more of a direct way of communicating with God and seeking His wisdom. Of course one is expected to go to church and worship and fellowship with others and live by Christ's example. While most Protestant Christians believe once saved, always saved, it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want once you are saved- it means striving to be Christlike every day, although of course we are not, nor pretend to be, perfect.

I hope I offended no one with my wordy explanation. I tried to be as thoughtful as possible (I'm watching my p's and q's as I made a flippant remark on another board and got FLAMED---sometimes it's so hard to interpret what people write on these boards cause you cannot convey tone---)

 

[CEDmom]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
Well, Catholics do not believe that they know that they are going to Heaven as Michael proclaims that he does (see article linked below). The RCC does not teach "Once Saved Always Saved", and the majority of Catholics believe that they will be making a stop in Purgatory for who knows how long. The eulogy, in my view, does not line up with Catholic teaching.

Wow, this is news to every Catholic I know. Although I'm not Catholic my DH is and most of our friends are as well as of course his entire family. They all believe they're going to heaven. Yes, some Catholics believe in purgatory but the ones I know understand the final destination is heaven.

 

[sunni]

Originally posted by kadaten
[BAs for the OP....you'll have to explain what you meant by "his eulogy certainly did not sound like it comes from a Catholic man". I've been to a lot of funerals, Catholic and non, and don't remember the Catholic eulogies sounding any different in content or tone.... What caught your ear?[/B]

I can't speak for the OP but perhaps that post was a reference to the fact that there wasn't mention of praying for Reagan's soul in Michael's eulogy. I don't know about all Protestant churches, but I know most don't believe in purgatory and that once you're dead it's a bit too late for prayers. The Catholic funeral masses I've been to have prayed for the soul of the deceased.

As for the Catholic/Protestant/Christian thing: IMO there are Christians in both the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches and there are also many unsaved souls in both the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. Going to church and following the church doesn't gain you entrance into heaven. "I'm a good Catholic" or "I'm a good Baptist (or other Protestant)" doesn't mean diddly to God come judgement day. He wants to know if His Son was the Lord of your life, the One you worshipped, adored and followed.

I will admit I feel Roman Catholics are very misguided, that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, but I don't think that is going to send them to hell. I know Catholics that I'll be dancing with in heaven! It's sad that there are people on both sides that seem to want the others doomed to hell, as if being correct is more important than souls ("see, I was right! they are in hell... HA!" can you imagine? ) Sadly, when my children were in Catholic school one particular teacher loved to take digs at Protestants, emphasizing hell was for those who died without being baptized or going to confession, making little comments... but I know she didn't represent all Catholics.

 

[LScot]

N. Bailey,
I totally agree.

And if you didn't want to be a Christian and denounced God and Jesus Christ, I believe He'd let you have your way. I'd still wonder about the salvation experience in the first place but I do believe if your committed blasphamy, you'd be seperated from God forever when you die.

I believe there are probably both Catholics and Baptists (and others) who believe each other aren't Christian. But, I don't think the majority do.

I think we often confuse the terms "religion and denomination". I believe Catholic and Baptists (and others) are all of the Christian faith, they are just different denominations of that faith.

My take on suffering here on earth and purgatory are this: Everyone suffers in this life. God lets it rain on everyone--the "just and the unjust". We all have burdens to carry and pain to suffer through. Some more than others.

This, to me, has nothing to do with readying you for Heaven. Christ paid the price for people to go to Heaven. Nothing else matters. No amount of good works that you do here lets you in the gate. No amount of suffering. Christ's death was enough.

Being a nice person and doing good things is what a Christian should want to do, if you truly give your heart to the Lord, you do those because He dwells within you. Sure, you'll still screw up. You don't do good things to insure your entrance into Heaven. God doesn't bribe us into Heaven. He doesn't say, "if you'll be good, I'll let you in." He says, "If you'll accept my son, Jesus Christ, as savior and Lord--knowing that He died and rose again for your sin and ask him into your life you will be saved". Saved from what? Saved from eternal separation from God when you die.

