Is anyone else not saving or paying for college?

[Patience]

For those who feel it is their obligation to pay for college for their kids, why are many of you only paying for undergrad but not grad school.

So many fields today require a Master's degree to be able to get a job. I realize not all do but a Bachelor's degree is a dime a dozen. It's comparable to what a high school diploma was years ago-expected. A Master's degree can really set an applicant apart from those with just a Bachelor's degree.

So why do you set your kids loose when it comes to grad school-isn't that part of your obligation too?

For us, it's because we have another child and we feel as though we can't commit to pay for graduate school for our oldest daughter without affecting our ability to pay for an undergraduate education for our youngest (while at the same time, continuing to fund our future retirements- yes, we do that- lol). We will likely choose to assist with grad school tuition but we won't commit to it in the same way we have committed to provide our children with an undergraduate education. What we do for one child, we will also do for the other so there has to be a limit somewhere.

 

[disykat]

In state varies dramatically by state. Our closest state school is over 12K for tuition only per year now (and we don't live close enough so we'd have to add room and board in an expensive city) and I know we're not the most expensive state. It's hard for me to even fathom less than 5K for instate tuition.

 

[disykat]

It may be a little late for some of you, but prepping your children from a very early age will help OODLES in the long run as far as getting scholarships.

Get your kids reading before Kindergarten. It doesn't take that much time. 10-15 minutes a day starting around the age of 3 will have them reading when they're 4.

After they become readers it's easier for them to learn other things.

If you give them tools to learn ahead of their grade level (ie skill workbooks, computer programs like Elementary Advantage) they'll do better in all their classes.

If you spend time with them, encouraging learning, seeing and trying new things...it all adds up. You end up raising children that search out knowledge like a sponge.

And something my parents did NOT do for me...prepare your kids for what they're going to run into money wise for college. And basic every day run of the mill chores.

There was a lot of learning on the fly for me, but I think things would have been a bit easier if I didn't spend so much time trying to figure out how to do simple stuff.

Great parenting advice for everyone, however good students don't all get scholarships. My son was a straight A AP student with good stats all around, and got over 2000 on his SATs - but didn't ACE them. He's just your average kid in the top college market. The fact that he's a good musician, debater, held leadership roles, did volunteer work, or whatever, isn't any different than all the other kids that could say the same. Doing those things may get you a turn at student of the month at your own school, but it doesn't put you in the top of all college applicants. Sure, he got scholarship offers that got private and out of state schools down to what in state would cost. That still left the 20K+ that instate costs if you don't live close enough to commute from home. (Since our EFC was right around that, we didn't have "Need" to be met.)

It's fun to talk about all the scholarships your kid will get. I've had people for the last 6 years telling me a kid like mine would have the options spread out like diamonds in front of him. He had people telling HIM that as well. It's not true and people need to understand scholarships are getting harder to obtain.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Grad school: I don't feel an obligation because a graduate degree isn't a necessity.

Teaching requires a minimum of a masters in many places nowadays. But, yeah I get your point overall

Plus, a masters is quite obtainable while working full-time, so if it's something desirable, it can be achieved without incurring significant debt.

 

[FINFAN]

You're a parent - that comes with the territory

Yeah, I guess it does, lol.

Don't worry {{hugs}}. We all know that you wish you could have done more and you *should* be proud of what ever you can contribute. I know that your kids appreciate it. As for the DIS, we'll cut you a break as long as you're not celebrating "Marriage 3.0" with an around-the-world trip instead of helping your kids start life without a boatload of debt .

Thanks Robin...celebrating Marriage 3.0? Not likely, no trip tickers on my name....unless there are "stay-cation" ones

Two years is a wonderful gift! One thing I'd suggest, because I have seen other people run into this problem, is that you have your kids take out the maximum stafford loans the first two years, and then use that $ to contribute towards the last two years. There's a good chance your kids will qualify for interest free loans. I've seen a number of parents who expect their kids to pay for the last year or last two years, but the kids don't have the credit history or employment history to borrow that money without high interest rates. Plus, they start accruing interest from day 1. It's much better to have your kids borrow $5,500 a year, for example, than to try and borrow $11,000 during each of the last two years.

