Is it wrong to spank your child?

[Southern4sure]

Just subscribing to the thread.....

 

[glass-slipper]

That may be abuse in your eyes, but I doubt it's abuse in the law's eyes.

At what age? I guess as long as that form of punishment works.

I was spanked in elementary school as well and I survived unscathed. I think for my generation, it made us abide by the rules set by the school.

Crime is going up everywhere. Schools and otherwise. What do you attribute these statistics to?

I am 38 years old and while I lived in an era (my school days) where most schools had the authority to spank, I have never once seen anything resembling abuse. I would fully support the dismissal of any employee that abused anyone, no matter what the position that employee held.

Believe you me, I am dead set against anyone abusing a child or anyone else (fully support the death penalty for premeditated murder), but I firmly believe when you have a little rugrat on your hands, it's your duty to do all you can to make them a productive citizen.

Children are as different as day and night and what works for one child might not work for another. Thus the reason I clearly state, there is NO manual out there for rearing a child.

The spankings this particular teacher administered were beatings. She punished when she was in a full temper and swung with considerable force, so yes, that was abuse in my eyes and apparently also in the eyes of the law because it is now illegal and has been here for over 30 years.

As far as the rise in crime question, why ask me if according to this very poll more people spank than don't? Doesn't seem to be working, does it?

 

[Tigger&Belle]

DH and and I do not yet have children. We plan to have a famlily as soon as the Lord blesses us with one. We have had discussions about spanking and other forms of discipline, and neither of us have a problem with spanking. We do recognize it as a form of discipline.

However, we also recognize that each child is unique. What works for one may not always work for the other.

You hit the nail on the head--what works with one child might not work with another child. When my oldest was little I told my sister, who had 4 children, that it's amazing that the first child turns out since they are the experimental model. She informed me that all children were different, that what worked for one might not work for the next, and that they were, therefore, all experimental models. Wow, was that ever true! Talk about an eye opening realization for a fairly new mother.

T&B

 

[THESCHULTZFIVE]

What color should I get my "I'm Pathetic" t-shirt in? Pink? Lime Green?

Have you ever taken your child by the hand or arm to lead them to time-out or their room? Picked them up and carried them there? Stood there and held them there if they tried to leave? Turned their face so they were looking at you when you spoke? Pried a toy or candy out of their hands to take it away? Any of those are using some type of physical force to over-power your child.

What size t-shirt do you wear?

First off you should get lime green of course(although I do like pink too).
Second, no I don't have to pick up my kids or drag them or anything. My oldest two by now know the deal. If I say time out and you don't go(this mostly applies to the 3 y/o, my oldest wouldn't do this), then we're getting into the "no access to the playroom area" or "no tv or dvds or video". I wouldn't like to be hit, held down, etc. so why would I do that to my kids? Especially when I'm capable of getting my point accross in other ways. When it comes to something serious like running in the street(a previous poster mentioned that), my 8 y/o knows what can happen if you do that, but I don't think my 3 y/o really does(she could probably tell you, but I don't think she really knows what it means). So instead of taking a chance, we just don't let them play in the front yard. I was never spanked as a child and I know how to follow rules, same with DH, so if I can not do it and have my children turn out to be decent people, then that's good for me. Now, if you still wanna get me a t shirt i wear a small usually.

 

[jgmklmhem]

As far as the rise in crime question, why ask me if according to this very poll more people spank than don't? Doesn't seem to be working, does it?

The point being made is that in general from several generations ago spanking has been on the decline while crime has been on the incline. Even most of the posters here who say spanking can be used do it sparingly versus a few generations ago where spanking might be the first or second line of punishment in many cases. Most schools have also outlawed spanking and there has been a definate increase in violence there as well as disrespect for teachers as well.

 

[live4christp1]

Spanking, IMO, is not a problem. There is a difference between spanking & child abuse. To take a child and give a few swift swats on the buttocks preferably with a paddle or a belt is a spanking. To just start striking away at a child whereever, be it with a belt, your hand, or so on is child abuse. Children need discipline. They need to know that there are boundaries and that if you cross the line there are consequences. The consequences should be laid out and unchanging. Telling your child "if you do that again, I am going to spank you" for the one hundreth time for the same offence does nothing but weaken your authority......if you say it, follow through. They need to know that you mean what you say. My two are strong willed and you definately have to follow through with what you say and you can't make idle threats that are impossible to enforce "I'll ground you for a year"

Spare the rod.....spoil the child

 

[bajanswife]

The point being made is that in general from several generations ago spanking has been on the decline while crime has been on the incline. Even most of the posters here who say spanking can be used do it sparingly versus a few generations ago where spanking might be the first or second line of punishment in many cases. Most schools have also outlawed spanking and there has been a definate increase in violence there as well as disrespect for teachers as well.

