Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[Scalemaster34]

Exactly, but curious how one would add an attraction in an "unfriendly" matter?


Yes and no IMO. Some things that are not done as well as they could be can be viewed as a win. To me, Gringotts was not done right (no coaster on a coaster scene from a movie?) but its still a win. Transformers was a one and done-just Spidy 2, but it does collect guests freeing up other things. 7DMT is probably our favorite ride at MK now-but obviously could have been longer, and many folks don't like it at all. But I would not have them bulldoze it because its too short.

Whereas Everest "seems" to go on and on and on.....

If they had added a 2nd Scene somewhere it would have been a nice. Have to wonder what the expatiation were for Little Mermaid and the Mine Train. It's pretty clear based on the queue length for Mine Train that Disney didn't anticipate it's popularity to this level. They'll put one in Disneyland and make it twice as long.....

 

[jade1]

Whereas Everest "seems" to go on and on and on.....

If they had added a 2nd Scene somewhere it would have been a nice. Have to wonder what the expatiation were for Little Mermaid and the Mine Train. It's pretty clear based on the queue length for Mine Train that Disney didn't anticipate it's popularity to this level. They'll put one in Disneyland and make it twice as long.....

Good points. Indeed 7dmt is super popular, so was it done "wrong"? Not wrong to the folks loving it. And probably not wrong to those in shorter lines because of its existence .

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Good points. Indeed 7dmt is super popular, so was it done "wrong"? Not wrong to the folks loving it. And probably not wrong to those in shorter lines because of its existence .

Keep in mind even Stitch had lines when it first opened. The key isn't the first two years an attraction is open its what happens by year five.

 

[DDLand]

Keep in mind even Stitch had lines when it first opened. The key isn't the first two years an attraction is open its what happens by year five.

Except Snow White's Mine Train is a good attraction. I went on it originally with totally the wrong idea about what it was.

When I got off the first time I asked myself what the heck that attraction was supposed to be.

After having gone on it two more times and thinking about it for a year I think I finally understand it.

The Fantasyland attractions of both Disneyland and WDW are smaller immersive experiences that give you bite sized versions of some of your favorite stories. Far from the full sized lands like Avatar, Cars, Harambe, Asia, or HP that are all about supporting a single narrative, Fantasyland is supposed to be a speedy trip through many stories. These two ideas are somewhat at odds with each other.


So in a way Snow White's Mine Train is a product of both today's total immersion attractions and the Traditional Fantasyland Concept. The queue, outdoor sections, and show scenes are leaps and bounds more detailed than any other Fantasyland Attraction besides Mermaid (the new Peter Pan's Flight Queue is nice too). Indeed, when you're in the queue it feels like you've been transported to Germany through the eyes of Walt Disney. It's remarkable and beautiful.

Also what is noticeable about Mine Train is how it casts off the burden of trying to explain everything or even tell much of a story. Unlike Peter Pan's Flight, Winnie the Pooh, or even Snow White's Scary Adventure it doesn't seek to retell its source material. It seeks to briefly transport you to the source material for a short time. Show you a moment and get you to feel like you're really there.

Instead of other Fantasyland attractions where you can easily get bored riding them, Mine Train has excellent re-rideability because they're transporting you to a moment not reading you a book. Not just any moment, but a moment everyone knows and loves. This is a more POTC like attraction compared to other ride narrative attractions.

Is it as long or as impressive as Big Thunder or Space Mountain? No, but it's one of the most beautiful and just fun attractions I've been on. It reminded me of Matterhorn, in that it is shorter but just hits all the right notes to be a great ride. I much prefer it to Space Mountain and it's close to Big Thunder. Maybe my new favorite ride at Disney World. It's just a joy to ride.

Cal me delusional, but I think the fanbase surrounding it is more then just hype.

 

[NewEnglandCamper]

Disney is very very expensive. I love it but its no longer a yearly thing for us! I was very disappointed in the new Fantasyland but very impressed with the new Castle at Universal.

This years trip will be focused more on Universal with maybe a character meal at Disney and of course Disney Springs. I was going to suggest we go to Epcot for the Flower show but with Soarin out of the picture I can see spending over $400 for 1 day to tour Epcot which we have seen over and over again. We will be there in 2017 fall so hopefully more things will be done.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Except Snow White's Mine Train is a good attraction. I went on it originally with totally the wrong idea about what it was.

