Is it worth it???

[Hawk]

I can't see where going DVC is worth it for us? We travel to WDW 3 times per year for 14 days each stay. Each stay requires 2 weekends. Thisnwouldcostus over $50,000.00. With the room discounts we get for being annual passholders, the payment for DVC only good for 49 years, and the yearly assessment of $700.00-$800.00 we might as well purchase a property nearby for life, or continue as we are.

Does anybody see whereI have made a mistake?

Hawk

 

[JimC]

You sound like an ideal candidate, unless those stays are all in value resorts. We visit WDW three times each year (one week each trip), have APs and still found DVC to be a worthwhile approach financially. But better yet, we enjoy vastly nicer villas.

This site may help your analysis.
http://www.mousesavers.com/dvc.html#dvc

If its strictly a numbers decision for you then you should stay off property -- that is where the real deals are (maybe not the best value, but certainly the lowest prices).

If you want a real estate investment then yes a condo in Florida would be a better use of your money. DVC is a prepaid vacation, not a real estate investment.

 

[DOOGIERUNNER]

Thisnwouldcostus over $50,000.00. With the room discounts we get for being annual passholders, the payment for DVC only good for 49 years, and the yearly assessment of $700.00-$800.00 we might as well purchase a property nearby for life, or continue as we are.

Does anybody see whereI have made a mistake?

Hawk

If you want to be logical about it (most of us aren't myself included)....

If you continue to stay 14 days 3 times per year for 49 more years... in the deluxe resorts (DVC) @ average $300/night + 10%tax (present value, no inflation here) you will spend $679,140.

Purchase DVC for $50,000 + $800 indues for 49 years you will have only spent $89,000. This averages out to $43 per night, no headaches, upkeep, insurance or worries and excellent Disney service. Good luck finding a hotel on property for $43/night.

Of course, neither of these take inflation into account.

 

[littlestar]

Sounds like you don't care about staying off site or on site. If you're wanting the cheapest, then that would be off site. Or like you said, buy something for life nearby (which with Florida real estate I don't know if that exists anymore). You could buy a cheap timeshare resale (look on tug2.net) and then join Interval and have access to their "Getaways" and probably stay real cheap for 6 weeks a year. My brother is staying at Marriott Grande Vista next month on an Interval getaway for about $200 a week. Nice property.

Now, if you're comparing DVC to a value resort, then DVC will probably never be a better deal. Also, you could buy enough points for 1 trip a year DVC and stay the rest at values or moderates with an annual pass discount. You could "treat" yourself once a year to DVC if you value staying deluxe on Disney property. If you go in January or September, a studio at OKW would be 80 points a week or 160 for two weeks in a studio. 160 points definitely wouldn't cost you $50,000. I think an OKW resale would run around $74 a point. Also, Boardwalk standard view studios are 85 points a week in value season. That's 170 points for 2 weeks. Boardwalk resales seem to be going for more than OKW, though, probably around $80 to $85 a point from what I'm seeing on the resale sites.

Or, you could rent DVC points at $10.00 a point. Two weeks in value season at BWV in a standard view studio would run $1,700 (85 + 85 = 170). That's pretty close to what a moderate would cost you with an AP discount I would think. What's POR or CBR now, about $110 to $120 a night with an AP rate by the time you add the tax?

We bought DVC because we wanted to stay in deluxe accomodations on property and lock in our price. The extra $25.00 a piece for extra adults in the room was also a factor when paying cash at the deluxe resorts for us. We seem to always take our adult kids with us

Don't forget that DVC members are getting Annual pass discounts of $100 off, too. Even if you bought a small DVC contract through resale, you might like those annual pass discounts, especially if you have a lot of kids at home that go with you!

 

[Tamar]

Hawk~

DVC is worth it if it makes you happy, and littlestar is right, you're not forbidden from staying somewhere else for some trips (or some weekends) when you buy into DVC. If it won't make you happy, don't do it.