DD did exactly this...she graduated in May. Yes, she has a ton of debt,(at least according to the National average) however, her current yearly salary is 40% higher than the total debt she owes. Not ideal, but certainly doable. She knew when accepting at her college she would have debt. She chose to for-go a wedding if she ever chooses to marry (been w/the same guy alomost 6 years, neither is a fan of marriage or kids as of yet)does not have a car (lives in San Francisco, right now, does not need one) what I am getting at is she knew what type of lifestyle she would be leading since it would include loan payments. To her, it was/is worth the cost of that education which has allowed her to be marketable, choosy and ultimately loving her career/projects. That peace of mind has more value to her than any material things she may purchase. She has a 401K started and does not plan on children so she chose to spend on her own education instead of a future childs. I could not be more proud. When I kick myself for not being able to help her more, I feel better knowing that I didn't alter her path by advising her not to follow her dreams/heart..since it was going to have a large price tag attached. She thanks us all the time for helping where we could and for teaching her to be frugal in all other ways so that she could "splurge" on her future.
Now, will my DS have a similar outcome? Remains to be seen...but for now, even kids who have financial debt, it doesn't mean they are not living a quality life or a life they will never recover or feel worthy in...there simply is no cookie cutter plan. That being said, however, I commend each and every one on here who has managed to have finances up front for college for whoever they are helping

 

[tar heel]

Tuition and fees for North Carolina public universities ranges from a little over $4,000 to about $7,600 for our flagship, UNC-Chapel Hill. The latter is Kiplinger's "best value" year after year because of its cost, quality and the generous need based aid. If your kid doesn't have financial need, there's a good chance he will get nothing in the way of scholarships even though he had to be at the top of his high school class academically to get accepted.

I like disneykat's phrase about the ridiculousness of people thinking scholarships would be "spread out like diamonds" for the top students. My kids also found that not to be the case. The free rides were at schools that, quite frankly, aren't on the level of the ones they chose.

 

[Deb in IA]

Great question re: grad school:
For me, it's because most graduate programs I anticipate my kids would be interested in would be Ph.D. track and would come with stipends and fellowships (especially common in math, science, some of the more obscure liberal arts disciplines). I anticipate them needing substantially less financial support as grad students than they will as undergrads. I could also see an outcome where they work in business for a few years and then return to school part-time for an executive MBA, and in that case, corporate tuition reimbursement would play in.

Two exceptions to the stipend/fellowship/corporate reimbursement thinking: med school is typically solely out of pocket (I would contribute to that) and law school is typically big $$$ (if law as an industry looks anything like it does right now when that future day comes, I'm not financially contributing to law school unless it's Top 10, because the unemployment rates from schools beneath that tier are obscenely high, and law firm associate life stinks, frankly. Ever try to bill 2000 hours in a year? NOT FUN. Not the lifestyle I want to encourage for my kids ... there are better ways to achieve lucrative professional success than law at this point)

Maybe now you're seeing what may be a flaw in my character, depending on your value system. A big goal in my life has been to make money, specifically making career choices more for income potential than personal passion. I do not think you need to passionately love your job. I think liking your job is more than sufficient if it is paying you enough to live very well. I am going to encourage high-income professional tracks for my daughters. It makes life so much better. Of course, not everyone agrees. My nanny (my DH's cousin) is about to take a social work job in Philadelphia where she will never break $40K for a very difficult and emotionally taxing job. That is her vocation. I support her 100%, but I will not encourage that outcome for my girls - if they say they want a career in social service, I am going to encourage psychiatry, public health administration, more lucrative paths.

So why might I have that flaw in my character? And why do I feel so strongly about helping my kids pay for college? Because I DIDN'T have that financial support behind me. I worked 20 HPW at a tanning salon through high school to help pay the rent for my single-parent family after my father went to jail, child support stopped and the house got foreclosed. I would literally go to school 7-3, sports practice 3-5:30, musical rehearsals 5:30-7, tanning salon 7-11, whatever studying I could manage 11-1, sleep, up at 6, lather rinse repeat. My teachers knew what I was doing and kindly turned a blind eye to the fact that I barely handled in homework. I do not think this was a character-building experience. I think the only thing that got me through it was knowing that if I could make it to June of senior year and graduate as valedictorian, going to college for free was going to happen for me.

I was able to go to college because I got a lot of scholarship and financial aid help from a very generous school with a no-loan policy (they covered my full financial need). It was a miracle. It changed my life. A big part of my personal mission is to give my girls that same gift I was given, to come out of school with no loans and be free to explore the world in their 20s. I had the luxury of being able to do that and IT WAS AWESOME.

I remember when you were living that life, Dana. Yours is certainly an amazing story - and NOT a hoax!

