Is anyone else hugely entertained by the FP+ tier system test?

[AmyB2006]

Originally Posted by robpa View Post
Disney already charges for the ability to park hop and I'm not sure what the markup per ticket is on that. So if they were to offer a express pass for all 4 parks on top of that I shudder to think what they would charge for that.

They already sell it...the VIP tour. $1800 bucks for six hours for ten people.

I stand corrected. You were quoteing robpa, but he was answering my scenario.

 

[daytondisney]

You didn't ask me but I'll take a shot. I don't think offsite will get prebooking privileges, or they will find a way to make the booking windows different so there is still a huge advantage for onsite customers who plan ahead.

Then why do you think they wouldn't just do that with FP now - or in the past? Imagine FP- available to only resort guests.

Doesn't this theory involve alienating all of your offsite guests and some of your onsite guests?

 

[daytondisney]

That would be my opinion. But my opinion on this matter is worth less than this post, and is pure speculation. If they do offer it outside, I would think it would then be tiered... or, they'll roll it out to certain hotels that feed the Disney coffers one way or another like the Swan and Dolphin. It will not be "equality - anyone who buys a ticket whether resort guest or day passer gets the same". (purely my opinion, no inside knowledge)

What's your logic on a free across the board system going to a resort-based, tiered system?

 

[magicbob]

No, Tink is indeed right. I'm planning w several other ppl and know several travel agents, and the general populace is more of the "oh that's neat ok we'll figure that out" than "oh my god the sky is falling i'm going to have to change the way I do things!" The doom and gloom really is only out here and from a select few.

The general populace doesn't know enough to recognize the disaster that's on the horizon. Ignorance is bliss. We "doom and gloom" experts/veterans see the portents because we have an intricate working knowledge of how the sausage is made and can extrapolate likely outcomes.

Yes, it does. Disney is not apologizing for FP+. They are rolling it out. It's not turning around, and KTTW will go away. They are selling this as the huge benefit that it is. They will continue to raise prices and make more money because of it.

They are marketing it as the huge benefit they claim it to be.

Fortunately for us, Disney is run by some very good minds who embrace change and growth and not by the "it ain't broke so don't improve it" grumps.

More like "it ain't broke, so please don't break it." Change does not equal growth if you make things worse.

Serious questions:

Was anyone here a loyal guest when Disney went to the FP system?

I know how I feel at the end of a long day now, standing in line and watching FPers gleefully sauntering ahead, and feeling a just tinge of jealousy (yes, I do commando planning and FPing) at that moment. What was it like when FP first came around and you saw the FPers walking right past?

Why weren't you one of the ones sauntering by with FP in hand?

I don't think this is going to be like ADRs where you have to do this. I could be wrong. Only time will tell. If their intent is to have FP available the day of, then there is no way rides will be "booked up" 60 days in advance.

That is yet to be seen. I have informed you thusly.

 

[AmyB2006]

That is yet to be seen. I have informed you thusly.

It is yet to be seen, but they have stated that is their intent.


Thusly? Really? LOL

 

[magicbob]

Thusly? Really? LOL

Google it.

 

[Robo]

We "doom and gloom" experts/veterans see the portents because we have an intricate working knowledge of how the sausage is made and can extrapolate likely outcomes.

And, as seen up to now, what we have postulated has come to reality.
Those who have seen few problems with FP+ have been at the expense of regular FP.

As FP+ usage continues to grow for ON-SITE guest testing, regular FP has experienced less and less flexibility and availability.

As FP+ usage continues to grow adding in OFF-SITE guests, regular FP and FP+ will experience less and less flexibility and availability, especially for week-of/day-of.

It's not panic, it's math.

I do not fear change.
I do fear "the law of unintended consequences" when arbitrary changes are made.

 

[daytondisney]

Why weren't you one of the ones sauntering by with FP in hand?

I was, at times. But you can't hold FPs for everything. And FP has always been a known quantity on my visits

I was just looking for the experience of those earlier devotees who went from abject fairness to subjective fairness...

 

[mom2rtk]

Right now?

Set alarm clock to 11:55pm day minus 61 of trip

Make coffee

Log onto MDE

Pray The Mine Train is still there

Next step.....when Mine Train is not available, spend the next 13 days toiling over whether to cancel your trip before the 45 day mark.