I know dmadman disagrees with me on this as do many others I am sure. I just feel the need to stress that what I believe is that Christ's death and resurrection was enough. God doesn't need us to "help" Him help ourselves into Heaven. We just always think God "needs" our help! LOL Again, this is only MHO and others will disagree and that is fine. But, I feel this is what the Bible teaches us and that it may be food for thought for some people to read.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by CEDmom
Wow, this is news to every Catholic I know. Although I'm not Catholic my DH is and most of our friends are as well as of course his entire family. They all believe they're going to heaven. Yes, some Catholics believe in purgatory but the ones I know understand the final destination is heaven.

I don't think EltonJohn meant that Catholics don't believe they are going to heaven. Of course they do. I think the point he was trying to make though is, Catholic's believe that they cannot die with a mortal sin on their soul. If they would, according to the Catholic teachings, they would not enter The Kingdom Of Heaven. This is why it's so important to go to confession regularly, and why a priest is rushed to your side if it's possible to have one. Because of this, I don't see how anyone who is Catholic can say without any doubt that they are going to Heaven. Of course, they strive for it and probably do believe they will. There is no man who can keep the commandments. We all break them (granted, some more than others), but we all do break them. Jesus was the only one who didn't. I'm sure someone who has Christ in there life strives hard to obey his commandments, and I'm 100% certain, we'll see both Catholics and Protestants in Heaven.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by sunni

It's sad that there are people on both sides that seem to want the others doomed to hell, as if being correct is more important than souls ("see, I was right! they are in hell... HA!" can you imagine? ) Sadly, when my children were in Catholic school one particular teacher loved to take digs at Protestants, emphasizing hell was for those who died without being baptized or going to confession, making little comments... but I know she didn't represent all Catholics.

I don't agree with that statement at all. I don't think either side wants to see the other go to hell. That to me is why both sides keep trying to entice the other to their way of thinking. Both sides believe they are so right (that's the choice all of us must make on our own), but it's really not about being right, it's about salvation for all. Least that's my take on it all anyway.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Alice28 I happened to notice this as well, while following the services. Michael's eulogy seemed to stem from a fundamental Protestant background, and then he crossed himself while looking at the casket which struck me as a more Catholic expression.

My thoughts exactly! The Eulogy sounds like it was written by a person who believes in "Once Saved Always Saved", yet the RCC does not teach that. Thank you.

Originally posted by CEDmom Wow, this is news to every Catholic I know. Although I'm not Catholic my DH is and most of our friends are as well as of course his entire family. They all believe they're going to heaven. Yes, some Catholics believe in purgatory but the ones I know understand the final destination is heaven.

It shouldn't news to you. Salvation is a process according to the Vatican. Assurance of Salvation should explain the Catholic position to you. Then, for RCs, their is mortal sin. How does an RC know that he will be in a "state of grace" when his last hour is upon him? This is, of course, why the Hail Mary prayer contains the line "Pray for me know, and at the hour of my death." In other Christian traditions, such as Southern Baptists, salvation is viewed as a one-time event where you accept Christ has your Lord and Saviour. It appears that Michael is of that belief-that salvation is a one-time event as oppossed to a process.

Originally posted by sunni I can't speak for the OP but perhaps that post was a reference to the fact that there wasn't mention of praying for Reagan's soul in Michael's eulogy.

Nope, but now that you mention it . . .

As for the Catholic/Protestant/Christian thing: IMO there are Christians in both the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches and there are also many unsaved souls in both the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. Going to church and following the church doesn't gain you entrance into heaven. "I'm a good Catholic" or "I'm a good Baptist (or other Protestant)" doesn't mean diddly to God come judgement day. He wants to know if His Son was the Lord of your life, the One you worshipped, adored and followed.

I will admit I feel Roman Catholics are very misguided, that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, but I don't think that is going to send them to hell. I know Catholics that I'll be dancing with in heaven! It's sad that there are people on both sides that seem to want the others doomed to hell, as if being correct is more important than souls ("see, I was right! they are in hell... HA!" can you imagine? ) Sadly, when my children were in Catholic school one particular teacher loved to take digs at Protestants, emphasizing hell was for those who died without being baptized or going to confession, making little comments... but I know she didn't represent all Catholics.