When I got off the first time I asked myself what the heck that attraction was supposed to be.

After having gone on it two more times and thinking about it for a year I think I finally understand it.

The Fantasyland attractions of both Disneyland and WDW are smaller immersive experiences that give you bite sized versions of some of your favorite stories. Far from the full sized lands like Avatar, Cars, Harambe, Asia, or HP that are all about supporting a single narrative, Fantasyland is supposed to be a speedy trip through many stories. These two ideas are somewhat at odds with each other.


So in a way Snow White's Mine Train is a product of both today's total immersion attractions and the Traditional Fantasyland Concept. The queue, outdoor sections, and show scenes are leaps and bounds more detailed than any other Fantasyland Attraction besides Mermaid (the new Peter Pan's Flight Queue is nice too). Indeed, when you're in the queue it feels like you've been transported to Germany through the eyes of Walt Disney. It's remarkable and beautiful.

Also what is noticeable about Mine Train is how it casts off the burden of trying to explain everything or even tell much of a story. Unlike Peter Pan's Flight, Winnie the Pooh, or even Snow White's Scary Adventure it doesn't seek to retell its source material. It seeks to briefly transport you to the source material for a short time. Show you a moment and get you to feel like you're really there.

Instead of other Fantasyland attractions where you can easily get bored riding them, Mine Train has excellent re-rideability because they're transporting you to a moment not reading you a book. Not just any moment, but a moment everyone knows and loves. This is a more POTC like attraction compared to other ride narrative attractions.

Is it as long or as impressive as Big Thunder or Space Mountain? No, but it's one of the most beautiful and just fun attractions I've been on. It reminded me of Matterhorn, in that it is shorter but just hits all the right notes to be a great ride. I much prefer it to Space Mountain and it's close to Big Thunder. Maybe my new favorite ride at Disney World. It's just a joy to ride.

Cal me delusional, but I think the fanbase surrounding it is more then just hype.

I actually think it's going to be very much like PP in that it remains immensely popular for years. I was just saying that a line doesn't make for a good attraction. Every time I see the wait time for Figment going 30 min plus I just wonder how the people feel after getting off.

 

[DoingDisney]

Except Snow White's Mine Train is a good attraction. I went on it originally with totally the wrong idea about what it was.

When I got off the first time I asked myself what the heck that attraction was supposed to be.

After having gone on it two more times and thinking about it for a year I think I finally understand it.

The Fantasyland attractions of both Disneyland and WDW are smaller immersive experiences that give you bite sized versions of some of your favorite stories. Far from the full sized lands like Avatar, Cars, Harambe, Asia, or HP that are all about supporting a single narrative, Fantasyland is supposed to be a speedy trip through many stories. These two ideas are somewhat at odds with each other.


So in a way Snow White's Mine Train is a product of both today's total immersion attractions and the Traditional Fantasyland Concept. The queue, outdoor sections, and show scenes are leaps and bounds more detailed than any other Fantasyland Attraction besides Mermaid (the new Peter Pan's Flight Queue is nice too). Indeed, when you're in the queue it feels like you've been transported to Germany through the eyes of Walt Disney. It's remarkable and beautiful.

Also what is noticeable about Mine Train is how it casts off the burden of trying to explain everything or even tell much of a story. Unlike Peter Pan's Flight, Winnie the Pooh, or even Snow White's Scary Adventure it doesn't seek to retell its source material. It seeks to briefly transport you to the source material for a short time. Show you a moment and get you to feel like you're really there.

Instead of other Fantasyland attractions where you can easily get bored riding them, Mine Train has excellent re-rideability because they're transporting you to a moment not reading you a book. Not just any moment, but a moment everyone knows and loves. This is a more POTC like attraction compared to other ride narrative attractions.

Is it as long or as impressive as Big Thunder or Space Mountain? No, but it's one of the most beautiful and just fun attractions I've been on. It reminded me of Matterhorn, in that it is shorter but just hits all the right notes to be a great ride. I much prefer it to Space Mountain and it's close to Big Thunder. Maybe my new favorite ride at Disney World. It's just a joy to ride.