What I find disturbing is the glee and delight that the OP shows in declaring they will not support their children in college. To me, traveling 6 weeks a year while your children are not just struggling but living through hell is not a good way to "build character".

It's a good way to make your kids hate you.

I am all for hard work. But, as a parent, if I can make it easier for my kids to work hard in school, that is my responsibility, whether that is emotional or financial support or advice and career counseling. After all, there is biologically nothing magical about turning 18. In fact, science shows that the brain is not fully mature until age 25, and functionally, most young adults do not develop higher level judgment, empathy, reasoning, and logic until around then. Yes, I know, there are exceptions, and many will probably have stories about how they left home at 16 and was fully capable of taking care of themselves. And if you were one of them, I applaud you. But you are the exception, not the rule.

"Building character" does not require going through hell. Character is built in the way you treat others, in the values by which you were raised, by your role models and by your priorities in life. For many, that priority includes giving their children what they need to succeed, including financial support, so that they can do well in school, and be sucessful in life.

I don't see the OP's argument that helping to pay for college will somehow make their children dependent on them for a hand-out all their lives. My parents supported me and paid for 100% of my undergraduate and medical school expenses. When I was a resident and earning a salary, their financial support ended. I see doing the same for our children. As long as they are in a situation where they cannot earn a full time wage, we will help them. And as I posted yesterday, the costs of post-graduate education are staggering, while the opportunities for grants and scholarships are becoming harder and harder to get.

Topics like this that deal with parenting always get lots of responses. And everyone does what they feel is best, but I just don't think that helping your children in college will spoil them for life.

 

[bettymae1121]

re:Grad school. I honestly hadn't given it much thought, being how neither DH nor I will ever get an advanced degree ouselves (I'm in school to get an AS now, I may or may not go on to get a BS, but for sure have no plans for an MBA).

But thinking about it since your post, for us I think it will depend on where our finances are at the time DD graduates, what her short/medium/long term career and life goals are, her grades while in undergrad (though if they weren't good we'd have shut off the money spigot before she got her Bachelors anyway). If getting a Masters seems like something that makes sense for her goals AND we have the money to help out, we will. If getting a Masters doesn't makes sense OR we don't have the resources, she'll be on her own.

Our goal is to pay for her four year degree plus living costs (dorm + food plan) and have her pay for books, outfiting dorm, pizza money, car expenses, etc. If we save our pennies carefully we should be able to accomplish that. Beyond that I just don't know if we'll have the money. If college inflation slows down, if she gets scholarships or goes the 2+2 route and saves money that way, there might be enough left over in the college fund to help, and if so, well hell why wouldn't we?

As other posters have stated, getting a four year degree is almost esential if you want to be employable today, and I'd imagine 20+ years from now that will still be the case. I think parents should do whatever their resources allow them to do to support their child(ren) going to college. If resources allow a full ride and the kids are good students, they should do that. Can only afford to pay for half? Hey that's good too, half is better than none afterall.

Even if a parent doesn't have a dime they can spare, there are still other ways they can help their child. Let them live at home rent free while they commute. Fill out all financial aid forms timely so if the kid has any chance at aid, they'll be able to apply. Keep them on medical/auto insurance so they have one or two less bills to worry about. Just keeping a supportive attitude can make a huge difference.

"We have ours, go get your own" just sounds so foreign to me.

FTR, the deal my parents had with my brothers and I was they would pay for half. My oldest brother (in the late 80's/early 90's) had to work what amounted to heavy part time hours during school and full time hours during the summer to come up with his haf. The last semester of his senior year, he just didn't have the money. Say what you will about my DB (and I could say plenty) but he's one of the hardest workers I've ever met. He just couldn't raise the money. He told my parents he was going to post-pone his last semester to work and save the rest of the money and go back later to finish. My parents lent him the money and told him to pay them back after graduation, they were affraid he wouldn't go back and finish and they knew how hard he'd worked both in HS and college to pay his share. (I only did 1 year of CC after HS before falling into my current profession and my other brother chose not to go to college at all, though if he had the Army would have paid as he enlisted after HS and was eligable for the GI Bill).

With college costs today, I don't think the average student could even come up with half, even working the way my brother did. So that's why my DH and I plan on paying for DD's schooling in full, or as close to it as we can manage. We won't go into debt ourselves, and our retirement savings comes before the college fund...but we hope DD can come through debt free if at all possible.

 

[PlutoPony]

I like disneykat's phrase about the ridiculousness of people thinking scholarships would be "spread out like diamonds" for the top students. My kids also found that not to be the case.