We'll rack up 5 Disney vacations on our Nov 2004 annual passes:

Nov 2004...9 nights for F&W all at BWV (studio)
May 2005...3 nights in Clearwater Beach, 3 weeknights at BWV, 3 nights GF concierge
June 2005...6 nights Pop (I had a conference, work paid)
Sept 2005...3 nights AKL
Nov 2005...9 nights BWV (4 nights studio, 5 nights 1 bd)

We have not spent $50,000 on our points, and in fact have rented out some of our points this year to pay for that GF stay and all our 2005 dues. You gotta want to work with it, and enjoy it for what it is (great rooms with no bill to pay at the end of your stay, but you've made the investment to have that). Oh, and having breakfast in the room every day allows us to splurge on dinners.

 

[Caskbill]

Something's not right here. You mentioned $50K, but also said dues of $800 annually.

$800 annually means about 200 points. But 200 points only costs about $18K. If you're talking about buying 500-600 points ($50K), they you're looking at dues of over $2000 annually.

If you're staying in a value resort for something like $80/night, you're already spending $3360/year for hotels. And of course a value resort is nothing like a DVC resort.

We'd need to know more about what your current costs are before we could help on whether DVC is a good value for you or not.

 

[MrsNick]

And one more perk that I have not yet seen discussed are the perks you get from being DVC member (discounts at some restaurants, and 25% discounts on cash ressies when available, I believe).

 

[debloco]

Something's not right here. You mentioned $50K, but also said dues of $800 annually.

$800 annually means about 200 points. But 200 points only costs about $18K. If you're talking about buying 500-600 points ($50K), they you're looking at dues of over $2000 annually.

If you're staying in a value resort for something like $80/night, you're already spending $3360/year for hotels. And of course a value resort is nothing like a DVC resort.

We'd need to know more about what your current costs are before we could help on whether DVC is a good value for you or not.

Thank you, Caskbill. I was going to mention the same thing about the cost of the dues per year. We have 250 points and our dues are a little over $1,000 a year. So 50K worth of points is going to be at least $2000.
Brings the total for DVC to about 148K without factoring in increases in the dues.

Even if you stay in moderates for $150 a night plus the 11.5% tax rate, that's 42 nights a year times 49 years. Adds up to just over 344K. And moderate rooms are nothing like DVC.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

Hawk,
You can always go over to the rent trade board and rent out some points and see how you like one of the DVC resorts. That may help you decide if it is worth it. Renting is a very good option if you are not sure, there is no continuing obligation. Might be a nice change of pace for you. I'm sure you know from 3 trips per year, the more deluxe Disney accomodations do cost more. They may not be worth it for you.

 

[Muushka]

Something's not right here. You mentioned $50K, but also said dues of $800 annually.

$800 annually means about 200 points. But 200 points only costs about $18K. If you're talking about buying 500-600 points ($50K), they you're looking at dues of over $2000 annually.

If you're staying in a value resort for something like $80/night, you're already spending $3360/year for hotels. And of course a value resort is nothing like a DVC resort.

We'd need to know more about what your current costs are before we could help on whether DVC is a good value for you or not.

I saw this also and thought to myself, guaranteed, someone will do the math!

DVCers are quite logical!

 

[1000th happy haunt]

Hawk,

Here's another option you can try. If you're really interested in DVC, buy enough points for one stay per year. The points for a stay will not increase (or decrease), so figure enough for one stay in whatever type of room you'll need, at whatever time of year you prefer.

Then if you find you like the idea, you can purchase more points later.

You may also want to consider a few other things, like DVC members currently get a discount on annual passes, and AP holders get a discount on DDE. So even a small DVC purchase can reap bigger rewards.

(D'oh--edited a stupid typo.)

 

[paults]

Hawk, we need to know where you usually stay in DISNEY 3 times a year.
Do you have children?

At OKW( DVC) in OCT 2wks = 164 pts at $10pt rented)= $1640 x 3 stays = $4920 a year.
There you need close to 500 pts

3 stays at a moderate (in OCT)is about (just with recent Fl Code $114 a nt x 14 days = $1596 a trip x 3 = $4788 a year ( if you can get a code)
moderate price goes up each year DVC does not.
If you have older children you will pay extra at age 18, DVC you don't

I won't even compare the deluxes because it will be high.