 

[clsteve]

And, as seen up to now, what we have postulated has come to reality.

It's not panic, it's math.

I do not fear change.
I do fear "the law of unintended consequences" when arbitrary changes are made.

And the numbers are finite, ride capacity is finite. You can increase the percentage of reserved FP+ for a given attraction, but only to the detriment for same day FP+ availability and stand-by.

Same for onsite FP+ to off-site, etc.

Which is why the numbers extracted from the tiered testing leading up to and through the holidays will be very interesting.

 

[clsteve]

Next step.....when Mine Train is not available, spend the next 13 days toiling over whether to cancel your trip before the 45 day mark.

Too true- I was going to toss in a laughing smiley face but you hit painfully too close to home since I just had to make that decision myself last week......

 

[daytondisney]

And the numbers are finite, ride capacity is finite. You can increase the percentage of reserved FP+ for a given attraction, but only to the detriment for same day FP+ availability and stand-by.

Same for onsite FP+ to off-site, etc.

Which is why the numbers extracted from the tiered testing leading up to and through the holidays will be very interesting.

Sure they're finite. In the new calculation, guests are limited to 3 FPs per day. That will represent an overall reduction in the number of FPs within a certain class of guests, an increase in another.

But wait times are also affected by the number of people holding FPs actually using them. Disney doesn't calculate wait times now by FPs issued, but by actually picking a standby guest and measuring his actual time from A to B.

I suspect that the follow-through rate on FP holders who booked them months out will be lower than that of those who got them 2 hours ago.

 

[gwmort]

And, as seen up to now, what we have postulated has come to reality.
Those who have seen few problems with FP+ have been at the expense of regular FP.

As FP+ usage continues to grow for ON-SITE guest testing, regular FP has experienced less and less flexibility and availability.

As FP+ usage continues to grow adding in OFF-SITE guests, regular FP and FP+ will experience less and less flexibility and availability, especially for week-of/day-of.

It's not panic, it's math.

I do not fear change.
I do fear "the law of unintended consequences" when arbitrary changes are made.

I think the current problems with fp- availability are the double (triple/quadruple) dippers. Not only do you have fp- coming out for fp+, but you also have people abusing the system taking way more fp- than they ever used to so they get used up faster.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Then why do you think they wouldn't just do that with FP now - or in the past? Imagine FP- available to only resort guests.

Doesn't this theory involve alienating all of your offsite guests and some of your onsite guests?

I don't think they want to alienate anyone completely. Thats why I think the onsite perk regarding this wil be the booking window only...not number of FPs, not type of FPs...I also dont think there will ever be resort tiers for onsite, with value getting less than mod, etc

 

[ArwenMarie]

Next step.....when Mine Train is not available, spend the next 13 days toiling over whether to cancel your trip before the 45 day mark.

Ugh. Especially if you have flights involved.

 

[mom2rtk]

How does Disney get their beans?

By making smart business decisions. By offering a product people are willing to put down serious money to experience. Yes, they usually are successful at this. But even the biggest stumble occasionally. John Carter anyone?

Wouldn't Disney getting beans be conditioned on spreading out crowds the way the crowd wants to be spread out?

Yes, and up to now Disney has gathered an awful lot of beans by letting the crowds decide where they wanted to be spread. That's going to change a bit with this new system.

Do you contend that people do in fact want to ride the second tier rides as much as the headliners? They why haven't they been riding them as heavily up to this point? Disney is "nudging" them where Disney wants them to be.

Like they did when they instituted FP in the first place?

I suppose you could say the introduction of FP took something away from the masses by increasing standby wait lines. But it gave back TO EVERYONE the right to use FP themselves.

This new system had to TAKE AWAY fastpass privileges before they could start doling them out (albeit in a different fashion).

And I'm guessing crowds have grown since original FP was introduced, making it a different matter entirely.

Ain't that the whole point of going into the amusement park business in the first place?

Sure it is. But they are making a mistake if they think repeat visitors aren't going to see this as ride rationing. They can wrap it up in a pretty pink wristband, but it's still ride rationing. Some will think it's ok. Some won't. I know I don't. Apparently a couple others don't either. It remains to be seen if enough of us feel this way to matter.

In deciding whose estimation might be most accurate, best to go with the one who has millions of dollars riding on it.