There are a lot of different reasons for this, though, you can't pin it down to just one variable (spanking).

There is a general lack of discipline, I agree, but that isn't really related to spanking. Think of discipline as a toolbox, and spanking as just one tool in there. Some parents will find that they will bring out the spanking tool from time to time if nothing else is working, and others will keep trying to make the other tools work, because they don't like using the spanking tool. Some parents may even have thrown out the spanking tool. Unfortunately there are still parents out there who reach for that big, clumsy spanking tool way too often, without trying the other tools first to see if they fit better. And the results of this can be worse on the poor child.

I see so many instances of parents who are so busy or distracted, or just don't care enough, who don't take a stand with their kids until the kids have pushed them to the point of anger, then they strike out physically. I think this parenting style of letting things go and go and then reacting in an overblown way is a real problem today. What's also a problem is parents who don't set limits at all, including those who refuse to enforce anything and therefore aren't many tools at all! Sure there are overly lenient parents out there - many of them. But it's not just spanking that they refuse to do - they refuse to search for the right tools at all, they just use the few they know, even though they might not be working.

Please let's not confuse using or not using the spanking tool with the whole discipline tool box. Spanking is only one tool. I fully believe that it is possible to run a well-disciplined home without spanking. Can every parent do it? Maybe not. Will every child respond appropriately to all the other tools, to the point where the spanking one never has to come out? Dunno. But I certainly think it is at least theoretically possible to have discipline without using spanking. That's why I can't stand to see anyone blame things on NOT spanking, just as I hate to see things blamed on spanking. You cannot draw any meaningful conclusions on parenting and discipline if you narrow it down to only spanking vs not spanking.

BTW: the caring parents arguing on this thread seem to be the ones who are willing to use a wide range of tools, trying to find the best fit. That's what it's all about IMO.

 

[froglady]

College is a totally different atmosphere then HS # 1, I know I had honors in highschool too but college was way more difficult and although I did graduate with a 3.3 GPA ( Honors) I worked very hard to graduate with that average believe me.

I think that not paying your childs tuition just because she may have some difficulty in a class and "GASP" maybe even fail one, is totally unreasonable. Then again, I didn't have the luxury of my mother affording to pay for my college education so I got by on Grants and Loans and I worked part time all through college as well.

Still, it seems really horrible to threaten not to pay for your childs education if they don't maintain specific standards.

She CHOSE to go to a private, out of state college (where she gets an academic scholarship) rather than having a FREE ride at a state university.(We would only have to pay living expenses) (Bright Futures Scholarship) The scholarship only covers about 1/3 of her expenses, including travel expenses. However, she does have to maintain a certain average, or she will lose it. She made her choice, but knows the ground rules. Even if she lost her Bright Futures scholarship, the cost at a state school would still be less than we're paying now.

We have the money to let her do this (since we started saving when she was born) but have no intention of wasting it if she spent all of her time partying, etc. If she had chosen that path, she would be back in state.

 

[froglady]

bajanswife, ITA! Great post.

 

[Aidensmom]

If the only way you can get a child to listen to you, understand your point, follw your rules, whatever you call want to call it is to use some type of physical force then that's pathetic.

Then I am happy to be pathetic in your eyes.

I don't think anyone here has said that spanking is there only means of punishment, but that it is used as a last resort. I also think that some kids are extremely stubborn and strong-willed, and require at times different types of discipline than others. I don't think anyone here says they abuse their children, and I don't think anyone here on this thread, people who spank and people who don't, are pathetic. I think they are all great parents trying to find the best way to raise their child.

 

[Aidensmom]

Genuinely curious about something: several of you have mentioned running out into the street as toddlers being one of the things that warrant a spanking i.e. it seems to be the most common "biggie" mentioned....... The few spankings I gave were related to power struggles and defiance.