 

[djreed]

This link helped me with the $$ evaluation...

Well O. K. I would have posted the link if I did not get this message from the dis boards " Your Post contains one or more URLs, The DIS requires a minimum number of posts before allowing the posting of URL's" This is lousy!
the web site starts with world wide web has mouseplanet in the middle and ends with com. check out the section

" The Great Debate:What's the Opposing argument? | An Internet Debate on the DVC | A Financial Analysis of DVC Membership | Comments on A Financial Analysis of DVC Membership | Another Financial Analysis Comparing OWKR, BVR, and VWR"

Happy Vacationing...
Dave

 

[dvc_john]

Quote:
Well O. K. I would have posted the link if I did not get this message from the dis boards " Your Post contains one or more URLs, The DIS requires a minimum number of posts before allowing the posting of URL's" This is lousy!

for and explanation of why this is so, see this thread:
www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=893937

 

[Hawk]

Thanks for all the replies. Here is more information.

It is me, mom, 9 year old courtney, 4 year old coby, sometimes 16 year old matt, and not so often 20 year old jason. We would need to have 2 bedrooms so a studio is out. We have stayed in many resorts, but mostly like POR, because of large size, food court option for kids, and many pools. We have at times reserved two rooms depending on who and how many of the children are coming with us. Most times the rooms are less than 130.00 per night. We rent a car, so we only rely on bus for MK. We usually have dinner off property. We all have PAP tickets and get them every year.

The comment regarding the $800.00 for dues was indeed for 150 points as was told to me by one of the DVC booth personnel. They were not able to guaranty that those costs (insurance/taxes) would not increase exponentially.

The comment about 49 years is a double edge sword. I am buying for 49 years therefore compelled to continue WDW trips which we would probably not do as often when the little ones grow older. Yet is the amount I would need to pay for so many points worth it or should I invest the property into something off the property that will certainly increase in value and not tie me to WDW.

Thanks for the continuing replies. We are very serious about doing something. I just made air reservations for February and we would like to decide before or during that trip.

Hawk

 

[Anewman]

Hawk there is no garantee that value of DVC will continue to go up or even stay where it is now. But if you look at what the price per point was 5-10 years ago and see what the resale market is right now, to me it looks like some used the club for 10 years and are selling for at least the amount they paid if not more.

I kinda feel bad trying to convince someone to do something they are obviously set against, so I wont. I would just consider renting points(still cheaper than a mod) and taking the tour, they are so non pressure.

Our guide when she finished the tour(@ DisneyLand) said "ok just get back to me within 30 days to get the incentives mentioned" almost like she wanted us to go home and think about it, no pressure to sign that same day.

 

[Caskbill]

It appears you want to be a cautious, informed, buyer, which is the correct way to do it.

As to dues, they will go up, but not exponentially. Legally they can only go up by the true costs of operating the resort. There's a fiduciary responsibility of the board. When dues go up it's because wages for housekeeping/staff went up, or insurance went up, etc. If you look at the full history of DVC dues, you'll see that they've gone up no worse than regular inflation, and possibly a little less. In the early years of the program, there were a couple of years when dues actually went down.

One of the biggest things missed by everyone is that a 3% increase in dues is nowhere near as much money as a 3% increase in a hotel rates. That's the real beauty of the program and where the true long-term savings come in.

For example, a Studio at OKW mid-season is about 10/points/night. With dues of $4 that's about $40/night. Compare that to a hotel room at maybe $150/night plus tax, which makes it about $167.25/night.

If both go up 3% the next year, The DVC dues go up to $4.12, making the 10 point room now $41.12, or a net increase of $1.12/night.

The hotel room goes up to $154.50, and with tax it's $172.25, which is a net increase of $5.00/night. If you just want to look at percents, that increase is 446% more than the DVC increase, even though both were at a 3% base.

If each of these increased 3%/year for 10 years, then in 2015 your DVC dues would be $5.38/point. The room is still 10 points, so it's $53.80 for the night.

The $150 hotel room goes up to $201.59, plus tax, equals $224.77.