It depends. Millions to a multi-billion dollar company might be similar to thousands to an average joe saving for a Disney trip.

Big companies are not infallible. They sometimes make really big mistakes.

You're probably not going to like the answer, but Disney already knows.

Then it will be what it is. I don't argue with Disney's right to change their business model to suit their profit goals. I just contend that they miscalculated.

 

[nugov2]

Then it will be what it is. I don't argue with Disney's right to change their business model to suit their profit goals. I just contend that they miscalculated.

I have to agree. We stayed off site for a week and spent thousands on just the WDW portion of our trip. Tons of TS and out of pocket activities for the kids on site, parks and tons more. We spent one day at Uni/IOA. I just don't get how excluding a big chunk of their visitors is profitable. Like I said I am not saying I wouldn't go back, but I certainly will not dump the kind of money into a park that doesn't value me. We will hit the MK and be on our way to other things. I know my family can have a magical time anywhere. I don't get the idea that making this perk exclusive to on site(don't care if you can book FP at the park we have pretty much seen how valuable that will be). You are either forcing people to spend money they would spend at the park now on accommodations and essentially breaking even, but leaving your guest feeling ripped off or excluding a group who won't stay on site b/c your accommodations don't meet their standards. Just seems like an odd move, but only time will tell if people will conform or if WDW will have to change(if they do intend to exclude off site from really having full access to some degree).

 

[Schmeck]

GAC is the old system for people with invisible disabilities that functioned basically like an unlimited FP. Had a lot of abuse as well according to many reports, was very easy to get.

DAS is the new system where you can only book one ride at a time before you can get the next one. They take a certain amount of time off of the current wait time and give you a return time on a card. So people who have medical issues don't have to wait in the line, but they have to wait longer than they did under the GAC. It also involves getting your picture taken for the card, unlike the GAC.

Also, with the DAS, people are reporting that they are getting some FP-like passes to use on any ride they want. When this becomes more well known, there will be more of a clamor for the DAS, people will find out exactly what to say to get one, and it will be the GAC abuse all over again.

 

[Sydnerella]

I think the current problems with fp- availability are the double (triple/quadruple) dippers. Not only do you have fp- coming out for fp+, but you also have people abusing the system taking way more fp- than they ever used to so they get used up faster.

? The overall total available is still the same. It is math folks - and Disney is tweaking the math I presume on some days.

The fact that a percentage of FPs are spoken for before the day-of is why there is limited availability of regular FPs day-of. Not to mention how much Disney is playing with the numbers of total FP inventory available per day during the test.

And lastly, please stop with this one - there is no such thing as DD being an "abuse of the system" during this test. None of us swore in blood not to gather day of FPs to be a part of the test. In fact CMs TOLD US TO USE KTTW CARDS for that very purpose. Three per day is half most DISers and my normal AVERAGE FP use. And due to the limited FP available day of in the park - we gathered/used 5 or less total FP/FP+ per day in October. It just was not possible to get a ton of FPs day-of. Please let this go.

 

[clsteve]

Sure they're finite. In the new calculation, guests are limited to 3 FPs per day. That will represent an overall reduction in the number of FPs within a certain class of guests, an increase in another.

But wait times are also affected by the number of people holding FPs actually using them. Disney doesn't calculate wait times now by FPs issued, but by actually picking a standby guest and measuring his actual time from A to B.

I suspect that the follow-through rate on FP holders who booked them months out will be lower than that of those who got them 2 hours ago.

I think you miss-interpreted what I was trying to say (or I didn't word it right).

Since FP+ is a dynamic system (you can reserve ahead of time, make changes daily, use a smart device in park and they have to dynamically update all of this, real-time) and FP- is static (i.e. FP- return times are incremented by # of pulls/frequency) and both systems are now integrated to some extent, the data during the tiered timeframe and over a peak period is going to be very informative.

For example:
How quickly do the FP- times increment and when do they run out?

Did they reserve any day of Soarin' and TT times for smart devices and kiosks reservations during this peak time testing?

What is available day of, in the park, during a peak time on a smart device or at a kiosk?

Do you dare change anything day-of in the Park?

What's the backup at the kiosk and how long does it take?

Is the tiered approach increasing FP+ usage for lesser attractions like Captain EO and Figment?

I hope this will help give us a better feel for where things might be going, at least in the near future, with so little timeframe info flowing from Disney.