Is Disney getting priority over DVC members on rooms?

[mickeysbestfriend]

The reason I am bringing it up is that both myself and a friend of mine have tried to books rooms recently and we were told that their were none available for us to book with points but they did have the same accomodations available for "cash" reservations. He was booking at BLT and I was trying to book at OKW.

Just curious....

 

[JimC]

Those are probably points used by members for exchanges outside of DVC resorts.

 

[RobDoc]

About 1/2 of BLT has not been declared into member inventory so those rooms are available thru CRO for cash reservations. As Jim already stated, at OKW the rooms now available for cash are mostly from points used for non-DVC options like the cruise and other WDW resort stays.

 

[DebbieB]

Plus Disney retains ownership of some of the points (as provided in the contract) plus there are points they get back from foreclosures and right of first refusal. They rent their points through CRO.

 

[mickeysbestfriend]

but I was wondering if they block out certain rooms/days for themselves to rent for cash or do they have to go through the same process the members do. I get the passholder "deals" all the time touting studios at OKW or SSR for a mear $179.99 a night during times when there are no studios available to members. It wouldn't seem fair for Disney to let Disney block out rooms at prime times of the year like the holidays.

I hear all the time about them buying up small contracts and anyone who didn't extend out their old contracts to the 50 year threshhold is giving it back to Disney when their current contracts expire at 100% gain to the company.

 

[vicki_c]

There are two separate pools of rooms at DVC resorts -- those available for booking on points and those available for booking through CRO. They don't fluidly switch back and forth -- although at particular times, DVC will turn over unreserved rooms to CRO for cash reservations, and possibly even pull them back after that if needed.

If DVC members have booked all the available rooms through Member Services (or traded out to RCI or a cruise) and if there are still CRO rooms unbooked -- they will have availability while DVC will not.

It's not a matter of DVC (or Disney as you stated) "blocking out rooms" for CRO to use -- there are always two separate pools of rooms.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Most of those rooms you see available for cash may have already been booked using points - only the member isn't staying in them. Instead they are staying in a DCL stateroom. Or in the GF Sugarloaf Concierge. Or the Ft Wilderness Campground. Or an Adventures By Disney trip. They swapped out the room they would have booked for a non-DVC Disney vacation.

So they have already been used by points and cannot be reserved using points a second time.

Unless DVC wants to cancel all possible trades and require members to only stay in DVC resorts....

 

[silmarg]

There are two separate pools of rooms at DVC resorts -- those available for booking on points and those available for booking through CRO. They don't fluidly switch back and forth -- although at particular times, DVC will turn over unreserved rooms to CRO for cash reservations, and possibly even pull them back after that if needed.

If DVC members have booked all the available rooms through Member Services (or traded out to RCI or a cruise) and if there are still CRO rooms unbooked -- they will have availability while DVC will not.

It's not a matter of DVC (or Disney as you stated) "blocking out rooms" for CRO to use -- there are always two separate pools of rooms.

While I "get" the fact that their are two pools of rooms (since DVC members dont all 100% of the points in each resort), if unreserved DVC rooms can shift to CRO why can't CROs shift back when DVC has excess demand? It would seem equitable to me.

 

[JimC]

While I "get" the fact that their are two pools of rooms (since DVC members dont all 100% of the points in each resort), if unreserved DVC rooms can shift to CRO why can't CROs shift back when DVC has excess demand? It would seem equitable to me.

DVC always has the use of the points and associated units declared into the condominium association. DVC has no right to undeclared inventory. And when there has been an exchange, DVC needs to "sell" those rooms to pay for the exchange or deposit those rooms into the exchange pool.

 

[wdrl]

While I "get" the fact that their are two pools of rooms (since DVC members dont all 100% of the points in each resort), if unreserved DVC rooms can shift to CRO why can't CROs shift back when DVC has excess demand? It would seem equitable to me.

In one respect, rooms can be shifted back from CRO to the Members when there is demand. Specifically, rooms in the DVC inventory that are unbooked by the Members within 60 days are shifted to CRO to be rented out for cash. This is called "breakage." If, however, if a Member requests a room within that 60 day period, Disney will shift an unrented room that is in "breakage" back to the DVC so that the Member can book it using points. Nevertheless, the total number of rooms booked by DVC Members on any day can never exceed the number of rooms declared for the membership.