The cost of the DVC room after 10 years has gone up $13.80/night. The cost of the hotel room has gone up $57.52/night.

Now in all fairness, the above illustration is the best apples to apples comparison possible, a DVC Studio vs. a regular hotel room. The real advantage to DVC is the ability to get much better accommodations than just a hotel room, and still not spend as much (in dues) as the hotel room would cost. As to initial cost, there are any number of ways to factor that in. But for many of us, we could sell our ownership today for more than we paid for it.

 

[Lisa P.]

So, Hawk, here's what I'm seeing:

3 annual trips x 14 nights each, including weekends
Family of 5, sometimes 6 traveling
Need a 2BR DVC or need 1 room at POR, sometimes 2 rooms
Like the large rooms, food courts, many pools
Rent a car, using the bus for MK
Eat off-property, use PAPs for passes
Paying 130/room/night max, usually
May visit WDW less often in a decade or so
May consider offsite vacations

You're planning one trip in February - what time of year for the other two? Are they usually during the same calendar weeks each year???

Here's what it would "cost" you with DVC - with some assumptions for the above statements.

263 points per February week at OKW (lowest points req'd, Dream season)
x 2 weeks per stay (actually may use 3 times this, for 3 annual trips)
------------------
526 points per 2-week trip per year
x $89 resale purchase price per point
------------------
~$46,814 plus closing costs (you'd have to buy more, contracts are not readily available for this exact number of points) This would buy you 2 weeks in a 2BR at OKW in Dream season.

526 pts. x $4 maint fees = ~$2100 per year in maint fees for 263 pts, worth a 2-week stay in a 2BR.

$130/nt POR x 14 nights = $1820 for a 2-week stay in a POR hotel room - and no upfront costs. Double this for trips when you actually need 2 rooms.

It is clearly cheaper to keep getting the AP rate rooms, considering that they've been available for a very long time now and you may only be needing them for another decade -AND- they require NO investment upfront. Granted, there's a BIG difference in the quality and space between a single moderate hotel room and a 2BR suite/condo. However, there is a price to pay for this upgrade when staying onsite in a Disney property. Whether it's worthwhile to you or not - depends on YOU.

Alternatively, you could be paying less (sometimes MUCH less) than $1400 for those 2 weeks in a 2BR timeshare condo rental offsite - regardless of whether you bring the oldest with you or not. You could also be paying more for a deluxe hotel room onsite or a cash rental of a 2BR onsite.

For OUR family (also 5 people), we found that we loved the space, comfort, convenience of a kitchen, 2 bedrooms and 2 full bathrooms with teenagers. A hotel room is not good for our family during vacations longer than a couple of days. But DVC was too pricy for us. I think DVC is not always the best for families of 5 people.

Like, you, we are fine with driving our car and eating at offsite restaurants (many good ones nearby). So we are very happy in our offsite timeshare resorts. For some people, onsite is "da bomb" and offsite simply would not make them happy. There was a recent thread on the Orlando Hotels forum, asking why people did NOT buy DVC - many prefer the feel of a hotel room and want daily housekeeping included with the room. To each their own. You'll have to choose what matters most for your family and the price you're willing to pay for it. HTH!

 

[unixadm]

Hawk,

Read my thread: Doing the Math - The Real Cost/Savings


One thing to keep in mind is you aren't locked into going to Disney each trip either. You can use the points for cruises, other vacation destinations, etc.

 

[paults]

Something To Remember if you decide to buy DVC. Do not buy a large contract ( like 300 plus pts) they are hard to sell and can not be broken down to sell.
You have 4 children to leave your DVC to. You could buy 4 (100 pt contracts =400 pts or 4 x 150 pt contracts)=600 pts that way your children can have there own DVC and take there children someday. The pt price just keeps going up.

We bought in in 2002 at $66 a pt now they sell at over $80 a pt.
We bought a 150 contract (resale)to give to DD and 100 pt add-on(by Disney) to give to DS and we are going to add on another 50 to equal it out.

Just do what you think is right for you and your family. Good Luck PAUL BWV