Yep. Very high grades and test scores guarantee you NOTHING, not college acceptance or $$.

Interesting how much difference there is in tuition at state schools nationwide. We learned early on that in-state PA was similar to the out of state VA rate, so to us PA schools were quite expensive as an example.

 

[robinb]

I have never lost the ability to send and receive private messages. I did not turn it on. I don't understand the term stirring the pot. I am merely responding to posts directed towards me or our philosophy.

Would you "testify" to that?

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

It may be a little late for some of you, but prepping your children from a very early age will help OODLES in the long run as far as getting scholarships.

Get your kids reading before Kindergarten. It doesn't take that much time. 10-15 minutes a day starting around the age of 3 will have them reading when they're 4.

After they become readers it's easier for them to learn other things.

If you give them tools to learn ahead of their grade level (ie skill workbooks, computer programs like Elementary Advantage) they'll do better in all their classes.

If you spend time with them, encouraging learning, seeing and trying new things...it all adds up. You end up raising children that search out knowledge like a sponge.

And something my parents did NOT do for me...prepare your kids for what they're going to run into money wise for college. And basic every day run of the mill chores.

There was a lot of learning on the fly for me, but I think things would have been a bit easier if I didn't spend so much time trying to figure out how to do simple stuff.

I think that you overestimate how much of these things are within your control.

I have a 13 year old son who is wonderful. He's smart, hard working, kind, and wise (NOT a word most people apply to middle schoolers). He's involved in sports, arts, and community service. He's absolutely the kind of kid who "deserves" a chance to attend college and build the career he dreams of, at least in my opinion.

But, he's also a kid who, despite growing up with a teacher mom, great schools, and lots of resources is not going to be a tip top student. We spent lots of time working on reading, reading books, exploring concepts when he was little, but rote memory tasks and phonemic awareness come slowly to him, and with that support he wasn't ready to read until about 6. He doesn't have a learning disability or a special need, but he's also not going to be in the top 10%. He works hard to be where he is, with more B's than A's in honors classes, and test scores that are solid (75th %ile kind of scores) but not outside the average range.

Similarly he's got asthma, bad asthma. It's well controlled with meds, doesn't mess up his daily life, but because of the types of meds and he needs and the frequency with which he needs them he'd be an automatic reject from ROTC, military academy, or simply joining the service for the GI Bill.

Finally, while he's an athlete he does best in sports that put a lot of emphasis on strength and explosive power, instead of speed and sustained energy. He'll never been more than average in soccer or basketball because of stamina, and while he's got a natural talent for the defensive line in soccer, he's not likely to break 6 feet. I don't foresee an athletic scholarship in the future.

We don't qualify incomewise for a program like College of the Ozarks.

While I think my kid is the most perfectly wonderful child ever born, I also think he's a pretty average American kid.

 

[MEK]

In state varies dramatically by state. Our closest state school is over 12K for tuition only per year now and I know we're not the most expensive state. It's hard for me to even fathom less than 5K for instate tuition.

$22K a year for in state at the University of Delaware for an entire year including room & board. And the student's get to see Joe Biden's face scroll through the screen savers in the library!

 

[Janepod]

$22K a year for in state at the University of Delaware for an entire year including room & board. And the student's get to see Joe Biden's face scroll through the screen savers in the library!

$22,500 at UConn for instate -- $40,300 for out of state! No Joe Biden but we do have great basketball.

 

[AndyLL]

Colorado State University and University of Colorado run around 9000-11000 per year for tuition and fees which isn't too bad.

Room & board will run another 12000.

I will attempt to pay most of the college if he says in state. If he goes out of state I will help.

I have a CO based 529 that will hopefully cover about 1/2 of his collage. I don't want to put more in there just in case he doesn't attend in state.

 

[nchulka]

Maybe now you're seeing what may be a flaw in my character, depending on your value system. A big goal in my life has been to make money, specifically making career choices more for income potential than personal passion. I do not think you need to passionately love your job. I think liking your job is more than sufficient if it is paying you enough to live very well. I am going to encourage high-income professional tracks for my daughters. It makes life so much better.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I find this post very sad. I am a SAHM and wouldn't have it any other way. My life and time are of way more value to me than money. I have a DD10 and I have told her that she can do whatever she would like in life but I would be very disappointed if she choose to work instead of raising her children. I've told DS the same about whatever woman he would marry. I've always felt incredibly sad for children raised in daycares or by nannys while mom and dad are out fulfilling their dreams of having more and living better. Years ago, before having kids, I was a nanny. I took care of a 9 and 6 year old. One day the 6 year old said that she wished her mom was home with her everyday. The 9 year old quickly said that if she was they wouldn't have as much "stuff". Already at 9 he valued material possessions over family time I would MUCH rather live in a small house and drive an older car and spend my days leisurely with my children than live in a giant house and drive a fancy car and be so busy with work that I had to hire people to clean my house, make my food, and raise my kids.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

Kansas State is about $15,000 per year in the dorms.

