Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

Assuming the new parks hit the right emotional notes, the question really is going to be, kids, where do you want to go this year?

Well I think this is still the big unanswered question. What can Universal bring to a 3rd (never mind 4th) park that is different to what's already on offer. They need another Harry Potter level IP and I don't think the "Jimmy Fallon" ride is it.
 
People on the board are already discussing Tolkien, Nintendo, and a 3rd Harry Potter Land - that would be enough all by itself for something amazing, even if they look to no other Comcast properties...and it's not like they've stopped making new entertainment properties to exploit...
 
Universal never made an agreement to preserve wetlands in exchange for the right to issue public bonds...

And universal seems "motivated" to make land "suitable"
With money, most anything is possible. However, it does hurt the bottom line. Limestone and sink holes in Florida have thwarted many things. Knowing how suitable the land is for development, is important. Wetlands are also an important development hurdle, and the map shows a few ponds etc.
 
People on the board are already discussing Tolkien, Nintendo, and a 3rd Harry Potter Land - that would be enough all by itself for something amazing, even if they look to no other Comcast properties...and it's not like they've stopped making new entertainment properties to exploit...

Well Tolkien isn't happening in any current plans for legal reasons. Nintendo, yeah that one could have some legs depending on the nature of their deal. More Harry Potter wouldn't hurt, but it's not going to be a draw like the first was, certainly not justification for a new park.

The question wasn't whether it's possible, the question was what? Too many people act like you just plop down a theme park (whether it's Universal or Disney) and masses of people travel the length of the country to queue up. They don't. Universal doesn't want to cannibalize its own audience which means it has to offer something that's different to its two current parks. So what would that be? What other big draws are currently not used?
 

On the one hand, the economic conflagration which is effecting Disney will also affect Comcast, and less cheap credit for condos also means less credit available for building theme parks. So the new land might sit there empty for longer than it takes rteetz to raise a family and retire..

While your logic is sound. There is a glut of housing for sale. I don't see a glut in the theme park market. I do see a rise in disposable income.
 
Well I think this is still the big unanswered question. What can Universal bring to a 3rd (never mind 4th) park that is different to what's already on offer. They need another Harry Potter level IP and I don't think the "Jimmy Fallon" ride is it.

LOL, but that's not as good an example as you think. Jimmy Fallon doesn't do it for me either ... necessarily ... but it is Kukla-arm based and the writing and humor will be a little bit more hip than ... [pick any half dozen lame, old, WDW dark rides]

If that's how Uni can do up an attraction that is really just a tie-in to a talk show then think of how they will handle a really hot property.

The comparables with how Disney implements minor attractions are very revealing. The nearest thing to Jimmy Fallon is how Disney basically phoned in a superficial makeover of their sound effects show with Drew Carey. Or plunked Ellen and Bill Nye into their old energy show. If Disney owned the Twister attraction they would have just swapped out Bill Paxton for a random ESPN or Disney channel personality ... or turned it into a temporary lounge.

And Universal has never (yet) said ... hmmm that ride is pretty popular. Let's just keep on duplicating it by building extra tracks/theaters with exactly the same show ...
 
LOL, but that's not as good an example as you think. Jimmy Fallon doesn't do it for me either ... necessarily ... but it is Kukla-arm based and the writing and humor will be a little bit more hip than ... [pick any half dozen lame, old, WDW dark rides]

If that's how Uni can do up an attraction that is really just a tie-in to a talk show then think of how they will handle a really hot property.

We already know. We've seen it. Admittedly they had their arm twisted a little with Potter, but they have absorbed that lesson well and it already shows elsewhere.

Viewing this purely in a Disney vs. Universal who's better mindset misses the point I think. My question isn't about their execution, it's quite literally "what is the new thing they can bring that justifies a third park and that makes people who haven't up to now book a trip?"

They need to answer that question (maybe they already have internally).
 
I bet more themed lodging, shopping like a mini disney springs. Casino's legal in Florida? Double down on Marvel stuff?
 
I bet more themed lodging, shopping like a mini disney springs. Casino's legal in Florida? Double down on Marvel stuff?

I'm not sure they can double down on Marvel. Their license is "in perpetuity" but there are strict limitations as to which characters can be used and how and if Universal were to breach that contract...
 
Also... they can't do the versions of the characters that are now the biggest draws. They can do the comic book versions not those billion dollar movie versions. So while I don't see Marvel leaving Universal any time soon it's probably not the best franchise to build a new park around.
 
I think you underestimate what they have - Nintendo could practically be its own park (just like Harry Potter could be). Universal could officially double down on being the "bring your non-prince and princess kids to our parks"...they are already seen as the "boy" park and that Disney is lousier for boys than girls...and it doesn't take much more to be the "non-princess" park for girls...marketing the new park as the "anti-prince/princess park" and you could print money - it could be the park for readers, gamers, adventurers, etc...

If it were me, I'd go with the concept my kids taught me a few months ago - the "fandoms" - an entire park dedicated to fandoms would dwarf anything Disney could do...and Universal could have practically all the fandoms they want (save Star Wars and Disney)...would some of these fandoms come and go - yes - but others (like Harry Potter, video games, if they get Tolkien or Dr Who, if they could get Star Trek) - they are eternal...a mix of the current and the eternal would be unbeatable...