 

[5forDiz]

....... if unreserved DVC rooms can shift to CRO why can't CROs shift back when DVC has excess demand? It would seem equitable to me.

they can and they do if there is unbooked availability in CRO pool I believe <60 days out from desired check-in date but I could be wrong on that number....it could be less. It is not a given.....as noted by poster vicki DVC may ~possibly~ pull them back.

.......There are two separate pools of rooms at DVC resorts -- those available for booking on points and those available for booking through CRO. They don't fluidly switch back and forth -- although at particular times, DVC will turn over unreserved rooms to CRO for cash reservations, and possibly even pull them back after that if needed........

 

[crisi]

While I "get" the fact that their are two pools of rooms (since DVC members dont all 100% of the points in each resort), if unreserved DVC rooms can shift to CRO why can't CROs shift back when DVC has excess demand? It would seem equitable to me.

Its an ownership issue. DVC owns breakage points - so they can still pull those back. If CRO rents those rooms, DVC gets the profit.

But the other types of rooms DVC doesn't own - they either don't own them yet (undeclared inventory) or they sold them in order to pay for a trade.

Its a little like having a car sitting around you aren't using. If you loan the car to your neighbor and he isn't using it, you can go get it back. If you sell the car in order to buy something else - you can't go back to the person who you sold the car to and say "let me use the car" even if he isn't using it. Well, you can, but he can say no. And if "your" car is still sitting on the dealers lot, you don't have any right to it at all.

 

[Anthony1971]

I know this topic has been around before...
The better question is if I own at resort X and trade for a cruise Disney must rent these points... Is it not possible for DVC to hold all of the points and decide to use them one week, for example Christmas week, making less rooms available for members.

 

[crisi]

Nobody knows how they decide which rooms to turn over to CRO in a trade. They need to balance member needs (for rooms around Christmas or the demand in October) with the ability for CRO to rent those rooms. Having all of SSR be available in January isn't going to entice CRO to buy those points from DVC for trades - or CRO will do so at such a discount as to make trading prohibitive to members. So there have to be some prime rooms going out.

At one point DVC made an indication that they were working on some way to make this situation more fluid and reallocate the inventory between the buckets in a more ad hoc fashion. That was probably a year ago, and I haven't heard anything more.

 

[Anthony1971]

Nobody knows how they decide which rooms to turn over to CRO in a trade. They need to balance member needs (for rooms around Christmas or the demand in October) with the ability for CRO to rent those rooms. Having all of SSR be available in January isn't going to entice CRO to buy those points from DVC for trades - or CRO will do so at such a discount as to make trading prohibitive to members. So there have to be some prime rooms going out.

At one point DVC made an indication that they were working on some way to make this situation more fluid and reallocate the inventory between the buckets in a more ad hoc fashion. That was probably a year ago, and I haven't heard anything more.

I agree no wants rooms in the off season...
I think that is why some say they see a lot of Cash rooms at certain times and nothing on points... all the more reason to book your home resort at the 11 month mark for the popular times
I also do not think this is priority over a member as it starts with a service offered to members and the cost must be recovered or we will no longer have that option.

 

[vicki_c]

they can and they do if there is unbooked availability in CRO pool I believe <60 days out from desired check-in date but I could be wrong on that number....it could be less. It is not a given.....as noted by poster vicki DVC may ~possibly~ pull them back.

Thanks I was starting to think no one had noticed my qualified/wishy-washy insertion of "possibly"!

 

[lark]

I suspect that DVC can and does take CRO inventory at times. I'm guessing someone who has seen an annual statement can confirm, because they'd have to pay for it somehow.

But I think it happens, particularly at resorts where points are still for sale. For example, I have not heard of a single person who has yet reported being able to book VGC for cash. You can't book it online, or through either WDW or DL CRO. Yet, it's apparently been mostly full since opening, even though not even half is sold or even declared.

Perhaps hotel guests are being upgraded so they can sell more regular rooms, although I doubt it. We would have heard from someone to whom that happened. It's also been surprisingly easy to get DVC reservations at VGC, even well inside the 7 month window for hard to get dates. Just going by declarations and the small number of units, there should only be about 20 units currently available for DVC members. My suspicion is that DVC is buying (or using offset credits to buy) these rooms from CRO as a loss leader, to get owners of points other than VGC into the rooms, since those are the best customers.