Cal me delusional, but I think the fanbase surrounding it is more then just hype.

Have to very much disagree with most of this. The re-rideability of Mine Train is pretty darn low, for us, and for a few people that I over heard (but I might as well be a bus driver for anecdotal overhearings). We ride, Thunder, space, a dozen times per trip, at least. I mean, its not uncommon for us to ride them half a dozen times in a single day. Mine Train, we did it twice over 8 days last trip, and we very much could have done it more. Its neat, and you can't knock the themeing and design, its awesome. But its just way too short, and way too slow, and way too ... meh. More re-rideability than Peter Pan or Pooh, which we typically hit once per trip, but not close to Thunder, Space, splash, etc etc.

I think most of the hype is a) Disney advertising/spin b) the fact that it is something new. I mean, what else is there that's actually NEW ? And it continues to be the only new thing. Of course people are clamoring to get on it.

I mean anyone who is going for the first time has seen them push push push Mine Train, its in pretty much every commercial (except the new star wars one), its all over their promo photos and online ads. And anyone who has been there in the past 10 years, its like one of two new things to do, and the only new "coaster" ... and thats probably going to continue to be true for another couple years.

 

[rteetz]

Have to very much disagree with most of this. The re-rideability of Mine Train is pretty darn low, for us, and for a few people that I over heard (but I might as well be a bus driver for anecdotal overhearings). We ride, Thunder, space, a dozen times per trip, at least. I mean, its not uncommon for us to ride them half a dozen times in a single day. Mine Train, we did it twice over 8 days last trip, and we very much could have done it more. Its neat, and you can't knock the themeing and design, its awesome. But its just way too short, and way too slow, and way too ... meh. More re-rideability than Peter Pan or Pooh, which we typically hit once per trip, but not close to Thunder, Space, splash, etc etc.

I think most of the hype is a) Disney advertising/spin b) the fact that it is something new. I mean, what else is there that's actually NEW ? And it continues to be the only new thing. Of course people are clamoring to get on it.

I mean anyone who is going for the first time has seen them push push push Mine Train, its in pretty much every commercial (except the new star wars one), its all over their promo photos and online ads. And anyone who has been there in the past 10 years, its like one of two new things to do, and the only new "coaster" ... and thats probably going to continue to be true for another couple years.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I think mine train is great for what it is. It should've been more but it wasn't.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Have to very much disagree with most of this. The re-rideability of Mine Train is pretty darn low, for us, and for a few people that I over heard (but I might as well be a bus driver for anecdotal overhearings). We ride, Thunder, space, a dozen times per trip, at least. I mean, its not uncommon for us to ride them half a dozen times in a single day. Mine Train, we did it twice over 8 days last trip, and we very much could have done it more. Its neat, and you can't knock the themeing and design, its awesome. But its just way too short, and way too slow, and way too ... meh. More re-rideability than Peter Pan or Pooh, which we typically hit once per trip, but not close to Thunder, Space, splash, etc etc.

I think most of the hype is a) Disney advertising/spin b) the fact that it is something new. I mean, what else is there that's actually NEW ? And it continues to be the only new thing. Of course people are clamoring to get on it.

I mean anyone who is going for the first time has seen them push push push Mine Train, its in pretty much every commercial (except the new star wars one), its all over their promo photos and online ads. And anyone who has been there in the past 10 years, its like one of two new things to do, and the only new "coaster" ... and thats probably going to continue to be true for another couple years.

I think it's clear from the implementation of FP+ that reriding things is not high on Disney's list of priorities. That said reriding is a personal preference depending on the attraction. You mention Space but I haven't been on that in 5 years. It hurts my neck and back and if I don't ride it again until my son is old enough to make me I'll be fine. I could ride SE over and over just to play with the final scenes. I know a lot of people don't like it but I think the animation sequences are really entertaining.

7DMT will remain popular and while it might not maintain 2 hour high waits I doubt it will ever drop below 1 hour much like PP.

 

[DDLand]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I think mine train is great for what it is. It should've been more but it wasn't.

