IRS warns churches against campaigning

[JennyMominRI]

My DD initially showed some interest in it, but as we talked about it, it seemed more like she wanted to press the issue on an equality basis, rather than on the basis of really wanting to serve on the altar, if that makes sense. If she really felt that she wanted to do it for spiritual reasons, I would be trying to "work the priests" (so to speak), but just to make a point? Nah, not worth it.

DS, on the other hand, loves it. He's very reverent, very sincere, very totally opposite how he is any other time.

I don't think I had a clue about the equality issues at the time,although don't think my reasons for doing it were likely highly spiritual ones either..I know the classes before became one involved getting out of school early for a couple of months

 

[TheDoctor]

I read the sermon from the Padadena church. The sermon was actually carefully written and did not cross the line. In fact it was noted that the IRS only wants to enforce this doctrine against liberals.

It is interesting that only liberal churches are called on this issue while it is okay for certain Catholic bishops to threathen to excommunicate Senator Kerry due to their political views.

 

[NewJersey]

Of course, you've got me. I don't recall exactly all the Catholic-related stuff you've posted.

But either you are a big, fat liar and slandering the church (which I seriously doubt) or you've had extraordinarily odd experiences with Catholics.

This "Vote for Bush" thing takes the cake, though. Catholics are pretty liberal - except for that abortion issue. And there isn't any rule about voting and going to hell.

I'm surprised that nobody in the church demanded to know why they were doing that or report them.

One of the last times I remember going to church was when, during the 2000 election, my priest read a letter from the Bishop telling its church members to vote for Bush, since he will lead this country down the "righteous" path.

 

[disneyfan67]

My church is a special one and the IRS or any goverment agency has no say in what political candidate my church decides to endorse. My church has been voting conservative for quite awhile now and I see no change in the near future. The father of my parish has been with me since I was a little boy and he hasn't changed one bit, bless his heart.


The name of my church is: The Church of Saint Mattress with Father Pillow.

It's quite the quirky, little independant church and I'm comfortable with it.

 

[Quinn222]

My mothers Catholc Church made it quite clear to her that her immortal soul would be in danger if She voted for Kerry... My Mother, a lfelong democrat voted for Bush... I don't know the context however of just just how this was made clear

I wonder why, given that Kerry is far more pro-life the Bush. I never have figured out why anyone who considers themselves pro-life voted for Bush. How many death warrants has that man signed???
Glad the IRS is stepping in.

 

[BuckNaked]

It is interesting that only liberal churches are called on this issue while it is okay for certain Catholic bishops to threathen to excommunicate Senator Kerry due to their political views.

The excommunication threats against Senator Kerry are not due to "political views", they are due to his stand on abortion, which some priests see as being in direct violation of Church teachings. And while I'm on the fence about whether or not support for abortion rights is indeed an excommunicable offense, I certainly believe that religous organizations of any kind should have the right to boot out anyone that they believe is going against their teachings.

I never have figured out why anyone who considers themselves pro-life voted for Bush. How many death warrants has that man signed???

When it comes to Catholic teachings, the prohibition against the death penalty is not as absolute as that against abortion. In the Baptist church, which I grew up in, the two are seen as completely different, i.e., innocent life v. non-innocent life.

 

[eeyoreiscool]

Does that mean that the black churches will have to stop holding their televized speeches on how government is wrong and that we need to vote for a certain person (usually the Democrat candidate) if they want to have any freedoms. Or is this just going to be held to the Catholic church and a few of the larger white churches that might be able to help bet a candidate elected.

 

[BuckNaked]

Does that mean that the black churches will have to stop holding their televized speeches on how government is wrong and that we need to vote for a certain person (usually the Democrat candidate) if they want to have any freedoms. Or is this just going to be held to the Catholic church and a few of the larger white churches that might be able to help bet a candidate elected.

I'm sure it will be applied across the board, or at least I hope so.

As I understand it though, the rules are very intricate. For example, I believe that a minister can come out for a candidate (not from the pulpit) on his own ("I personally support X") without the church suffering repercussions from the IRS.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Does that mean that the black churches will have to stop holding their televized speeches on how government is wrong and that we need to vote for a certain person (usually the Democrat candidate) if they want to have any freedoms. Or is this just going to be held to the Catholic church and a few of the larger white churches that might be able to help bet a candidate elected.

Why would this even be in question? It should, and will, be held across the board at every church.