Our spankings are for power struggles and defiance too.

My son did run out into the street a couple of months ago. DH didn't hear him say he was coming along to walk the dog, and didn't stop and wait for him. We live on the corner of a semi-busy street. I saw out the window what was happening, and ran after him, and luckily got to him just as he was about to step out into the street in front of a speeding car. I picked him up, took him back in, and explained how scared I was, and why. He seems to now grasp the concept that he can't do this. However, if when explaining, he turned around, ran out the door, and into the street again, then he would have gotten a spanking.

 

[agnes!]

I like the discipline/toolbox analogy.

There are good people on both sides of this issue who have strongly-held beliefs and who will always disagree on the 'spanking/no-spanking' debate. From what I have read, even when I have disagreed with the posts' contents, I would say that most/all of the respondents in this thread are probably good, loving parents.

On to some associated topics...
From what I remember, some posters have said that spanking=abuse.
I have a slightly different point of view.
I don't remember anyone mentioning the verbal abuse that can occur with some parents. Verbal abuse can be just an insidious an evil as possible physical abuse(some might even say moreso, exactly because it does *not* leave any physical evidence...no bruises, no scars, no broken bones...just wounded psyches and battered souls).

Another thing... I have a real problem with the many parents I see around my DD's school or around the neighborhood or around church who belong to what I call the "Now, Johnny..."-School of Fine Parenting. These are the people who seem to have no clear consequences in mind for their child's misbehavior, for instance...
"Now, Johnny...you need to stop that".
(30 seconds later, when 'Johnny' hasn't stopped)
"Now, Johnny...you really need to stop that".
And this phrase "Now, Johnny" gets repeated again. And again. And again! And again(ad nauseum). The child never stops the misbehavior, all the parent has taught their child is to ignore them.

agnes!

 

[live4christp1]

When I was small we got whipped with a switch (new green hickory sapling with leaves striped away) and I think I turned out okay. Didn't turn me into a monster. Definately would be considered child abuse in todays society, remember having welps on my legs from the switch but I learned to obey and if something merited a switching, you surely didn't do it a second time.

 

[robinb]

When I was small we got whipped with a switch (new green hickory sapling with leaves striped away) and I think I turned out okay. Didn't turn me into a monster. Definately would be considered child abuse in todays society, remember having welps on my legs from the switch but I learned to obey and if something merited a switching, you surely didn't do it a second time.

Add you are somehow proud of this?!?!

 

[bajanswife]

.
Another thing... I have a real problem with the many parents I see around my DD's school or around the neighborhood or around church who belong to what I call the "Now, Johnny..."-School of Fine Parenting. These are the people who seem to have no clear consequences in mind for their child's misbehavior, for instance...
"Now, Johnny...you need to stop that".
(30 seconds later, when 'Johnny' hasn't stopped)
"Now, Johnny...you really need to stop that".
And this phrase "Now, Johnny" gets repeated again. And again. And again! And again(ad nauseum). The child never stops the misbehavior, all the parent has taught their child is to ignore them.

agnes!

Oh, this drives me absolutely nuts! Especially when their kid is doing something bad to MY kid and that parent won't stop it! I have a friend who is like that to some extent - she's not terrible, but there are times I really wish she'd get her act together and DO something when her kids are being obnoxious! She makes a lot of excuses (oh, he's tired, he gets like this when he's tired etc.) - fine, I understand there are reasons for everything, I too look for reasons in my kids' behaviours, but for heaven's sake, you still have to DO something (like take him home if he's THAT tired, or at least give him a cuddle session on your lap away from the other kids for a while)! The latest example was last week when our kids were all kicking a soccer ball around. It was our ball, and we were at my parents' house next door where my Singapore cousins are staying for 2 weeks. We had food out on a table (popcorn, drinks) and her son A (5) kept kicking the ball (hard) near the food, or near the swingset where the younger ones were swinging. His mom kept telling him where to kick the ball instead and why it wasn't a good idea. Fine and dandy the first 2 times or so ... after that it just became a power struggle. She'd tell him "no", he'd look straight at her and line up the ball to be kicked straight at the little kids. He'd run to the ball to kick it, she'd run to snatch it up, but she'd start to laugh and tell him again "not this way, over there". She threatened to take the ball away, but didn't follow through. This boy is 5 years old, not 2!! He knew exactly what he was doing! Finally I took the ball away and told the kids it was retired for the evening (by then the other kids had lost interest anyway, and it was all about A and his power struggle with his mom). If it were my child, I would have taken away the ball much, much sooner (or made him sit out the game if the other kids were still playing). And if he'd thrown a fit, I would have retired HIM from playing anything for a while or SOMETHING (though probably not spanking at that point)! None of my kids are allowed to behave like that and not suffer immediate consequences, not only for the learning potential, but the safety of others! An out of control 5 yr old is a danger to my younger ones!