And they wouldn't cannabalize themselves - a 3rd park and a water park becomes the weeklong trip (2 days per park + a day in the waterparks)...they beat Disney at their own game...
 
My question isn't about their execution, it's quite literally "what is the new thing they can bring that justifies a third park and that makes people who haven't up to now book a trip?"

They need to answer that question (maybe they already have internally).

It's a good question. I don't know what the answer is but I have a feeling that's from my own lack of imagination.

The world of movies, music, entertainment in general is infinitely large and there are millions of fun things they can do. Entertainment properties have got Uni through 2 parks already as it's got Disney through 2 parks, MK and DHS. OK ... 1 1/2 parks. A good part of this message board is people pining for their favorite entertainment property to get done up in a theme park, when there's hardly any room in existing theme parks for what they have in mind.

Then there's the world of science, travel, conservation ... fact based. Or factoid based. That provided Disney's next 2 parks. I wouldn't recommend Universal to make a zoo based park or a world's fair, but there are other possibilities. Consider how big are certain conventions like ComicCon or CES. Or music and arts festivals like South by Southwest. You could turn any of them into a permanent theme park with a mix of rides and more or less constantly refreshed displays and shows.

You could make a VegasWorld Orlando, with the fun rides and entertainment but without the gambling and come-ons for strip shows.
 
I'm really curious what level the focus of Nintendo will be. They've had a wide range of games focusing on preschoolers to adults so will it be a mix or target the younger demographic where I think they have the most catch up to do. I have a 2yr old who is very familiar with Mario and Luigi and would probably really enjoy attractions themed around them.
 
I'm in the "who really cares" camp.

UNI is a great day already. Making it 2 or even 3 great days is better yet-esp returning each night to WDW for FP+ and DVC rooms.

Go ahead and spend $Billions to make my trips better-why would I not want that?

And whats the effect on WDW?

1) They will make even more stuff to counter.

2) They will need to stay more competitive.

3) WDW parks won't be as busy (easier FP+, easier Dining ressie, shorter lines, cheaper and more available rooms/DVC).

Of course a better UNI will bring even more folks to central FL (as HP already does), so WDW will likely benefit even more.
 
I'm in the "who really cares" camp.

UNI is a great day already. Making it 2 or even 3 great days is better yet-esp returning each night to WDW for FP+ and DVC rooms.

Go ahead and spend $Billions to make my trips better-why would I not want that?

And whats the effect on WDW?

1) They will make even more stuff to counter.

2) They will need to stay more competitive.

3) WDW parks won't be as busy (easier FP+, easier Dining ressie, shorter lines, cheaper and more available rooms/DVC).

Of course a better UNI will bring even more folks to central FL (as HP already does), so WDW will likely benefit even more.
If both parties participate in friendly competition then you are absolutely right that the consumer is the ultimate winner. In the end it doesn't matter what prompts improvements only that they are done and done right.
 
If both parties participate in friendly competition then you are absolutely right that the consumer is the ultimate winner.

Exactly, but curious how one would add an attraction in an "unfriendly" matter?

In the end it doesn't matter what prompts improvements only that they are done and done right.

Yes and no IMO. Some things that are not done as well as they could be can be viewed as a win. To me, Gringotts was not done right (no coaster on a coaster scene from a movie?) but its still a win. Transformers was a one and done-just Spidy 2, but it does collect guests freeing up other things. 7DMT is probably our favorite ride at MK now-but obviously could have been longer, and many folks don't like it at all. But I would not have them bulldoze it because its too short.
 
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Exactly, but curious how one would add an attraction in an "unfriendly" matter?



Yes and no IMO. Some things that are not done as well as they could be can be viewed as a win. To me, Gringotts was not done right (no coaster on a coaster scene from a movie?) but its still a win. Transformers was a one and done-just Spidy 2, but it does collect guests freeing up other things. 7DMT is probably our favorite ride at MK now-but obviously could have been longer, and many folks don't like it at all. But I would not have them bulldoze it because its too short.
I don't think the competition is simply going to be about adding attractions. I think Universals land purchase signals the desire to become a destination which could be more that just a day or two loss for Disney that may not be received well. They really have never had someone try this before and since they are kind of in bed with each other due to location and the Marvel licensing piece they both could try to make this misserable for each other. Business don't really like competition because it's only good for the consumer.
 
I don't think the competition is simply going to be about adding attractions. I think Universals land purchase signals the desire to become a destination which could be more that just a day or two loss for Disney that may not be received well. They really have never had someone try this before and since they are kind of in bed with each other due to location and the Marvel licensing piece they both could try to make this misserable for each other. Business don't really like competition because it's only good for the consumer.

Ah gotcha. Well it appears to be happening so, unfriendly already then?.
 
Ah gotcha. Well it appears to be happening so, unfriendly already then?.
Not at the moment. Right now it appears to be tit for tat which is fine and good for consumers. Unfriendly starts when they one tries to block construction efforts of the other or they decide to nitpick a contract. The really is no reason for either to do that but strange things happen when the status quo moves.
 














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