Is it too easy to get divorced?

[Acklander]

Exactly - only those serious about marriage would get married - my point exactly.

This isn't about love - it is about marriage and integrity.

There is no integrity in being in a marriage without love.

 

[Jennasis]

This is total bull.

I've never been on death row, but I have an opinion about the death penalty.

In regards to your own relationship, have at it. You have no business commenting on the divorce of others. It's none of your business and you will NEVER have all of the facts.

 

[krcit]

Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

Not if it's different than mine Of course you're entitled to your opinion. That's what makes these discussions interesting.

 

[Jennasis]

Exactly - only those serious about marriage would get married - my point exactly.

This isn't about love - it is about marriage and integrity.

Again, you must have truly had your trust ruined during your divorce. I can hardly imagine what she must have done.

But if marriage isn't about love...what the heck is the point? A warm body to sleep with ala Nanook of the North? Someone to split the bills? Someone to procreate with?

I get what your saying. Really I do. I just think there is more to a marriage than contractual obligation.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

There is no integrity in being in a marriage without love.

There are many people who get married and have children without love. We had a thread about this a few weeks ago and many do not even believe that "love" exists. They have very happy, productive lives. In fact, through most of human history, love was not something that existed before marriage - it was developed after marriage (or some semblance of a mutually satisfactory relationship).

Love is a product of hard work and mutual respect/trust. Any couple can achieve it, but few people ever really seek it out. It can cost one everything, because to achieve it, one has to put their happiness in the hands of another.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...I get what your saying. Really I do. I just think there is more to a marriage than contractual obligation.

My posts in this regard are simply a reflection of the current valuation of marriage in our society. Read some of the posts in this thread again. Many put personal happiness ahead of everything else. For them, marriage (as I view it) should never have been a consideration. They only deserve a contract, as they are only willing to invest that much of themselves.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Not if it's different than mine Of course you're entitled to your opinion. That's what makes these discussions interesting.

Thanks for the laugh...

 

[Colleen27]

Wanted to add one other thought about division of property, child custody, alimony and child support:

Lacking a legal justification for the divorce, the person seeking the divorce should get nothing. No property, lose custody, have to pay alimony, have to pay child support.

If legal justification exists, the person legally at fault (person who broke the vows or was abusive) should get nothing.

There should be real consequences for divorce, and they should be laid at the feet of the offender, not equally split. Want to leave your husband/wife? He/she gets the kids and the house, both cars, the bank accounts and the 401ks. You can start over if you want, but he/she doesn't have to.

The problem with that is that it is impossible to prove. On one hand, you have things that there just isn't likely to be evidence of, like emotional abuse or infidelity, and on the other you have the likelihood of false reports of physical/sexual abuse being made to gain leverage in a divorce.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

The problem with that is that it is impossible to prove. On one hand, you have things that there just isn't likely to be evidence of, like emotional abuse or infidelity, and on the other you have the likelihood of false reports of physical/sexual abuse being made to gain leverage in a divorce.

We have cell phones that record conversations and take pictures, today. Impossible to prove?

 

[Jennasis]

Well a marriage (the secular variety) is just a contract is it not? And contracts can and are broken through use of the legal system often.

Dude, I'm no divorce advocate. But I will never, ever apologize for mine, nor allow anyone to make me feel like less of a person for seeking a divorce. It was necessary. For my personal happiness and my own survival. I don't care who thinks what of me for it including my ex (I did then...but i got over that).

If God can forgive me for it (and he has), then that's all that matters.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree.

Something else that I think factors in for a lot of people is that we've become a society absolutely obsessed with our children to the point of helicopter-parenting becoming almost normal. I'm not advocating disinterest, but I cannot even begin to count the number of parents (usually the women) I know who won't leave their kids with a sitter, think nothing of co-sleeping for years, spend every day running to/from various activities, etc. and basically make no time for romance or intimacy with their spouse. Good marriage doesn't work that way; you can't just ignore/neglect the relationship and keep it permanently on the back burner for years of raising kids and then expect it to be happy & healthy when the nest empties.

Yep, some people -- and this tends to be a woman thing -- forget about their spouse when the children come along. I'm not saying that you shouldn't take good care of your children, spend time with them, teach them and nurture them . . . but you shouldn't do it at the expense of your marriage. You shouldn't forget about your spouse. First, it's an unhealthy thing for the kids: You don't want them to grow up thinking that they are the center of the universe (because the universe will end up kicking them off that pedestal, and it's painful for them), and because they should learn to take care of themselves -- not count upon you for everything.

If you haven't had a divorce, then you aren't allowed to have an opinion on the concept of divorce? wow.

How 'bout those of us who lived through divorce as children? Are we entitled to an opinion? I'll tell you this: Those of us who saw it from that viewpoint should know enough to do everything, everything, everything possible to avoid putting our own children through that hell. If you do end up in a divorce, you should absolutely KNOW that you left no stone unturned before making what is going to be a painful decision for everyone.