Agreed on that, but I do understand where they face a dilemma. The entire ride's pacing is incredibly upbeat and fast paced (not from a thrills perspective, but from just storytelling). Further big show scenes would've slowed down the attraction's middle segment and I think would've presented other problems. I like the pacing, but would like an additional 20-40 seconds of roller coaster, perhaps a bit more in the tunnels before the big dwarf scene. I love how that scene ends so no complaints there. The other note I could make on the attraction is towards the end I like the cottage and reveal, but it can be hard to see the witch if you aren't looking. I'd have slowed that down a little for your transition back into the real world (or the Magic Kingdom lol) and so we can appreciate the scene. Big Thunder does a better job with that final transition.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think it's clear from the implementation of FP+ that reriding things is not high on Disney's list of priorities. That said reriding is a personal preference depending on the attraction. You mention Space but I haven't been on that in 5 years. It hurts my neck and back and if I don't ride it again until my son is old enough to make me I'll be fine. I could ride SE over and over just to play with the final scenes. I know a lot of people don't like it but I think the animation sequences are really entertaining.

7DMT will remain popular and while it might not maintain 2 hour high waits I doubt it will ever drop below 1 hour much like PP.

Mine train will have a long line based on the lack of enough stuff to keep 21,000,000 reasonably entertained...not on ITS merits.

Like it...or don't like it. That's 100% opinion. But let's not overestimate what it is from a technical or even theme standpoint.

Does peter Pan's flight have a 55 minute wait (5:59 est on 1/7 and its 70 min) based on its merits?!?

Hell no...its that they get people there and there isn't THAT much to do. My opinion is well known due to frequency...
...but the Iger-isnian theory is there is an UNLIMITED pool of new blood with more and more money and time to spend it there...they're gonna need billions if they don't improve the fundamental quality of what's there before too long.

It's like someone crawling through the desert toward a mirage...when they get there they'll settle to drink the sand.

 

[DoingDisney]

Mine train will have a long line based on the lack of enough stuff to keep 21,000,000 reasonably entertained...not on ITS merits.

Like it...or don't like it. That's 100% opinion. But let's not overestimate what it is from a technical or even theme standpoint.

Does peter Pan's flight have a 55 minute wait (5:59 est on 1/7 and its 70 min) based on its merits?!?

Hell no...its that they get people there and there isn't THAT much to do. My opinion is well known due to frequency...
...but the Iger-isnian theory is there is an UNLIMITED pool of new blood with more and more money and time to spend it there...they're gonna need billions if they don't improve the fundamental quality of what's there before too long.

It's like someone crawling through the desert toward a mirage...when they get there they'll settle to drink the sand.

They better be thanking Obama for digging the economy out of the hole it was in for people have have disposable income and consumer confidence to spend enough on WDW vacations. Seriously though

One of the things I wonder is what the impact of the strengthening American dollar is going to be on international travelers and how much a domestic consumer they can rely on and when this will all fall apart.

Several Florida tourist associations have released press releases concerned about the difference in value between the Canadian and American dollar, and expect Canadian travelers to decrease significantly.

The USD is up against the British pound, against the South American currencies, and against the Euro ... Still been an impressive run of increased attendance, but I know for sure that many Canadians have hit a breaking point.

 

[Planogirl]

If and when Universal gets around to developing their new plot of land, I think that Disney should definitely be worried.

Here is the biggest (more or less) contiguous chunk of land ... about 350 acres. I included the outline of IOA and USF for scale ... not including Citywalk, resorts or garages.

There is plenty of room for 2 theme parks, several resorts, parking etc. in this block. It's about 10 minutes down Universal Blvd. from the existing theme park area.

View attachment 143704

I wonder what that one structure that's kind of in the way is?

Universal Blvd is a super easy street to drive too. We have stayed at resorts off of Universal Blvd just because the drive into UNI is so easy.

I wonder if Universal could build just an old fashioned thrill ride park? I've seen tons of talk about how that is lacking in the Orlando area but maybe it should stay that way....

 

[DDLand]

I wonder if Universal could build just an old fashioned thrill ride park? I've seen tons of talk about how that is lacking in the Orlando area but maybe it should stay that way....