When DVC sends rooms to CRO, CRO has to reimburse DVC. It's not a huge leap to assume that DVC and CRO have some sort of internal account ledger to balance this stuff. I'm a BLT owner, but I'm using points to stay at VGC in a couple of months. The inventory was wide open. Let's hypothesize that DVC is making more rooms in VGC available than actually are in DVC inventory. It has to compensate CRO for these rooms. But, at the same point, I have now used BLT points that I won't use at BLT. DVC thus has extra inventory at BLT to sell to CRO. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some formula or reconciliation that allows this stuff to go on between the companies if they want a loss leader. DVC would love non-VGC DVC owners staying at VGC right now. Who better to sell to than existing members? I doubt DVC would do this at sold out, established resorts like OKW. Why would they? But for the ones currently for sale, it's a good option.

 

[wdrl]

I suspect that DVC can and does take CRO inventory at times.

When DVC sends rooms to CRO, CRO has to reimburse DVC.

Let's hypothesize that DVC is making more rooms in VGC available than actually are in DVC inventory. It has to compensate CRO for these rooms. But, at the same point, I have now used BLT points that I won't use at BLT. DVC thus has extra inventory at BLT to sell to CRO. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some formula or reconciliation that allows this stuff to go on between the companies if they want a loss leader. DVC would love non-VGC DVC owners staying at VGC right now. Who better to sell to than existing members? I doubt DVC would do this at sold out, established resorts like OKW. Why would they? But for the ones currently for sale, it's a good option.

I think that CRO reimburses DVC only if it rents the room. That is how we get our breakage income. If the room is passed to CRO at the 60 day mark and CRO does not rent it, then there is no income to pass on to DVC. I don't see why CRO would pass income on to the DVC if it can't rent a room.

I don't think that "freed up inventory" at our home resorts is passed to CRO when DVC members book stays at non-home resorts. If you own at VGC and book a stay at BLT, then that VGC inventory will be used by a member who owns at BLT, SSR, etc. Its only at the 60 day mark that Disney can pass unbooked DVC inventory to CRO.

I also can't see how DVC can access more rooms than have been declared for the membership. The reciprocal clause in our Declaration of Condominium is very specific about the number of accommodations cannot be exceeded. Furthermore, the reciprocal clause is quite specific that the number of accommodations are based on a daily basis, not of a cumulative weekly, monthly, or yearly average. In other words, DVC can't exceed the number of accommodations for one week, and then use fewer rooms the next week to make up the difference.

Where the reciprocal clause is not specific is in regards to view categories. Currently, BLT has 168 (62.9%) 2-bedroom villas declared for DVC (see http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2212548). On any given use day, DVC members cannot book more than 168 2-bedroom villas. However, are members limited to only 62.9% of the MK views? Or does DVD let members have as many MK rooms as we want and reduce the number of Standard or Lake View rooms available to us?

 

[vicki_c]

The reciprocal clause in our Declaration of Condominium is very specific about the number of accommodations cannot be exceeded. Furthermore, the reciprocal clause is quite specific that the number of accommodations are based on a daily basis, not of a cumulative weekly, monthly, or yearly average. In other words, DVC can't exceed the number of accommodations for one week, and then use fewer rooms the next week to make up the difference.

Where the reciprocal clause is not specific is in regards to view categories. Currently, BLT has 168 (62.9%) 2-bedroom villas declared for DVC (see http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2212548). On any given use day, DVC members cannot book more than 168 2-bedroom villas. However, are members limited to only 62.9% of the MK views? Or does DVD let members have as many MK rooms as we want and reduce the number of Standard or Lake View rooms available to us?

I thought that accommodations = points. So views and rooms sizes wouldn't matter - only that when they got to the total number of points (for that day as you quoted), they couldn't book any more DVC rooms of any size or view.

 

[wdrl]

I thought that accommodations = points. So views and rooms sizes wouldn't matter - only that when they got to the total number of points (for that day as you quoted), they couldn't book any more DVC rooms of any size or view.

The reciprocal clause specifically states "accommodations" and "Vacation Homes" It makes no mention of points. It states, in part, "the total number of accommodations available for Club Member reservation for any given Use Day will never exceed the total number of Vacation Homes existing within the Vacation Ownership Plan on that Use Day."

If it was only points that mattered, then the DVC members would have access to all 60 THVs at SSR. As it is, I believe that members can only book up to 30 THVs, which is the number of villas declared, on any given day.