Well said.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by N.Bailey I don't think EltonJohn meant that Catholics don't believe they are going to heaven. Of course they do. I think the point he was trying to make though is, Catholic's believe that they cannot die with a mortal sin on their soul. If they would, according to the Catholic teachings, they would not enter The Kingdom Of Heaven. This is why it's so important to go to confession regularly, and why a priest is rushed to your side if it's possible to have one. Because of this, I don't see how anyone who is Catholic can say without any doubt that they are going to Heaven. Of course, they strive for it and probably do believe they will.

Thank you. You captured my point. BTW, I'm a girl

diane

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
Thank you. You captured my point. BTW, I'm a girl

diane

SORRY! I thought for sure once I'd get it right!

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by sunni


I will admit I feel Roman Catholics are very misguided, that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, but I don't think that is going to send them to hell. I know Catholics that I'll be dancing with in heaven! It's sad that there are people on both sides that seem to want the others doomed to hell, as if being correct is more important than souls ("see, I was right! they are in hell... HA!" can you imagine? ) Sadly, when my children were in Catholic school one particular teacher loved to take digs at Protestants, emphasizing hell was for those who died without being baptized or going to confession, making little comments... but I know she didn't represent all Catholics.

Just curious...what are we misguided about?

I went to Catholic School and my children go to Catholic school right now. I have never been taught that there was anything wrong with anyone else's religion and certainly have never been told anyone else was going to Hell for their beliefs. However, many Bible thumping Christians are always talking about being "saved"...whatever that is supposed to mean. And I'm bombarded with door to door Jehovah's Witnesses and the Church of the Latterday Saints trying to convert me with their pamplets. Do they ever actually get anyone to join their Churches by knocking on their doors? As far as being "saved", I'm a firm believer in that it's how you live your life...how nice and kind you are to people, how un-prejudiced you are, how much you try to help mankind, that gets you a good spot in the afterlife.
Plenty of those "saved" people hate African Americans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, etc.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by sunni
I can't speak for the OP but perhaps that post was a reference to the fact that there wasn't mention of praying for Reagan's soul in Michael's eulogy.

If my father died, he'd have the Sacrament of the Sick (formerly known as Last Rites) before he died, a Catholic Funeral Mass, and burial in a Catholic Cemetary. If I gave a eulogy, I wouldn't once mention praying for his soul. I'd instead do what Michael and all the Reagan children did. I'd talk about what a great father he was, all the fun we had, and how I couldn't wait to see him in Heaven and what I thought he might already be doing up there. A Priest at a funeral would no doubt talk about praying for souls, but not many children would think to talk about that in their eulogies.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
This is, of course, why the Hail Mary prayer contains the line "Pray for me know, and at the hour of my death." In other Christian traditions, such as Southern Baptists, salvation is viewed as a one-time event where you accept Christ has your Lord and Saviour. It appears that Michael is of that belief-that salvation is a one-time event as oppossed to a process.

So if I were Southern Baptist and accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior once---- I'm in the clear? So I can break moral codes or "commandments" all over the place but the Kingdom of Heaven is mine because I went to a Church that declared me "saved"?
Seems kind of easy......

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Divamomto3 Just curious...what are we misguided about?

Can we please not turn this into a debate thread about the RCC? There are plenty of sites that are dedicated to that already, and I'll be more than happy to share them with you all.

TIA

Originally posted by Divamomto3 So if I were Southern Baptist and accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior once---- I'm in the clear? So I can break moral codes or "commandments" all over the place but the Kingdom of Heaven is mine because I went to a Church that declared me "saved"?
Seems kind of easy......

If you would like to debate Protestant theology then are plenty of people willing to discuss these things with you at other message baords such as Rapture Ready of the Baptist Boards. Good luck.

I do not wish my thread to turn into a religious debate.

diane

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
Can we please not turn this into a debate thread about the RCC? There are plenty of sites that are dedicated to that already, and I'll be more than happy to share them with you all.

TIA



If you would like to debate Protestant theology then are plenty of people willing to discuss these things with you at other message baords such as Rapture Ready of the Baptist Boards. Good luck.

I do not wish my thread to turn into a religious debate.

diane

Whoaaa! You've got the wrong girl here. I'm not a rabid, mean debater! I was sincerely asking a question out of genuine curiosity as I find it interesting and educational when other people tell me their point of view about something. So sorry to offend, but again, out of curiosity...how come no hand slap for the OP who stated "Catholics are misguided."?