That would be highly ironic...

http://m.wesh.com/news/idrive-skyplex-project-faces-opposition/36581010

 

[Planogirl]

That would be highly ironic...

http://m.wesh.com/news/idrive-skyplex-project-faces-opposition/36581010

Oh yes, that thing. Not the same thing exactly but true.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Mine train will have a long line based on the lack of enough stuff to keep 21,000,000 reasonably entertained...not on ITS merits.

Like it...or don't like it. That's 100% opinion. But let's not overestimate what it is from a technical or even theme standpoint.

Does peter Pan's flight have a 55 minute wait (5:59 est on 1/7 and its 70 min) based on its merits?!?

Hell no...its that they get people there and there isn't THAT much to do. My opinion is well known due to frequency...
...but the Iger-isnian theory is there is an UNLIMITED pool of new blood with more and more money and time to spend it there...they're gonna need billions if they don't improve the fundamental quality of what's there before too long.

It's like someone crawling through the desert toward a mirage...when they get there they'll settle to drink the sand.

PP has always had long lines for as long as I can remember. Its an interesting twist on the classic dark ride and when my niece was little it was her favorite ride.

7dmt is going to have staying power because it's a draw to the 38" crowd. Fun rides for kids are always going to be a big draw. There are plenty of rides on Disney property that blow my mind in terms of wait times (Figment being the primary one) but PP has never been one of them.

 

[mort1331]

They better be thanking Obama for digging the economy out of the hole it was in for people have have disposable income and consumer confidence to spend enough on WDW vacations. Seriously though

One of the things I wonder is what the impact of the strengthening American dollar is going to be on international travelers and how much a domestic consumer they can rely on and when this will all fall apart.

Several Florida tourist associations have released press releases concerned about the difference in value between the Canadian and American dollar, and expect Canadian travelers to decrease significantly.

The USD is up against the British pound, against the South American currencies, and against the Euro ... Still been an impressive run of increased attendance, but I know for sure that many Canadians have hit a breaking point.

It has a huge effect on us Canadians. We are a go for March, but my normal trip in Sept is off. Already rented my points out, and will need to skip 2017 if the exchange stays where it is.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It has a huge effect on us Canadians. We are a go for March, but my normal trip in Sept is off. Already rented my points out, and will need to skip 2017 if the exchange stays where it is.

yeah…i know canadian snowbirds in florida that have been commenting on the crunch for several years now.

And the nhl salary cap is out of whack and the Pens are cap screwed….


but its not just canada. i can only imagine that it has vastly affected both our friends from the Kingdom and the EU as well.
They were living HIGH off the vacation hogs for a long time due to good exchange…its not nearly what it was - but i haven't check the exchange rates today

 

[xie]

I think Disney will always be better than Universal, no matter what they do. Classic rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean could never be duplicated by Universal. They don't know how to make slow moving family rides or animatronic characters. Most of their rides just shake you around.

As others upthread have pointed out, Universal appears to be working on adding more family-friendly rides and becoming less of a Six-Flags-style coasters-only park, and more of a themed destination. Harry Potter was the start of that, and I think it proved to them that there's a huge market for themed fantasy areas that Disney isn't completely satisfying. Partly because their build rate has been too slow, and partly because they failed to sufficiently exploit many of the IPs they have beyond the "small child" variety (princesses and Cars are great but they are really a specific age range).

As for the slow moving family rides and animatronic characters... Disney keeps laying people off. Universal wants to be a competitor and is certainly willing to hire former Imagineers. If they don't have rides like that in the planning stages now, they will have soon. IMHO virtually every themed area ought to have 3 or more rides, each one built for a different thrill-level, so to speak. A slow-boat ride was really the only thing that the first HP land was missing, in fact. It had the VR ride and the kiddie coaster, plus shows and the tavern etc. (And you could say that they somewhat remedied the slow-boat miss with the HP train ride between the parks.)

 

[RedSox68]

I think Disney attracts families in a way that Universal never can. Unless perhaps you have teenagers or grown children.

Yes, but eventually the kids in those families grow up and they want to go to Universal where the "big kid" stuff is LOL. My family, as well as many of my friends' families, shifted to Universal once their families had "outgrown" Disney and wanted to see what was at Universal. The adults found the pace so much more peaceful that they now prefer Universal over a hectic visit to WDW. As I stated previously, we are one of those families who now put Universal first and maybe add a day or two at Disney later.