 

[marcyinPA]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I find this post very sad. I am a SAHM and wouldn't have it any other way. My life and time are of way more value to me than money. I have a DD10 and I have told her that she can do whatever she would like in life but I would be very disappointed if she choose to work instead of raising her children. I've told DS the same about whatever woman he would marry. I've always felt incredibly sad for children raised in daycares or by nannys while mom and dad are out fulfilling their dreams of having more and living better. Years ago, before having kids, I was a nanny. I took care of a 9 and 6 year old. One day the 6 year old said that she wished her mom was home with her everyday. The 9 year old quickly said that if she was they wouldn't have as much "stuff". Already at 9 he valued material possessions over family time I would MUCH rather live in a small house and drive an older car and spend my days leisurely with my children than live in a giant house and drive a fancy car and be so busy with work that I had to hire people to clean my house, make my food, and raise my kids.

I have to agree with this. Of course, there ARE people who have to work to make ends meet and utilize daycare because of it- but I know you aren't talking about those people. I get it.

I know people with GOBS of money who are the most miserable people I have ever met. Money DOES NOT buy happiness. You do not need STUFF to make you happy. Some of the happiest people I have ever seen have been the ones without. My kids have seen this first hand from working on mission trips. They are always so surprised at how happy and thankful people are who have NOTHING.

 

[Deb in IA]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I find this post very sad. I am a SAHM and wouldn't have it any other way. My life and time are of way more value to me than money. I have a DD10 and I have told her that she can do whatever she would like in life but I would be very disappointed if she choose to work instead of raising her children. I've told DS the same about whatever woman he would marry. I've always felt incredibly sad for children raised in daycares or by nannys while mom and dad are out fulfilling their dreams of having more and living better. Years ago, before having kids, I was a nanny. I took care of a 9 and 6 year old. One day the 6 year old said that she wished her mom was home with her everyday. The 9 year old quickly said that if she was they wouldn't have as much "stuff". Already at 9 he valued material possessions over family time I would MUCH rather live in a small house and drive an older car and spend my days leisurely with my children than live in a giant house and drive a fancy car and be so busy with work that I had to hire people to clean my house, make my food, and raise my kids.

Why does it have to be "either/or"?

I have seen many, many women (and men) who do BOTH.
And do them equally well.

 

[Pigeon]

Why does it have to be "either/or"?

I have seen many, many women (and men) who do BOTH.
And do them equally well.

Yeah, funny how she told DS how disappointed she'd be if he didn't marry a woman who wanted to stay at home, rather than him stay at home.

I work out of the home and I'm raising my children, just like dh is working out of the home and raising his children.

I would be very disappointed if my dds married a man whose mother tried to tell them they had to be a SAHM.

 

[SLP958]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I find this post very sad. I am a SAHM and wouldn't have it any other way. My life and time are of way more value to me than money. I have a DD10 and I have told her that she can do whatever she would like in life but I would be very disappointed if she choose to work instead of raising her children. I've told DS the same about whatever woman he would marry. I've always felt incredibly sad for children raised in daycares or by nannys while mom and dad are out fulfilling their dreams of having more and living better. Years ago, before having kids, I was a nanny. I took care of a 9 and 6 year old. One day the 6 year old said that she wished her mom was home with her everyday. The 9 year old quickly said that if she was they wouldn't have as much "stuff". Already at 9 he valued material possessions over family time I would MUCH rather live in a small house and drive an older car and spend my days leisurely with my children than live in a giant house and drive a fancy car and be so busy with work that I had to hire people to clean my house, make my food, and raise my kids.

This is by far the stupidest post I have read on this board.

Since when are parents who work not raising their children? My children attend daycare full time and in no way are the daycare providers "raising them."
That is a ridiculous statement.

I will also encourage my children to consider income when making choices for their lives. Life is so much easier when you can support yourself independently.

Our choices for working full time include being able to help our children attend college. I also want my daughter to know she has many choices in life. She can have a career and children.