 

[golfgal]

I know our old church had many articles in the bulletin and sermons about voting for Bush because of his abortion stance. The school pushed Bush pretty heavily to the point I had to say something to them since my kids were being turned into fanatical Bush supporters. Basically I told the principal that it was fine with me that they explain the whole abortion issue to my then 3rd graders who didn't even know what sex was at the time but from a responsible voting aspect, abortion rights should not be the TOP of anyone's list of reasons to elect a PRESIDENT seeing as the president has NO power to actually change that law. Since abortion is a constitutional amendment 2/3's of the nation would have to override that after congressional vote and your energy would be better spent worrying about who your congresspeople are in relation to the abortion issue vs the President. Who knows if Kerry/Gore/any Democrat would have done a better job then Bush but Bush ISN'T doing a good job and all you are worried about is his stance on abortion. Since we moved we won't be around to hear who they push in the next election or if they push someone this time around because of this new IRS info.

 

[noodleknitter]

I think it is a good thing. If a church is actively campaigning, I believe they should be treated like any other campaign group. It seems to me recently that they fined a handful for the last campaign.

 

[musclecar_72]

Why would this even be in question? It should, and will, be held across the board at every church.

Give me a break, for how many years have democratic candidates campaigned in black churches and blatantly asked for votes from the pulpit. I saw Kerry in a few the last election.

 

[Charade]

Hmm... I guess that should stop the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson from being political hacks.

 

[NewJersey]

Churches on both sides of the aisle do it, and it's unacceptable. Why do we feel the need to have a debate on who does it or who does it more? IRS should deal with all in the same manner, which I think they will.

I'm so fed up with both political parties. Take the 'ethics' reform, for example. We find Democrats charging that Republicans are the crooked party, while Republicans are doing the same. Then we have people on here and on tv debating back and forth which party has been charged more. Is it just me or should there not even be any sort of these ethics problems? Does anyone notice that both parties are screwed up right now and could care about one thing? Re-election. Politicans have long forgotten that they are to there to serve the people, and I think it's time the voters show up to the polls in droves in November and remind them.

(this coming from a Democrat)

 

[momof2inPA]

If was anything like what our Catholic church did, it was through a pamphlet. No candidates were named, and no political parties were singled out. However, it went something like this (paraphrased, of course)...

Someone passed out those pamphlets during Church one day, and the next week our priest yelled at them right during Mass. He didn't identify the person by name, but she got up with her two kids and walked out, so we all knew who it was. He said that no one should use our services for political campaigning, not even the parking lot.

Now during the presidential campaigns, he did stress the importance of a lot of the issues, especially the war issue, as the Pope had stessed his disapproval of the War in Iraq.

 

[cardaway]

Churches on both sides of the aisle do it, and it's unacceptable. Why do we feel the need to have a debate on who does it or who does it more? IRS should deal with all in the same manner, which I think they will.

Agreed. One of the many things both sides do but still point fingers at the other side. Hopefully the IRS will just treat everybody the same here and put a stop to this practice.

 

[Crankyshank]

The RCC is also very against gay marriage. I would never call them liberal except in that they are big into taking care of the less fortunate.

One of my priests has made some pointed comments during the Homily. He's very careful to not tell people who to vote for or to come out and threaten people with fire and brimstone but his intent is quite clear.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I read the sermon from the Padadena church. The sermon was actually carefully written and did not cross the line. In fact it was noted that the IRS only wants to enforce this doctrine against liberals.

It is interesting that only liberal churches are called on this issue while it is okay for certain Catholic bishops to threathen to excommunicate Senator Kerry due to their political views.

While I don't know what that is about entirely...

They would be excommunicating a parishioner whose work for causes he supports---is contrary to doctrine.

 

[BuckNaked]

They would be excommunicating a parishioner whose work for causes he supports---is contrary to doctrine.

It wouldn't be contrary to doctrine if the cause the parishioner is working for is against Church doctrine.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

One of the last times I remember going to church was when, during the 2000 election, my priest read a letter from the Bishop telling its church members to vote for Bush, since he will lead this country down the "righteous" path.

Our church does something nice...actually it is our diocese.
They get a list of all the candidates for whatever. They make a valiant attempt at contact each candidate with a list of questions. The candidate can choose to answer or not.

At publication time--the list of candidates, questions, and their responses or lack of response is noted. There is no endorsement. But parishioners then have a list of questions that were important to the diocese and communities and the responses so that they can vote their conscious. Each candidate was given equal opportunity to respond. It is a shame that more don't take the time to respond.

B/c it does make them look silly that "we" weren't important enough for them to courtesly respond.