I've never met anyone who woke up one morning and said "Gee, I'm bored today, what should I do? Oh wait, I think I'[ll get divorced"

I know a couple people who've divorced because they were "no longer fulfilled" or "didn't feel the same way about him" as they did in the past. That's only one step up from "Gee, I'm bored".

 

[ZeitgeistDuck]

I value marriage. I value it as a part of my faith, I value my husband, I value the commitments we made to each other and I value the life we have built together. I *think* I would do any and everything before walking away, depending on the circumstance. I married intending to be married for LIFE.

That said, I think a person should be able to walk away from a marriage at any time, for any reason, with a fair share of the assets? Why? Because a thousand years of history has shown us what has happened to women who do not have this freedom. To women who were kept in virtual sexual and economic slavery in the name of integrity and 'valuing' marriage. Until the 20th century in many western countries women couldn't even file for divorce, the man had to do it, and the woman had no rights to property or custody of the children. That taught us the state needs to stay the hell out of determining who is right and wrong in any given relationship. The state in not an arbitrator in an interpersonal relationship. You can delude yourself that marriage is like any legal contract- but what other contract is based on "loving, honoring, and cherishing"? What other contract is based on the way we feel about each other and how we channel those feelings to inform our behavior toward that person?

You can argue all day, but I will never think setting marriage back 200 years - to an era rife with terrible abuses and desperate unhappiness with no exit plan that doesn't punish the leaving partner- makes any kind of sense.

 

[castleview]

How 'bout those of us who lived through divorce as children? Are we entitled to an opinion? I'll tell you this: Those of us who saw it from that viewpoint should know enough to do everything, everything, everything possible to avoid putting our own children through that hell. If you do end up in a divorce, you should absolutely KNOW that you left no stone unturned before making what is going to be a painful decision for everyone.

Divorce is hell as is a marriage between two people that can't stand each other - my parents fell into that category. I'm not for making divorce harder, but everyone should try to make their relationship work for their sakes and in effect their children's sake.

 

[castleview]

I know a couple people who've divorced because they were "no longer fulfilled" or "didn't feel the same way about him" as they did in the past. That's only one step up from "Gee, I'm bored".

At least two spouses we know are shopping around for better deals. It does happen.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Well a marriage (the secular variety) is just a contract is it not? And contracts can and are broken through use of the legal system often.

Dude, I'm no divorce advocate. But I will never, ever apologize for mine, nor allow anyone to make me feel like less of a person for seeking a divorce...

I apologize if I made you feel judged. It is not my place, nor was it my intention.

We each make our decisions and live with the consequences. Sometimes we make good decisions, and sometimes we make mistakes. If we are lucky, the good ones outweigh the mistakes. But there are always consequences, and those consequences often extend well beyond ourselves.

Statistically speaking, the most damaging financial "mistake" that a married couple can make is getting divorced. When only one of the parties decides to do so in an otherwise healthy marriage (either by walking away or otherwise destroying the marriage), there should be consequences. That was my point. Why should the "innocent" party have to pay equally for the decision of the "guilty"?

 

[Colleen27]

We have cell phones that record conversations and take pictures, today. Impossible to prove?

We also have software that can easily alter or even fake an image or audio recording. I would assume that, since divorce is a legal process, the proof would have to meet established legal standards. And having been down that road in regard to a custody issue, I can say from experience that it can be dang near impossible to meet the court's standard of proof.

 

[Colleen27]

Exactly - only those serious about marriage would get married - my point exactly.

This isn't about love - it is about marriage and integrity.

More likely, more couples would simply choose to live together without benefit of marriage, which has the potential for many unintended consequences. I know I wouldn't enter into a marriage on those terms. I take my marriage very seriously, but if for some reason my DH lost his mind and raised a hand to me or had a one night stand with someone else, I wouldn't want to be in the position of needing to stick around to gather proof before kicking him to the curb.

I don't believe that there should be a burden of proof one has to meet to get out of a bad marriage. Abusers and addicts are often very practiced in hiding their dysfunctional behaviors from the outside world, and someone trying to get away from a dangerous or toxic spouse should not have to worry about getting adequate proof to take to court.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...That said, I think a person should be able to walk away from a marriage at any time, for any reason, with a fair share of the assets? Why? Because a thousand years of history has shown us what has happened to women who do not have this freedom...

Seriously? You fear this in modern America?

 

[PrincessKsMom]

My posts in this regard are simply a reflection of the current valuation of marriage in our society. Read some of the posts in this thread again. Many put personal happiness ahead of everything else. For them, marriage (as I view it) should never have been a consideration. They only deserve a contract, as they are only willing to invest that much of themselves.

And exactly who are you to tell me, or anyone else, what I "deserve", in your estimation? Do you hear yourself?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

More likely, more couples would simply choose to live together without benefit of marriage...

So be it. Marriage means standing together for life, not until something better comes along. Anyone not ready to sign on for this should get none of the associated "benefits".