Sorry, you've really hit on one of my pet peeves, and I'm venting now!

 

[live4christp1]

Add you are somehow proud of this?!?!

Wouldn't say proud of this. Just seems to me that lots of people get all bent out of shape because some of us choose to spank our children and like to paint us as evil, mean, hateful people, but we aren't. Neither were my parents, granted it didn't require too many bouts with the switch to determine who the boss was and you had better do what the boss said.

Just like the OP we are often told how well behaved our children our, etc. Every year on DS report card his teachers comment on how polite and kind and well behaved he is and what a joy he was to have in class, believe me, this behavior didn't just come naturally, it had to be taught.....DS is very strong willed and likes to test the limits but once he knows where he stands and what the limits are, he realizes the consequences outweigh the action. We have friends who do not spank their kids, they warn them and warn them until the warnings escalate into shouting and yelling and telling them how stupid they are, how bad they are, etc......now that to me is abuse, just not physically but emotionally.

Have always tried to teach them that they need to obey the first time and immediately because sometime it might be a situation where they are in harms way and if they don't obey instantly it could make a huge difference.

 

[swilphil]

The point being made is that in general from several generations ago spanking has been on the decline while crime has been on the incline. Even most of the posters here who say spanking can be used do it sparingly versus a few generations ago where spanking might be the first or second line of punishment in many cases. Most schools have also outlawed spanking and there has been a definate increase in violence there as well as disrespect for teachers as well.

Has a correlation between the increase in violent crime and the decrease in spanking been proven? There also have been many other changes in society during these years: an increase in unwed teen mothers, more drug abuse, children watching more television and playing video games, along with huge changes in the legal system and educational institutions.

 

[robinb]

Wouldn't say proud of this. Just seems to me that lots of people get all bent out of shape because some of us choose to spank our children and like to paint us as evil, mean, hateful people, but we aren't. Neither were my parents, granted it didn't require too many bouts with the switch to determine who the boss was and you had better do what the boss said.

I personally don't get bent out of shape over spanking, but I would get bent out of shape if I saw a child with welts on their legs from being beaten with a switch. And yes, I would paint that person who administered that punishment as a "evil, mean, hateful" person. Do you/did you use a switch on your well behaved son? Just curious.

 

[jgmklmhem]

Has a correlation between the increase in violent crime and the decrease in spanking been proven? There also have been many other changes in society during these years: an increase in unwed teen mothers, more drug abuse, children watching more television and playing video games, along with huge changes in the legal system and educational institutions.

I wasn't necessarily making the correlation I was just clarifying the point more clearly. I would personally attribute some of the rise (maybe a very small percentage) to the lessening of physical discipline being used at home and in school. For some kids it works very well and for some it doesn't.

As for us we have spanked on very rare occasions. The electrical outlet situation was one that got a swat on the hand....because for one it got our 1.5yo's attention and two it did cause her discomfort which is the message I wanted her to get because associating pain with something that might hurt her worse is in my opinion not bad. Yes you can take steps to prevent this type of problem and we do by using the outlet covers. That doesn't mean they will always be in a controlled environment with outlet covers. I would rather prepare my kid for the time it could happen either by accident or just in a different place than just assume the world is always going to be safe or that I will always have her every move tracked in other places. Trying to explain outlets bad to a kid who barely could grasp the words Mommy and Daddy wasn't going to work.

 

[live4christp1]

I personally don't get bent out of shape over spanking, but I would get bent out of shape if I saw a child with welts on their legs from being beaten with a switch. And yes, I would paint that person who administered that punishment as a "evil, mean, hateful" person. Do you/did you use a switch on your well behaved son? Just curious.

Nope, just a belt on his bottom.